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Thread: Should Apple help government hack into the phone of dead terrorist?

  1. #81
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    11Alive News ‏@11AliveNews 46m46 minutes ago

    #BREAKING Federal judge says DOJ cannot force Apple to unlock iPhone in New York drug case
    GG government. Better luck next time.

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/02/...one-fbi-judge/

    NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — The U.S. Justice Department cannot force Apple to provide the FBI with access to a locked iPhone data in a routine Brooklyn drug case, a magistrate judge ruled Monday.

    U.S. Magistrate Judge James Orenstein’s written decision gives support to the company’s position in its fight against a California judge’s order that it create specialized software to help the FBI hack into an iPhone linked to the San Bernardino terrorism investigation. Apple’s filing to oppose the order by Magistrate Judge Sheri Pym in California is due by Friday.

    The San Bernardino County-owned iPhone 5C was used by Syed Farook, who was a health inspector. He and his wife Tashfeen Malik killed 14 people during a Dec. 2 attack that was at least partly inspired by the Islamic State group.

    Apple’s opposition to the government’s tactics have evoked a national debate over digital privacy rights and national security.

    Orenstein concluded that Apple is not obligated to assist government investigators against its will and noted that Congress has not adopted legislation that would achieve the result sought by the government.

    “How best to balance those interests is a matter of critical importance to our society, and the need for an answer becomes more pressing daily, as the tide of technological advance flows ever farther past the boundaries of what seemed possible even a few decades ago,” Orenstein wrote. “But that debate must happen today, and it must take place among legislators who are equipped to consider the technological and cultural realities of a world their predecessors could not begin to conceive.”

    A Justice Department spokesman said they were disappointed in the ruling and planned to appeal in the coming days. Apple and their attorneys said they were reading opinion and will comment later.

    In October, Orenstein invited Apple to challenge the government’s use of a 227-year-old law to compel Apple to help it recover iPhone data in criminal cases.

    The Cupertino, California-based computer maker did, saying in court papers that extracting information from an iPhone “could threaten the trust between Apple and its customers and substantially tarnish the Apple brand.”

    It followed up by declining to cooperate in a dozen more instances in four states involving government requests to aid criminal probes by retrieving data from individual iPhones.

    Federal prosecutors say Apple has stopped short of challenging court orders judicially, except in the cases before Orenstein and the California jurist who ruled about the San Bernardino shooter’s phone.

    “Ultimately, the question to be answered in this matter, and in others like it across the country, is not whether the government should be able to force Apple to help it unlock a specific device; it is instead whether the All Writs Act resolves that issue and many others like it yet to come,” Orenstein wrote. “For the reasons set forth above, I conclude that it does not.”

    Police Commissioner Bill Bratton and Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence and Counter-terrorism John Miller penned a New York Times op-ed earlier this month calling on Apple to comply with an order to disable a security feature in the San Bernardino gunman’s iPhone.

    “Apple is making a stand because the government wants it to create something against its will: code that would disable a feature that erases all content after 10 failed password attempts. Tim Cook, Apple’s chief executive, has said that if this happens, the floodgates will open to similar law enforcement requests, putting customers’ data at risk. And not just in the United States: Apple supporters have raised concerns that other countries, particularly China and Russia, are likely to follow suit,” they wrote. “Mr. Cook’s position is hyperbolic, in our view.”

    Apple CEO Tim Cook said last week that it would be “bad for America” if his company complied with the FBI’s demand.

    “If a court can ask us to write this piece of software, think about what else they could ask us to write,” Cook said. “Maybe it’s an operating system for surveillance. Maybe it’s the ability for law enforcement to turn on the camera. I mean I don’t know where this stops.”

     
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      4Dragons: HOF

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Great.

    So search warrants for criminals and terrorists can apply to everything EXCEPT iPhones.

    iPhones are sacred. They should never have their passwords breached no matter what, because privacy.

    At least criminals and terrorists now know where they can safely store data they don't want ever found.


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    http://www.latimes.com/business/tech...226-story.html


    so, Apple lets China go through their Iphones, but not the US?

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    Gold abrown83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Great.

    So search warrants for criminals and terrorists can apply to everything EXCEPT iPhones.

    iPhones are sacred. They should never have their passwords breached no matter what, because privacy.

    At least criminals and terrorists now know where they can safely store data they don't want ever found.

    Actually not exactly

    Government can't force you to open a safe in your home.

    Government can't force you to decrypt hand written encrypted notes.

    There are quite a few scenarios where I can come up with where government can't compel somebody to do something.

     
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      MumblesBadly: Hell, yeah! Civil rights!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRK Star View Post
    http://www.latimes.com/business/tech...226-story.html


    so, Apple lets China go through their Iphones, but not the US?
    Just to be clear Apple has always allowed and supported 3rd party control apps.

    As a business owner you can pay to have them put on, or even as a parent, where it remotely allows you to login and change the pin and access a bunch of other information on the phone. The app and service just has to be installed ahead of time.

    Just because his employer was irresponsible doesn't mean that's Apple's fault.

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    Hilarious to watch who was for and against apple on this one. Those who are for are probly shady/cheating scumbags with incriminating shit on their phones. Anybody who was dating someone who was strongly for apple, GET OUT

     
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      MumblesBadly: Hell, no, fascism supporter!
      
      varys: yawn

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post
    Hilarious to watch who was for and against apple on this one. Those who are for are probly shady/cheating scumbags with incriminating shit on their phones. Anybody who was dating someone who was strongly for apple, GET OUT
    A nice 6th grade reading level understanding of the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post
    Hilarious to watch who was for and against apple on this one. Those who are for are probly shady/cheating scumbags with incriminating shit on their phones. Anybody who was dating someone who was strongly for apple, GET OUT
    A nice 6th grade reading level understanding of the situation.

    except that really is what it all comes down to, ppl only caring about their own ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post

    A nice 6th grade reading level understanding of the situation.

    except that really is what it all comes down to, ppl only caring about their own ass.
    It's this damn liberty thing that some people believe in. 10th Amendment, you know foundational stuff that the US was built on.

    Apple's argument is the following:

    1. You can't compel us to write new code, think of the possible consequences.

    2. You can't undue a hack, even if you delete the code, the team that created it will have the knowledge, IP just doesn't disappear.

    3. There were already means to do this, not Apple's fault the city government was retarded and didn't use the technology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post


    except that really is what it all comes down to, ppl only caring about their own ass.
    It's this damn liberty thing that some people believe in. 10th Amendment, you know foundational stuff that the US was built on.

    Apple's argument is the following:

    1. You can't compel us to write new code, think of the possible consequences.

    2. You can't undue a hack, even if you delete the code, the team that created it will have the knowledge, IP just doesn't disappear.

    3. There were already means to do this, not Apple's fault the city government was retarded and didn't use the technology.
    <10%, maybe <5%

    fuck apple, I guarantee it played it out this: cpl really rich shitheads from apple sitting around talking after the FBI makes their request "LETS GO PUBLIC, IT WILL MAKE US MONEY!!"

    And they will make money cuz ppl who like doing shady shit on their phones love this ruling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post

    It's this damn liberty thing that some people believe in. 10th Amendment, you know foundational stuff that the US was built on.

    Apple's argument is the following:

    1. You can't compel us to write new code, think of the possible consequences.

    2. You can't undue a hack, even if you delete the code, the team that created it will have the knowledge, IP just doesn't disappear.

    3. There were already means to do this, not Apple's fault the city government was retarded and didn't use the technology.
    <10%, maybe <5%

    fuck apple, I guarantee it played it out this: cpl really rich shitheads from apple sitting around talking after the FBI makes their request "LETS GO PUBLIC, IT WILL MAKE US MONEY!!"

    And they will make money cuz ppl who like doing shady shit on their phones love this ruling.
    Yeaaaaa <10%

    LoL Obama Presidency -900+ seats to Republicans at Local, State and Federal level, and the Tea Party movement.

    Yup <10%

     
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      thesidedish: no clue what this is

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    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Great.

    So search warrants for criminals and terrorists can apply to everything EXCEPT iPhones.

    iPhones are sacred. They should never have their passwords breached no matter what, because privacy.

    At least criminals and terrorists now know where they can safely store data they don't want ever found.

    Actually not exactly

    Government can't force you to open a safe in your home.

    Government can't force you to decrypt hand written encrypted notes.

    There are quite a few scenarios where I can come up with where government can't compel somebody to do something.

    There was a good story relating to this some months ago when they wanted some woman's personal password and she fought them in court, when the court did finally decide that she had to turn it over she stood up and said "I forgot it".

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    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post


    except that really is what it all comes down to, ppl only caring about their own ass.
    It's this damn liberty thing that some people believe in. 10th Amendment, you know foundational stuff that the US was built on.

    Apple's argument is the following:

    1. You can't compel us to write new code, think of the possible consequences.

    2. You can't undue a hack, even if you delete the code, the team that created it will have the knowledge, IP just doesn't disappear.

    3. There were already means to do this, not Apple's fault the city government was retarded and didn't use the technology.
    I would like them to try this with the caveat that they have to compensate Apple for writing all the code to crack this thing. Apple turns around and hands the DOJ a bill for like $5B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Great.

    So search warrants for criminals and terrorists can apply to everything EXCEPT iPhones.

    iPhones are sacred.
    No the government wanted that information outside of search warrants.



    From the judge:

    Like the earlier warrant to search Feng's residence, this warrant set a two-week time limit on its execution. Id.

    At some point during the following two weeks, the government "initiate[d] the execution of
    the search warrant [for Feng's iPhone] by attempting to search the device, turning it on and placing it
    in airplane mode. The [DEA] agents … began that search but were unable to complete [it] because"
    the device required a password to allow access to certain information. Tr. at 6. The DEA agents then
    sought the assistance of the Federal Bureau of Investigation ("FBI"), but remained unable to bypass
    the iPhone's passcode security. Id. at 6-7; see also Govt. II at 5.

    At that point – after the expiration of the two-week period during which agents were permitted
    to execute the Device Warrant
    – the government sought Apple's technical assistance. See Govt. II at 6;
    Tr. at 6. There appears to be no dispute that Apple's response, consistent with its past practice in at
    least 70 instances, was that it could and would unlock Feng's phone for the agents, but only if a court
    issued a lawful order requiring it to do so.
    Full text: http://blogs.reuters.com/alison-fran...29.16order.pdf

     
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      MumblesBadly: Schooling the fake lawyer rep!
    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83
    I'm going to come across as a bit of a douche but I really know more about this then anyone on this board by miles.

    ...if Trump is nominee he wins Presidency easily. Angry Blue Collar Whites will have record turnout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Great.

    So search warrants for criminals and terrorists can apply to everything EXCEPT iPhones.

    iPhones are sacred. They should never have their passwords breached no matter what, because privacy.

    At least criminals and terrorists now know where they can safely store data they don't want ever found.

    This is the FBIs problem. They should develop the software

     
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      4Dragons: riiiiiiight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Great.

    So search warrants for criminals and terrorists can apply to everything EXCEPT iPhones.

    iPhones are sacred. They should never have their passwords breached no matter what, because privacy.

    At least criminals and terrorists now know where they can safely store data they don't want ever found.

    Actually not exactly

    Government can't force you to open a safe in your home.

    Government can't force you to decrypt hand written encrypted notes.

    There are quite a few scenarios where I can come up with where government can't compel somebody to do something.
    Government can't force ME to decrypt hand written notes, but that falls under the rights against self-incrimination. Totally different.

    Government cannot force me to open a safe, but they can get an order to drill or blast open the safe.

    i am not saying that the government should be able to force individuals to make it easier to obtain evidence against them. However, they should have access to search everything. It is very dangerous for a company to be able to manufacture a VERY common device which can be used to store criminal evidence to where the person storing it has certainty that it can never be breached.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I don't want the government accessing my phone remotely, but I am fine with them having access to my data if they get a warrant for the physical device.

    Anyone who is against this is enabling a huge loophole for criminals to avoid prosecution (and avoiding discovery of co-conspirators).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I don't want the government accessing my phone remotely, but I am fine with them having access to my data if they get a warrant for the physical device.

    Anyone who is against this is enabling a huge loophole for criminals to avoid prosecution (and avoiding discovery of co-conspirators).
    this is the only way to make a case?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post

    Actually not exactly

    Government can't force you to open a safe in your home.

    Government can't force you to decrypt hand written encrypted notes.

    There are quite a few scenarios where I can come up with where government can't compel somebody to do something.
    Government can't force ME to decrypt hand written notes, but that falls under the rights against self-incrimination. Totally different.

    Government cannot force me to open a safe, but they can get an order to drill or blast open the safe.

    i am not saying that the government should be able to force individuals to make it easier to obtain evidence against them. However, they should have access to search everything. It is very dangerous for a company to be able to manufacture a VERY common device which can be used to store criminal evidence to where the person storing it has certainty that it can never be breached.
    They should do the same thing here. They should open the phone themselves just like they would blast open a safe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I don't want the government accessing my phone remotely, but I am fine with them having access to my data if they get a warrant for the physical device.

    Anyone who is against this is enabling a huge loophole for criminals to avoid prosecution (and avoiding discovery of co-conspirators).
    this is the only way to make a case?
    Sometimes it is.

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