Are You Leaving California ???

[Dan Druff]

Actually, Rollo is correct.

There are a lot of businesses leaving California because of high taxes. This is especially true of businesses that don't necessarily need to do business directly in person with Californians. (A mail order business is a good example of this.)

California has the highest sales tax and the 2nd highest income tax in the nation.

It has the highest gasoline tax in the nation.

Property tax is low overall in California, but only thanks to Proposition 13 (which disallows raising tax rates according to rising property values for existing homeowners), but Prop 13 is under constant assault by the left, and is already being circumvented in various ways. Property tax does not directly affect many businesses because they often rent space instead of own.

There are two really good things about California:

1) For the majority of the state's population ,the weather is the best of anywhere in the nation, by a wide margin.

2) The variety of terrain gives Californians relatively close access to the beach, the mountains, and the desert.


California's big downsides are the taxes and the cost of real estate.

It's sad to see so much talk of leaving California, when previous generations flocked there from other states, as if it were some kind of paradise. Now many of those same people are leaving for Oregon, Arizona, Nevada, and Colorado.

The illegal immigration situation alone is going to become an unmanageable problem for the state in the coming decades unless they do something to get a handle on it.

[Dan Druff]

Good luck not understanding the taxable profit businesses make employing immigrants and illegals, or do you not understand how people are lured here by work and that work makes their employers money, which they pay taxes on. Which easily pays for their health care we aren't giving them except in emergencies. But I might have bit off a little too much trying to explain that to you.

This is assuming that most illegal immigrants are employed and generally act as good citizens.

Unfortunately, that's not the case.

You won't be able to show me a single city in California that has a substantial population of illegal immigrants that doesn't also have a violent crime problem.

Also, your example of illegal immigrants indirectly paying taxes by making their employer money is flawed. Employers have to pay taxes on both employees and income. When they only pay on income, these employers are in effect dodging taxes. This is why it is common in certain close-knit ethnic communitiies (Israeli, Russian, Chinese, etc), to primarily hire under-the-table employees, so both the employer and employees avoid paying taxes.

[Rollo Tomasi]

Druff do you think Prop 30 will pass and if it does will it chase some rich people out of the state and did you know it's retroactive for 2012

[tony bagadonuts]

[Dan Druff]

Druff do you think Prop 30 will pass and if it does will it chase some rich people out of the state and did you know it's retroactive for 2012

No, I think it will lose.

Californians are so sick of being taxed that even normally left-leaning voters often vote NO on new taxes -- even ones aimed at the rich. Also, people are going to hate the sales tax hike, which is also part of prop 30.

It is already losing support among registered voters. New tax initiatives almost never gain a surge of support in the closing days up to an election, so if it's looking close, it usually doesn't pass.

Another proposition that I hope fails (and probably will) is Prop 34, the repeal of the death penalty.

One of the main arguments to repeal the death penalty is that it is "too expensive" because of the lengthy appeals system. The ironic thing is that the overly-lengthy appeals system was put in place by death penalty opponents in the first place. So the opponents of the death penalty fought tooth and nail to get a ridiculous appeals system in place, and now are using that system as an argument to end the death penalty!

[Rollo Tomasi]

Sorry that probably went over your head. I'll help you out. If A-Rod makes 10 million, plays 160 games and plays 16 of those games in say, Massachusets......the State of Massachussets taxes him their rate on the 1 million they assert he makes there.


This isn't a for instance. professional athletes really do pay taxes to dozens of states. A pro athlete has a long tax return. So do companies in numerous states.

Will Josh Hamilton avoid playing Boston over 3%. No.

Will Josh Hamilton leave the Rangers? Maybe, but not because of an income tax in another state he earns an income in. He will still pay those same exact taxes based on how many games he played in each taxing entity. BUT......he could save a lot of money on his 10 million dollar house by simply living in Louisiana and still enjoying the same income in the different profitable states.

i hope this made more sense.

if anyone doubts pro ball players pay taxes based on the number of games they play in a given state.....i will google it for ya.


Good luck letting actual facts seep into your misunderstanding your are furiously having on state taxes and their business consequences.

Good luck on not understanding how much food stamps save in criminal justice related costs.

Good luck on not understanding how food stamp programs in a down economy are thriving and welcomed in GOP states like Texas because they work to save the state money. And the GOP is supposed to like that.

Good luck not understanding the taxable profit businesses make employing immigrants and illegals, or do you not understand how people are lured here by work and that work makes their employers money, which they pay taxes on. Which easily pays for their health care we aren't giving them except in emergencies. But I might have bit off a little too much trying to explain that to you.

thanks i see you calmed down GB, it's well known about sports players tax situation,i wish we made their kind of insane money,
I know about my Industry and Steel Mfg has mostly left CA to Utah, Arizona and some overseas obviously
i'm not against food stamps or welfare, if poor people need it they should get help but don't you think it's messed up that the Fed Gov spent 61K for every poor family in 2011, there has to be a better way to manage it, the Fed Gov should be was run like a business not politician's personal playground, throw all the bums out and have term limits so american citizens stop getting screwed by their own government

"New data compiled by the Republican side of the Senate Budget Committee shows that, last year, the United States spent over $60,000 to support welfare programs per each household that is in poverty. The calculations are based on data from the Census, the Office of Management and Budget, and the Congressional Research Services.

"According to the Census’s American Community Survey, the number of households with incomes below the poverty line in 2011 was 16,807,795," the Senate Budget Committee notes. "If you divide total federal and state spending by the number of households with incomes below the poverty line, the average spending per household in poverty was $61,194 in 2011."

This dollar figure is almost three times the amount the average household on poverty lives on per year. "If the spending on these programs were converted into cash, and distributed exclusively to the nation’s households below the poverty line, this cash amount would be over 2.5 times the federal poverty threshold for a family of four, which in 2011 was $22,350 (see table in this link)," the Republicans on the Senate Budget Committee note.

To be clear, not all households living below the poverty line receive $61,194 worth of assistance per year. After all, many above the poverty line also receive benefits from social welfare programs (e.g. pell grants).

But if welfare is meant to help bring those below the poverty line to a better place, it helps demonstrate that numbers do not add up."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ty_657889.html

[Gordman]

just an example, there are 7 states with no state income tax Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming,
i don't think many are moving to Florida

because California over regulates manufacturing they have chased and are chasing it out of the state, so they lose those taxes to other states like Utah and Texas that are doing well and the citizens of California have a heavier tax burden to make up the difference

You are an idiot. Texas has a extremely high property tax instead. There are consequences to low taxes. Other taxes pop up elsewhere, or deficits do.

Not only that Texas has a "franchise tax" on business. We pay ojn revenue, not profit. If you have a restaurant/club that makes $100k a year, but with 10 million in volume.....you get to pay an extra 100k and get zero profit.

I could go on, and attempt to explain real market forces such as the o&g business effects on this state but you are too stupid to understand them.

its even funnier you thinking companies get chased out of states by income tax. You simply don't understand the mechanisms of taxes because you will never make these types of economic decisions.

Like relocating your corporate headquarters means you don't have to still pay these taxes? No. You pay taxes INSIDE THE STATE YOU POSTED A PROFIT, REGARDLESS OF WHERE YOU ARE HEADQUARTERED. You are doing business INSIDE A STATE BECAUSE IT IS PROFITABLE. the 4-5% isn't going to change that. Leaving the state? Your profit center and business are still there for your competitors.


It can be the other way around though. Leaving a state like Texas. When my company posted a profit in Colorado, we paid Colorado state income taxes while still having to pay property tax on our equipment in Texas. Why not just move to Colorado? We just might. especially since the high personal costs of property tax effect me more than state business tax I don't pay on out of state income.

get it? probably not. But keep on posting theories you read on some right wing site. There are reasons the American people will never give full control to the tea party. They haven't thought through their complaints, let alone possible decisions that should come with the problems that they have "identified".

You are everything that is wrong with America: You whine like a girl about problems you don't understand, You are also stupid, angry, and prone to soundbite fueled, populist anti-intellectual rage, without any understanding of basic economic issues you complain about. And then you have no solution to even your imaginary problems. "HEY GUYS LET'S CUT TAXES SO LOW MAN IT WILL BE GREAT. BUSINESS WILL BOOM ALONG WITH JOBS! Fuck yeah. But wait.......there isn't a single place that has ever worked in world history? Fuck it. lets talk about it non-stop anyway". Fucking rube. STFU.

FALSE

If you're going to arrogantly talk down to everyone like you know what you are talking about, you better completely know what you are talking about.

If someone is talking about transferring their headquarters, they could be referring to the ramifications of combined reporting. there may be other reasons as well, but I don't have time to look them up right now.

Yes, there are some states that don't have combined reporting (maybe why companies are eying moving their headquarters there), but a majority have enacted some form of combined reporting at this point.

There is a big reason why for example in my state many businesses were considering moving their headquarters out of state, and it ain't because of the scenery.

[hutmaster]

thought of leaving, but not because of taxation...

its because i feel like a foreigner in Los Angeles...

i am surrounded by people that don't speak English, instead they speak Spanish, Armenian, Korean or Mandarin...

Espanol, por favor.

[DirtyB]

In the latest Reason-Rupe poll of 696 California voters, including 508 likely voters, 46 percent report they have seriously considered leaving the Golden State, 54 percent say they have not.

So a hardcore Libertarian organization concluded that taxes are bad? That's such a surprise.

California's high cost of living is caused by supply and demand. 38 million people mostly want to live on a relatively small sliver of land along the coast. There are lots of reasons for a high cost of living besides taxes.

[DirtyB]

Actually, Rollo is correct.

There are a lot of businesses leaving California because of high taxes.

Care to back that up with data?

The only place I see that reported is bluecollarphilosophy.com. They include some numbers.

"In 2011, more businesses (254) quit California than the year before (202), which was a high-water mark over 2009 (51). Last year, roughly five businesses left in any given week, one more than left in each week of 2010 when the average was 3.9."

The federal government says that California contains 3,320,977 small businesses, of which 1,068,602 have employees. Assuming those stats are only counting business with employees (which it doesn't say), California lost a whopping 0.02% of its businesses last year.

[DirtyB]

This is assuming that most illegal immigrants are employed and generally act as good citizens.

Unfortunately, that's not the case.

You think a majority of illegal immigrants are bad citizens? You think that less than 50% just want to go to work and feed their families?

[Walter Sobchak]

Actually, Rollo is correct.

There are a lot of businesses leaving California because of high taxes.

Care to back that up with data?

The only place I see that reported is bluecollarphilosophy.com. They include some numbers.

"In 2011, more businesses (254) quit California than the year before (202), which was a high-water mark over 2009 (51). Last year, roughly five businesses left in any given week, one more than left in each week of 2010 when the average was 3.9."

The federal government says that California contains 3,320,977 small businesses, of which 1,068,602 have employees. Assuming those stats are only counting business with employees (which it doesn't say), California lost a whopping 0.02% of its businesses last year.

Don't confuse me with the facts!

[408Mike]

This is assuming that most illegal immigrants are employed and generally act as good citizens.

Unfortunately, that's not the case.

You think a majority of illegal immigrants are bad citizens? You think that less than 50% just want to go to work and feed their families?

You need to differentiate between the generations born in mexico who come here to work (usually north of 30 years old) and the younger generations (who, admittedly, are normally not illegal, having been born here)

Basically illegals born in mex coming here to work I would say greater than 90% are kick ass employees who keep their heads down and bust their asses without causing trouble, and by the same token, greater than 90% of their kids are pieces of shit who sell drugs and run cartels and pimp out young girls and have kids starting at about 13 years old or so (12 is not unheard of, my niece was pregnant at 12 had a miscarriage then twins at 14 solo at 15 and last solo at 16, and now is serving 50 years for crack possesion and sales)

Druffs most cogent argument is that for all the hard workers we get, a lot of crime comes with them, and it's debateable if this is favorable overall for Americans (I think it isn't) but that's PURELY opinion, not fact. I believe one would find the FACTS highly favor illegals being allowed to come here and work, but OPINIONS will vary.

[Rollo Tomasi]

Actually, Rollo is correct.

There are a lot of businesses leaving California because of high taxes.

Care to back that up with data?

The only place I see that reported is bluecollarphilosophy.com. They include some numbers.

"In 2011, more businesses (254) quit California than the year before (202), which was a high-water mark over 2009 (51). Last year, roughly five businesses left in any given week, one more than left in each week of 2010 when the average was 3.9."

The federal government says that California contains 3,320,977 small businesses, of which 1,068,602 have employees. Assuming those stats are only counting business with employees (which it doesn't say), California lost a whopping 0.02% of its businesses last year.

that's because many manufacturers left the state already due to over regulation also it doesn't tell you how many jobs left the state with those businesses and it's not much comfort to the roughly 20% of Californians that are unemployed or under employed

You think a majority of illegal immigrants are bad citizens? You think that less than 50% just want to go to work and feed their families?

I believe one would find the FACTS highly favor illegals being allowed to come here and work, but OPINIONS will vary.

we do it's called LEGAL immigration, illegals are not "citizens", please don't let facts get in the way

[DirtyB]

Care to back that up with data?

The only place I see that reported is bluecollarphilosophy.com. They include some numbers.

"In 2011, more businesses (254) quit California than the year before (202), which was a high-water mark over 2009 (51). Last year, roughly five businesses left in any given week, one more than left in each week of 2010 when the average was 3.9."

The federal government says that California contains 3,320,977 small businesses, of which 1,068,602 have employees. Assuming those stats are only counting business with employees (which it doesn't say), California lost a whopping 0.02% of its businesses last year.

that's because many manufacturers left the state already due to over regulation also it doesn't tell you how many jobs left the state with those businesses and it's not much comfort to the roughly 20% of Californians that are unemployed or under employed

That's not data. Have you ever backed one of your retarded, sweeping qualitative statements up with actual facts?

[Anal_Hershiser]

Actually, Rollo is correct.

There are a lot of businesses leaving California because of high taxes.

Care to back that up with data?

2:00 in.



Multiply that by god knows how many shows have done the same and you have your data. California is a horrible place to live, run a business, basically do anything because the taxes are out of control. Business's will go where it is cheapest to produce their product. That is not California.

[DirtyB]

Care to back that up with data?

2:00 in.

Multiply that by god knows how many shows have done the same and you have your data. California is a horrible place to live, run a business, basically do anything because the taxes are out of control. Business's will go where it is cheapest to produce their product. That is not California.

Yes, anecdotes are one kind a data. Like you are one kind of dumbass.

[Anal_Hershiser]

2:00 in.

Multiply that by god knows how many shows have done the same and you have your data. California is a horrible place to live, run a business, basically do anything because the taxes are out of control. Business's will go where it is cheapest to produce their product. That is not California.

Yes, anecdotes are one kind a data. Like you are one kind of dumbass.

Yeah. Why listen to a guy who has actually worked in California and has spoken to others who have as well? I mean, WTF would he know about it compared to a curling obsessed nerd from Vegas?

[DirtyB]

Yes, anecdotes are one kind a data. Like you are one kind of dumbass.

Yeah. Why listen to a guy who has actually worked in California and has spoken to others who have as well? I mean, WTF would he know about it compared to a curling obsessed nerd from Vegas?

"Multiply that by god knows how many shows have done the same and you have your data"

You really think that "god knows how many" is a valid way to support a statement?

Mitt Romney has murdered god knows how many puppies.

I haven't been curling in 6 months. That's cute that you remember everything about my life. The only thing I know about your life is that you hate it.

[Anal_Hershiser]

Yeah. Why listen to a guy who has actually worked in California and has spoken to others who have as well? I mean, WTF would he know about it compared to a curling obsessed nerd from Vegas?

"Multiply that by god knows how many shows have done the same and you have your data"

You really think that "god knows how many" is a valid way to support a statement?

Mitt Romney has murdered god knows how many puppies.

ROFL. You're right. Breaking Bad is the ONLY production to have left California for tax reasons. Not once before or once after. The idea that productions can leave state and make their product for far cheaper in other states has NOTHING to do with California being as broke as 40Ape. I see logical thinking is not one of your strong suits.