Why I've been deleting threads and posts lately

[Dan Druff]

Also I want to point out that Thomas claims he left PFA because he was outraged about splitthis "doxxing".

The "doxxing" by splitthis consisted of looking up info on a new member which everyone was suspicious of at the time.

Thomas is incredibly anti-doxxing, yet for some reason he advocates Tyde being on the forum, who has repeatedly doxxed me and my family. Totally makes sense. When I brought this hypocrisy to Thomas' attention privately, he claimed he "didn't know Tyde did that", but somehow that doesn't impact how he feels about Tyde being there.

So despite his militant anti-doxxing stance, he has no problem with a big doxxer being on the site, and in fact complained both times when sonatine banned him.

It's all a bunch of bullshit. Double standards, passive-aggression, and hypocrisy all over the place.

My brother's full work info was publicly posted by Marty. My phone number and address was publicly posted by Marty. That's why I went down and took that infamous video of his apartment complex at the time. Thomas knows this and still wants him on the new site, yet he's so outraged that I let a "doxxer" like split stay here, and supposedly quit PFA before of it.

[Dan Druff]

Anyone still on the fence on this one, think about this:

Thomas spammed PFA with the new site in June. He spammed obnoxiously and disrespectfully, instructing people to leave PFA and go to the new site.

I told him this really pissed me off, he understood, he supposedly apologized.

Despite this, he and the other guys had a whole discussion about whether or not they should spam the radio show ad yesterday. Not once in this discussion did they talk about asking me if it was okay to spam again -- they only discussed which one of them should post the spam. According to PLOL, it was mentioned in the discussion that such a post might upset me. So why I wasn't I asked?

Why wouldn't they ask me first, if none of this is malicious?

Come on. You'd have to be a fucking moron not to see what's going on here. But feel free to explain what I'm missing.

[Wiganer]

I’m confused and sure not going to read all those words. Remind me again, is Andy the tranny fucker?

[Dan Druff]

Honestly, the biggest mistake we made was having Thomas post the thread. We actually had a discussion about this. I thought, and everybody else thought, it would be better to have Drexel make the thread. Drexel felt you might take it as disrespectful if he comes back after not posting for years to advertise this show. To me that made sense, since we were honestly just trying to make a thread about the show without antagonizing you. For me to post it wouldn't have made sense because I'm supposed to be a "background character" on the show, and I haven't posted on PLOL in a while. Sonatine could've posted it but then you're just associating it with stockaments and then you're potentially angry with Sonatine and his site. We agreed that it'd make sense for Thomas to make the thread and that he should do it under his SrslySirius account instead of his dupe, so it wouldn't look so trollish. Then after he makes the thread, I would reply to the thread under my PLOL account and Drexel would post under his account and Sonatine would post under his, so we could legitimize it and not have it seem like we're just trolling you or being disrespectful. We thought about waiting until our conference call before posting it but didn't want to wait until Thursday night when the show is on Sunday already. We wanted to give people a little more heads up about the show.

I even asked the group if we thought you would delete the thread if we posted it. Drexel said you wouldn't be that disrespectful towards a project he's a part of and I'm a part of when he's been such a big contributor to this community for so many years. I agreed and felt the same way, and so we told Thomas to make a thread. In retrospect I probably should've just made it, or Drexel, as Thomas couldn't resist needling you with the thread title a little bit. But come on, this is just internet nonsense. Is it really that important to you to have 100% control over every aspect of this community? I honestly don't get it.

Such a long discussion about who should make the post, and how I'd feel about each person doing it, and yet no one thought to ask me first!

Then they chose the person I specifically told not to spam ads here, and that person "needled" me with the thread title, as well.

Not malicious at all.

Not disrespectful at all.

Totally not done because they knew I'd have to either leave it up or explain why I was deleting it.

[thesidedish]

Also I want to point out that Thomas claims he left PFA because he was outraged about splitthis "doxxing".

The "doxxing" by splitthis consisted of looking up info on a new member which everyone was suspicious of at the time.

Thomas is incredibly anti-doxxing, yet for some reason he advocates Tyde being on the forum, who has repeatedly doxxed me and my family. Totally makes sense. When I brought this hypocrisy to Thomas' attention privately, he claimed he "didn't know Tyde did that", but somehow that doesn't impact how he feels about Tyde being there.

So despite his militant anti-doxxing stance, he has no problem with a big doxxer being on the site, and in fact complained both times when sonatine banned him.

It's all a bunch of bullshit. Double standards, passive-aggression, and hypocrisy all over the place.

My brother's full work info was publicly posted by Marty. My phone number and address was publicly posted by Marty. That's why I went down and took that infamous video of his apartment complex at the time. Thomas knows this and still wants him on the new site, yet he's so outraged that I let a "doxxer" like split stay here, and supposedly quit PFA before of it.

TYDE V TODD TRANSCENDS minor characters being doxxed

[SrslySirius]

As gare would say, let's bring it down to a looowww simmer

We spoke at length about the offending posts last month, which I admitted were dickish and apologized for. However, I'm now confused which aspect of the posts upset you so much. Was it

A) The rude tone, implying that PFA sucks, etc.

or

B) Literally just mentioning the new website?

Because it now seems to be B, which doesn't make any sense. After deleting my rude posts you said that you are fine with promoting that website as long as it's respectful. That's why I didn't think there was any issue making a thread yesterday. I even thanked you at the end of that thread for being gracious enough to allow it. This was shortly after Brandon intimated to you that we're all friends here and there was a planned call, and everything seemed cool. Then you destroyed that goodwill by freaking out about our polite thread lol

[thesidedish]

i think tyde should take the day off and grab a bottle of booze

[Dan Druff]

Anyway, let's be real here.

I'm 48 years old and have a family. Poker has been slowly dying each year. Poker forums are rapidly dying each year.

This is all antiquated 2000s shit which we are holding onto because it's familiar. That's also why most of us are old.

I'm not going to fight an endless war over this. If people want to leave and go to the other site, they can. If people want to post on both sites, they can. If people want to stay here and not go to the other site, they can. That's not my choice to make.

If this place becomes a ghost town, so be it. It has lasted over 8 years with consistent activity -- longer than any of the other sites in this community, even if you combine NWP and DD. The radio show has a mostly separate audience, most of whom don't even look at the forum. That will continue regardless. If this Flying Stupidity subforum contracts in activity because some people quit, so be it. I hope that doesn't happen, but if it does, that's just the way it goes.

I hope at the very least everyone can appreciate that I've run this forum mostly to continue the NWP community. I haven't cluttered it with ads, even though I could have. I have been mostly hands-off, and banned/restricted very few. I've allowed people to troll and bash me, provided it didn't get ridiculously obsessive or extreme. Clearly this wasn't a vanity project in any way. I just wanted to see everything continue in the spirit of the previous sites.

I have a few regrets about how some things went down here -- the cmoney thing being a big one -- but nobody's perfect. I have always run this place with good intentions and with the community in mind. I hope you at least believe that.

The choice is yours as to what you wish to do from this point. Less than two years ago, I was in a miserable state with almost zero quality of life, wondering if I would be stuck that way forever. I promised myself that if I somehow got out of it, I wouldn't let the little unimportant things bother me. I did get out of it, and I have reminded myself to keep that promise. Whatever ultimately happens here, I'm going to be at peace with it.

[Dan Druff]

As gare would say, let's bring it down to a looowww simmer

We spoke at length about the offending posts last month, which I admitted were dickish and apologized for. However, I'm now confused which aspect of the posts upset you so much. Was it

A) The rude tone, implying that PFA sucks, etc.

or

B) Literally just mentioning the new website?

Because it now seems to be B, which doesn't make any sense. After deleting my rude posts you said that you are fine with promoting that website as long as it's respectful. That's why I didn't think there was any issue making a thread yesterday. I even thanked you at the end of that thread for being gracious enough to allow it. This was shortly after Brandon intimated to you that we're all friends here and there was a planned call, and everything seemed cool. Then you destroyed that goodwill by freaking out about our polite thread lol

No, actually you destroyed that good will.

I had several private discussions with you where I indicated I was very upset about the spam, and asked you never to do it again. You repeatedly told me you understood that, and apologized.

Then you post spam again without even asking me if that's okay?

You don't see any problem here?

PLOL told a story where you all had a discussion as to who should make the post, and which one of you posting it would make me the least upset. Somehow it didn't come to your mind to ask me first prior to posting?

Come on. I know you're not stupid. There's one and only one reason you chose to post it without asking me, and we all know what it was.

[SrslySirius]

You keep saying "spam". Was it spam when you gave Sonatine your blessing to promote the site in the other thread he started? Maybe there's a misunderstanding here, but I thought the issue you had with my stuff last month was in the tone. Even after deleting it, you said that promoting the other site is completely fine. As long as it's not rude. If you have since reversed that stance, that's very confusing.

We had a discussion about how to post the thread, because we wanted to be as delicate as possible given how panicky/paranoid you've been lately. It was just about making the thread come off as respectful and polite as possible. Nobody expected the reaction that it got.

[Dan Druff]

You keep saying "spam". Was it spam when you gave Sonatine your blessing to promote the site in the other thread he started? Maybe there's a misunderstanding here, but I thought the issue you had with my stuff last month was in the tone. Even after deleting it, you said that promoting the other site is completely fine. As long as it's not rude. If you have since reversed that stance, that's very confusing.

We had a discussion about how to post the thread, because we wanted to be as delicate as possible given how panicky/paranoid you've been lately. It was just about making the thread come off as respectful and polite as possible. Nobody expected the reaction that it got.

So I've been paranoid and panicky, and a discussion was had to regarding who should post it to prevent my panicky paranoia, but somehow it didn't occur to anyone to simply ask me if it was okay to post?

[SrslySirius]

I'm totally fine with Sonatine's decision to start that site, and I don't feel I have the monopoly on running sites from the NWP-spawned community.

I also don't mind respectful promotion of the site, whether by sonatine or users who enjoy it. I also don't mind people linking other sites (including their own) if there's a relevant reason to do so.

[SrslySirius]

So I've been paranoid and panicky

Yes. You think that 4 long-standing members of the community, a few us that even consider you a friend, are actively conspiring against you to destroy your 8th tier poker site and are lying to your face about it.

[Dan Druff]

I'm totally fine with Sonatine's decision to start that site, and I don't feel I have the monopoly on running sites from the NWP-spawned community.

I also don't mind respectful promotion of the site, whether by sonatine or users who enjoy it. I also don't mind people linking other sites (including their own) if there's a relevant reason to do so.

This was posted before it became clear to me that there was an attempt going on to create another PFA over there.

You know this because we've had long private discussions SINCE the above was posted.

So again, you were concerned how I'd take seeing the radio spam post, and carefully chose who should post it, but you didn't simply ask me if I'd be okay with it?

Wouldn't that be the best way to prevent me from taking it the wrong way?

Come on, nobody sane is going to believe that this was done in good faith.

[Dan Druff]

"Hey Todd, I know we've had some issues lately, but hopefully we resolve that on Thursday. We'd like to post a promotion for our upcoming new show. Are you okay with that?"

Wouldn't that be the best way to keep the peace and avoid me taking something the wrong way?

[SrslySirius]

You're the most intellectually stubborn person that I know, Todd. Once you grab hold onto an idea, nothing anyone says will ever make you budge. You can never consider for even a second that you might be wrong about something.

If you want to remain convinced that all four of us have sinister motives, plotting against you in secret, then so be it. Your mind can't be changed. I'm sorry that you feel that way.

[Dan Druff]

To recap, folks, they had a long discussion as to who should make the post in order to make me the least upset, but somehow were shocked that I was upset about it.

And somehow nobody thought to ask me first.

Makes a ton of sense, and there's nothing sneaky or passive-aggressive going on here at all.

Just paranoid Druff worrying people are out to get him again.

[Dan Druff]

You're the most intellectually stubborn person that I know, Todd. Once you grab hold onto an idea, nothing anyone says will ever make you budge. You can never consider for even a second that you might be wrong about something.

If you want to remain convinced that all four of us have sinister motives, then so be it. Your mind can't be changed. I'm sorry that you feel that way.

This has nothing to do with intellectual stubbornness.

Everyone involved in this is intelligent. No matter what happens here, I'm not going to call any of you stupid. Nobody overlooked that it would be best if I were asked in advance.

There is no way it can be logically explained why I wasn't asked about that radio ad. With all the drama going on, you had to know there was a decent chance I didn't want it posted. In fact, PLOL even admitted that in his post.

The only reasonable explanation is that you knew my answer would be no, or at best "Let's wait until Thursday after we talk", and you didn't want that. So you figured the best play was to post it anyway and then leave me with the unpalatable decision to either leave it up or delete it and face the potential backlash/curiosity as a result.

[Dan Druff]

Here's the bottom line.

I foresaw this entire mess back in May. Not so much from you, Thomas. That part kinda threw me a curveball. However, I saw the overall potential problem with a PFA knockoff being started up by a longtime good poster, and the awkward position it would put me in.

Rather than be a draconian asshole about it, I sent sonatine a very polite message back in May, indicating my expectations, and letting him know that I was open to discussion how to respectfully handle it.

He responded by telling me not to worry, that it wasn't going to have anything in common with PFA, and I took him at his word and dropped it. I even made a post myself helping him promote it. That's how supportive I was.

Once you got involved and wanted to turn it into New PFA, you started engaging in all kinds of sneaky and passive-aggressive tactics to blow it up -- all of which would have plausible deniability if I were to cry foul or create a thread like this.

If everyone could have just been honest, this would have gone a lot better.

"Todd, we decided to go a different direction, and our site is going to have a lot of common elements to PFA. No offense, but we just don't agree how you run things, and kinda wanted to do our own thing. Let's talk about the best way for this to happen to where nobody's feathers are ruffled."

That would have been a much more honest and decent way to go about things. I wouldn't have been thrilled to hear this, but I'd at least respect the honesty, and I would have tried to work something out.

Instead it started off immediately hostile with the "leave PFA, come here" spam, and then a lot of more subtle things following it.

Even today, nobody is being totally honest with me. I'm essentially being told that I'm crazy, and that all of this is just paranoia. It's not. Clearly you made that post yesterday with full knowledge I didn't want it here. Clearly your goal is to, at the very least, get PFA's traffic and the community over to the new site. You may not be trying to kill PFA, but you don't seem to care if that's the ultimate result.

I don't even think this is a grand conspiracy to hurt me. I think you made a decision 2 years ago to leave in a huff, and yet miss being part of the community, so you feel your only option is to re-create it elsewhere. And of course, that can't happen unless you find some way to spam or promote the new site here and get everyone moved over. So you see it as simply trying to convey a message to the community to your new project, whereas I have been repeatedly trying to make the point that it's disrespectful to use my site to promote something intended to compete with it. It's especially disrespectful to do after I asked you to stop.

I don't know how many ways I can say this.

[PLOL]

Anyone still on the fence on this one, think about this:

Thomas spammed PFA with the new site in June. He spammed obnoxiously and disrespectfully, instructing people to leave PFA and go to the new site.

I told him this really pissed me off, he understood, he supposedly apologized.

Despite this, he and the other guys had a whole discussion about whether or not they should spam the radio show ad yesterday. Not once in this discussion did they talk about asking me if it was okay to spam again -- they only discussed which one of them should post the spam. According to PLOL, it was mentioned in the discussion that such a post might upset me. So why I wasn't I asked?

Why wouldn't they ask me first, if none of this is malicious?

Come on. You'd have to be a fucking moron not to see what's going on here. But feel free to explain what I'm missing.

Hi Druff, I'm about to go to sleep so I don't have time to break everything apart right now. This seems to be what you're most upset about so I will address it before I hit the hay.

It's true that Thomas spammed the site a month ago. He did it in an obnoxious way, and you told him to stop. That was clearly spam. What happened yesterday was not spam, or at least it's not what I would've even thought of as spam. We just made a thread about the upcoming radio show. I honestly didn't know just posting about a new show would be considered spam. By "don't spam anymore" we all took that to mean, don't obnoxiously make posts about the other site and tell people to go to the other site instead of PFA. That's totally reasonable. I didn't know you meant, don't even talk about the other site or mention projects you're involved in. I honestly would not consider that spam at all, but maybe we have different ideas of spam. It actually was discussed if you'd be ok with it, and the consensus was that you'd be fine with it. Especially since you said it's ok to mention the other site as long as it's not done in an annoying way. I didn't know you had changed your mind about that.

I can't deny that other people are purposefully trying to troll you and get under your skin. I don't like that, but I really can't control that either. I can only speak for myself. But I can say that making the radio thread was not intended to upset you or troll you.

Do you want to know the honest truth about why we didn't simply ask you first before we made a thread? We didn't do that because it's literally impossible to simply ask you something. There has to be a 4 hour discussion about it and you have to block off half a day. Case in point, this whole discussion we're having now. I wanted to have the zoom call with you right away but was told you need 48 hour notice before any internet meetings.

PLOP, that was a lot of words. I'm not going to type as many words back, but I'll give responses to various points you raised.

I definitely can understand not wanting to have to read super long post after super long post and having to respond to all of it. That sort of thing can easily eat up a perfectly good day.

I’m confused and sure not going to read all those words. Remind me again, is Andy the trans woman fucker?

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