***official apology thread***

[handicapme]

For the record I knew you would be surprised that a post like that came from me towards you because we are friendly and something like that would normally come from one of your trolls.

I'm not one of your trolls.
I think you're actually a pretty cool guy and would have meals / meet up with you again.
I hope you don't hold any of this against me.

With that said my whole point is regarding "Case B" what you call questionable. There should be NOTHING questionable. There is the internet and then there is real life. You shit on someone online, (fuck even in person someone says "you suck die in a grease fire") you really think that there is any justification to look up someone's work info or their brother's place of business? Like how is that normal.... so what if you're angry and do things in the "heat" of the moment. It's still fucking wrong man, not questionable.

For the record in your examples I think Lew is case C, but even if it was B I think the punishment should be the same. Never should it be okay to attempt and doxx / harrass someone's real life unless they try and fuck with yours first. Never.

Well, I disagree.

Cases B and C are very different, because doxxing/threatening people for fun is MUCH worse than doxxing because of an overreaction to a long time internet troll.

When one person trolls another for a long period of time, it becomes an irritant which can interfere with your ability to enjoy what you do online. It's especially frustrating when you're not anonymous and the troll is -- automatically giving the other person the upper hand. Also, in such a case, SEO things can come into play, where everything the troll says about you can be read by people in your real life when they google you, but nothing you say back to them can. So there's varying degrees of this.

The bottom line is that actions have consequences. If you set out to hassle some person for years on a forum -- even if you don't take it beyond that -- you can't cry victim when that person finally has had enough and puts out some effort to look you up. That's a case of "reap what you sow", and while I don't want users here doxxing each other, I also don't have a ton of sympathy for habitual trolls who end up biting off more than they can chew.

I have a much greater problem with people who fuck with innocents for fun.

I don't agree with this stance as I'm under the belief that real life and the internet should be just that. I've said my peace, we'll agree to disagree on this one buddy, hope no hard feelings.

[Lord of the Fraud]

Well, I disagree.

Cases B and C are very different, because doxxing/threatening people for fun is MUCH worse than doxxing because of an overreaction to a long time internet troll.

When one person trolls another for a long period of time, it becomes an irritant which can interfere with your ability to enjoy what you do online. It's especially frustrating when you're not anonymous and the troll is -- automatically giving the other person the upper hand. Also, in such a case, SEO things can come into play, where everything the troll says about you can be read by people in your real life when they google you, but nothing you say back to them can. So there's varying degrees of this.

The bottom line is that actions have consequences. If you set out to hassle some person for years on a forum -- even if you don't take it beyond that -- you can't cry victim when that person finally has had enough and puts out some effort to look you up. That's a case of "reap what you sow", and while I don't want users here doxxing each other, I also don't have a ton of sympathy for habitual trolls who end up biting off more than they can chew.

I have a much greater problem with people who fuck with innocents for fun.

I don't agree with this stance as I'm under the belief that real life and the internet should be just that. I've said my peace, we'll agree to disagree on this one buddy, hope no hard feelings.

FFS I'm fucking cringing here. Stop being so apologetic to Druff for each time you disagree with him. It is allowed you know.


(I think you're sound and hope you don't take my harsh observation too seriously)

[NaturalBornHustler]

Lew used to try to hit me up in the chat all the fucking time LOL. Kept claiming I was a shady J dupe or something it was all rather odd. I usually just ignored it. I'm not some hick from fucking Wisconsin or wherever he was from in east bumfuck. This thread has some serious lolz in it, fully convinced this dude is a psychopath now. If this (and this and that and this, that, this) aren't bannable offense(s) I don't know what is. Grow a fucking pair Druff.

[ftpjesus]

Lew would you be interested in using your stalking abilities for the good of the forum and figure out what happened to jewdonk?

I mean is it not obvious he's at sea? If he isn't on here working Todd he is working the microwave.

Nah. He was taking most of the summer off I believe both Druff and I are friends with Marty on FB and he hasn't posted in a couple weeks. Probably just living it up in Mexico and blowing up his roll on Pokerstars..

[ftpjesus]

How can you say "this isn't right, but I understand it"? Seriously? This is the type of shit people have accused you for years of doing because they fear trolling you would lead to you threatening them with personal info. I like you alot and you have done favors for me that you never had to do, but come on man how is this shit normal?

-Insert 3 months of trolling here
Valid and totally normal response per your post above: Let me dig up personal real life info on the person that they have never shared and threaten them or use it to troll them back.

Do you not see how that is fucked up? You cried foul when that crazy fuck 6tp started posting lies and shit about your real life and I defended you. However, what you are suggesting above is that you think it is okay to dig up real info on a person like Fuffler, all because they "troll" you, yet you gave CNN shit for doing the same!

I hope you don't take this post the wrong way and we stay friendly, but if you agree with your statement above then you are a hypocrite. This is the internet, there is no fucking reason to have a retaliatory response of digging up personal info and threatening to SEO/doxx them when they haven't done the same to you.

I knew someone would jump on this and post something like the above, but honestly I'm surprised it's you.

Why would you mention fluffer as an example? If anything, he is an example of how I did NOT do this. He's trolled me on and off for 5 years on this forum (basically whenever he wasn't banned), and I've never lifted a finger to identify him. I still have no idea who he is, other than the fact that he's from Australia.

So where did I say it was "okay" to dig up personal info on people for forum trolling?

My statement above was related to motivation one would have for doxing someone. I was separating what lew was apparently doing from other doxxings that can/have occurred on these sites.

I'll break it down very simply.

CASE A: John the Anonymous Forum Troll looks up your info, repeatedly calls you and harasses you, and posts all personal info he finds on you. In response, you look up John's information and post all of it. -- JUSTIFIED

CASE B: John the Anonymous Forum Troll constantly trolls you and trashes you every time you post on forums, but never attempts to bother you in real life. You ask John to stop, but he won't. After years of this, you finally tire of it, and research John's information. Upon finding it, you threaten to reveal it if John doesn't stop. -- QUESTIONABLE

CASE C: John the Anonymous Forum User never starts up with you, and you get along fine with him. One day you message John late at night, and he doesn't get back to you right away. Feeling slighted, you look up John's info and threaten him that he better respond in the future, or you're going to fuck with him and his family. -- PSYCHO


So you see, even if you want to argue that Case B is unjustified and wrong, it still pales in comparison to Case C. In Case B, at least John was taking years of hostile action (even if just on forums), and it's human nature to want to retaliate in some way. In Case C, poor John is getting doxxed and threatened for no other reason besides a power trip over another human being.

So there's a huge, huge, huge difference here.

In this particular case, if lewfather was looking up info on longtime trolls of his, I wouldn't be happy about it, but I would at least say, "Well, I understand his thought process. He's trying to get these people to leave him alone."

However, here it looks like he's picking people out of the blue and doxxing them for either fun or to assert some kind of power.

That's why I have a huge problem with this, and that's why I made the distinction.

BTW, I have had to referee certain situations between users where one sent threats of doxxing or physical violence to the other. In almost every case, it was a situation where the two had been fighting back and forth for awhile, and one finally just snapped. Knowing that emotions can run high and people can overreact, I always first try to get both people to simply agree to leave each other alone and ignore each other, because honestly that's the best solution.

When I'm dealing with forum users behaving badly, I always try to put myself in their shoes and think, "Can I understand why they did this?"

In lewfather's case. I can't understand it at all.

In the case of C its also how many people have ended up in prison.. Usually those Type C folks are the ones who are arrested and charged for stalking the rich and famous (IE the nut who broke in David Letterman's house etc). It crosses into the mentally unstable obsessed zone honestly.. Its unfortunate that some people are so obsessed with attention that they get it all twisted and that they are happy with negative attention then none at all.. On a side note Ive had some weird nasty IMs from Lew before (was over a year ago I'm sure by now) but I just ignored them because I felt like engaging him would just encourage the behavior further.

[lewfather]

All I can do is admit that I did it, apologize and agree to stop immediately. Also none of the information was ever actually used to hurt people's real life. Wasn't there someone who once got jewdonk fired?

[Brittney Griner's Clit]

Lewfather total chat box whore. I lits thought I was special.

[snowtracks]

All I can do is admit that I did it, apologize and agree to stop immediately. Also none of the information was ever actually used to hurt people's real life. Wasn't there someone who once got jewdonk fired?

If they can Free OJ they can Free LEW!


(100th post is for Willie and Will Donate $20 to the freeroll if Lew is free)

[Hockey Guy]

However, I'm afraid that this would simply delay the inevitable.

I would really like to understand what Lewfather was thinking when he did this, and I want to have at least the partial belief that he understands it was fucked up and that he shouldn't have done it.

If you believe it is delaying the inevitable, then cut him loose right now. Anything else is just wasting time.

Why did Lew do it? Because it was fun for him, because he got used to doing it, because he got away with it without consequence for a decade, because he was still well liked on here, because the pattern was allowed to continue for so long, so on and so forth. If you want any deeper answers than that, you are pretty much talking about psychiatry. The "why" you are looking for probably has zero to do with message boards or the people on them, and isn't likely something that can be summed up into a neat little post to put a bow on this shit. Who knows if Lew could even give an answer that would suffice anyway.

Like the NFL has done with its rules, judge the actions, not the intention. It is the only thing you can be sure about.

Pretty much every word here.

Even though I've stated earlier I had many late night chats with lew & never had a problem, obviously many others did & there's no denying they were very, very real. This digging up of personal info around here has to stop & giving lew a nap is a starting point.

If he's really apologetic, he'll return a better man & he'll be accepted back.

[big dick]

If you believe it is delaying the inevitable, then cut him loose right now. Anything else is just wasting time.

Why did Lew do it? Because it was fun for him, because he got used to doing it, because he got away with it without consequence for a decade, because he was still well liked on here, because the pattern was allowed to continue for so long, so on and so forth. If you want any deeper answers than that, you are pretty much talking about psychiatry. The "why" you are looking for probably has zero to do with message boards or the people on them, and isn't likely something that can be summed up into a neat little post to put a bow on this shit. Who knows if Lew could even give an answer that would suffice anyway.

Like the NFL has done with its rules, judge the actions, not the intention. It is the only thing you can be sure about.

Pretty much every word here.

Even though I've stated earlier I had many late night chats with lew & never had a problem, obviously many others did & there's no denying they were very, very real. This digging up of personal info around here has to stop & giving lew a nap is a starting point.

If he's really apologetic, he'll return a better man & he'll be accepted back.

When you gonna say sorry to me homo?

[WillieMcFML]

glad druff didn't draw this out and came to a quick and fair resolution

everyone feels so much better now that we know it was all just a big misunderstanding

[RealTalk]

[LarryLaffer]

glad druff didn't draw this out and came to a quick and fair resolution

everyone feels so much better now that we know it was all just a big misunderstanding

m

huge misunderstanding.

he never meant to harass me

[limitles]

I don't think many of us can comment on how ugly things got. One thing about fights they often escalate and you can end up doing shit way out of line.
Everyone's a grown up here and we don't need back room nastiness. So end it here. No more threats etc via pm for any member. If you really have a problem say it in front of everyone.

Lew and Willie are cornerstones here imo and I wouldn't like to see either permaband-banded or leave

[WillieMcFML]

glad druff didn't draw this out and came to a quick and fair resolution

everyone feels so much better now that we know it was all just a big misunderstanding

m

huge misunderstanding.

he never meant to harass me

JFC NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT YOU

lew has been doing this for YEARS before you ever began to shit-post here

and lew had been warned for YEARS to stop and never did until zod had the goods

i consider todd a friend, he's helped me out in many different ways over the years and never asked for a dime for it - but i think he's really shit the bed here

lew should have immediately been given a nap after not only disregarding druff's previous warnings, but also because he had ramped up his threats

then druff could have listened to arguments from lew and the community about whatever punishment lew should or shouldn't receive and have time to make a decision

but instead, lew can come and go as he pleases - who know's what info he's collecting while druff is waiting to make a decision

the bed stinks like shit, druff - and you just keep laying back down in it

[Dan Druff]

Well, this thread has ground to a halt, and will not continue to be useful.

I have come to a decision.

lewfather has engaged in behavior which can't be tolerated here. It has happened on numerous occasions over the years. There are others who have come forward with their own stories (all of whom are reliable people), but they told me that they didn't want their names brought up.

If I were to simply say, "lew, don't do it again or you're banned", that would be unfair to everyone else who has been banned from this site for much lesser offenses.

For example, Mintjewlips was just put on the sidelines for a long period of time for simply spamming the forum one day and writing some false/nasty/disgusting accusations about Hongkonger. While I feel Mintjewlips' ban was correct, what he did was overall much less severe than what lewfather has done.

In addition, lewfather already had his "one more chance" back in March, when I wrote to him privately about his behavior. I also mentioned it publicly, as reposted in this thread. Lewfather himself called my message a "wake up call", and in what seemed to be a heartfelt response, he promised he would make changes. That's why it was especially disappointing and frustrating to find out what he did to Brandon, not to mention Larry.

Furthermore, given all that Brandon does for this community, I find it especially offensive that lewfather was harassing him again. While Brandon does not own any part of PFA and does not have moderator powers here, I have stated for a long time that I want everyone to treat him with at least the same level of respect they would show me. This doesn't mean you have to like Brandon or be nice to him on the forum, but at the very least, you can't threaten him or try to make his life on PFA miserable.

In addition, most of the people harassed by lewfather were longtime respected members of the NWP/DD/PFA community, and some have stated both publicly and privately that they stopped logging in because of lewfather's harassment. When people lament that some of the good posters of old have sharply dropped their level of activity, this was one of the reasons why.

The bottom line is that this behavior was reprehensible, and it cannot be ignored or turned into yet another warning.

Therefore, lewfather has been banned for an unspecified about of time. This will be a full ban, meaning he will not be able to log in. I have also removed a dupe account of his, which I won't name at this time (it wasn't all that significant, and was not believed to be a unique user).

Lewfather can communicate with me, if necessary, via Facebook messenger, as we have already communicated there over the past week.

During the time lewfather is banned, if he attempts to harass any PFA member, his ban will become 100% permanent. In addition, at that point, the information found by Brandon will be shared and utilized in an appropriate manner. I hope it will not come to this, and I hope lewfather has learned not to do this crap anymore.

In addition, if lewfather creates dupe accounts to circumvent the ban, he will also be permabanned from PFA.

If I decide in the future to bring lewfather back to PFA, I will contact him and talk to him on the phone. I will get an idea whether I feel he will be able to come back and behave according to the rules here. If I feel he can, then I will restore his account at that time. However, he will be prohibited from contacting any user who wishes to be left alone, and any further bad behavior will also result in a permaban.

While banned, lewfather can obviously still listen to PFA Radio (no way to stop him anyway), and he can communicate with me during the show via the text phone number. However, he cannot come into the radio chat during the ban. He cannot call into the show during the ban.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

[SysOp]

i gotta feeling he's either gonna go on mega tilt or just never come back over this banning.

[WillieMcFML]

he won't go on mega-tilt, trust me

if he does he already knows what follows, in detail

at this point i really don't care whether he comes back or not, but i do hope he straightens his shit out

[SysOp]

Lew and I live very close to each other and we almost had some drinks at the casino one time.

[Dan Druff]

I legit would have met lewfather in Vegas, had we not missed each other by a few days.

So this definitely isn't personal. While there are some habitual trolls I'm not unhappy to ban when they fuck up here, lewfather isn't one of them. I was really hoping when I wrote to him in March that he would straighten himself out, and he could continue being a member of this community in good standing for years to come.