*** OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Race Thread ***

[Sanlmar]

With all due respect, you are nitwits to waste one moment of time trying to imagine life 4 years hence.

You have no flippin idea. No one foresaw the financial crisis in 2008 or the populist movement it spawned. How Obama would rightly or wrongly issue a free pass to Wall Street.

No one except sidedish foresaw the stock market today.

I have spent a little time trying to nuke out the Fed Repo deal. Last night I revisited WeWork quickly. That disaster really is on par with Enron in scale. It’s a yuuuge real estate fiasco and a tale of a new wave of IPO’s that haven’t done so well.

You mix in the possibility the Overnight Repo deal has a whiff of bad commercial mortgage backed paper and we might have something we can work with down the road.

Life is random. Play the hand you are dealt. That was the Democrats gift. They knew Trump was unhinged. They had a huge advantage 3 years ago and they whiffed

[nightmarefish]

Bernies vision

the catalyst behind that post (i recognize youre speaking to the broader tone of my opinions, which i respect but im just making this one point in side bar) was watching the cnn debates where bernie was challenged to provide data and corroboration for his progressive agenda big ticket items; free health care and debt relief. bernie had nothing. he didnt list figures or percentages, he didnt list off any accredited finance gurus who backed his math. he had nothing but the sort of cantankerous old man hot takes about how 'things need to change', which is exactly why my bleeding heart liberal parents absolutely hate the idea of voting for him. its a combo of his total refusal to account for his claims and a total refusal to admit that failing by half to meet those goals is still a net win for the rust belt types you mentioned are so critical to the equation.

he might win with that sort of sleight of hand nonsense, it might be enough to get younger voters etc to the polls. but the fact that we dont have anyone on the stage who do better than that is weird to me. if bernie had just once said out loud "listen im not crazy, i recognize we might not be able to accomplish our goals 100%, but we can do better than this" then he would be a mortal lock. hes just incapable or unwilling to appear sensible.

Bernie has obviously never seen Tropic Thunder. Never go full retard, will always come home empty handed.

[MumblesBadly]

If your vision is Bernies vision or a truly progressive vision, the last thing you want is Biden winning imo.

i'm not sure i agree with this. if bernie somehow won -- while running on a platform of government-mandated health insurance -- the 2022 midterms would break harder red than we've seen in our lifetime. the midterms always go against the sitting president, but this would be extreme.

i'm not sure if biden instills that same sort of fears in the midwest

Blake, blake, blake. What are we gonna do with you??? Seriously, sir. I have countless times shown folks on this forum how the Google machine is useful to fact check ones recollection of information regarding historical events, but you materially failed to do so before responding to BCR’s comment. I’ve bolded above the failure in this case. Would you care to take another crack at challenging BCR’s comment after use the Google machine to check the historical record? I’ll even give you time to brush up on your Google machine skills if you’ve forgotten how.

[blake]

i'm not sure i agree with this. if bernie somehow won -- while running on a platform of government-mandated health insurance -- the 2022 midterms would break harder red than we've seen in our lifetime. the midterms always go against the sitting president, but this would be extreme.

i'm not sure if biden instills that same sort of fears in the midwest

Blake, blake, blake. What are we gonna do with you??? Seriously, sir. I have countless times shown folks on this forum how the Google machine is useful to fact check ones recollection of information regarding historical events, but you materially failed to do so before responding to BCR’s comment. I’ve bolded above the failure in this case. Would you care to take another crack at challenging BCR’s comment after use the Google machine to check the historical record? I’ll even give you time to brush up on your Google machine skills if you’ve forgotten how.

Mumbles, I want to know why you are intentionally posting in a style that you know gets everyone angry.

It actually irritates me that you have the ability to post in a less-obnoxious fashion (the way you did with FlyPaper) and are choosing not to.

That's what I'm taking away from this thread.

You may think it's funny to get the forum riled up to where they are all red repping you and repeatedly hassling me to ban you, but it is a pain in the ass for me, and I don't enjoy dealing with this.

Let me clear the air on some things.

1) I do NOT have a prop bet to drive my rep level to -1000. I said that in a vain attempt to get some core haters to stop gratuituously red repping my posts.

2) I DID get jiggity during the Vag Pic campaign to get to -100, but it seems very likely that this amplified the perception that I trolling the site.

3) I am NOT intentionally posting to rile up the forum, but my refusing to back down from the hate campaign by certain users likely gives ammunition for some users to paint my posting as such.

4) After reading your comments above about how you "respect" the older/NWP posters, why you started this section, and don't know why I can't post like Flypaper, I have come to realize that the title of this forum should instead be "NWP Users' Playground -- Proper Deference to Certain Members Required".

But, I guess you can't see that, Druff. Because despite the unrelenting number of red reps through at me some users since the Vag Pic campaign, I have yet to see you even *hint* at post restricting any of them despite the forum rules mentioning how such actions are not permitted.

So, I really don't want to expend any energy trying to defend myself regarding your question. Because it's clear to me now that you can't be unbiased about the matter given your affinity for the veteran/NWP days users.

And with that, I will say...

Au revoir

[blake]

mumbles has pushed me to never voting democrat again.

if you have anything in common with mumbles, you're living life wrong.

[blake]

test

[BCR]

Bernies vision

the catalyst behind that post (i recognize youre speaking to the broader tone of my opinions, which i respect but im just making this one point in side bar) was watching the cnn debates where bernie was challenged to provide data and corroboration for his progressive agenda big ticket items; free health care and debt relief. bernie had nothing. he didnt list figures or percentages, he didnt list off any accredited finance gurus who backed his math. he had nothing but the sort of cantankerous old man hot takes about how 'things need to change', which is exactly why my bleeding heart liberal parents absolutely hate the idea of voting for him. its a combo of his total refusal to account for his claims and a total refusal to admit that failing by half to meet those goals is still a net win for the rust belt types you mentioned are so critical to the equation.

he might win with that sort of sleight of hand nonsense, it might be enough to get younger voters etc to the polls. but the fact that we dont have anyone on the stage who do better than that is weird to me. if bernie had just once said out loud "listen im not crazy, i recognize we might not be able to accomplish our goals 100%, but we can do better than this" then he would be a mortal lock. hes just incapable or unwilling to appear sensible.

I don’t think he’d win. Biden looks well positioned to win the primary. I was assuming by sitting out you were referring to young mobilized progressives and candidates of that variety, even though I can’t think of any progressive candidate that would even be drawing live outside Bernie. He, at minimum, is old white and authentic which is kind of important to grab back voters in those states enamored with trump. I just meant if you want a truly progressive country, you get there quicker by trump failing than by Biden winning, so sitting out is logical if that’s your ultimate vision.

[sonatine]

the catalyst behind that post (i recognize youre speaking to the broader tone of my opinions, which i respect but im just making this one point in side bar) was watching the cnn debates where bernie was challenged to provide data and corroboration for his progressive agenda big ticket items; free health care and debt relief. bernie had nothing. he didnt list figures or percentages, he didnt list off any accredited finance gurus who backed his math. he had nothing but the sort of cantankerous old man hot takes about how 'things need to change', which is exactly why my bleeding heart liberal parents absolutely hate the idea of voting for him. its a combo of his total refusal to account for his claims and a total refusal to admit that failing by half to meet those goals is still a net win for the rust belt types you mentioned are so critical to the equation.

he might win with that sort of sleight of hand nonsense, it might be enough to get younger voters etc to the polls. but the fact that we dont have anyone on the stage who do better than that is weird to me. if bernie had just once said out loud "listen im not crazy, i recognize we might not be able to accomplish our goals 100%, but we can do better than this" then he would be a mortal lock. hes just incapable or unwilling to appear sensible.

I don’t think he’d win. Biden looks well positioned to win the primary. I was assuming by sitting out you were referring to young mobilized progressives and candidates of that variety, even though I can’t think of any progressive candidate that would even be drawing live outside Bernie. He, at minimum, is old white and authentic which is kind of important to grab back voters in those states enamored with trump. I just meant if you want a truly progressive country, you get there quicker by trump failing than by Biden winning, so sitting out is logical if that’s your ultimate vision.

word the only point in my post was that the lack of a compelling, competent campaign from anyone seems almost deliberate, simply for lack of a credible alternative.

[BCR]

I don’t think he’d win. Biden looks well positioned to win the primary. I was assuming by sitting out you were referring to young mobilized progressives and candidates of that variety, even though I can’t think of any progressive candidate that would even be drawing live outside Bernie. He, at minimum, is old white and authentic which is kind of important to grab back voters in those states enamored with trump. I just meant if you want a truly progressive country, you get there quicker by trump failing than by Biden winning, so sitting out is logical if that’s your ultimate vision.

word the only point in my post was that the lack of a compelling, competent campaign from anyone seems almost deliberate, simply for lack of a credible alternative.

I think the problem is it’s a 3 horse race and they’re all fucking old, which doesn’t help when needing a fluid answer. Like your example. If he says what you wanted to hear about clearly we won’t get all this, or how we pay for it. what’s the distinction between him and Warren at that point? She’s promising almost everything. He’s promising everything.

So there is an answer there that’s correct and nuanced and keeps a distance between him and her, but I don’t know that he’s mentally sharp enough to pull it out on a debate stage. They all have a bunch of number crunchers telling them who they need to appeal to and if it gets tricky, I’m not sure they don’t blank. These people are older than my dad and he’ll answer something with wisdom if I give him a minute, but it pressed, not so much.

It’s a bad spot for all of them because none are actually really good candidates. The dude with the enthusiasm needs black voters, but if he appeals directly to black voters as opposed all poor people, he loses that dude who kind of liked him and trump last election that is sick about only hearing about what ails inner cities. If Biden tries to court progressives, he loses the suburban independent.

I think they all know how to court their base, but all of them need their base plus part of someone else’s. Trump has been a fly in the ointment. Like Obama knew if I can do x, I win. I think with all of them it’s like if I do x, maybe I gain here and lose there. Add in age and it looks like this.

[sonatine]

word the only point in my post was that the lack of a compelling, competent campaign from anyone seems almost deliberate, simply for lack of a credible alternative.

I think the problem is it’s a 3 horse race and they’re all fucking old, which doesn’t help when needing a fluid answer. Like your example. If he says what you wanted to hear about clearly we won’t get all this, or how we pay for it. what’s the distinction between him and Warren at that point? She’s promising almost everything. He’s promising everything.

So there is an answer there that’s correct and nuanced and keeps a distance between him and her, but I don’t know that he’s mentally sharp enough to pull it out on a debate stage. They all have a bunch of number crunchers telling them who they need to appeal to and if it gets tricky, I’m not sure they don’t blank. These people are older than my dad and he’ll answer something with wisdom if I give him a minute, but it pressed, not so much.

It’s a bad spot for all of them because none are actually really good candidates. The dude with the enthusiasm needs black voters, but if he appeals directly to black voters as opposed all poor people, he loses that dude who kind of liked him and trump last election that is sick about only hearing about what ails inner cities. If Biden tries to court progressives, he loses the suburban independent.

I think they all know how to court their base, but all of them need their base plus part of someone else’s. Trump has been a fly in the ointment. Like Obama knew if I can do x, I win. I think with all of them it’s like if I do x, maybe I gain here and lose there. Add in age and it looks like this.

its just so weird to me that no one prepped bernie with a grownup answer despite his lack of one costing him his nom in 2014 as well. and all the candidates seem to have similarly huge blind spots. if one of them was just 10% less awful, they would shine like the sun.

[sonatine]

also am i crazy or is pete still in the mix because people are super proud of themselves for tolerating a gay openly and making a big show about it every chance they get.

[blake]

I think the problem is it’s a 3 horse race and they’re all fucking old, which doesn’t help when needing a fluid answer. Like your example. If he says what you wanted to hear about clearly we won’t get all this, or how we pay for it. what’s the distinction between him and Warren at that point? She’s promising almost everything. He’s promising everything.

So there is an answer there that’s correct and nuanced and keeps a distance between him and her, but I don’t know that he’s mentally sharp enough to pull it out on a debate stage. They all have a bunch of number crunchers telling them who they need to appeal to and if it gets tricky, I’m not sure they don’t blank. These people are older than my dad and he’ll answer something with wisdom if I give him a minute, but it pressed, not so much.

It’s a bad spot for all of them because none are actually really good candidates. The dude with the enthusiasm needs black voters, but if he appeals directly to black voters as opposed all poor people, he loses that dude who kind of liked him and trump last election that is sick about only hearing about what ails inner cities. If Biden tries to court progressives, he loses the suburban independent.

I think they all know how to court their base, but all of them need their base plus part of someone else’s. Trump has been a fly in the ointment. Like Obama knew if I can do x, I win. I think with all of them it’s like if I do x, maybe I gain here and lose there. Add in age and it looks like this.

its just so weird to me that no one prepped bernie with a grownup answer despite his lack of one costing him his nom in 2014 as well. and all the candidates seem to have similarly huge blind spots. if one of them was just 10% less awful, they would shine like the sun.

you think bernie explaining that massive tax hikes are needed to pay for his agenda would help him get elected?

[TheXFactor]

Democrats and the DNC would never nominate another woman for President or Vice President at least for now.

Every Democratic and Republican Presidential ticket with a woman on it either as President or Vice President has resulted in failure.

Bernie Sanders only ran for President last year because Elizabeth Warren decided not to. Bernie also encouraged Warren to run for President last year.

Still Bernie is right, a woman really can't win especially running against a cheater like Trump and women can't be trusted to vote for a woman candidate.

[sonatine]

its just so weird to me that no one prepped bernie with a grownup answer despite his lack of one costing him his nom in 2014 as well. and all the candidates seem to have similarly huge blind spots. if one of them was just 10% less awful, they would shine like the sun.

you think bernie explaining that massive tax hikes are needed to pay for his agenda would help him get elected?

first off im not convinced massive tax hikes are even close to enough. so lets make that clear.

but more importantly, because he's not coming at me with data science i just instinctively discard all of it has hacky nonsense.

but the thing is, im actually all for the one thing he hasnt put on the table but would be within arms reach if he takes the reins; compromise. if he eliminated interest from student loans, for example, and created a universal health care credit, that would be... incredible.

so i like bernie as a president.

[sonatine]

Democrats and the DNC would never nominate another woman for President or Vice President at least for now.

so what did they bribe warren with for stabbing bernie in the back? gotta wonder.

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

also am i crazy or is pete still in the mix because people are super proud of themselves for tolerating a gay openly and making a big show about it every chance they get.

and he's the only legit democratic candidate standing below the age of 70...

just fucking sad to see that in print...

[sonatine]

also am i crazy or is pete still in the mix because people are super proud of themselves for tolerating a gay openly and making a big show about it every chance they get.

and he's the only legit democratic candidate standing below the age of 70...

just fucking sad to see that in print...

seers if he was straight he'd be another kennedy.

[SPIT this]

Democrats and the DNC would never nominate another woman for President or Vice President at least for now.

so what did they bribe warren with for stabbing bernie in the back? gotta wonder.

Some beads. Little does she know, they're worthless

[v12cl]

the catalyst behind that post (i recognize youre speaking to the broader tone of my opinions, which i respect but im just making this one point in side bar) was watching the cnn debates where bernie was challenged to provide data and corroboration for his progressive agenda big ticket items; free health care and debt relief. bernie had nothing. he didnt list figures or percentages, he didnt list off any accredited finance gurus who backed his math. he had nothing but the sort of cantankerous old man hot takes about how 'things need to change', which is exactly why my bleeding heart liberal parents absolutely hate the idea of voting for him. its a combo of his total refusal to account for his claims and a total refusal to admit that failing by half to meet those goals is still a net win for the rust belt types you mentioned are so critical to the equation.

he might win with that sort of sleight of hand nonsense, it might be enough to get younger voters etc to the polls. but the fact that we dont have anyone on the stage who do better than that is weird to me. if bernie had just once said out loud "listen im not crazy, i recognize we might not be able to accomplish our goals 100%, but we can do better than this" then he would be a mortal lock. hes just incapable or unwilling to appear sensible.

I don’t think he’d win. Biden looks well positioned to win the primary. I was assuming by sitting out you were referring to young mobilized progressives and candidates of that variety, even though I can’t think of any progressive candidate that would even be drawing live outside Bernie. He, at minimum, is old white and authentic which is kind of important to grab back voters in those states enamored with trump. I just meant if you want a truly progressive country, you get there quicker by trump failing than by Biden winning, so sitting out is logical if that’s your ultimate vision.

Bernie has a giant heart, and no brain.

Makes for a good grandpa, but a terrible politician.

Somehow still looks better than the rest of the Dem field, which is exactly why they are running 50 candidates.

Brokered convention = Party insiders pick the favorite, and rob Bernie.

Somehow I hate his politics, but they have backed me into a corner of voting for him in the primary to spite the establishment.

Democratic Party is a walking contradiction.

Biden is a joke, no way in god's green earth he goes wire to wire. What a sucker bet, sorry Druff. It's Warren all the way, which is why Trump 2020 is the lock of all locks. Bet big, and borrow if you have to.

[MrTickle]

I don’t think he’d win. Biden looks well positioned to win the primary. I was assuming by sitting out you were referring to young mobilized progressives and candidates of that variety, even though I can’t think of any progressive candidate that would even be drawing live outside Bernie. He, at minimum, is old white and authentic which is kind of important to grab back voters in those states enamored with trump. I just meant if you want a truly progressive country, you get there quicker by trump failing than by Biden winning, so sitting out is logical if that’s your ultimate vision.

Bernie has a giant heart, and no brain.

Makes for a good grandpa, but a terrible politician.

Somehow still looks better than the rest of the Dem field, which is exactly why they are running 50 candidates.

Brokered convention = Party insiders pick the favorite, and rob Bernie.

Somehow I hate his politics, but they have backed me into a corner of voting for him in the primary to spite the establishment.

Democratic Party is a walking contradiction.

Biden is a joke, no way in god's green earth he goes wire to wire. What a sucker bet, sorry Druff. It's Warren all the way, which is why Trump 2020 is the lock of all locks. Bet big, and borrow if you have to.

On what grounds can you say Bernie has no brain?