Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
Quote Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied View Post

No, there are many cities with higher murder rates than Chicago. For Chicago to be repeatedly brought forth as an example makes me question your data. These are not towns with 1k people in them that had someone die. 2017 hasn't even finished yet, but apparently everyone on the right knows something about the murder rate there. Not sure whats going on with that.

As to why the murder rate jumped up so high in Chicago, I can't say. It will be interesting to see if it happens again. If the numbers you gave are true then it seems likely.

It isn't so much that I don't think cops going hard on suspected criminals doesn't reduce crime. I don't think I've ever argued otherwise. That doesn't make sense. What I believe is that government itself can perform criminal acts on citizens. People get caught up in the criminal justice system and never get out. Lots deserve it, but many don't. This is especially true in these areas where this "proactive policing" is such a big deal. When you're poor, those small things can really hurt you because you can't pay an attorney to get your cases sealed or whatever. Perhaps you can't afford a fine. All these stories are never counted. Infact, anyone who actually interviews people in a news piece like this will be considered a "liberal" media outlet. For SIMPLY interviewing the poor blacks etc that get fucked by this stuff. You *NEVER* see the rightwing rags interview these people or tell their story. It just doesn't sell to the rightwing mindset which needs to constantly be coddled.

Basically, some people, especially Republicans believe that cops are like angels and should be given all the authority they wish. People like myself, who are distrustful of undue power vehemently disagree. Republicans really don't want to acknowledge any of this, but some do.

Are you disputing that after a decade in the 400s, Chicago had 700+ murders last year and is in this ballpark again this year too? Do you think Wikipedia is making up numbers to support some right wing agenda?

AFAIK the recent dramatic increase in crime in cities like Chicago, Baltimore and St. Louis is not really something that anyone is disputing. The question is whether increased scrutiny of police that has lead to less proactive policing is the main reason for this. That I don't know for certainty, but evidence seems to be pointing in that direction.
I misread. I thought 2017 was the year it jumped up, so there wasn't even a full years data. If 2 years go by with 700 then that seems like a reasonable conclusion. That is not a surprise. I wonder how many smart liberals thought otherwise? It is actually a surprise that the magnitude of murders increased that much.

I would just like to know that police were actively still going after criminals and the likes and not just in some pout mode where they purposely overlooked things. How does it work anyway? Previously they would search suspects and so there were less guns around? Cops are a weirdly entitled lot, so hard to know what's going on.