Bodog/Ignition eliminates table names and browsing of any open tables

[BlunderMaker]

I think with this update LHE is officially dead online, and it's pretty much dead live. RIP

[thesparten]

Only for those who don't want an honest fair game.

Good riddance

If you care about the viability of poker like most of you claim too..
We're all better off if the sites emulate ignition..

I know you rationalize and try very hard to explain how the sites are better with you bum hunting, angle shooting, seat scripters , rake back bonus whores... Lol lol

[donkdowndonedied]

Only for those who don't want an honest fair game.

Good riddance

If you care about the viability of poker like most of you claim too..
We're all better off if the sites emulate ignition..

I know you rationalize and try very hard to explain how the sites are better with you bum hunting, angle shooting, seat scripters , rake back bonus whores... Lol lol

Yea, I want to go play a game so I have to go select 3 different things just to sit at an empty table. Ok, so that table is empty.. Damn, that sucks. So let me try a different game and see if MAYBE others are playing.. Well, no, no one is playing. Oh lets try it a third time. Oh wait, I don't want to play headsup, just like 99% of the players who play live real poker!

This is total fail. I can't imagine them ever getting games off with full tables anymore. People who hate to play short are never going to go through this ordeal.

So I tried it and fuck that, I'm cashing out. Debit card arrived today. We will be awash in $20s shortly.

[Dan Druff]

So I've been off Ignition for a little while.

How dead are the games?

Are there any 20-40 or 30-60 LHE games anymore, or is that just totally dead? What about 10-20 or higher O8?

[thesparten]

Only for those who don't want an honest fair game.

Good riddance

If you care about the viability of poker like most of you claim too..
We're all better off if the sites emulate ignition..

I know you rationalize and try very hard to explain how the sites are better with you bum hunting, angle shooting, seat scripters , rake back bonus whores... Lol lol

Yea, I want to go play a game so I have to go select 3 different things just to sit at an empty table. Ok, so that table is empty.. Damn, that sucks. So let me try a different game and see if MAYBE others are playing.. Well, no, no one is playing. Oh lets try it a third time. Oh wait, I don't want to play headsup, just like 99% of the players who play live real poker!

This is total fail. I can't imagine them ever getting games off with full tables anymore. People who hate to play short are never going to go through this ordeal.

So I tried it and fuck that, I'm cashing out. Debit card arrived today. We will be awash in $20s shortly.

Ohhhh, poor baby..

The self importance of nit grinders, HUD using, seat scripting , angle shooting hucksters is lost on everybody , even the sites themselves..

Your self importance to the game is amazing..

No body wants you guys around.

Just sit and play poker like everyone else, dik.

If it's not a "set up" against the fish, you guys cry.lol...

Tsk tsk tsk.. taking money under the pretense of playing a fair game of poker are over..

Why don't you set up a three card Monty milk crate on times square.. it's basically the same thing you want sites to set up for you or we will all be denied your great presence at the tables..

Why don't you just Protest micro aggression,s at Berkeley. It's a better use if your time now that your not playing on line anymore..

[BlunderMaker]

Tsk tsk tsk.. taking money under the pretense of playing a fair game of poker are over..

I thought the pretense of a fair game of poker WAS to take money. That's the whole point, isn't it? I don't think HUDs, scripts etc are unfair granted that everybody who wants to use them can. I do think they are detrimental to the poker economy and I wouldn't mind them being banned by the major sites.

But that's not what Ignition has done. They've removed the ability to see what games are actually running at any time. If the idea is to replicate an irl poker room, they've missed the boat. You can walk into a poker room and see who is playing and where they are playing. You can see what games are running etc. This is just stupid.

And the seating algorithm is garbage, so they couldn't even get that right.

I've been playing a bit on BetOnline which has the best software among US sites, IMO. But damn, poker ain't what it used to be.

[Shizzmoney]

So I've been off Ignition for a little while.

How dead are the games?

Are there any 20-40 or 30-60 LHE games anymore, or is that just totally dead? What about 10-20 or higher O8?

Pretty much dead. And the highest NL I ever saw running is maybe 5/10 during peak times....but even then the majority of tables were just 1/2 NL and below.

[Dan Druff]

So I've been off Ignition for a little while.

How dead are the games?

Are there any 20-40 or 30-60 LHE games anymore, or is that just totally dead? What about 10-20 or higher O8?

Pretty much dead. And the highest NL I ever saw running is maybe 5/10 during peak times....but even then the majority of tables were just 1/2 NL and below.

How do you see what's running? Do you just try to sit and see what happens?

[BeerAndPoker]

Pretty much dead. And the highest NL I ever saw running is maybe 5/10 during peak times....but even then the majority of tables were just 1/2 NL and below.

How do you see what's running? Do you just try to sit and see what happens?

That is all you can do at this point. At lot of games I've sat I'm the only player at the table so I leave and you can bet recs will do the same.

I read the 2+2 thread and saw a few 30/60 guysl(Schneids and bicyclekick) talking about those games never running. Perhaps on weekends I could see them going but maybe not even then.

As I said earlier thesparten and will again if no games run because something kills all the action it means any idea that might sound great on the surface is really awful. No games = no poker for all of us. I know you are all for the rec model which Ignition already had that going for them with anonymous tables but with this new change it has killed all the action for every player.

[thesparten]

Tsk tsk tsk.. taking money under the pretense of playing a fair game of poker are over..

I thought the pretense of a fair game of poker WAS to take money. That's the whole point, isn't it? I don't think HUDs, scripts etc are unfair granted that everybody who wants to use them can. I do think they are detrimental to the poker economy and I wouldn't mind them being banned by the major sites.

But that's not what Ignition has done. They've removed the ability to see what games are actually running at any time. If the idea is to replicate an irl poker room, they've missed the boat. You can walk into a poker room and see who is playing and where they are playing. You can see what games are running etc. This is just stupid.

And the seating algorithm is garbage, so they couldn't even get that right.

I've been playing a bit on BetOnline which has the best software among US sites, IMO. But damn, poker ain't what it used to be.

It is unfair, otherwise why would it be detrimental to the poker economy..

Your are technically correct that it's fair couse everyone can do it BUT,, we know what it really is about..



As far as tables not being able to start is worrisome and I will yield to BEER AND POKERS post on that one with one caveat..

Even though table traffic is down and thete "collecting" less rake, there are much much fewer people cashing out.
It's just "now" a whole bunch of players pushing pots back and fourth..
The recs are actually having fun.

Who cares about the 24 nit grinding tabler with all his 3rd Party programs, playing all day in his dirty boxers..all of them complaining. Who cares about those grimy ass motherfuckers..

JUST SIT AT A FUCKEN TABLE AND PLAY A GOOD CLEAN FUN GAME OF POKER.. YOU BUM HUNTING WHITE TRASH ASSHOLE S.

It's not going to get any better for you guys, but worse. The trend will unapologetically continue..

[Shizzmoney]

Pretty much dead. And the highest NL I ever saw running is maybe 5/10 during peak times....but even then the majority of tables were just 1/2 NL and below.

How do you see what's running? Do you just try to sit and see what happens?

Yes, and I've also been doing some intel from 2p2 like BeerandPoker said.

I will say, this stuff was happening *BEFORE* they eliminated the ability to rail and see tables. Now it will get worse IMO

[SetofKs]

Do you think they purposely killed their cash games? I feel like they have very smart people working for them, and maybe they knew this would happen, and did it for a reason?

[BeerAndPoker]

Do you think they purposely killed their cash games? I feel like they have very smart people working for them, and maybe they knew this would happen, and did it for a reason?

Anything is possible but I just don't get why.

Let's assume they have 100 tables running and take $100 average per hour off each (micros way less and some probably north of $200/hr but it was also many more tables before) that is 10k an hour, 240k a day in cash games alone.

How much does a site need to make to be satisfied?

Of course some players are going to win in the process it's part of doing business in this auto pilot revenue stream and if the business is there they should be happy to cash people out because it means they are making money.

[Shizzmoney]

Do you think they purposely killed their cash games? I feel like they have very smart people working for them, and maybe they knew this would happen, and did it for a reason?

No. If they wanted to kill the games, they'd take them off the site entirely.

They want to control the volume, and discourage regs from the site as much as they can. Of course, knowing the regs (and the operator knowing the regs), it won't deter every degen in world from still playing. The site knows that there will be people everyday who will want to start games, who will slog through the work of multi-table sessions. Bovada/Ignition just wants it more on *their* terms (i.e. Stars killing HU games).

Like most poker sites post boom, rather than invest in the players and marketing and worry about uber profits later, operations like Bovada have become ruthless businesses first. They see that they must invest in what the future will be, be it online casino gaming, bingo, fantasy sports, hearthstone, or other whatever fucking stupid mind dumb game that is more chance oriented than poker because of the costs associated with operating a poker room, as well as the type of customer that poker players are (tend to be more "edge" focused, i.e. bonus whoring, bum hunting, sharp sports betting, etc).

Bovada knows people make a living off their site; they, like Stars, don't really want that.

And yes, its an online poker room so its not *that* much to operate (and btc has made withdrawing easier).....but the point of a business is to cut costs where you can to ensure quarterly profit, and Bovada ensures more of that profit by discouraging withdrawals from "net" winning players. By deterring regs, they will be able to keep a greater slice of their profits.

Nowadays, the only loyalty is to the “bottom line” and by doing this action, Bovada/Ignition is basically hoping that some of the regs (who would take the fish's stack and then withdraw from the site) go away, that the fish migrate into +EV games for the business as a whole (because they know those ppl are more likely to deposit and play other stuff, like the pits), with the knowledge they can still make enough money and profit off of the "skeleton" poker site that eventually remains.

[Dan Druff]

Shizz is most likely correct.

Bodog/Bovada/Ignition has slowly been pushing out the pros from their site.

First they killed rakeback deals.

Then they started tailoring bonuses specifically to losing players, offering little to nothing to winning players.

Then they went to anonymous tables (to stop bumhunting and data mining).

This year they've clamped down hard on both casino bonus whores and sports edge multiaccounters.

Now they're controlling the seating.

They WANT the pros to get frustrated and leave.

Is it killing the games? Yes.

But they don't seem to care. I think they are tired of the fish getting so badly crushed that they don't even have time to rake back the expense of processing their deposits (and subsequent cashouts for the pro).

Shizzmoney put it best: They want you playing on their terms.

It's very possible that their algorithm seats losing players together and winning players at a different table (or alone), whenever possible. They may even have algorithms analyzing VPIP and other stats, so they can still identify good players who happen to be losing at the moment due to either runbad or poor game selection (thus still sitting them with winners).

Unfortunately, the era of winning on the Bodog network may be over for the most part.

[Shizzmoney]

The only thing I play now is MTTs on Ignition (I've been an MTT reg on the Bovada network since 2010), and guarantees have been consistently slashed by upwards to 40-60% over the past few years (and during the middle of the week, it's not common to *still* see an overlay). the $200 on Sunday used to be a $200k guarantee; now it's a $150k, for example.

Runner counts for the early evening dailies, the bi-monthly "Mad Monday/Wednesday" series, and the Sunday specials are still quite high, mostly due to those alluring guarantees still existing and also allowing Bodog players from countries like France and Brazil to be a part of the overall player pool. I haven't played with as much volume however as I did say, in 2015 (where I played a ton of cash because the games were phenomenal), just because Bovada also cut out a lot of tournaments I used to play.

While player pools are still quite large I'd say we've seen a drop of about 15-25% of the player pools before the migration (the biggest punter counts were during the summer and fall in 2015, IMO) away from the main site just because of the fact that sports betting (fish) players, who are also the type of demo to play a tournament, can't immediately take the $100 they won in a parlay to the poker GUI, with the same account. This "inconvenience" has eroded games, which was the intended affect for sure but not just because for the business money making side of it, but also because Bovada doesn't want to get *too* big despite the lure of uber profits (like Stars and Party back in 2006) and have more scrutiny on them by law enforcement in both US and Quebec that they already have enough of, as it is.

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

It's very possible that their algorithm seats losing players together and winning players at a different table (or alone), whenever possible. They may even have algorithms analyzing VPIP and other stats, so they can still identify good players who happen to be losing at the moment due to either runbad or poor game selection (thus still sitting them with winners).

haven't noticed this yet at the PLO8 tables...i've played with a ton of dogshit players since the new update...however PLO8 is such a niche game that they may not be able to do this sorta segregation or they would have no games at all...

[thesparten]

Do you think they purposely killed their cash games? I feel like they have very smart people working for them, and maybe they knew this would happen, and did it for a reason?

No. If they wanted to kill the games, they'd take them off the site entirely.

They want to control the volume, and discourage regs from the site as much as they can. Of course, knowing the regs (and the operator knowing the regs), it won't deter every degen in world from still playing. The site knows that there will be people everyday who will want to start games, who will slog through the work of multi-table sessions. Bovada/Ignition just wants it more on *their* terms (i.e. Stars killing HU games).

Like most poker sites post boom, rather than invest in the players and marketing and worry about uber profits later, operations like Bovada have become ruthless businesses first. They see that they must invest in what the future will be, be it online casino gaming, bingo, fantasy sports, hearthstone, or other whatever fucking stupid mind dumb game that is more chance oriented than poker because of the costs associated with operating a poker room, as well as the type of customer that poker players are (tend to be more "edge" focused, i.e. bonus whoring, bum hunting, sharp sports betting, etc).

Bovada knows people make a living off their site; they, like Stars, don't really want that.

And yes, its an online poker room so its not *that* much to operate (and btc has made withdrawing easier).....but the point of a business is to cut costs where you can to ensure quarterly profit, and Bovada ensures more of that profit by discouraging withdrawals from "net" winning players. By deterring regs, they will be able to keep a greater slice of their profits.

Nowadays, the only loyalty is to the “bottom line” and by doing this action, Bovada/Ignition is basically hoping that some of the regs (who would take the fish's stack and then withdraw from the site) go away, that the fish migrate into +EV games for the business as a whole (because they know those ppl are more likely to deposit and play other stuff, like the pits), with the knowledge they can still make enough money and profit off of the "skeleton" poker site that eventually remains.

If nit, angle shooting , rake back, bum hunting, constant complaining grinders were good for a site, obviously!! The sites would want them.

I agree with most of this post...

I always laugh when "said" grinders always try to convince everyone how good "they" are for the site..lol

[big dick]

thesparten: Good post , ignition doing the right thing



this pos ^ is maybe the biggest fucking retard I have ever encountered on the net.
All kidding aside I really hope you die of a crack overdose you worthless fucking n-word
fuck you faggot

[Shizzmoney]

It's very possible that their algorithm seats losing players together and winning players at a different table (or alone), whenever possible. They may even have algorithms analyzing VPIP and other stats, so they can still identify good players who happen to be losing at the moment due to either runbad or poor game selection (thus still sitting them with winners).

haven't noticed this yet at the PLO8 tables...i've played with a ton of dogshit players since the new update...however PLO8 is such a niche game that they may not be able to do this sorta segregation or they would have no games at all...

yeah their main focus are the hold em games. And maybe PLO high.