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Originally Posted by OSA
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Originally Posted by OSA
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Originally Posted by OSA
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Originally Posted by GordmanQuote:
Originally Posted by Krypt
I just heard results of a scientic study that showed AA to be as effective as going solo.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgull
It said that the majority of newcomers don't make it to a third meeting.
Problem being the substance abuse is often not the core issue.
Worked for my brother though.
I work in the area so I feel qualified to comment. Yes AA and NA have shoddy evidence . That is in part because there haven't been studies and how groups are run vary widely. They are run by non professionals also. That being said there is evidence that they work very well in conjunction with individual therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by limitlesI just heard results of a scientic study that showed AA to be as effective as going solo.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgull
It said that the majority of newcomers don't make it to a third meeting.
Problem being the substance abuse is often not the core issue.
Worked for my brother though.
Some of my most successful clients have been into AA and NA big time. I think the big problem is that people think these groups are treatment when in reality they are more of a self help/support group. They are also great for people who have very low levels of social support or few sober friends.
No offense, but if you think AA is not functional and you are in the treatment business, its likely safe to assume you have a professional agenda. Everyone that goes to AA/NA and does not visit you, means money out of your industry. It's the age old battle between AA groups and treatment centers.Quote:
Originally Posted by BetCheckBetI work in the area so I feel qualified to comment. Yes AA and NA have shoddy evidence . That is in part because there haven't been studies and how groups are run vary widely. They are run by non professionals also. That being said there is evidence that they work very well in conjunction with individual therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by limitles
Some of my most successful clients have been into AA and NA big time. I think the big problem is that people think these groups are treatment when in reality they are more of a self help/support group. They are also great for people who have very low levels of social support or few sober friends.
Yes, AA is run by non professionals / volunteers (ex drunks and addicts) and I was at meetings over time that candidly were dicey. In one particular meeting there was a guy running the meeting because the normal host did not show up. He was basically a doper and he very well might have been strung out. He had no business running a meeting and probably chased off some people. He was simply bizarre talking about shooting up outside a motel room, keep in mind this was AA not NA.
Anyway, I get your point, anything run by volunteers can get sketchy. But in my years in AA (and its been since 2010 since I went), most meetings were therapeutic. For no other reason it kept me occupied and away from the liquor store and casino.
I said AA and NA are strong adjunct treatments but show questionable efficacy for being used as a primary treatment. This is not my opinion but that that of the research community. A big part of my job is linking clients with ongoing services so I refer many clients to AA and NA. But I've also seen some pretty stupid things like parents trying to get their 15 year old daughter to go to an adult group..Quote:
Originally Posted by tgullNo offense, but if you think AA is not functional and you are in the treatment business, its likely safe to assume you have a professional agenda. Everyone that goes to AA/NA and does not visit you, means money out of your industry. It's the age old battle between AA groups and treatment centers.Quote:
Originally Posted by BetCheckBet
Yes, AA is run by non professionals / volunteers (ex drunks and addicts) and I was at meetings over time that candidly were dicey. In one particular meeting there was a guy running the meeting because the normal host did not show up. He was basically a doper and he very well might have been strung out. He had no business running a meeting and probably chased off some people. He was simply bizarre talking about shooting up outside a motel room, keep in mind this was AA not NA.
Anyway, I get your point, anything run by volunteers can get sketchy. But in my years in AA (and its been since 2010 since I went), most meetings were therapeutic. For no other reason it kept me occupied and away from the liquor store and casino.
As I mentioned many of my successful clients go to AA. I just heard from one 18 year old last week who had just celebrated 8 months totally clean (and now running his own business) and AA was probably one of his biggest supports.
As for trying to get patients to come to me rather than AA/NA, sorry but LOL. The whole sector is overburdened and full of long waitlists. We want less clients not more...
I know a bunch of guys who got sober and have stayed sober via AA
LOL, no offense but come on. Treatment officials have been trashing AA for years. I highly doubt when a patient whips out their credit card you guys are recommending AA. Nope, its $10K to start (and a healthy commission for the rep to be sure) to get into professional treatment. You get a millionaire parent in there with his 17 year old son its like a shark in water. And I am not trying to sound like a douche, I get it, its business, we all have to make money.Quote:
Originally Posted by BetCheckBetAs for trying to get patients to come to me rather than AA/NA, sorry but LOL. The whole sector is overburdened and full of long waitlists. We want less clients not more...Quote:
Originally Posted by tgull
Addiction treatment is a business plain and simple. The broke ones you send to AA immediately. You have money, its treatment, and lots of it.
Your assumption is incorrect and couldn't be further from the truth. Nor do many addiction treatments in Canada work that way (you are also assuming that treatment means rehab which for most it doesn't). But I won't derail Willies thread any further. Feel free to PM or start separate thread as I feel continuing would be disrespectful to Willie.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgullLOL, no offense but come on. Treatment officials have been trashing AA for years. I highly doubt when a patient whips out their credit card you guys are recommending AA. Nope, its $10K to start (and a healthy commission for the rep to be sure) to get into professional treatment. You get a millionaire parent in there with his 17 year old son its like a shark in water. And I am not trying to sound like a douche, I get it, its business, we all have to make money.Quote:
Originally Posted by BetCheckBet
Addiction treatment is a business plain and simple. The broke ones you send to AA immediately. You have money, its treatment, and lots of it.
Not really talking just poker bankroll I'm talking that combined with life roll here but yes the Main Event is super soft for a $10k buyin.Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGaymerThe wsop main event is the biggest value tournament of the year, so a good player could take a much more aggressive shot with their bankroll; knowing that if they brick it they can carry on playing at their usual lower stakes for the rest of the year. I'd shoot at it if I had $100k for example - $300k is just unnecessarily nitty.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker
The fact that he went broke several months later would suggest that he had nowhere near six figures too.
Then the gambling afterwards where Willie says he blew through $15k and didn't care at the time was probably degening a bit. In that case he makes a mistake thinking because things were going so well for him the previous months leading up to the WSOP that they would continue that way so making that money back is not a problem. It all depends on how he built his roll to begin with whether it was from steady grinding it up or binking some good score in a MTT, pit game, BBJ,etc.
The events of losing $25k or more within a short period of time most likely helped lead to a downward spiral and a lot of that money he had in his box I'm assuming was a big percentage of his net worth.
Jungleman had $7 million or whatever on Full Tilt but it was some crazy amount like 95% of the money he had to his name in life which it was some crazy number so he wasn't looking out for his life roll enough to leave so much on there which it hurt him when the site went down just like Willie probably wasn't looking out for his future in that moment either. It's obvious Jungleman could get stakes so it's a bit different then Willie but just trying to explain why banks can actually be a good thing along with separating life money from your actual poker bankroll.
Look man, I know what I am talking about. I have seen a lot of Mercedes in the parking lot of these treatment facilities and they are not driven by patients if you get my drift.Quote:
Originally Posted by BetCheckBetYour assumption is incorrect and couldn't be further from the truth. Nor do many addiction treatments in Canada work that way (you are also assuming that treatment means rehab which for most it doesn't). But I won't derail Willies thread any further. Feel free to PM or start separate thread as I feel continuing would be disrespectful to Willie.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgull
As far a Willy goes he will be fine. He just needs a few drinks get his head right in the short term and get to some AA/NA meetings in a couple weeks. I am all for the week long bender before you get your head right, just to get it out of your system. Set a date, get plastered and stick to the date when you get to it.
AA works, that is all I have to say.
Fight Willie! Don't let addiction own you my brother.
You have to WANT to be clean, not just say it, you need to WANT it more than anything.
As you know, there are going to be times, especially in the beginning of your sobriety, that the weakness is going to creep up on you and you are going to want to say "fuck it, I need the boot"... BUT FUCK THAT WILLIE!!! Stand up and say "FUCK YOU WEAKNESS, I'M MOTHER FUCKING WILLIE BAD ASS MOTHER FUCKING MCFUCKYOU, I DON'T NEED THIS SHIT!!!
Just deal with the ugliness of going clean in the beginning and be patient and strong. Slowly but surely you will gain back all that is lost, it's just going to take time. One day at a time my brother. Stay fucking strong.
I like it and hope it's an answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369
My problem is I end up hearing, "FUCK YOU, MUTHA FUCKIN LIBRARIAN!" "YOU GOIN TA BED EARLY AGIN TONIGHT?"
Logic wins most often and I'll grab a six pack.
thanks, but there is nothing bad ass about being a fuckupQuote:
DRK Star: Druff, change his title to MOTHER FUCKING WILLIE BAD ASS to help him remember this lesson
and thanks for the well wishes from everyone but this has always made me uncomfortable
like when i got clean the first time many years ago, people would tell me congrats, great job, etc
it's like "congrats, on being a loser, and then not being a loser anymore!"
it happens.
that brand of shame spiral will keep you getting high infinite btw.
willie i was 60 when i was put on oxycodone. started with 10mg now i take 90 2 tim
es a day someday more. iam 68 now and cant walk without them and a canethis shit just dont let you go,this is just man made herion,if you can get by for 3 weeks without any your on your way to beino ok. but for 14 days your going tho hell. iam just to old to want to feel that bad. i have never done the real stuff and never will. you need those 2 weeks at home alone to have a chance. if you get that done just remember do it one time and you will have to start all over again. good luck willie your to young for this life
No shit. Saw this and thought he was just being humble or contrite. But jeez this seems like he really feels this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
We've all fucked up. Question is will your life continues to be a open festering puss filled wound instead of forming a good scar you can be proud of. It's the scars that make you interesting.
Edit: I've blown up my life's roll too - with kids & a mortgage. I win.
The heroin thing isn't that uncommon, I gather. So I bet it's tough but you aren't ready for some kind of "Fuck Up HOF". Son tells me stories about kids I know from travel teams and high school who got hurt (shoulders, knees) and ended up doing heroin once their opiate pain medication prescription ran out. It's really cheap.
Kids don't seem to have the same kind of stigma attached to others who have used.
You weren't looking for pity, you said. Cause you got that cornered. Bounce back and fuck what people think. Just give the others a few years and they'll have their own stories. If you ain't fucking up occasionally, you ain't livin.
I feel worse for guys like DRK and others who wrestle with pain every day and there isn't some 12 step plan that will end it. It does make their story more interesting though.
Only Druff can be perfect AND interesting.
It certainly can feel that way. And society has a way of stigmatizing mental health for sure. But I would ask would you think the same of someone who lost 100 pounds, went back to school, overcame homelessness, stopped being a deadbeat parent, etc. In the end success is success.Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieMcFML
Willie, don't confuse a medical condition -- that is what you have because of the power of that drug -- with your worthiness. It may seem that way, but that is a lie that is swirling around in your head. A damn lie that has no place there.Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieMcFML
So, tell that lie to fuck off. "Fuck off, lie!"
Because you ARE worthy. "Because I AM worthy!"
my choices are the following:
I can call my doc monday and hope he ups my methadone dose to 50mg per day to keep me stable. And then hopefully find a pharmacy that can fill the script.
I can stretch out the remaining 115mgs of methadone I have until Friday and then use the weekend to go cold turkey (it won't be enough and i'll feel like shit the majority of the time)
Stretch out the remaining methadone, go cold turkey for a day or two next weekend and then start on the 4 suboxones i have, and call one of the docs in my area to setup an appointment and get a script for those. there are several in my area.
if i had a week off of work my plan would be just go cold turkey with the help of my parents, and not rely on any pharmaceuticals but that's not really an option right now
one thing i can't do is just continue using. even if i wanted to i don't have the cash to keep going (i took a shot with the last i had trying to run it up and it didn't go well)
either way, judgement day is coming and it's going to be painful
f i had a week off of work my plan would be just go cold turkey with the help of my parents, and not rely on any pharmaceuticals but that's not really an option right now
This seems best. You can't make up a white lie and get a week off? 1 week off to start on the path of wellness seems better than the alternative
i just started two months ago and have already taken a few days off being dope sickQuote:
Originally Posted by big dick
Getting well should probably supercede anything else, including your job.What good is the job if your spending $500+ a week on dope + all the other negative shit it brings.
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Originally Posted by Sanlmar
EXACTLY!Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
It ain't about being a winner or a loser Willie, you have to stop thinking in those kinds of terms.
This is literally about life and death! There is no shame in wanting to live. You ain't the first good person to get hooked on that shit, and you definitely won't be the last. I honestly respect anyone that can beat that shit. We ALL make mistakes dude. You're a good guy. Deal with the horrible 2 weeks, beat it, move on and live your life the best that you can.
.
I actually agree that you should keep people at work from finding out about this, if possible.
If you have no other choice, then tell them. For example, if the choice is between being seen as either an irresponsible flake or a drug addict who is trying to recover, go with the latter.
But if you can get this sorted out while still holding down the job normally, I would go with that option.
You're in a bad spot, but it could be worse. At least you're still employed.
GL
leaving this up because i don't wants vegas' rep to go without comment (plop said he commented without reading and wanted to delete his post)
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i owe you $350 from the $250 i borrowed (sick $100 juice) and another member from this board $250
i have borrowed from both of you several times and have always managed to pay on time or early w/ interest
Well, at least we can get a good laugh knowing that PLOP thinks he's only feeding a gambling addiction with a 40% vig.
Was gonna drop it, but i guess Willie wants it to stick so it doesn't look like he's hiding anything. Me charging 40% vig simply isn't true. On November 7th, Willie asked for $150 on paypal and said he would pay back Friday, which I sent right away w/no questions. This was fairly standard as we had done it several times in the past and he'd pay me back the same day with a little on top as a thank you (in this particular case he was asking for a little longer, which I assumed had to do with cashing a paycheck or something since I knew he had a new job).Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369
On November 11th Willie asked if he could have $100 more until Friday, which again I sent right away. The next day he asked me what's the juice. I said $30 is fair given length of time and amount, to which he responded by calling me a jew (fair enough) and said I always made sure I had the best of it (again, fair enough). I told him "I mean, $25 would be fine".
On Friday November 13th I messaged him saying "Thank god it's Friday". He messaged back saying "Could you keep the juice running for two weeks for $100?". I agreed.
On Friday November 27th I messaged him saying "Alright buddy..." and Willie says "will send you something monday but i don't have it all. in a bad spot. sorry,".
I was not made aware of any drug relapse or any of this until I decided to browse this forum (which I don't visit as often) on my own and opened up this thread. I read the first post and assumed he probably borrowed from a lot of people and that I was probably one of the smaller loaners. This doesn't appear to be the case, but it's what I naturally thought at first glance. But to say that I charged you $100 vig on a $250 loan simply isn't accurate.
I haven't read whole thread because you picked Ohio State Michigan day and I'm in the bag. In the short term, off that list, I'd definitely appeal to my doctor given you already have a relationship with him. He'll want you to keep a job and be productive. He won't like it, but assuming you're not also on a benzo script, might help you for that mg. Obviously methadone scares the shit out of them because of how slow it needs ramped up, but if he believes you on a personal level where your tolerance is already at, that would be the far better option. If he does, put your head down, soldier on, and start a really long slow wean. I'd appeal to him that he can start weaning you back every month slowly if it makes him more comfortable. Clearly you're back in the grind now and pain is coming some day, but better when you're weaned down to a few mgs and have job security.
Assuming he doesn't go for it:
What do you need in the short term to not wreck your life? Like methadone wafers or suboxone? I know a lot of people with take homes but its all liquid long timers. I obviously can't ship that. I wish this was 5 years ago when I had access to all that shit around me all the time. I can text a few people and see tomorrow. What is preferrable and how much do you need to bridge you over? Is that even an option or would it be too long a process? If your doctor is a dick, do you have access to a clinic that will ramp you up to 50ish over a month or so? I know wafers and suboxone float around, but I don't know that they flow in a consistent manner that you can rely on. If I can find them, what $ should I be paying to not get ripped off?
I'll pm you tomorrow if I can find them. I'm probably going to get a so and so has 2 of this and 3 of that and will be a waste of time, but maybe I'll get lucky.
Just keep your head up. You fucked yourself, and it's miserable, but you will get through it. Head down, lose the circle of people once youre on right track, and just be productive.
Honestly, you're too smart for that world. Bunch of people chain smoking talking about how the world has fucked them all day. Once you get on program, wake up, dress well, go to work and forget those fucking people exist.
For me, casino pits and drugs will grab me in a big way if my head is fucked. If I'm down, that shit wrecks me, and you pay for it for months after. Its always insane, because it isn't sustainable if youre not Keith Richards. No one can fade the expense long term health risks aside
if you cant forgive a junky a few hundred dollars in debt, you have not played the cards life has dealt you well.
here is the actual convo which went a little differently as plop said
and i do feel like he squeezes me, like "he always has to get the best of it"
i made several bets with him always giving him an edge cause i just like to gamble. he's made over $2.5k in these bets
and when i first started my habit i was getting cash advances off my credit card bu using plop to send me paypal i could convert to cash - we did dozens of these where he made hundreds of dollars by doing nothing. he would literally send back money i sent him (minus a VIG of course), where he never even had to use his own money cause i sent first
and now when he knows i'm busted, tries to squeeze me for $10 more dollars on a loan of 4 days?? when i offered him a more than fair $20?
the other person from here which i considered a friend never asked for a penny interest (even though i always sent him more)
i don't know, just thought it was kind of a dick move from someone who has already made a chunk of money off me
edit:
and the "maybe, maybe not" in the chat was me joking (at least at the time)
lol, just 39%Quote:
vegas1369: Not charging Willie 40% vig rep
The 39% was a joke (which you knew). $30 divided by $250 is 12%. Also if you scroll down more and screenshot the rest, you'll see I said $25 was fine after you tried to guilt trip me for asking for $30 on a loan (which still hasn't been paid back). And fwiw you only made this thread after your "mystery friend" finally got you to admit what the many small loans were really for.Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieMcFML
As far as charging more vig than you'd like on a sports bet, I'm not booking multi-thousand dollar sports bets for you (which you are picking, not me) as an act of charity. Sorry if there was confusion there. The fact that I won the bet is irrelevant.
But don't worry, I've already been informed that I'm not getting anything on Monday and that I'm "real classy" for posting here.
no one made me make this thread, and my "mystery friend" is only not named out of respect for him. he is welcome to jump in at any time.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLOLThe 39% was a joke (which you knew). $30 divided by $250 is 12%. Also if you scroll down more and screenshot the rest, you'll see I said $25 was fine after you tried to guilt trip me for asking for $30 on a loan (which still hasn't been paid back). And fwiw you only made this thread after your "mystery friend" finally got you to admit what the many small loans were really for.Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieMcFML
As far as charging more vig than you'd like on a sports bet, I'm not booking multi-thousand dollar sports bets for you (which you are picking, not me) as an act of charity. Sorry if there was confusion there. The fact that I won the bet is irrelevant.
But don't worry, I've already been informed that I'm not getting anything on Monday and that I'm "real classy" for posting here.
it sucks cause i thought we were legitimately friends, but you only care about getting an edge
confirmed plol is a jew
just wanna say plop isn't to blame here. He was nice enough to loan me money when I needed it and I am late paying him
regardless of terms or whatever
Get better soon, buddy. Rooting for you