Originally Posted by hongkonger
It was doing well until Trump took over, then he completely fucked it up.
I'm sure it was going down, trump probly just took the only route that would have paid off: get absorbed by the NFL
You don't need 60 votes, a simple majority is all that's required to pass legislation. Of course you do need 60 votes to overcome a filibuster, but the filibuster is a parliamentary procedure and not a constitutional requirement. This means that its a rule of the senate and can be changed at any time.You sure about that? I read somewhere that the gop worked it out so they only need 51 votes and not the usual 60
Scumbag fucks that they are
I believe that the filibuster is an important tool for the minority party, and I don't agree with Harry Reid and the D's decision to change the judicial filibuster rules in 2013. They did though and now they have to live with the consequences.
Time will tell if the R's change the rules regarding the legislative filibuster, I'd prefer they didn't as it will bite them in the ass as certainly as it did the D's.
The NFL didn't absorb any of the USFL.
I'm sure it was going down, trump probly just took the only route that would have paid off: get absorbed by the NFL
HILLARY WON
The NFL didn't absorb any of the USFL.
LMAO, yes hongkonger that is correct
lol wut?Druff, I fully agree with your first point, especially that costs need to be controlled. But your second point is false. Shifting the cost onto those with the most political power to rein in those costs is the only way to break the political stranglehold that the interest groups who are currently benefiting the most of poor cost controls hae over the system. Germany essentially went through that struggle in the late 1800s when Bismarck pushed through socializing health care for the populous. The tax burden was borne mostly by the wealthy, and Germany eventually developed a system of competition among not-for-profit insurance funds and state regulated price controls that results in comparable or better health outcomes statistically versus the US at abiut 2/3rds the overall cost.
And because the "1%" in the US financially benefit the most from the healthcare system we have in the US given the lack of price controls and anti-trust exemptions for the AMA and hospitals, as well as big pharma exempt from price negotiations with Medicare, the "1%" need to face more to the cost of the system in order to motivate them to appropriately reform it to bring costs more in line with the rest of the developed world.
You're really comparing 2017 America to late 1800s Germany?
Come on... that's not even worth a response.
Regarding your second point, I don't even know what you're trying to say. Tax the top 1% more for health care, so they have motivation to bring costs down? Yeah, that's not going to work.
The problem with the costs issue is that nobody wants to talk about it. That's because the fix is fairly tough. Sure, there are some quick-and-easy fixes, such as opening up prescription drugs to competition from other first-world countries (Republicans proposed this) and erasing the state borders when shopping for individual health insurance (again proposed by Republicans).
But that only solves a small part of a much greater problem, and neither party wants to put the effort or work into really bearing down and seriously reforming how health care is billed and priced.
Right now we have a horrible, opaque system where you don't know how much anything costs when you're going to the doctor, and often you don't even know which services you're getting.
You go to the doctor, you do as you're told, and you get the bad news in the bill weeks or months later. Even if you attempt to find out how much it will cost, you often can't or aren't allowed to find out.
There is nothing else like it in the American marketplace. You don't know what you're buying, you don't know how much it costs, and yet you're legally responsible for paying the bill when it comes!
What a racket!
Amazingly, nobody seems to give a shit about reforming this, and all we hear about health care is "preventing you from having to pay for other people's unhealthy lifestyles" (Republicans) or "making sure everyone can get the coverage they need" (Democrats). Both of these talking points sound (and are) valid, but they both miss the MAJOR factor as to why health care is such a mess in this country.
TODGES PARAGRAPH GAME ON FLEEK
Canada's provincially based Medicare systems are cost-effective partly because of their administrative simplicity. In each province each doctor handles the insurance claim against the provincial insurer. There is no need for the person who accesses healthcare to be involved in billing and reclaim.
Competitive practices such as advertising are kept to a minimum, thus maximizing the percentage of revenues that go directly towards care.
In general, costs are paid through funding from income Virtually all essential basic care is covered, including maternity. Coverage is not affected by loss or change of jobs and there are no lifetime limits or exclusions for pre-existing conditions.
Drug prices are negotiated with suppliers by the federal government to control costs.
A reduction in physician salaries was feared as a long-term result of government-run healthcare. However, by the beginning of the 21st century, medical professionals were again among Canada's top earners.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the U.S. spending on pharmaceutical commercials is up 60%.
"In the U.S. there is no mechanism in place for some kind of price control. There are no standards for billing, there's money to be made for anything and everything"
A $10,000 MRI bill in the U.S. would be approximately $150-$200 in Japan and cancer drugs, some 15 years old are now 4 times the original cost in the U.S."
Elisabeth Rosenthal
An American Sickness
Hospitals and insurance companies, unrestrained in the U.S. have effectively become monopolies. Prices hospitals and pharmacuetical companies charge are market based.
The fear of anything labeled socialism in the U.S. is the problem because your unregulated neighbour is fucking you over legally while your representatives are paid to keep it that way.
"The founding fathers did not like the idea of the tyranny of the majority ruling the country"
Dan Druff
“I don't know what weapons World War III will be fought with, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”
Albert Einstein
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today if a gift
and that is why it's called the present"
Eleanor Roosevelt
Deleted
3 basic things would all take of it the most ease and fairness as possible BUT t he fucken globalist Republicans won't even consider it.. DIKS!!
1. COMPETE NATIONALLY ACROSS STATE LINES.
2.NEGOTIATE DRUG PRICES.
3. ALLOW INDIVIDUAL,S TO JOIN GROUPS.
THATS FUCKEN IT.. CASE CLOSED..
on the back end there must be a 6 month period for pre conditions and
Medicaid block Grant to balance cost. Medicaid is given out too freely and the responsibility is in the working class. Put some personal responsibility and the rule of law back in that system.
allow people to purchase catastrophic only insurance which will be very very cost effective..
ITS NOT ThAT FUCKEN DIFFICULT YOU DOUCH BAG PAUL RYAN.
This is the kind of crap you get when you allow Cons. to frame the debate.
This issue is whether you want a greedy, corrupt, ruthless middle man (ins. companies) to stand between you and life saving healthcare. This is the era of Citizens United so these ins. companies can and have been bribing our elected officials.
THEY CAN LEGALLY BRIBE OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS! DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS MEANS? It means they can do whatever the fuck they want and they have a financial incentive to deny you medical coverage.
What could possibly go wrong....
Speaking of legally bribing our elected officials, lets see how much the ins. companies paid to repeal Obamacare.
The list is to big, here's just one. Citizens United ruins everything!
http://resistancereport.com/class-wa...ans-trumpcare/
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas)
Louie Gohmert has made a number of incendiary remarks about the initial version of Trumpcare. In an op-ed for The Hill, Dr. John R. Coppedge singularly blamed Gohmert for the bill’s failure. Nonetheless, he was swayed to vote in favor of the latest House bill to overhaul the U.S. healthcare system. Throughout his career, Rep. Gohmert has received more than $484,000 from “Health professionals,” making him one of the industry’s favorite Republicans in Congress. And on March 13 of this year, Gohmert received a $5,000 check from the Texas Spine and Joint Hospital.
Yeah I guess we're supposed to be like Druff and pretend they did this for the American people and pay no attn to to the massive bribes being paid.
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...eath-in-the-us
Shocking factoid
Medical Errors Are Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S.
No big deal when you can legally bribe lawmakers.Medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the U.S., after heart disease and cancer, causing at least 250,000 deaths every year, according to an analysis out Tuesday indicating that patient safety efforts fall far short.
"People don't just die from heart attacks and bacteria, they die from system-wide failings and poorly coordinated care," says the study's lead author, Dr. Martin Makary, a professor of surgery and health policy at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. "It's medical care gone awry.
"The magnitude of the death toll – roughly 10 percent of U.S. deaths annually – is striking coming, as it does, in an era dominated by efforts to reform the health system to ensure safe, high quality, high-value medical care. Patient safety efforts have failed to gain much traction, Makary says, because there's no systematic effort to study medical errors or to put effective safeguards in place.
Last edited by FPS_Russia; 05-08-2017 at 02:04 AM.
I've always been curious why Canadians are so obsessed with US politics. Why is that?The NFL didn't absorb any of the USFL.
Il take an Insurance company over a government anyway.
The v a. Anyone??
The stuff you've written here that is below my last bolded paragraph above speaks exactly to the issue of why the rich need to be financially motivated to address the costs of health care separate from the Republicans "personal responsibility" talking points. Because right now, the rich in the US are, on balance, heavily supporting the GOP in Congress to do quick fixes that mostly benefit themselves (e.g. eliminating the additional taxes they face due to Obamacare). I mean, just look at how happy those House GOPers are over the succeasful House vote over their latest iteration of the AHCA.lol wut?
You're really comparing 2017 America to late 1800s Germany?
Come on... that's not even worth a response.
The difference in time periods is to point out how much longer German politics has been wrestling with keeping their respective populations satisfied enough with their health care opportunity. At that time, Bismarck was concerned that skilled workers would bolt from Germany given prospects to better themselves elsewhere, namely America, given how lopsided the German economy was at that time favoring the wealthy. And in the long-run, he was correct. While many German nationals immigrated to America in the early and middle 1800s, not as many did so after Bismarck was able to push through economic reforms, such as socialized medicine.
And in the long-run, it benefited the German economy greatly. I've met very few German nationals who have emigrated to the US to seek better opportunities. And the German economy bears a much lower burden on GDP for health care than the US, and that helps German businesses compete against US ones.
Regarding your second point, I don't even know what you're trying to say. Tax the top 1% more for health care, so they have motivation to bring costs down? Yeah, that's not going to work.
This is basic political theory. The high costs of our health care system is protected by powerful interests. The only way to overcome their political lock on the system is to get a more powerful block of interested parties to pish through necessary reforms. And given how much influence the rich have on our political system, nothing will e done to address how jacked up healtch care costs are unless they are sufficiently motovstes to donso. And I hihjly doint that enough of them will do so purely more moral reasons.
The problem with the costs issue is that nobody wants to talk about it. That's because the fix is fairly tough. Sure, there are some quick-and-easy fixes, such as opening up prescription drugs to competition from other first-world countries (Republicans proposed this) and erasing the state borders when shopping for individual health insurance (again proposed by Republicans).
But that only solves a small part of a much greater problem, and neither party wants to put the effort or work into really bearing down and seriously reforming how health care is billed and priced.
Right now we have a horrible, opaque system where you don't know how much anything costs when you're going to the doctor, and often you don't even know which services you're getting.
You go to the doctor, you do as you're told, and you get the bad news in the bill weeks or months later. Even if you attempt to find out how much it will cost, you often can't or aren't allowed to find out.
There is nothing else like it in the American marketplace. You don't know what you're buying, you don't know how much it costs, and yet you're legally responsible for paying the bill when it comes!
What a racket!
Amazingly, nobody seems to give a shit about reforming this, and all we hear about health care is "preventing you from having to pay for other people's unhealthy lifestyles" (Republicans) or "making sure everyone can get the coverage they need" (Democrats). Both of these talking points sound (and are) valid, but they both miss the MAJOR factor as to why health care is such a mess in this country.
And do you honestly believe it's because they care about how much more efficient the health care system will be for the majority of their constituents back home? Fuck, No! They are happy for the rollback of the extra taxes The rich have to pay under Obamacare.
But they probably have ignored the interests of the masses at their political peril, as two key components of their bill is NOT popular with a majority of ordinary folks.
Poll: Half of voters oppose pre-existing condition opt-out for states
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-hal...ut-for-states/
Poll: Majority of voters in 13 GOP districts oppose defunding Planned Parenthood
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...unding-planned
_____________________________________________
Canada's provincially based Medicare systems are cost-effective partly because of their administrative simplicity. In each province each doctor handles the insurance claim against the provincial insurer. There is no need for the person who accesses healthcare to be involved in billing and reclaim.
Competitive practices such as advertising are kept to a minimum, thus maximizing the percentage of revenues that go directly towards care.
In general, costs are paid through funding from income Virtually all essential basic care is covered, including maternity. Coverage is not affected by loss or change of jobs and there are no lifetime limits or exclusions for pre-existing conditions.
Drug prices are negotiated with suppliers by the federal government to control costs.
A reduction in physician salaries was feared as a long-term result of government-run healthcare. However, by the beginning of the 21st century, medical professionals were again among Canada's top earners.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the U.S. spending on pharmaceutical commercials is up 60%.
"In the U.S. there is no mechanism in place for some kind of price control. There are no standards for billing, there's money to be made for anything and everything"
A $10,000 MRI bill in the U.S. would be approximately $150-$200 in Japan and cancer drugs, some 15 years old are now 4 times the original cost in the U.S."
Elisabeth Rosenthal
An American Sickness
Hospitals and insurance companies, unrestrained in the U.S. have effectively become monopolies. Prices hospitals and pharmacuetical companies charge are market based.
The fear of anything labeled socialism in the U.S. is the problem because your unregulated neighbour is fucking you over legally while your representatives are paid to keep it that way.
We agree on the goal -- bringing costs down.
We also agree that costs for procedures, tests, and drugs in the US are often outrageous (especially tests and drugs).
Unfortunately, your simple copy/pasted explanation on how to fix it will not work here.
First off, you need to take that article with a grain of salt, as even its statistics are wrong. I've never seen an MRI anywhere close to $10,000. I could go have an MRI today without insurance for under $600.
There are plenty of examples of horrible cost abuses/gougings in the US system, but that one is stated highly inaccurately, and I imagine that was intentional. So it's hard to take anything that writer says seriously.
Anyway, getting to the meat of the points raised in your post:
This is the same left-wing nonsense I hear over and over in order to justify socialized medicine, and it's just not the huge factor it's made out to be.Canada's provincially based Medicare systems are cost-effective partly because of their administrative simplicity. In each province each doctor handles the insurance claim against the provincial insurer. There is no need for the person who accesses healthcare to be involved in billing and reclaim. Competitive practices such as advertising are kept to a minimum, thus maximizing the percentage of revenues that go directly towards care.
Is money wasted on middleman insurance administrative and marketing expenses? Yes.
Is that the reason our costs are so high in the US? Not at all. The administrative/marketing expenses are a drop in the bucket compared to the simply overpriced prices for care in the US.
Simply put, the price charged by medical providers (doctors, hospitals, etc) has nothing to do with insurance company overhead. THOSE are the prices which are far too high, and THOSE prices are the reasons our rates keep going up. Insurance companies have no choice but to pass those costs onto their customers in order to stay afloat.
Furthermore, cutting out the insurance companies and making the government responsible for billing/payment is NOT a cost-free change. The government is inefficient. It is loaded with bureaucracy. Lots of money gets wasted. I am skeptical that switching over to single-payer would even save much (or anything) in administration costs.
But again, administration costs are not my concern. We need to get the cost of actual care down.
Which leads me to your next copypasta point...
Drug prices (and everything else) are already negotiated in the US -- by insurance companies with both doctors and pharmaceutical companies. That hasn't worked out. Prices are kept artificially high, because at the end of the day (shout out to Hashtagking), the doctors and drug companies have something public needs, and the public will revolt against the insurance if it's not paid for.In general, costs are paid through funding from income Virtually all essential basic care is covered, including maternity. Coverage is not affected by loss or change of jobs and there are no lifetime limits or exclusions for pre-existing conditions.
Drug prices are negotiated with suppliers by the federal government to control costs.
In the US, for example, you will probably notice that most doctors have "grouped up", and now there are several doctors in one office with the same specialty. This has been the case for decades, but in the last 5-10 years, it has increased dramatically. For example, in Las Vegas, almost all ophthalmologists work in one of three huge "eye centers" in the city. I remember going to one in 2010 and it was a clusterfuck. Long waits, you're rushed through, treated like a number, and even the doctors are rude and short with you.
So why does this happen?
Doctors realized that insurance companies were trying to cut costs by paying them less, and basically saying, "If you don't like it, don't carry our insurance." They fought back by grouping up and negotiating together. Now the doctors were back in control, saying to the insurance, "If you try to pay us less, none of us will take your insurance, and no one will be insured for this specialty in this city." So then the insurance has to back down.
This unfortunately also has the side effect of the care going downhill, because the doctors are no longer competing with one another, and pretty much operate as a monolith. I try to avoid these large groups as much as I can, but it's very tough nowadays.
So back to my point. Perhaps you will see the above as proof that the insurance/privatized system is broken, and socialized medicine is the answer.
If single payer comes to exist in the US, the doctors, hospitals and pharma companies aren't going to just happily take a pay cut. They will basically hold the country hostage and demand the same level of pay that they received under the privatized insurance, and they will eventually win that battle. You can imagine the massive tax hikes which will be required to pay for all of this, and then the costs will continue to go UP, as utilization of this "free" care will be MUCH higher than before when it wasn't "free".
Why do you think so many doctors are fine with a single payer model in the US? Do they hate money? Obviously not. They realize that they will likely make MORE money, as they will be bursting at the seams with patients, and suddenly they will be free to run all the expensive tests and do all the expensive procedures they want, and Uncle Sam will reliably pay the bill!
Then there's also the problem with the doctor shortage in the US. That's a real thing. We already don't have enough doctors to go around, and that's with many people staying home because of cost. Even I will do this, despite being a well-off Jew. For example, if my knee is hurting, I won't run to the doctor and get an MRI. I will give it at least few weeks to get better on its own, and only see the doctor if I feel it's making no progress. Much of that is dictated by cost. I don't want to pay for an MRI for something likely to go away on its own. But if Uncle Sam is paying... well, that suddenly becomes a different story.
Single payer will cause a massive increase in utilization of health care services, and crippling wait times will become reality.
Speaking of Canada, have you ever watched Steven Crowder's video (I think from 2009 or 2010) where he took a hidden camera around Quebec and tried to get health care? Very eye-opening and damning look at your wonderful system.
The problem with any socialized medicine system is that eventually it creates a two-tiered system -- one where the ordinary folk get the crap care which often involves long waits, and one where the rich people can see the best doctors instantly. And if countries attempt to fight this by making such a two-tiered system illegal, then rich people simply travel to other countries for better care.
The US is simply not ready for socialized medicine. Not enough doctors. Cost system in place is FAR too high.
The #1 need right now of US healthcare is to CUT COSTS and make the billing system simple and transparent.
After that, we can have our debate as to who should pay for what.
Believe it or not, despite my admitted political conservatism, I am not in the camp of "health care isn't a right" or "it's your responsibility to pay for all care you receive". I understand that any civilized government needs some sort of compassionate solution for the poor to be able to pay for health care. You can't just let your country's citizens die or suffer in pain/illness because they can't foot the bill for treatment. I get that. But the left's solution (just make it single payer and raise taxes on the rich) is a fucking disaster waiting to happen.
I have to pay taxes for Obamacare every year, and yes, I'm happy for the rollback.
Why?
Because it's a fucking bloated, broken system which is a complete disaster, and I'm tired of funding it.
Also, I don't know why you're bring up the AHCA's problems as a counter-point to what I wrote. I've never been in favor of the AHCA. I think it sucks, and I hope it fails.
We're on the same track, but it's not as simple as you make it.
I agree with all 3 points (though "negotiate drug prices" already happens -- we need legal access to drugs from other first world countries).
However, those three alone won't solve the cost issue.
There needs to be a comprehensive restructuring of cost and billing of health care services in the US.
Some examples:
- Revamp billing system to where it is no longer piecemeal. Right now, a single and simple visit to a doctor for a common issue often results in a bill for 8 different elements. This needs major consolidation, as it is highly abused.
- Disallow "double billing" where patients are billed for two examinations in one visit, such as my "Does your stomach hurt?" example I posted recently.
- End the practice of "drive-by doctoring" -- a legal scam where additional doctors will visit patients with serious illnesses, spend a few minutes on an examination, and (legally) bill the insurance for as much as $100,000.
- Aggressively identify and prosecute medical fraud. Make this crackdown very public, seeking serious prison time and massive fines for anyone convicted. Right now, fraud is a huge problem, primarily because it is mostly ignored.
- Provide patients with an estimate of all services to be performed and the cost of each one (out of pocket) BEFORE they occur, similar to what is required when you get your car repaired. Obviously this would be waived in true emergencies.
- Outlaw the nonsense "in network / out of network" crap, which artificially inflates prices for those who either don't have insurance or have an insurance not taken by that provider. The price should be the same for everyone, and only the amount paid by insurance should differ.
- Review current prices for tests and procedures as negotiated by providers and insurance companies, and compare to prices in other first world countries. Outlaw this pricing being any more than 50% higher than the average of other first world countries.
- Allow patients to buy pharmaceuticals from licensed companies from other first world countries by mail.
- End state-by-state insurance markets, and allow people to shop nationally for health care.
- Eliminate the deducible model, and change to a "percentage paid by patient" model. The deductible model does not work, as it overly discourages doctor visits when the deductible hasn't been met, while encouraging wastefulness once the deductible has been reached.
These are just some ideas I'm throwing out there. It's by no means a complete list.
Since it appears Hillary may run again...
From 1998: A controversial and provocative look at Bill Clinton's admin. Wow I can't believe he predicted the Iraq War, sort of predicted Sept 11 and predicted the conflict w Iran in 96. I didn't realize Clinton assembled his own team of Neocons to start war w Iraq in 96. Does this explain the one sided media coverage of Hillary's campaign? hmmm
There's also tidbits about Sarin, Tony Blair and more.
Insert red below
Last edited by FPS_Russia; 05-08-2017 at 04:22 PM.
For the love of Zoroaster, hillary please do not run again.
HILLARY WON
Any of u Russia tards see how dumb u looked today??
Healthcare system needs to collapse and a decentralized model needs to rise out of the ashes. But anyone that thinks anything or anyone can "solve" this is delusional.
The main obstacle is the very polarized atmosphere of not just the country but in Washington. You have the social democrats, the right wing socialist, and the few populist Republicans. I wouldn't expect anything from this session.
If the president doesn't embark on a tour to promote candidates that align with his view, his first 4 years will be very lame duckish.
The presidents ace up his sleeve is executive orders, he could just legislate from the oval office, i say go for it, he should just do it all via executive order, hail to the chief.
"Druff would suck his own dick if it were long enough"- Brandon "drexel" Drexel
"ann coulter literally has more common sense than pfa."-Sonatine
"Real grinders supports poker fraud"- Ray Davis
"DRILLED HER GOOD"- HONGKONGER
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