Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[GrenadaRoger]

Well, here is the response you should be hearing.

"How can you say they aren't paying enough?" Because the benefits of government go mostly to the rich. Their income & wealth is protected from crime by the police, foreign invasion by the army, contracts enforced by the courts (they have more to protect than the poor, working class, middle class, even upper middle). And quite often, the business interest of the rich are protected from economic competition by laws, regulation and tariffs.

As an example of this last point, consider something we all are here are quite familiar with, internet poker Sheldon Adelson and his kind---you really think he didn't influence/benefit from the federal law in 2006 and the fed govt Black Friday 2010 crackdown? (talk to Bryan Micon about that btw)

And then you mention flat tax? Well, because of the loopholes, the tax rates have always been much more flat than it appears. Indeed, even when we had top marginal tax rates of 90% (pre-Regan), the effective tax rate was much flatter. Rich folks with income from investment in municipal bonds (tax free interest), or dividend paying stocks (capital gains taxed as 15% flat), or oil (depletion allowances based on production, not investment) or real estate (year of accelerated depreciation) all escaped the higher tax rates. The Regan Tax Cut and Trump Cut lowered tax rates but also cut out many deductions---netting the effect of some of the rate cuts back toward revenue neutral.

so my claim is we've actually had a much flatter tax system than it appears, and the benefits of government are disproportionately skewed towards the high income/wealthy: that is unfair and the reason for increased rates on higher incomes.

Your answer doesn't make much sense if you stop and really think about what you wrote.

There will never be complete equality in utilization of government services. They are open to everyone, but certain services are only needed by certain segments of the population, large and small. Frequent drivers are benefited most by the roads. Frequent fliers are most benefited by airports. Business owners utilize the court system the most (though not always to their benefit!) Lower income people use social services and public transportation far more. I disagree with your claim about the military and law enforcement. Those organizations benefit everyone. In fact, law enforcement has a tougher and more important job in the lower class neighborhoods, due to higher crime. Most people in lily-white, upper-class neighborhoods rarely need the police. It is absurd to say that government services "mostly benefit the rich", so therefore they should pay more.

But they are paying more, anyway! The top 20% of income earners are shouldering the vast majority of income tax revenue. Isn't that enough? I'm not arguing that the rich should pay the same amount as the poor. I'm arguing that they should pay the same percentage.

Well, it sounds like you are unfamiliar with what economists refer to as utility and surplus value.

But as you acknowledge, there is never equality in use/benefit from government services. My claim is the rich benefit far greater because of the protection government affords them--the direct type: police, fire, food purity, etc; and hidden types: barriers to direct competition through licensing, tariffs, regulation, etc--gives them more surplus value than poorer persons (more utility per dollar). In my opinion, graduating the tax rates more closely matches the benefit received/distributed (surplus value) to the tax (price) paid than does a flat tax system.

I don't expect you to agree.