Elementary School Shooting

[Hockey Guy]

20 children are dead which is what this thread is about & they haven't been mentioned in about 8 pages. Just thought I'd break the streak.

RIP.

[anonamoose]

The suspected gunman – who was either killed or took his own life – was the father of one of the students, according to CBS News. Because the rampage occurred this morning, there are still very few details about the gunman or his motivations.
As we have documented on numerous occasions, many of the mass casualty shootings in the United States have the hallmark of being perpetuated by mind controlled assassins or are attributed to mind controlled patsies.
From neuroscience student James Holmes‘ suspicious military psychiatrist to Jared Loughner‘s fascination with mind control – mirroring that of Mark David Chapman, John Hinckley, as well as Columbine killers Harris and Klebold – the narrative on recent mass shootings share unmistakable similarities.
Moreover, like the Colorado shooting, there are reports surfacing that there was a second shooter at the school in Connecticut, a detail that will, if confirmed, dispel the current report that the shooter was a father of a student and possibly engaged in some sort of violent vendetta or suffering from psychosis. The latter will feed into the latest government gun-grabbing scheme — to deny firearms to people who are suffering from mental illness and PTSD.
Infowars.com will watch this story and report to our readers any crucial details either ignored or glossed over by the corporate media.

This is all you 4D. I've seen the light. Stop the NWO and stop the Illuminati!

amidoinitrite?

[BCR]

In the past it's been suggested here by Druff and others, that non-Americans shouldn't comment on matters American.

That is arrant nonsense, especially when you see how debate between Americans so often degenerates into extremes of uber-liberal vs uber-conservative.

So, from an outsider's perspective:

As the cliche goes, the problem is not with guns, it is with the people who have and use guns, and the culture within which they reside.

Someone suggested earlier that such atrocities don't happen in places with tight gun controls and/or fewer guns.

That isn't true.

Think Anders Breivik in Norway, Dunblane or Hungerford massacres in the UK for examples of atrocities in countries with tight gun controls. That said, these instances are rarer, and the overall rate of gun violence is lower.

But, if you really want to get an insight into root causes and possible solutions to your problem with guns then try and find a country that like yours has lots of guns in private hands, but without your gun problems, and think about why the difference.

The country you should think about is Switzerland.

Switzerland COMPELS male citizens to hold guns and be trained in their use. In effect the citizenry is a militia, a step beyond your "right to bear arms".

And yet, the rate of gun crime violence in Switzerland is minute, while yours is catastrophically high.

This is simply because of the different cultures. Whilst Switzerland has had violence and tensions in its history, it has generally been unified, and peaceful, with a commitment to neutrality and relative isolationism.

America, by contrast, was formed in essence by armed invasion by people united to some degree by the British "imperialist mindset" but also with significant non-cohesive tendencies due in part to the high proportion of non-conformist religionists, Deist freethinkers etc, who had consciously sought out the New World as a refuge from the hegemony of the old.

The subsequent formative years of transition from a colony and early history as a nation involved slavery/emancipation, armed rebellion, civil war, high levels of banditry and armed gangs, and high levels of immigration from all corners of the globe.

Despite this, you have, from many perspectives built one of the greatest nations/empires in human history, but one whose celebration of individualism and acceptance of inequalities cast a shadow over your undoubted achievements.

Those forces, and others, lead America to have an innate tendency towards violence. That can change, but it will take a long time. It definitely will not be changed by putting an armed guard in every classroom, arming every citizen, or building and filling more and more prisons. You don't cure an alcoholic by handing him a case of whisky.

It could be achieved, gradually, with a steady disarmament and pacification, by a cultural shift, and one which resolves the never yet resolved contradiction between being the UNITED States of America, and being the United STATES of America.

Achieve that and you will again be revered by the rest of the world as you were when you put the first man on the moon, and seen as a true leading society, one that leads through authority, not through firepower.

p.s. Flame away, just don't shoot.

This is really well written and I agree with your observations as to the cause of why we are what we are for the most part. We're a country founded of malcontents and outside the box thinkers. That fact accounts for tremendous achievement, but also shit like this.

That said, it will never happen. I'm left of center here, yet I wouldn't ever give up my guns for the simple reason that it's a country full of gutter rats that are breeding. Our government will take a year to refund Full Tilt money, let alone round up the 90 guns for every 100 people that exist in the US. There are so many people that live off the grid in the US, and most come heavily from the populations that cause the most every day gun violence. Even if there was the political will to remove guns, which there will never be, it simply isn't happening logistically. Guns are so ingrained into our culture. I was randomly searching on facebook for a friend of mine with a common black name, and while I scrolled trying to find him, I was laughing to myself that 7/10 profiles of black kids were pictures of them holding guns. Any time I look at a black friend's kid's site, it will be pics of him and 8 buddies all aiming their gun at the camera. And any friend of mine is productive, yet most of their kids are still indoctrinated into that life No one is giving any guns back here in the next millennium. I carry a gun any time I go 5 miles towards the city, because it would be silly for me personally not to. It's that fucked up in a lot of places. If we could go back again, sure, removing them would be ideal, but it's too far gone to even consider.

This mother should be prosecuted in a sane world if she knew her son was sick and she knew he had access to weapons. I have a female friend who struggles with addiction and depression. If she visits, I lock any guns up because it's simply common sense that she could do harm to herself in the wrong state of mind and I don't want that shit on me. You can have people committed for 72 hours in the US, and if you make shit up because you're angry at a ex-boyfriend or whatever, it can legally come back on you. There needs to be a similar mechanism for guns in this country. Every story like this comes down to some mentally ill fucker with a gun whose state of mind was already concerning a number of people. You should be able to call up authorities and request any weapons are removed pending an evaluation. It wouldn't prevent the every day gun insanity, but it would stop an occasional case of this shit. In the big picture though, it's the Wild West and will remain so here.

[Anal_Hershiser]

LOL. So now it's about making sure everyone pays their SHARE? Yeah, you clearly care about the mentally ill. "I'm not gonna help, unless THAT GUY OVER THERE helps too." You're a true humanitarian Barry. My charitable contributions are irrelevant since I am not the one crying for more government services. Send the government some of your money. Nothing is stopping you. Except for the fact that you are full of shit. It's easy to vote for higher taxes when you know they won't be implemented. That way, you can say on internet forums, "I always vote for the guy who wants to raise taxes", yet you won't send any of your own money to fund what those taxes would have paid for.

Why aren't you signing up for the military since you believe so much in our gun rights? Save the world and US with your service ankle biter. It is so easy to call for your gun rights while you do nothing to earn them.

I don't have to earn them, I never did. Being a citizen born in America, I already have my gun rights. Here's a tip. Go to the nearest library(the one with all the book). Find a copy of the constitution. While you're reading, focus on the second amendment.

[Anal_Hershiser]

The Chinese government's only interest anymore is bettering the lives of its own people.

HAHA, that's some 4PoeSteaks line right there. Hilarious.

[TheXFactor]

20 children are dead which is what this thread is about & they haven't been mentioned in about 8 pages. Just thought I'd break the streak.

RIP.

According to Fox News and Mike Huckabee, this shooting happened because we "removed God from our schools."

If the teachers had been armed they obviously would have stopped the shooter.

Here's a picture of your average PFA poster...

[BCR]

No offense to the people calling for extreme gun control because of issues like this, I know your heart is in the right place, but IMO you are being completely unrealistic. The banishment of guns in the USA is an impossibility. It will never happen. Never. I agree we need stricter gun control laws. A scumbag like that asshole in Colorado should have never been able to obtain the enormous amount of weapons and ammunition to pull off that shit. There is no doubt about that, and that is inexcusable and needs to change, but to call for an all out ban on guns is insane. It would never work and only bring about more chaos.

So, instead of arguing over a mans right to bare arms, I think we should focus more on the social aspect of these mass shootings. Why has it become so much more common now than it was, let's say 30 years ago? Sure you had Charles Whitman in 1966, but aside from that this was never something you would see happening. We have always had guns, yet this type of crime was never really an issue until Columbine. Why is that?

I can understand those who don't live here not understanding exactly what it's like here with guns, but anyone living in the US thinking we can eliminate guns is dealing in theoretical fantasy. It's the type of shit some schoolgirl argues in a paper for government class, because it's fucking impossible in the real world.

[anonamoose]

The Chinese government's only interest anymore is bettering the lives of its own people.

HAHA, that's some 4PoeSteaks line right there. Hilarious.

Just stay locked in your house away from everything in the world, and continue to remain ignorant.

[Anal_Hershiser]

HAHA, that's some 4PoeSteaks line right there. Hilarious.

Just stay locked in your house away from everything in the world, and continue to remain ignorant.

LOL @ saying all the Chinese government wants to do is help its people. If the topic of which country is most dedicated to helping its citizens came up, I'm sure China would be on that list. At about 45


Ignorant Fool

[anonamoose]

Just stay locked in your house away from everything in the world, and continue to remain ignorant.

LOL @ saying all the Chinese government wants to do is help its people. If the topic of which country is most dedicated to helping its citizens, I'm sure China would be on that list. At about 45


Ignorant Fool

Yup, you understand China perfectly. You're an expert. I bow to your knowledge. However, I think I'm going to keep on living here with all these construction projects such as alternative forms of energy, hospitals, more and more apartments, roadways, factories to create new exports, factories to create foreign goods and distribute them amongst the people of China, cheap healthcare (25 bucks for 9 stitches and all the antibiotics needed), massively increasing new jobs, etc (none of which are funded by the government of course).

Oh I also forgot to mention the shrinking national debt. Which of course was paid off by the people and not the government's ability to sell.

[Anal_Hershiser]

However, I think I'm going to keep on living here.....

Score! One less pussy here in the US. I fully support your decision to never come back here. You will not be missed.

[anonamoose]

However, I think I'm going to keep on living here.....

Score! One less pussy here in the US. I fully support your decision to never come back here. You will not be missed.

Yes, I'm a pussy because I do not want to sit around a bunch of psycho gun loving idiots that kill each other.

You know last time I came home I put up a status on Facebook that said coming home in a week. 40 people liked it and then in the comments I wrote "where I'm more likely to be shot at, murdered, or robbed." 3 hours later there was a huge shooting 2 blocks away from where I lived, and I live in the good part of the city. Guess who it was? It was a gun toting idiot that bought a gun for "protection" and ended up losing his mind and holding up hospital.

Number of times I've had a gun pointed at me in the US: 4
Number of times I've had a gun pointed at me anywhere else: 0

I have a feeling one of those scores are going to stay the same throughout my life.

[Walter Sobchak]

We've been cutting metal health care in this country for 30 years. People dismiss gun control because "you can't stop crazy people from getting guns". What if we could help most of those crazy people before they started shooting up public places.

Giving everyone health care, including access to therapists and psychologists, will cost quite a few dollars. Far less than the Iraq war, of course, but a significant amount. But every time a bunch of people get shot, we cry "we HAVE to do something, to make sure this never happens again" and then we don't do shit. Maybe it's time to do something serious and concrete that addresses the problem.

If you feel so strongly about this, what is stopping you from writing a check to the Federal government so they can provide more mental health care to these people. Or why not write a check to your local mental health care facility?

LMAO, so an individual is supposed to solve huge social problems with his own money? Even Bill Gates doesn't have enough. Social problems require social solutions.

Let's apply your logic elsewhere. Let's cut the military budget to zero. If you want the Pentagon to have any of the new Joint Strike Fighters they're about to drop over $1 trillion on, give it yourself. Or find a million people to give $1 million each.

[Walter Sobchak]

They also happen to have a much more stable and healthy financial system because they know how to regulate it, more abundant natural resources, a happier and healthier population, higher educational attainment, better measures on every socioeconomic indicator, better international relations, etc etc, but yeah keep thinking we live in the garden of eden.

And you don't have to spend fuckall on your military because we have your back. You're welcome.

"You?" I'm American.

They don't need much of a military because nobody wants to kill Canadians.

[Anal_Hershiser]

Let's cut the military budget to zero.

Such a realistic and probable example you used there.

[Walter Sobchak]

Let's cut the military budget to zero.

Such a realistic and probable example you used there.

Why? As you told DirtyB, nothing is stopping you from writing a check to the federal government or directly to Lockheed Martin.

[Anal_Hershiser]

LMAO, so an individual is supposed to solve huge social problems with his own money? Even Bill Gates doesn't have enough. Social problems require social solutions.

He isn't supposed to solve it meathead. It's a symbolic test to see if you truly believe what you spew. If Barry is for a tax that fails, he could still give that money to the government. But he won't, because it's easier for him say, "I voted for everyone who wanted to raise taxes", all while fully knowing the tax will never be enacted.

[Anal_Hershiser]

Such a realistic and probable example you used there.

Why? As you told DirtyB, nothing is stopping you from writing a check to the federal government or directly to Lockheed Martin.

Because I'm not the one crying that the government doesn't do enough. I think it's more than funded. The whole basis of this argument was Barry saying the government doesn't do enough. If he feels that way, he should help out. If I feel it is properly funded, why would I send in money? Chimps.

[Deal]

And you don't have to spend fuckall on your military because we have your back. You're welcome.

Do you really believe that the US is acting based on friendship when they engage their military? Your 'friends' in Canada supply you with food, oil, trees, etc at a fair price. Do you think if Russia took over Canada they would do the same? Any 'protection' of human rights or democracy by the US that has happened in the last 136 years is in reality a thinly veiled aggressive self interest attack.

[::o]

20 children are dead which is what this thread is about & they haven't been mentioned in about 8 pages. Just thought I'd break the streak.

RIP.

Ahh the old passive aggressive broadside - what else do you expect people to talk about on a message board if not gun control and how often these incidents are happening in America?

Ridiculous comment...