***official apology thread***

[snowtracks]

I believe Garrett threatened physical harm to Brandon, all I did was find an article about Larry that was for the public. And I didn't even post it, Larry did. Larry makes it sound like I sat here all day for months saying I was going to post it to the forum. Which isn't true at all. The funny thing is larry told me generally about the story and said I could never find it.

This is exactly why I am still very concerned.

That's not even close to "all you did".

We are talking about a pattern of behavior which dates back years.

I have to come to Lew's Defense here. I invoke the "Statute of limitations" It is the period of time specified in a statute of limitations passes, a claim no longer is culpable!
The limitation period generally begins when the plaintiff's cause of action accrues. In This Case 10 years of continuous harassment for some and 10 years of entertainment for others.

Therefor we must seek a more lenient punishment.

This court rules no Immediate Ban For Lew Father.
Probation.

[chinamaniac]

TYDE was god when this thread STARTED and he is still GOD 17 pages later/thread

[snowtracks]

TYDE was god when this thread STARTED and he is still GOD 17 pages later/thread

Unfortunately that God will be banned tooo.

[WillieMcFML]

This is exactly why I am still very concerned.

That's not even close to "all you did".

We are talking about a pattern of behavior which dates back years.

I have to come to Lew's Defense here. I invoke the "Statute of limitations" It is the period of time specified in a statute of limitations passes, a claim no longer is culpable!
The limitation period generally begins when the plaintiff's cause of action accrues. In This Case 10 years of continuous harassment for some and 10 years of entertainment for others.

Therefor we must seek a more lenient punishment.

This court rules no Immediate Ban For Lew Father.
Probation.

no offense, but you are "snowtracks", with 99 posts

no one knows shit about you other than you play every freeroll

stop being anonymous, put yourself out there where people know your real name and can doxx your family, and then tell me again how lew should not be banned

[LarryLaffer]

Serious query: Is there any real difference b/n what Lew did and what Garrett did?

I believe Garrett threatened physical harm to Brandon, all I did was find an article about Larry that was for the public. And I didn't even post it, Larry did. Larry makes it sound like I sat here all day for months saying I was going to post it to the forum. Which isn't true at all. The funny thing is larry told me generally about the story and said I could never find it.

ya fucking right.

you all but posted it yourself when your big snickers eating mouth decided to let everyone know about google image searching me (which leads to the public article.)

oh and then your hilarious tilt after others backed me up about your behavior, posting suicide videos for me, messaging me on FB to tell me "shits gonna get real"

yeah that was before Drexel stepped in and shut you the fuck up by the way.

just threatining me once (which you admitted to) is bad enough you lame.

what don't you get about your behavior that isn't fucked up.

and as for your canned forced response at the beginning of this turd thread,

i didn't even feel the need to even accept an apology bc you don't deserve that.

you'd still be tilting if Brandon didn't put a muzzle on you.

eat shit.

[Dan Druff]

lewfather, did you really tell Brandon that you wouldn't have stopped all of this if he hadn't dug up so much info on you and your family?

Because that's especially damning here.

I am STILL at a loss to explain why you did this stuff. I actually understand when people dig up info on those trolling them. Whether you agree with it or not, at least that course of action makes sense. Someone is harassing someone else (even if just on the forum), the person being harassed tires of it, and they seek to expose or get back at the person doing it. Again, I'm not saying it's necessarily right, but at least I understand it.

It appears to me that you would dig up info on members here for NO REASON, and then use it to threaten/harass them when they weren't responding quick enough (or at all) to your late-night messages. To my knowledge, none of these people were "forum enemies" of yours, nor had any of them done/said anything bad to you.

Simply apologizing is not enough here.

I need to understand what was going on. You can't just say "I was doing it for lulz", because I don't even see the lulz involved. Nobody saw you doing it, so you can't even say you were doing it for the schadenfreude of the rest of the user base. You were just quietly and very privately harassing numerous people over a period of years, including some this summer.

What also chaps my ass is the fact that I already sent you a serious message about this back in March, and not only did you fail to stop doing it, but you actually did it to one of my personal friends.

So no, we can't just go with "I apologized, drop this" at this point in time.

[lewfather]

Don't recall specifically saying it like that but of course it made me want to stop immediately.

[Dan Druff]

Don't recall specifically saying it like that but of course it made me want to stop immediately.

Okay, so putting that aside, please answer the rest of the concerns I raised above.

[handicapme]

Someone is harassing someone else (even if just on the forum), the person being harassed tires of it, and they seek to expose or get back at the person doing it.

How can you say "this isn't right, but I understand it"? Seriously? This is the type of shit people have accused you for years of doing because they fear trolling you would lead to you threatening them with personal info. I like you alot and you have done favors for me that you never had to do, but come on man how is this shit normal?

-Insert 3 months of trolling here
Valid and totally normal response per your post above: Let me dig up personal real life info on the person that they have never shared and threaten them or use it to troll them back.

Do you not see how that is fucked up? You cried foul when that crazy fuck 6tp started posting lies and shit about your real life and I defended you. However, what you are suggesting above is that you think it is okay to dig up real info on a person like Fuffler, all because they "troll" you, yet you gave CNN shit for doing the same!

I hope you don't take this post the wrong way and we stay friendly, but if you agree with your statement above then you are a hypocrite. This is the internet, there is no fucking reason to have a retaliatory response of digging up personal info and threatening to SEO/doxx them when they haven't done the same to you.

[Crowe Diddly]

This thread is getting retarded. Everyone wants answers, a pound of flesh, etc. Nobody is going to get answers they are satisfied with, we all know the crime, and we all know something has to be done.

Let's just shut this shit down now. Give Lew a 45-60 or 90 day nap. Longer than a month, far from lifetime. If he ever does it again, lifetime ban. No more "I need to understand why" because that's not a reachable goal. Deeds are done, let's do the punishment phase now, and move forward. If you were going to lifetime ban Lew it would have happened by now, so let's just go to the extended nap. Lew probably understands he need as to go for a while, right? He should, anyway, but more importantly, WE all know he has to go for a while, so lets just make that happen and get it over with.

[Lord of the Fraud]

Think Druff is basically asking Lew to post his medical records or its a ban.

[Dan Druff]

Someone is harassing someone else (even if just on the forum), the person being harassed tires of it, and they seek to expose or get back at the person doing it.

How can you say "this isn't right, but I understand it"? Seriously? This is the type of shit people have accused you for years of doing because they fear trolling you would lead to you threatening them with personal info. I like you alot and you have done favors for me that you never had to do, but come on man how is this shit normal?

-Insert 3 months of trolling here
Valid and totally normal response per your post above: Let me dig up personal real life info on the person that they have never shared and threaten them or use it to troll them back.

Do you not see how that is fucked up? You cried foul when that crazy fuck 6tp started posting lies and shit about your real life and I defended you. However, what you are suggesting above is that you think it is okay to dig up real info on a person like Fuffler, all because they "troll" you, yet you gave CNN shit for doing the same!

I hope you don't take this post the wrong way and we stay friendly, but if you agree with your statement above then you are a hypocrite. This is the internet, there is no fucking reason to have a retaliatory response of digging up personal info and threatening to SEO/doxx them when they haven't done the same to you.

I knew someone would jump on this and post something like the above, but honestly I'm surprised it's you.

Why would you mention fluffer as an example? If anything, he is an example of how I did NOT do this. He's trolled me on and off for 5 years on this forum (basically whenever he wasn't banned), and I've never lifted a finger to identify him. I still have no idea who he is, other than the fact that he's from Australia.

So where did I say it was "okay" to dig up personal info on people for forum trolling?

My statement above was related to motivation one would have for doxing someone. I was separating what lew was apparently doing from other doxxings that can/have occurred on these sites.

I'll break it down very simply.

CASE A: John the Anonymous Forum Troll looks up your info, repeatedly calls you and harasses you, and posts all personal info he finds on you. In response, you look up John's information and post all of it. -- JUSTIFIED

CASE B: John the Anonymous Forum Troll constantly trolls you and trashes you every time you post on forums, but never attempts to bother you in real life. You ask John to stop, but he won't. After years of this, you finally tire of it, and research John's information. Upon finding it, you threaten to reveal it if John doesn't stop. -- QUESTIONABLE

CASE C: John the Anonymous Forum User never starts up with you, and you get along fine with him. One day you message John late at night, and he doesn't get back to you right away. Feeling slighted, you look up John's info and threaten him that he better respond in the future, or you're going to fuck with him and his family. -- PSYCHO


So you see, even if you want to argue that Case B is unjustified and wrong, it still pales in comparison to Case C. In Case B, at least John was taking years of hostile action (even if just on forums), and it's human nature to want to retaliate in some way. In Case C, poor John is getting doxxed and threatened for no other reason besides a power trip over another human being.

So there's a huge, huge, huge difference here.

In this particular case, if lewfather was looking up info on longtime trolls of his, I wouldn't be happy about it, but I would at least say, "Well, I understand his thought process. He's trying to get these people to leave him alone."

However, here it looks like he's picking people out of the blue and doxxing them for either fun or to assert some kind of power.

That's why I have a huge problem with this, and that's why I made the distinction.

BTW, I have had to referee certain situations between users where one sent threats of doxxing or physical violence to the other. In almost every case, it was a situation where the two had been fighting back and forth for awhile, and one finally just snapped. Knowing that emotions can run high and people can overreact, I always first try to get both people to simply agree to leave each other alone and ignore each other, because honestly that's the best solution.

When I'm dealing with forum users behaving badly, I always try to put myself in their shoes and think, "Can I understand why they did this?"

In lewfather's case. I can't understand it at all.

[Dan Druff]

This thread is getting retarded. Everyone wants answers, a pound of flesh, etc. Nobody is going to get answers they are satisfied with, we all know the crime, and we all know something has to be done.

Let's just shut this shit down now. Give Lew a 45-60 or 90 day nap. Longer than a month, far from lifetime. If he ever does it again, lifetime ban. No more "I need to understand why" because that's not a reachable goal. Deeds are done, let's do the punishment phase now, and move forward. If you were going to lifetime ban Lew it would have happened by now, so let's just go to the extended nap. Lew probably understands he need as to go for a while, right? He should, anyway, but more importantly, WE all know he has to go for a while, so lets just make that happen and get it over with.

All of these are valid points, and honestly I considered just napping him for some time period, with the understanding that he could come back and then face a permaban if he were to do it again.

However, I'm afraid that this would simply delay the inevitable.

I would really like to understand what Lewfather was thinking when he did this, and I want to have at least the partial belief that he understands it was fucked up and that he shouldn't have done it.

I know someone who set fire to a boat dock at the age of 10 because he was upset that his dad had recently died. Of course, as a 10-year-old, he didn't connect the two, but simply had the urge to do something malicious and destructive, and then actually did it.

That was over 30 years ago, and the guy lived out a crime-free life as an adult, and has a happy marriage. Knowing him today, you'd never know that he was the 10-year-old who wanted to burn an entire dock down.

I like the lewfather the poster, lewfather the radio listener/chatter, and even lewfather the guy who PMs me about random stuff. I don't like lewfather the random cyberbully and doxxer. If I could be at least semi-confident that the last version of him was going away, I would feel a lot better about him being part of this community going forward.

[handicapme]

How can you say "this isn't right, but I understand it"? Seriously? This is the type of shit people have accused you for years of doing because they fear trolling you would lead to you threatening them with personal info. I like you alot and you have done favors for me that you never had to do, but come on man how is this shit normal?

-Insert 3 months of trolling here
Valid and totally normal response per your post above: Let me dig up personal real life info on the person that they have never shared and threaten them or use it to troll them back.

Do you not see how that is fucked up? You cried foul when that crazy fuck 6tp started posting lies and shit about your real life and I defended you. However, what you are suggesting above is that you think it is okay to dig up real info on a person like Fuffler, all because they "troll" you, yet you gave CNN shit for doing the same!

I hope you don't take this post the wrong way and we stay friendly, but if you agree with your statement above then you are a hypocrite. This is the internet, there is no fucking reason to have a retaliatory response of digging up personal info and threatening to SEO/doxx them when they haven't done the same to you.

I knew someone would jump on this and post something like the above, but honestly I'm surprised it's you.

Why would you mention fluffer as an example? If anything, he is an example of how I did NOT do this. He's trolled me on and off for 5 years on this forum (basically whenever he wasn't banned), and I've never lifted a finger to identify him. I still have no idea who he is, other than the fact that he's from Australia.

So where did I say it was "okay" to dig up personal info on people for forum trolling?

My statement above was related to motivation one would have for doxing someone. I was separating what lew was apparently doing from other doxxings that can/have occurred on these sites.

I'll break it down very simply.

CASE A: John the Anonymous Forum Troll looks up your info, repeatedly calls you and harasses you, and posts all personal info he finds on you. In response, you look up John's information and post all of it. -- JUSTIFIED

CASE B: John the Anonymous Forum Troll constantly trolls you and trashes you every time you post on forums, but never attempts to bother you in real life. You ask John to stop, but he won't. After years of this, you finally tire of it, and research John's information. Upon finding it, you threaten to reveal it if John doesn't stop. -- QUESTIONABLE

CASE C: John the Anonymous Forum User never starts up with you, and you get along fine with him. One day you message John late at night, and he doesn't get back to you right away. Feeling slighted, you look up John's info and threaten him that he better respond in the future, or you're going to fuck with him and his family. -- PSYCHO


So you see, even if you want to argue that Case B is unjustified and wrong, it still pales in comparison to Case C. In Case B, at least John was taking years of hostile action (even if just on forums), and it's human nature to want to retaliate in some way. In Case C, poor John is getting doxxed and threatened for no other reason besides a power trip over another human being.

So there's a huge, huge, huge difference here.

In this particular case, if lewfather was looking up info on longtime trolls of his, I wouldn't be happy about it, but I would at least say, "Well, I understand his thought process. He's trying to get these people to leave him alone."

However, here it looks like he's picking people out of the blue and doxxing them for either fun or to assert some kind of power.

That's why I have a huge problem with this, and that's why I made the distinction.

BTW, I have had to referee certain situations between users where one sent threats of doxxing or physical violence to the other. In almost every case, it was a situation where the two had been fighting back and forth for awhile, and one finally just snapped. Knowing that emotions can run high and people can overreact, I always first try to get both people to simply agree to leave each other alone and ignore each other, because honestly that's the best solution.

When I'm dealing with forum users behaving badly, I always try to put myself in their shoes and think, "Can I understand why they did this?"

In lewfather's case. I can't understand it at all.

For the record I knew you would be surprised that a post like that came from me towards you because we are friendly and something like that would normally come from one of your trolls.

I'm not one of your trolls.
I think you're actually a pretty cool guy and would have meals / meet up with you again.
I hope you don't hold any of this against me.

With that said my whole point is regarding "Case B" what you call questionable. There should be NOTHING questionable. There is the internet and then there is real life. You shit on someone online, (fuck even in person someone says "you suck die in a grease fire") you really think that there is any justification to look up someone's work info or their brother's place of business? Like how is that normal.... so what if you're angry and do things in the "heat" of the moment. It's still fucking wrong man, not questionable.

For the record in your examples I think Lew is case C, but even if it was B I think the punishment should be the same. Never should it be okay to attempt and doxx / harrass someone's real life unless they try and fuck with yours first. Never.

[Dan Druff]

For the record I knew you would be surprised that a post like that came from me towards you because we are friendly and something like that would normally come from one of your trolls.

I'm not one of your trolls.
I think you're actually a pretty cool guy and would have meals / meet up with you again.
I hope you don't hold any of this against me.

With that said my whole point is regarding "Case B" what you call questionable. There should be NOTHING questionable. There is the internet and then there is real life. You shit on someone online, (fuck even in person someone says "you suck die in a grease fire") you really think that there is any justification to look up someone's work info or their brother's place of business? Like how is that normal.... so what if you're angry and do things in the "heat" of the moment. It's still fucking wrong man, not questionable.

For the record in your examples I think Lew is case C, but even if it was B I think the punishment should be the same. Never should it be okay to attempt and doxx / harrass someone's real life unless they try and fuck with yours first. Never.

Well, I disagree.

Cases B and C are very different, because doxxing/threatening people for fun is MUCH worse than doxxing because of an overreaction to a long time internet troll.

When one person trolls another for a long period of time, it becomes an irritant which can interfere with your ability to enjoy what you do online. It's especially frustrating when you're not anonymous and the troll is -- automatically giving the other person the upper hand. Also, in such a case, SEO things can come into play, where everything the troll says about you can be read by people in your real life when they google you, but nothing you say back to them can. So there's varying degrees of this.

The bottom line is that actions have consequences. If you set out to hassle some person for years on a forum -- even if you don't take it beyond that -- you can't cry victim when that person finally has had enough and puts out some effort to look you up. That's a case of "reap what you sow", and while I don't want users here doxxing each other, I also don't have a ton of sympathy for habitual trolls who end up biting off more than they can chew.

I have a much greater problem with people who fuck with innocents for fun.

[jsearles22]

For the record I knew you would be surprised that a post like that came from me towards you because we are friendly and something like that would normally come from one of your trolls.

I'm not one of your trolls.
I think you're actually a pretty cool guy and would have meals / meet up with you again.
I hope you don't hold any of this against me.

With that said my whole point is regarding "Case B" what you call questionable. There should be NOTHING questionable. There is the internet and then there is real life. You shit on someone online, (fuck even in person someone says "you suck die in a grease fire") you really think that there is any justification to look up someone's work info or their brother's place of business? Like how is that normal.... so what if you're angry and do things in the "heat" of the moment. It's still fucking wrong man, not questionable.

For the record in your examples I think Lew is case C, but even if it was B I think the punishment should be the same. Never should it be okay to attempt and doxx / harrass someone's real life unless they try and fuck with yours first. Never.

Well, I disagree.

Cases B and C are very different, because doxxing/threatening people for fun is MUCH worse than doxxing because of an overreaction to a long time internet troll.

When one person trolls another for a long period of time, it becomes an irritant which can interfere with your ability to enjoy what you do online. It's especially frustrating when you're not anonymous and the troll is -- automatically giving the other person the upper hand. Also, in such a case, SEO things can come into play, where everything the troll says about you can be read by people in your real life when they google you, but nothing you say back to them can. So there's varying degrees of this.

The bottom line is that actions have consequences. If you set out to hassle some person for years on a forum -- even if you don't take it beyond that -- you can't cry victim when that person finally has had enough and puts out some effort to look you up. That's a case of "reap what you sow", and while I don't want users here doxxing each other, I also don't have a ton of sympathy for habitual trolls who end up biting off more than they can chew.

I have a much greater problem with people who fuck with innocents for fun.

So you have a huge problem with Lew; you essentially labeled him a psycho. What could he possibly offer up at this point to satisfy you? Why drag your feet? Off with his head

[Crowe Diddly]

However, I'm afraid that this would simply delay the inevitable.

I would really like to understand what Lewfather was thinking when he did this, and I want to have at least the partial belief that he understands it was fucked up and that he shouldn't have done it.

If you believe it is delaying the inevitable, then cut him loose right now. Anything else is just wasting time.

Why did Lew do it? Because it was fun for him, because he got used to doing it, because he got away with it without consequence for a decade, because he was still well liked on here, because the pattern was allowed to continue for so long, so on and so forth. If you want any deeper answers than that, you are pretty much talking about psychiatry. The "why" you are looking for probably has zero to do with message boards or the people on them, and isn't likely something that can be summed up into a neat little post to put a bow on this shit. Who knows if Lew could even give an answer that would suffice anyway.

Like the NFL has done with its rules, judge the actions, not the intention. It is the only thing you can be sure about.

[adamantium]

I know Lew pretty well and talk to him regularly. Most of his "doxxing" is just bluffing , still not ok but people do/say stupid shit when they drink.
And that is the major problem for Lew because he has a drinking problem.
He has been nothing but very friendly to me and we have had many $ changing hands, always trustworthy, hell even my wife think he is a funny dude.
Dont really know what he has done to srsly, drexel or larry but I do know he was not sober doing it.

[Deal]

Paging The_Shrink for official diagnosis but perhaps Lew just hates himself and doesn't realize it yet.

[YUUP]

It's like a cat playing with a mouse,Lew is getting banned but Druff is toying with him .

Time to bite his head of Druff, enough already.