and I'm no genius, I ended up paying 9000 for a used Hyundai Elantra that would lose to a school bus off the line when I financed my first car, totaled in an accident that wasn't my fault when I owed 1100 more on it and insurance cut me a check for 1600, so I ended up with 500 dollars and nothing to fucking show for it. i also sprung for the warranty which saved me exactly zero dollars on repairs because it didn't cover anything that actually breaks in cars
Zap : I will agree that buying an off lease vehicle or a pre-owned car with under 20k miles on it could be a good purchase . The thing is look up how many people trade in there car within one year of paying it off. It's a big number . So the best way to put it is if you can afford a $500.00 a month car payment there is zero reason to ever purchase a car unless you plan on keeping it for 8-10 years . Even then does it truly make sense? Upkeep costs are insane these days .
Then in the end you have to sell it or trade it in for 20-30% of your money back which ultimately goes for a down payment on a new car or used car and it all ends up in the finance department.
I'm not saying people are stupid in a sense but most people up until the mid 1990's where taught to never lease a vehicle. To me I ask why wouldn't you?
If I was selling cars and you could purchase a BMW 3 series for $500.00 a month for six years or lease a BMW 5 series for $500.00 a month for four years . You tell me what makes sense?
I couldn't afford either. I know that if you fall in love with a leased car and wanna buy it out they rake you over the coals though.
i don't mean to spam this thread either, but you can easily squeeze 200,000 miles out of a Honda, Toyota, Ford, almost anything but a european car doing nothing but changing oil/brake pads etc. no warranty needed. so I probably would opt to lease if it was a (modern) BMW or Mercedes or another kind of yuppie jewelry car that is very complicated and expensive to maintain
I knew someone would bring up the "lease" thing here.
I find that people who lease cars tend to be arrogant about their choice. They think they are getting over on the car dealerships, and that only suckers and fools are buying cars, where the value immediately depreciates the second you drive the car off the lot. Some are even delusional enough to believe that leasing is +EV or at worst breakeven, and that the profits come at the expense of the idiots who buy cars new.
In reality, leasing and buying are both legitimate options, depending upon your wants, needs, and plans.
Leasing has various downsides:
- No ability to customize the car before or after you get it
- Mileage limit you have to worry about, and often you can't predict how much mileage you will drive in a year
- Liability for any damage. You can't just say, "Oh this is minor, I'll just let this stay", or, "I'll just do a cheapo repair to this damage so it doesn't look terrible"
- No pride in ownership
However, I will concede that leasing is a good choice for the following situations:
- You get tired of new cars quickly, and feel the need to get something new and/or different within a few years
- You can't buy the car outright, and would have to finance a new car purchase
- Your yearly mileage is very predictable
- You aren't very picky when it comes to customizing the car. A standard car with typical options will do just fine.
I will also say that people who buy new cars every 3 years are idiots. Those people should be leasing.
I buy a car every 9 years or so. I always order them exactly to the specification I want. I never buy a model sitting on the lot, unless by coincidence, it has exactly what I want (and nothing I don't want), which is very unlikely to happen.
I buy the car outright with no financing.
I sell the car myself, and Jewishly extract top dollar for it (lol trade-ins or selling to an awful place like CarMax).
I do not feel the need to always jump to the newest, latest, and greatest vehicle. I am usually fine with the car I own for about a decade.
BMWs tend to age well -- or at least the ones I own do. I don't find much of a performance degradation, whereas with cheaper makes, I have seen it where the car's performance is staggeringly worse after several years.
I would find leasing to be a pain in the ass and too much of a burden.
I will say that one legitimate Jewish play is to buy an almost-new car for a nice discount. However, those can be tough to find for cars like BMWs, and again you are restricted when it comes to options. I've never tried to do this, but I wouldn't be 100% against it if the deal were good enough.
I had no problem having upgrades added to my leased Lexus.
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I knew someone would bring up the "lease" thing here.
I find that people who lease cars tend to be arrogant about their choice. They think they are getting over on the car dealerships, and that only suckers and fools are buying cars, where the value immediately depreciates the second you drive the car off the lot. Some are even delusional enough to believe that leasing is +EV or at worst breakeven, and that the profits come at the expense of the idiots who buy cars new.
In reality, leasing and buying are both legitimate options, depending upon your wants, needs, and plans.
Leasing has various downsides:
- No ability to customize the car before or after you get it
- Mileage limit you have to worry about, and often you can't predict how much mileage you will drive in a year
- Liability for any damage. You can't just say, "Oh this is minor, I'll just let this stay", or, "I'll just do a cheapo repair to this damage so it doesn't look terrible"
- No pride in ownership
However, I will concede that leasing is a good choice for the following situations:
- You get tired of new cars quickly, and feel the need to get something new and/or different within a few years
- You can't buy the car outright, and would have to finance a new car purchase
- Your yearly mileage is very predictable
- You aren't very picky when it comes to customizing the car. A standard car with typical options will do just fine.
I will also say that people who buy new cars every 3 years are idiots. Those people should be leasing.
I buy a car every 9 years or so. I always order them exactly to the specification I want. I never buy a model sitting on the lot, unless by coincidence, it has exactly what I want (and nothing I don't want), which is very unlikely to happen.
I buy the car outright with no financing.
I sell the car myself, and Jewishly extract top dollar for it (lol trade-ins or selling to an awful place like CarMax).
I do not feel the need to always jump to the newest, latest, and greatest vehicle. I am usually fine with the car I own for about a decade.
BMWs tend to age well -- or at least the ones I own do. I don't find much of a performance degradation, whereas with cheaper makes, I have seen it where the car's performance is staggeringly worse after several years.
I would find leasing to be a pain in the ass and too much of a burden.
I will say that one legitimate Jewish play is to buy an almost-new car for a nice discount. However, those can be tough to find for cars like BMWs, and again you are restricted when it comes to options. I've never tried to do this, but I wouldn't be 100% against it if the deal were good enough.
Todd: I recently was listening to loop of radio and it just so happens it was an episode where you where talking about buying a car and how much of a pain in the ass it was . You went on to state about how you call a dealer and say what you want and what you will pay and then inform the salesperson that you want the best price over the phone and that you will call other dealers and whomever has the lowest price wins.
Anyways you continued on and on about your car buying savy and even somebody called in who use to be a salesman and tried explaining a few things to you. It was a great part of the show.
I was in the car business for about 13 years . Started as a salesman and ended up with my own lot. I will admit right now with 100% certainty I would have never sold you a car. I wouldn't have wanted your business . The minute you called I would have hung up on you. Why? When I sold cars I wanted repeat business , When I sold a car I wanted you to bring it to me to be serviced. Your not that guy. You are the guy who drives 200 miles to save $300.00 on a car and then services it at your local dealer . Being Jewish myself you sir take it to a whole level beyond even my jewness.
You also stated that you only deal with sales managers instead of salesman . You do realize that by doing that you save the owner money. Yep by dealing directly with a manager you cut out the salesman who gets a commission. Even if you bought the car at cost the salesman would get a mini of $50.00 . Guys like you are the worst customers ever and even as a salesman I would have shown you the door quickly.
Car dealers are part of local communities. Most are family owned . They employee local people and provide a service. You should be ashamed of yourself for being such a Jew.
Sorry but this post makes no sense.I knew someone would bring up the "lease" thing here.
I find that people who lease cars tend to be arrogant about their choice. They think they are getting over on the car dealerships, and that only suckers and fools are buying cars, where the value immediately depreciates the second you drive the car off the lot. Some are even delusional enough to believe that leasing is +EV or at worst breakeven, and that the profits come at the expense of the idiots who buy cars new.
In reality, leasing and buying are both legitimate options, depending upon your wants, needs, and plans.
Leasing has various downsides:
- No ability to customize the car before or after you get it
- Mileage limit you have to worry about, and often you can't predict how much mileage you will drive in a year
- Liability for any damage. You can't just say, "Oh this is minor, I'll just let this stay", or, "I'll just do a cheapo repair to this damage so it doesn't look terrible"
- No pride in ownership
However, I will concede that leasing is a good choice for the following situations:
- You get tired of new cars quickly, and feel the need to get something new and/or different within a few years
- You can't buy the car outright, and would have to finance a new car purchase
- Your yearly mileage is very predictable
- You aren't very picky when it comes to customizing the car. A standard car with typical options will do just fine.
I will also say that people who buy new cars every 3 years are idiots. Those people should be leasing.
I buy a car every 9 years or so. I always order them exactly to the specification I want. I never buy a model sitting on the lot, unless by coincidence, it has exactly what I want (and nothing I don't want), which is very unlikely to happen.
I buy the car outright with no financing.
I sell the car myself, and Jewishly extract top dollar for it (lol trade-ins or selling to an awful place like CarMax).
I do not feel the need to always jump to the newest, latest, and greatest vehicle. I am usually fine with the car I own for about a decade.
BMWs tend to age well -- or at least the ones I own do. I don't find much of a performance degradation, whereas with cheaper makes, I have seen it where the car's performance is staggeringly worse after several years.
I would find leasing to be a pain in the ass and too much of a burden.
I will say that one legitimate Jewish play is to buy an almost-new car for a nice discount. However, those can be tough to find for cars like BMWs, and again you are restricted when it comes to options. I've never tried to do this, but I wouldn't be 100% against it if the deal were good enough.
Todd: I recently was listening to loop of radio and it just so happens it was an episode where you where talking about buying a car and how much of a pain in the ass it was . You went on to state about how you call a dealer and say what you want and what you will pay and then inform the salesperson that you want the best price over the phone and that you will call other dealers and whomever has the lowest price wins.
Anyways you continued on and on about your car buying savy and even somebody called in who use to be a salesman and tried explaining a few things to you. It was a great part of the show.
I was in the car business for about 13 years . Started as a salesman and ended up with my own lot. I will admit right now with 100% certainty I would have never sold you a car. I wouldn't have wanted your business . The minute you called I would have hung up on you. Why? When I sold cars I wanted repeat business , When I sold a car I wanted you to bring it to me to be serviced. Your not that guy. You are the guy who drives 200 miles to save $300.00 on a car and then services it at your local dealer . Being Jewish myself you sir take it to a whole level beyond even my jewness.
You also stated that you only deal with sales managers instead of salesman . You do realize that by doing that you save the owner money. Yep by dealing directly with a manager you cut out the salesman who gets a commission. Even if you bought the car at cost the salesman would get a mini of $50.00 . Guys like you are the worst customers ever and even as a salesman I would have shown you the door quickly.
Car dealers are part of local communities. Most are family owned . They employee local people and provide a service. You should be ashamed of yourself for being such a Jew.
You first say that you wouldn't have sold me a car, as either a salesman or a lot owner.
Then you chide me for going to the sales manager instead of the salesman.
According to your own post, I did the right thing, and you proved my point. I asserted on radio that salesmen are uncooperative and sometimes downright hostile if it appears you won't be making them much commission. So I stated that I go directly to the sales manager, rather than deal with that crap.
Your post basically verifies that what I said was true -- that salesmen would avoid selling me a car at all.
So I'm basically forced to deal with the sales manager for that reason.
You then chided me for screwing the salesman out of commission by going over his head!
Huh??? I had no choice exactly BECAUSE salesmen dismiss me due to the low commission they'll make.
You ended your post by giving me a hard time for denying "local people" from enough making money off me.
Sorry, but that's not how businesses work. I don't go to businesses to give them charity, nor do I expect businesses to give me charity. Car buying is mostly done through a negotiating model, and I will not feel ashamed for negotiating the best price. The profit that the owner makes and the commission the salespeople make are not my problem or concern. Similarly, the dealership should not feel guilty for selling someone an overpriced car and making a huge commission off of them, provided that they do it honestly.
I will admit that I'm not the ideal customer for a dealership, because they don't make a lot of money off of me, an as you said, I often don't service the car in the same location as where I buy it. However, again, I do not live my life concerning myself with how to let others profit off me. If you sell a car with a non-fixed-price model, you need to take the good with the bad -- customers like me AND the customers who stupidly pay whatever you ask.
But these were at your expense, right? And then they end up with the upgrades when you return it!
I like the ability to go into a dealership, say, "These are the exact options I want -- no more, no less", and then they send an order for the car to be built exactly that way.
Given that I drive my typical car for about 9 years, the whole "Your car loses value as soon as you drive it off the lot" thing becomes a lot less relevant.
As I said in my previous post, there are good reasons to lease, and there are good reasons not to lease. Depends upon your preferences and situation.
Sorry but this post makes no sense.
You first say that you wouldn't have sold me a car, as either a salesman or a lot owner.
Then you chide me for going to the sales manager instead of the salesman.
According to your own post, I did the right thing, and you proved my point. I asserted on radio that salesmen are uncooperative and sometimes downright hostile if it appears you won't be making them much commission. So I stated that I go directly to the sales manager, rather than deal with that crap.
Your post basically verifies that what I said was true -- that salesmen would avoid selling me a car at all.
So I'm basically forced to deal with the sales manager for that reason.
You then chided me for screwing the salesman out of commission by going over his head!
Huh??? I had no choice exactly BECAUSE salesmen dismiss me due to the low commission they'll make.
You ended your post by giving me a hard time for denying "local people" from enough making money off me.
Sorry, but that's not how businesses work. I don't go to businesses to give them charity, nor do I expect businesses to give me charity. Car buying is mostly done through a negotiating model, and I will not feel ashamed for negotiating the best price. The profit that the owner makes and the commission the salespeople make are not my problem or concern. Similarly, the dealership should not feel guilty for selling someone an overpriced car and making a huge commission off of them, provided that they do it honestly.
I will admit that I'm not the ideal customer for a dealership, because they don't make a lot of money off of me, an as you said, I often don't service the car in the same location as where I buy it. However, again, I do not live my life concerning myself with how to let others profit off me. If you sell a car with a non-fixed-price model, you need to take the good with the bad -- customers like me AND the customers who stupidly pay whatever you ask.
You missed my point.
The way you go about it is why a salesperson doesn't want to deal with you. It has nothing to do with the commission. You yourself have no other option but to deal with a manager . You use the hostile salesperson as the reason.
Let's look at the average auto salesman day. Work at 8:00 am . Some floors are open some have what's called an up system. Open floor is customer comes on lot first salesman to the customer gets it. Up system is you wait in line for a customer. Most average car salesman work 60 hours a week. When I say average that's exactly what I mean they are making decent money but a horrible hourly wage.
Salesman take a ton of phone calls each day . Most of them consist of customer's such as you . Do you have this ? Can you get that? How much is it? I'll only pay this ? I want blue not green. On and on and on it goes. These salesman are fighting a two front war. One with you the customer and two with there sales manager or owner to produce sales.
Myself I was a complete asshole to customers. There are many ways to explain it but basically I can't sell you a car over the phone. You need to make an appointment to come see me and give me the opportunity to EARN your business. I didn't waste time with non buyer's . If I had the car in stock with the correct options in the color you wanted at the price you would pay you where driving that fucking thing home.
If I didn't have those things then goodbye I have other things to do. People liked my upfront attitude with them . They came to respect it .
One of my best lines was when a customer would say oh I'm just looking. My response instantly would be sir do we really want to start a business relationship lying to each other? What do you mean? Sir nobody comes to a car lot to look . This is not a car show it's a business we sell cars . Nobody likes coming to a car lot to buy cars so if I have the right model for the right price you would buy it today correct? Then I shut up and wait as long as it takes to get an answer. If it's yes we continue if it's no I usually excuse myself and go print out directions to the closest competition and cone out and hand it to said customer. I would say here is the closest store maybe they are willing to let you browse. When you are serious about purchasing please come back and see me cause we all pay the same amount for these cars .
I'm just saying that me personally wouldn't want your business. For reasons stated. Your not a loyal customer. Also the whole haggling excuse you give is bullshit. I use to love to tell guys like you this.
When you go to the grocery store and the total comes to $248.63 do you haggle with the checkout person. When they say there's no discount do you ask to speak to a manager? Lol! Guys like you are easy target for guys like me . I would insult you looking you straight in the eye while shaking your hand and showing you the exit.
The service departments of every car dealership are sociopaths and deserve to be angle-shot into a coma. I've had several friends work in the service depts of major dealerships and these people are soulless, truly.
The best advice you will ever hear about car maintenance is to find a repair place that will charge you labor only and let you bring your own parts in. Then go to the Ebay of car parts - http://www.car-part.com and get what you need. I just saved $1600 doing this for a passenger side mirror compared to the price the "friend of the community" wanted to charge me.
Call the "friend of the community" (car dealership), get a quote for the same job then put the difference into an ETF that buys the whole market like VTI. In 30 years, if you do this everytime your car breaks, you might end up with 7 figures. This is how larcenous the people in the car business are.
Go find the guy this song was written about, bring him your own part and save yourself a lot of aggravation:
The old man was covered with tattoos and scars
He got some in prison and others in bars
The rest he got working' on old junk cars
In the daytime
They looked like tombstones in our yard
And I never seen him when he wasn't tired and mean
He sold used parts to make ends meet
Covered with grease from his head to his feet
Cussing the sweat and the Texas heat
And the skeeters
And the neighbors said we lived like hicks
But they brung their cars for paw to fix anyhow
Thank you for proving why I wanted to sell cars to people that would service then at my lot. People are funny they want a dealer to sell them a car at cost then complain about what it costs to service it. Who the hell stays in business not making a profit?
Maybe all cars should be sold brand new direct from the manufacturer and all services be done at Walmart? You guys always make me laugh.
I think you are taking this somewhat personally because you were once in the business, and people like me were holding you back from making more money.
You missed my point.
The way you go about it is why a salesperson doesn't want to deal with you. It has nothing to do with the commission. You yourself have no other option but to deal with a manager . You use the hostile salesperson as the reason.
Let's look at the average auto salesman day. Work at 8:00 am . Some floors are open some have what's called an up system. Open floor is customer comes on lot first salesman to the customer gets it. Up system is you wait in line for a customer. Most average car salesman work 60 hours a week. When I say average that's exactly what I mean they are making decent money but a horrible hourly wage.
Salesman take a ton of phone calls each day . Most of them consist of customer's such as you . Do you have this ? Can you get that? How much is it? I'll only pay this ? I want blue not green. On and on and on it goes. These salesman are fighting a two front war. One with you the customer and two with there sales manager or owner to produce sales.
Myself I was a complete asshole to customers. There are many ways to explain it but basically I can't sell you a car over the phone. You need to make an appointment to come see me and give me the opportunity to EARN your business. I didn't waste time with non buyer's . If I had the car in stock with the correct options in the color you wanted at the price you would pay you where driving that fucking thing home.
If I didn't have those things then goodbye I have other things to do. People liked my upfront attitude with them . They came to respect it .
One of my best lines was when a customer would say oh I'm just looking. My response instantly would be sir do we really want to start a business relationship lying to each other? What do you mean? Sir nobody comes to a car lot to look . This is not a car show it's a business we sell cars . Nobody likes coming to a car lot to buy cars so if I have the right model for the right price you would buy it today correct? Then I shut up and wait as long as it takes to get an answer. If it's yes we continue if it's no I usually excuse myself and go print out directions to the closest competition and cone out and hand it to said customer. I would say here is the closest store maybe they are willing to let you browse. When you are serious about purchasing please come back and see me cause we all pay the same amount for these cars .
I'm just saying that me personally wouldn't want your business. For reasons stated. Your not a loyal customer. Also the whole haggling excuse you give is bullshit. I use to love to tell guys like you this.
When you go to the grocery store and the total comes to $248.63 do you haggle with the checkout person. When they say there's no discount do you ask to speak to a manager? Lol! Guys like you are easy target for guys like me . I would insult you looking you straight in the eye while shaking your hand and showing you the exit.
If you own the lot, and it's either independent or associated with a low-end brand, then yes, you can take this rude/hostile line without consequence.
In fact, even as a salesman at a lower-end brand, you can sometimes take this rude line without consequence.
However, this sort of thing can't and won't fly at a BMW or Mercedes dealership. They are required to adhere to strict standards regarding the treatment of customers. If the dealership gets even one complaint, they lose cars allocated to them. If they get too many complaints, they can be dropped completely.
Therefore, the BMW salesmen do not have the luxury of telling people to scram, insulting them, or lecturing them. If they do, they'll be out of a job soon enough.
That's not to say they don't try their own passive-aggressive ways to get rid of me. Usually it involves promising a call back and never doing so, intentionally quoting a high price, or some other backdoor method to get me out of their hair. Hence, I skip past all of this and go directly to the sales manager, who cares about the number of sales and not commissions.
Look, on the other side of the business, I can understand the frustration that salesmen go through. Looky-loos. People with phone calls just trying to pump for info. Flakes. Cheap Jews. I get it.
But again, none of that is my problem. I am the customer. Most dealerships still exist in a haggle model. Your example of the grocery store is a bad one, because grocery stores do NOT exist on a haggle model. I predict that eventually car sales won't, either (some are already getting away from it). But as long as they are, I will haggle the best price, and I'd be a fool not to.
And if you really feel like you saved more money than you deserved, then donate the money you saved to charity. But it's absurd to chide someone for haggling the best deal in a haggle pricing model.
BTW, I don't waste anyone's time. In fact, the way I do things (and the way I suggested people do things on radio), it saves time for both the buyer and the dealership/salespeople.
I stated that you should already know what you want before you call, then call up and level with the sales manager. Tell them that you're price shopping, ready to buy, and will go with the dealership with the most competitive price. Then get their best quote. Then call around, and indeed go with the best one. This is a far better approach for everyone, rather than feigning interest and wasting the dealership's time, only to go with someone else who ultimately offers you a better deal.
BTW, before I decided to bypass the salesmen, I used to get ones just like you on the phone:
"I don't give quotes over the phone, you'll need to come down here"
"It's against our dealership's policy to give phone quotes" (which was a lie, btw)
"Let me look into some things and call you back" (no call, obv)
"The best we can do is $3000 over invoice" (bullshit)
But yeah, I don't fall for any of that. Much like an all-in bet is unbluffable in NL holdem, the "I'm looking for the best possible price and will go with the dealership who gives me the lowest one" is immune to sneaky car salesman psychological tactics.
Actually, what you do is charge 2-3x ** RETAIL ** for a part then lie about how much time you spent putting it in. You also may lie about what work needs to be done and of course lie about using a genuine part vs an OEM part, etc.
Thank you for proving why I wanted to sell cars to people that would service then at my lot. People are funny they want a dealer to sell them a car at cost then complain about what it costs to service it. Who the hell stays in business not making a profit?
Maybe all cars should be sold brand new direct from the manufacturer and all services be done at Walmart? You guys always make me laugh.
Everyone I know that owns a car lot in any form (dealership, buy here pay here, etc) is filthy rich. I know people that own all kinds of businesses but the only other business I see that compares is pediatric Dentasry. Congrats on your scamming ways, but I am not buying tickets to your carnival.
Funny you mention pediatric dentistry.
I pay for an individual policy for Benjamin. It's kind of a shit policy, but it's only $23/month and it covers preventative, so it's worth it.
Two checkups and cleanings per year are covered.
The insurance cuts a check for more than half of my yearly premiums paid, and they do so twice per year.
So they are literally losing money on me each year.
I'm talking about the actual check they cut the dentist, not what is "written off" due to contract.
Not sure how they can stay in business this way, but I'm not questioning it.
Pediatric dentistry probably resorts to sleazy tactics at times because, aside from orthodontics (which is sometimes a separate practice), kids don't get many expensive dental problems. Not many cavities (at least not compared to adults), no root canals, no bridges, no crowns, etc.
Are you friends with the Dentist? How do you know that's what they are getting paid exactly or do you just take the insurance company at their word for what the statement reflects? I wouldn't believe anything anything written on a piece of paper when it comes to medical billing.
Also, I live in a neighborhood of hall of fame athletes and real life 1%ers and have several "friends" who are dentists. The pediactric dentists are 100% robbing everyone whatever it is they are doing. Their houses are some of the biggest in the neighborhood. I could show you the house of a left handed reliever that pitched in MLB for 12+ years, a hall of fame NFL linebacker and the house of a pediatric dentist and if you didn't suspect I was trying to make a point, you'd be drawing dead and guessing who lived where.
I think you are taking this somewhat personally because you were once in the business, and people like me were holding you back from making more money.
If you own the lot, and it's either independent or associated with a low-end brand, then yes, you can take this rude/hostile line without consequence.
In fact, even as a salesman at a lower-end brand, you can sometimes take this rude line without consequence.
However, this sort of thing can't and won't fly at a BMW or Mercedes dealership. They are required to adhere to strict standards regarding the treatment of customers. If the dealership gets even one complaint, they lose cars allocated to them. If they get too many complaints, they can be dropped completely.
Therefore, the BMW salesmen do not have the luxury of telling people to scram, insulting them, or lecturing them. If they do, they'll be out of a job soon enough.
That's not to say they don't try their own passive-aggressive ways to get rid of me. Usually it involves promising a call back and never doing so, intentionally quoting a high price, or some other backdoor method to get me out of their hair. Hence, I skip past all of this and go directly to the sales manager, who cares about the number of sales and not commissions.
Look, on the other side of the business, I can understand the frustration that salesmen go through. Looky-loos. People with phone calls just trying to pump for info. Flakes. Cheap Jews. I get it.
But again, none of that is my problem. I am the customer. Most dealerships still exist in a haggle model. Your example of the grocery store is a bad one, because grocery stores do NOT exist on a haggle model. I predict that eventually car sales won't, either (some are already getting away from it). But as long as they are, I will haggle the best price, and I'd be a fool not to.
And if you really feel like you saved more money than you deserved, then donate the money you saved to charity. But it's absurd to chide someone for haggling the best deal in a haggle pricing model.
BTW, I don't waste anyone's time. In fact, the way I do things (and the way I suggested people do things on radio), it saves time for both the buyer and the dealership/salespeople.
I stated that you should already know what you want before you call, then call up and level with the sales manager. Tell them that you're price shopping, ready to buy, and will go with the dealership with the most competitive price. Then get their best quote. Then call around, and indeed go with the best one. This is a far better approach for everyone, rather than feigning interest and wasting the dealership's time, only to go with someone else who ultimately offers you a better deal.
BTW, before I decided to bypass the salesmen, I used to get ones just like you on the phone:
"I don't give quotes over the phone, you'll need to come down here"
"It's against our dealership's policy to give phone quotes" (which was a lie, btw)
"Let me look into some things and call you back" (no call, obv)
"The best we can do is $3000 over invoice" (bullshit)
But yeah, I don't fall for any of that. Much like an all-in bet is unbluffable in NL holdem, the "I'm looking for the best possible price and will go with the dealership who gives me the lowest one" is immune to sneaky car salesman psychological tactics.
I beg to differ I sold At a Honda/BMW store . It didn't matter to me if you where buying a two door stick Civic hatchback with no air or a BMW 8 series. I sold an average of 25-30 cars a month and made a ton of money which led me to sales manager then general manager and Ultimately to owning my own lot .
I'm not mad or taking it personally . Might come off that way I suppose in text . I am just presenting a opposite side to your point of view. One thing to always remember is a good deal is only what you perceive it to be.
Actually, what you do is charge 2-3x ** RETAIL ** for a part then lie about how much time you spent putting it in. You also may lie about what work needs to be done and of course lie about using a genuine part vs an OEM part, etc.
Everyone I know that owns a car lot in any form (dealership, buy here pay here, etc) is filthy rich. I know people that own all kinds of businesses but the only other business I see that compares is pediatric Dentasry. Congrats on your scamming ways, but I am not buying tickets to your carnival.
The car business was very very good to me. More so on the wholesale end then retail . I won't argue the wealth that can be obtained in that business . I also won't argue the service department making tons of money but like I said the profit has to come from somewhere .
I've never seen a Honda/BMW store. Was this an independent used car lot? Because that's a different matter entirely.
I've only seen BMW dealerships as strictly BMW, or sometimes BMW/Mini (since Mini is owned by BMW).
Honda doesn't have any standards. They basically don't give a shit how their dealerships treat customers. Short of outright scamming, they don't get involved in customer disputes/complaints, beyond simply taking reports and passing them along to the dealership owner (lol).
BMW is very strict. For every complaint they get, the dealership gets penalized, even if it's undetermined who's really at fault. That's why BMW is pressured to make things right for the customer, provided that the customer even has a moderately reasonable complaint.
I'm glad you were successful at selling cars. I agree I'm not the type of customer you were looking for. At the same time, you're also not the type of salesman I was looking for. We both had the same goal, just on opposite ends of the equation.
I've never seen a Honda/BMW store. Was this an independent used car lot? Because that's a different matter entirely.
I've only seen BMW dealerships as strictly BMW, or sometimes BMW/Mini (since Mini is owned by BMW).
Honda doesn't have any standards. They basically don't give a shit how their dealerships treat customers. Short of outright scamming, they don't get involved in customer disputes/complaints, beyond simply taking reports and passing them along to the dealership owner (lol).
BMW is very strict. For every complaint they get, the dealership gets penalized, even if it's undetermined who's really at fault. That's why BMW is pressured to make things right for the customer, provided that the customer even has a moderately reasonable complaint.
I'm glad you were successful at selling cars. I agree I'm not the type of customer you were looking for. At the same time, you're also not the type of salesman I was looking for. We both had the same goal, just on opposite ends of the equation.
It was an owner who had bought the right to sell Honda's and BMW's back in the 70's . He owned both dealerships and we sold both car lines out of the same building. I started selling cars in 1988 For a stand alone Oldsmobile dealerrship. Talk about a tough sale . 20 Salespeople working six days a week. It was cut throat . That's how I honed my skills of no bullshit. At that store you didn't even get a test drive without writing a check deposit of $100.00 to prove you where a serious buyer.
I switched to Honda/BMW in 1993 . I also had a brief stop at a Honda/Mercedes store . I'm sure many things have changed in the 15 years I've been out of the business . The only thing I'll say is the fixed price point will never work in the auto sales business . Just ask Saturn how that all worked for them?
I was actually shocked when listening to radio when you started mentioning dealer holdback. That was a secret for years . It allowed the dealer to sell you the car at invoice and still make a profit. Depending on the car holdback could be a decent amount of money.
Also I will admit I've sold a few cars over the phone but they where special models. The M3 BMW when they brought it back . Dealers could only get a certain amount allowed per year and they sold for over MSRP because the demand was high. Also when Honda came out with the Del-Sol certain colors where in high demand
Anyways interesting conversation this is and it's bringing back alot of good memories.
Last edited by Gookieheimowitz; 08-05-2018 at 12:31 AM.
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