Is there no end to this stuff? "Teaching math preserves white privilege"

[GambleBotsSatire]

Lets not forget that these looney libtard leftist losers have already stolen cis from math and redefined it as evil white man or something like that when everyone knows that cis(x) = cos(x) + i sin(x)

FUCKING LIBTARDTS!

[SrslySirius]

The problem here is that you can't just avoid these classes by simply majoring in STEM fields.

For example, when I was in college -- and mind you, we're talking the much less politically correct early 1990s -- I was required to take a Black Studies course, where the professor called the LA rioters "freedom fighters".

Eh, I think I'm okay with this. Universities don't need to be echo chambers. Maybe it's good for students to be exposed to different perspectives, even some of the loonier leftist ones. That's all part of the college experience.

[ErickAA]

the problem is these sort of people end up on elementary school boards and setting up curriculum for public schools. And when you become a parent who is putting their kid in a public school this is definitely something you have to worry about. My understanding is there has been a lot of "experimenting" in school districts teaching math and sciences in more politically correct ways, and predictably the results have been abysmal.

I disagree with you and BlunderMaker that the sky is falling in that regard. It's an issue, but an exaggerated one imo. We have a worse problem with religious fundamentalists on school boards politicizing history and science. My home state is infamous for this. I was taught abstinence-only sex ed and had science teachers making a case for creationism. But even as a kid I saw through that as bullshit, probably because kids' attitudes about these things are more strongly influenced by their parents.

Public school has a always been kind of a joke anyway. High school is not very challenging for bright students with serious academic aspirations. They will have to play catch up when they get to college regardless, and I don't see identity politics ever being an issue in higher education STEM departments. If some university churns out engineers that find thermodynamics problematic, Boeing will recruit elsewhere, and other schools will take its place as institutions to be taken seriously.

Yeah. I live in California so liberal experimenting is the concern. You are probably correct that if I lived in a red state the creationism stuff would probably be a bigger problem.

[Dan Druff]

The problem here is that you can't just avoid these classes by simply majoring in STEM fields.

For example, when I was in college -- and mind you, we're talking the much less politically correct early 1990s -- I was required to take a Black Studies course, where the professor called the LA rioters "freedom fighters".

Eh, I think I'm okay with this. Universities don't need to be echo chambers. Maybe it's good for students to be exposed to different perspectives, even some of the loonier leftist ones. That's all part of the college experience.

But they are echo chambers.

I'm not asking for universities to hire right-wing professors.

I'm asking for public universities to get the politicizing out of their coursework, and to avoid hiring radical professors in general.

I'm a big believer in being able to sign up for what you want.

If you want to pay for an education at a university full of left-wing loony professors, then by all means do so.

But if public funds are involved, you should be able to enroll and not feel the need to parrot back their left wing talking points in order to get a passing grade in certain required classes.

[SrslySirius]

But they are echo chambers.

I'm not asking for universities to hire right-wing professors.

I'm asking for public universities to get the politicizing out of their coursework, and to avoid hiring radical professors in general.

I'm a big believer in being able to sign up for what you want.

If you want to pay for an education at a university full of left-wing loony professors, then by all means do so.

But if public funds are involved, you should be able to enroll and not feel the need to parrot back their left wing talking points in order to get a passing grade in certain required classes.

I think it's kind of lame to insulate yourself like that in college, though I don't feel as strongly about it, and could change my view. But if that's a concern, you don't have to get stuck with that sort of overbearing professor. We have resources to avoid that now: http://www.ratemyprofessors.com

[ErickAA]

Eh, I think I'm okay with this. Universities don't need to be echo chambers. Maybe it's good for students to be exposed to different perspectives, even some of the loonier leftist ones. That's all part of the college experience.

But they are echo chambers.

I'm not asking for universities to hire right-wing professors.

I'm asking for public universities to get the politicizing out of their coursework, and to avoid hiring radical professors in general.

I'm a big believer in being able to sign up for what you want.

If you want to pay for an education at a university full of left-wing loony professors, then by all means do so.

But if public funds are involved, you should be able to enroll and not feel the need to parrot back their left wing talking points in order to get a passing grade in certain required classes.

On the topic of parroting back talking points to get good grades, I was a biology major but I had to take humanities prerequisites like everyone else. I actually found the easiest way to get a good grade on any essay (at that time) was to find some angle to tie in Marxism rhetoric, eg. class struggle, bourgeoisie vs proletariat, etc.

I guess the current version of this to to talk about white privilege, racism, misogyny, etc.

[sonatine]

You know what radicalizes professors?

Republicans slashing education funding, discrediting science, and promoting Faith-based everything.

[Dan Druff]

But they are echo chambers.

I'm not asking for universities to hire right-wing professors.

I'm asking for public universities to get the politicizing out of their coursework, and to avoid hiring radical professors in general.

I'm a big believer in being able to sign up for what you want.

If you want to pay for an education at a university full of left-wing loony professors, then by all means do so.

But if public funds are involved, you should be able to enroll and not feel the need to parrot back their left wing talking points in order to get a passing grade in certain required classes.

I think it's kind of lame to insulate yourself like that in college, though I don't feel as strongly about it, and could change my view. But if that's a concern, you don't have to get stuck with that sort of overbearing professor. We have resources to avoid that now: http://www.ratemyprofessors.com

Sites like RateMyProfessor are a nice resource, but sometimes you have no choice.

The reality in college, especially as a freshman, is that often required classes fill up fast, and you are happy to get any space in them at all. In many cases, you don't have the ability to professor shop.

I don't understand what you meant by, "It's kind of lame to insulate yourself like that in college".

I don't want insulation -- just a separation of political activism and education.

I suppose it might be interesting to go to a school which is a mixture of left AND right wing professors, but we know that never happens. At nearly all universities, it leans heavily left. There are a few Christian-type schools which lean right, but I don't think there's a single school where the political activism is essentially equal on both sides of the spectrum.

Honestly, professors should not be expressing their activism through their coursework, unless the student specifically wants to sign up for such a class.

I also feel that the general education requirements in colleges should be done away with anyway. There should be requirements for basic competency in English/writing and mathematics, but beyond that, it should really be about the major and associated coursework. Electrical Engineering students should be forced to take history courses, nor should arts students be required to pass science courses.

The problem is that the university experience today and the original conception of the university experience are very different. Many years ago, universities were attended by relatively few people, and were seen as a place where the scholarly would go to get a complete education. Nowadays, college is primarily attended as a means toward getting a diploma (and/or knowledge) which will open up doors to desired jobs, so these general ed courses are basically a waste of everyone's time and money. Again, if people wish to spend their own money taking such courses, that's great, but they shouldn't be required.

[Dan Druff]

You know what radicalizes professors?

Republicans slashing education funding, discrediting science, and promoting Faith-based everything.

Come on. Now you're just sounding ridiculous.

So you think university professors wouldn't be radical if Republicans were just more generous with education funding?

[sonatine]

You know what radicalizes professors?

Republicans slashing education funding, discrediting science, and promoting Faith-based everything.

Come on. Now you're just sounding ridiculous.

So you think university professors wouldn't be radical if Republicans were just more generous with education funding?

I think university professors are, by and large, deeply intelligent. And I think that's something that doesnt really sit well with you, considering the zeal with which they take the knife to a lot of AM talk radio right wing nonsense. Aka your bread and butter.

[Dan Druff]

Also, in regards to funding, it's considered evil by many to want to cut (or refuse to increase) education funding, but the situation is far more complicated than that.

Public schools (both elementary/secondary and college) are, in general, managed poorly when it comes to finances.

Everything is split up by "department", to where some areas are tremendously overfunded (and thus waste occurs), while others are tremendously underfunded. In some cases, this is due to restrictions on the funding itself, but in other cases the school simply allocates poorly, and the bureaucracy makes it nearly impossible to change.

Public institutions, in general, are money pigs. They will keep eating up any money you give them, will do little to cut costs, and then will keep demanding more. If you establish a pattern of giving more funding every time they ask for it, then the problem perpetuates.

I've seen situations in public schools where kids wait 25 minutes to get their lunch because they can't afford to hire a $10/hr lunch lady for 1-2 hours per day, but at the same time, expensive new textbooks are bought for all students to replace the ones bought two years ago. Or beautiful new buildings are constructed on campus when the old ones are functioning just fine.

Or... something I personally experienced in college, when I swiped my meal credit card at a cafeteria, and it turned out their boiler was broken and they couldn't serve me the hot food I paid for. It was prepaid so there was no way to get a refund. When I asked to simply let me go over to the other cafeteria where the boiler was working, I was told, "Sorry, they're on a different budget." When I pointed out that it was a matter of a single $7 meal, the guy actually said, "Yeah, well that's $7 out of our budget, and we're not paying for that."

As long as money given to these schools is mismanaged and over-compartmentalized, Republicans have every right to refuse to increase (or want to cut) funding.

[sonatine]

something I personally experienced in college, when I swiped my meal credit card at a cafeteria, and it turned out their boiler was broken and they couldn't serve me the hot food I paid for. It was prepaid so there was no way to get a refund. When I asked to simply let me go over to the other cafeteria where the boiler was working, I was told, "Sorry, they're on a different budget." When I pointed out that it was a matter of a single $7 meal, the guy actually said, "Yeah, well that's $7 out of our budget, and we're not paying for that."

god, im so sorry... i had no idea... now it all makes sense.

[gimmick]

Don't you have universities that have right-wing loony professors? Pay your tuition to one of those. I'm fairly sure that's how capitalism works. Oh and in case you have no such universities or they are all shit then i guess markets have decided.

Logical fallacy part ITT would be faulty generalization. Find a loony that "represents" something and then draw wide conclusions from it. The reason Druff doesn't see a problem with that is because he does it all the time.

[Dan Druff]

something I personally experienced in college, when I swiped my meal credit card at a cafeteria, and it turned out their boiler was broken and they couldn't serve me the hot food I paid for. It was prepaid so there was no way to get a refund. When I asked to simply let me go over to the other cafeteria where the boiler was working, I was told, "Sorry, they're on a different budget." When I pointed out that it was a matter of a single $7 meal, the guy actually said, "Yeah, well that's $7 out of our budget, and we're not paying for that."

god, im so sorry... i had no idea... now it all makes sense.

I knew you or someone else would come up with something sarcastic in response to that example.

It's something minor, yes, but I experienced it personally, and it's a perfect microcosm of the bigger funding issues going on at universities.

They couldn't let a hungry kid they screwed out of a meal go over to the other cafeteria, because it would mess up their precious budget by $7.

Do you think that was an isolated incident, or do you think that the strict budget-by-department methodology at these schools might be choking some departments while causing needless waste in others?

[Dan Druff]

Don't you have universities that have right-wing loony professors? Pay your tuition to one of those. I'm fairly sure that's how capitalism works. Oh and in case you have no such universities or they are all shit then i guess markets have decided.

Logical fallacy part ITT would be faulty generalization. Find a loony that "represents" something and then draw wide conclusions from it. The reason Druff doesn't see a problem with that is because he does it all the time.

Public funds pay for the radical left professors at these universities.

This isn't about capitalism.

I am not saying that anything here "represents" anything else.

Just that it disgusts me to know that these loony professors are being paid with tax dollars, and nothing is ever done about it.

[GambleBotsSatire]

what did you order 4 cheeseburgers and a side of lobster? i mean you could get a lot of food back then for $7

[gimmick]

Don't you have universities that have right-wing loony professors? Pay your tuition to one of those. I'm fairly sure that's how capitalism works. Oh and in case you have no such universities or they are all shit then i guess markets have decided.

Logical fallacy part ITT would be faulty generalization. Find a loony that "represents" something and then draw wide conclusions from it. The reason Druff doesn't see a problem with that is because he does it all the time.

Public funds pay for the radical left professors at these universities.

This isn't about capitalism.

I am not saying that anything here "represents" anything else.

Just that it disgusts me to know that these loony professors are being paid with tax dollars, and nothing is ever done about it.

Public funds would pay for the radical right professors. I don't see a problem with that. If by some miracle they don't exist then it's really not the problem of the left wing or the government.

And when you say public funds pay for something i'll just assume you mean they chip in a little bit. Where i'm from public funding actually covers the whole thing and then pays you on top of that to go to a university.

[Dan Druff]

Public funds pay for the radical left professors at these universities.

This isn't about capitalism.

I am not saying that anything here "represents" anything else.

Just that it disgusts me to know that these loony professors are being paid with tax dollars, and nothing is ever done about it.

Public funds would pay for the radical right professors. I don't see a problem with that. If by some miracle they don't exist then it's really not the problem of the left wing or the government.

And when you say public funds pay for something i'll just assume you mean they chip in a little bit. Where i'm from public funding actually covers the whole thing and then pays you on top of that to go to a university.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Right wing professors are not hired at public universities because the people doing the hiring are left wing themselves.

Public funding contributes a large portion of the tuition and other expenses at state universities. Students are not given any money to go to the university (or for expenses), unless they are on some form of financial aid, and usually those are just loans.

[sonatine]

god, im so sorry... i had no idea... now it all makes sense.

I knew you or someone else would come up with something sarcastic in response to that example.

It's something minor, yes, but I experienced it personally, and it's a perfect microcosm of the bigger funding issues going on at universities.

They couldn't let a hungry kid they screwed out of a meal go over to the other cafeteria, because it would mess up their precious budget by $7.

Do you think that was an isolated incident, or do you think that the strict budget-by-department methodology at these schools might be choking some departments while causing needless waste in others?

Honestly I agree with you regarding the luridly terrible financial management issues that plague a lot of colleges.

But we are talking about high school science classes with 50 year old textbooks and shit, not whether or not your hot meal refund was handled appropriately. And the reason a lot of those schools have no resources to give people basic, competitive educations is that your party aggressively fucks with them for not giving equal time to 'intelligent design', or claims 'the science and math curricula have been politicized' because they address global warming while refusing to give equal time to the garbage data being churned out by Koch sponsored hacks.

Again, not saying there isnt liberal insanity in the mix (graduating kids who cant fucking spell their own names etc) but if we are going to talk about left wing fringe politics in the educational system, lets at least acknowledge what its a response to.

[v12cl]

Public funds pay for the radical left professors at these universities.

This isn't about capitalism.

I am not saying that anything here "represents" anything else.

Just that it disgusts me to know that these loony professors are being paid with tax dollars, and nothing is ever done about it.

Public funds would pay for the radical right professors. I don't see a problem with that. If by some miracle they don't exist then it's really not the problem of the left wing or the government.

And when you say public funds pay for something i'll just assume you mean they chip in a little bit. Where i'm from public funding actually covers the whole thing and then pays you on top of that to go to a university.