Originally Posted by Lord of the Fraud
Masons or Sonatines pedo mates who keep him on the outside
Masons or Sonatines pedo mates who keep him on the outside
cmoney :It would be nice if Mexico could simply get human feces out of its drinking water
The primary issues regarding the lack of blood evidence in the garage are:2) I hadn't read anything about the bleach on Dassey's jeans until that interview. Regardless, even if Avery/Dassey, both with IQ's at or below 70, cleaned up with bleach and left no spot uncovered in that filthy trailer/garage (LOL), isn't the bleach itself detectable?
(1) Avery would have needed to know which kind of bleach to use (oxygen bleach), and which is not the usual household kind that is in liquid form (chlorine bleach) that the prosecutor claimed had splashed onto Dassey's pants during the cleaning.
(2) Removing all of the blood would have required an extremely meticulous scrubbing with the correct type of bleach that would have been essentially impossibl given the ridiculous amount of clutter in the garage, as well as the cracks in the concrete floor.
http://www.csitechblog.com/2011/08/d...leaching-.html
Most people know that forensics involves many different kinds of evidence, whether that is blood evidence or a weapon. However, the evidence can become degraded from a number of things such as time, heat or the use of bleach. Unfortunately, even advanced forensic techniques can be challenged by the use of a common kind of bleach found in many homes.
Understanding Bleach And Evidence
To understand how it all works, you have to consider that there are two kinds of bleach that are found in the majority of cleaning products within your home. There are bleaches that are primarily chlorine and there is also oxygen bleach.
Chlorine bleaches can remove a bloodstain to the naked eye but fortunately, forensics experts can use the application of substances such as luminol or phenolphthalein to show that hemoglobin is present. In fact, even if the shady criminal washed a bloodstained item of clothing 10 times, these chemicals could still reveal blood.
With oxygen bleach, the bleach has an oxidising agent, which could be a substance such as hydrogen peroxide. In these instances, hemoglobin is completely removed and can't later be detected. As expected, this presents a unique challenge for forensic scientists. Not only that, but it can significantly compromise an investigation and may mean thatevidence is not properly investigated and used in a trial.
Testing Out Bleaches
To properly assess whether bleach could fully remove blood, researchers soaked some bloodstained clothing in oxygen bleach for a couple of hours. After the bleaching, stains did look faded, although they were still somewhat noticeable. On the other hand, even though there was some visible marking, luminol and phenolphthalein didn't detect the haemoglobin on the clothing.
Challenges Of Detecting Bleach
The results are worrying because a stain on clothing could be assumed to occur from something else when a test shows up negative for hemoglobin. Eventually, valuable evidence could ultimately be dismissed, which then affects the entire criminal investigation and trial proceedings.
Forensics experts will not examine and check for important DNA evidence until they have initially found an appropriately identified blood sample. In this way, the entire investigation is compromised and the opportunity to obtain more information is lost.
Fortunately, there is a better chance of obtaining useful information from the seams of clothing. While washing does remove a great deal of evidence in the rest of the garment, it is far more challenging for a criminal to remove evidence found in the clothing seams.
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If steve didn't kill her what do you guys think happened? Was it coincidence that the killer had killed her soon after she left SA's house, or did the killer do that because he assumed he would be an easy target? You think the cops really went as far as to find her dead body, and cremate it and leave the ashes in steve's fire pit just to pin this on steve? Would be pretty crazy for the killer and the cops to be working in cahoots like that without even knowing it. Seems like a great coincidence thats somebody would do this, then give a great opportunity to frame steve right before he is scheduled to win a huge judgement against them.
Does anybody think the cops actually killed her? That theory makes more sense to me than it being a 3rd party killer, and the cops going to great lengths to pin this on steve.
I think it very likely that steve did this. I think its obvious that it didn't happen how the cops said it did, and its likely that the cops planted some evidence to strengthen their case. I am not convinced at all that the kid had anything to do with it. If he would've just kept his mouth shut he'd still be free. If I ever had a kid I'd make sure he knows to never talk to cops without a lawyer.
I think the white trash hillbilly who years before threw his cat into a bonfire fire did it
Its sort of the missing piece to the documentary and the hole in his case. Its fine to show the police tagged the wrong guy, but you still have to show who did it. I don't think the cops killed her (reminds me of that press conference where the sherriff said it would be much easier to kill him than set him up lol). Recent articles seem to do some of the finger pointing, creepy brothers are prime candidates. We are dealing with low life idiots and scum who rape their own nieces so some young visiting photographer may have been like raw meat in the shark cage.
which one was that? seems like the entire family could fit the bill: http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/...d-him-20160106
life advice.... don't send a female to a junk yard ever.
It sure is fortunate for the men who framed him in the rape case that Steven Avery is not a murderer.
According to who?Its sort of the missing piece to the documentary and the hole in his case. Its fine to show the police tagged the wrong guy, but you still have to show who did it. I don't think the cops killed her (reminds me of that press conference where the sherriff said it would be much easier to kill him than set him up lol). Recent articles seem to do some of the finger pointing, creepy brothers are prime candidates. We are dealing with low life idiots and scum who rape their own nieces so some young visiting photographer may have been like raw meat in the shark cage.
I have had Issues with credit cards in Europe
Finally got done. Didn't read anything so it was all new to me. I will have nightmares over that high pitched sexting prosecuter. It tricked me into thinking it was a woman everything I wasn't looking at the screen.
Also really surprised this forum thinks he's innocent of the second crime. The white nigga wanted to get his money's worth for that 18 years. Yeah cops are fags but all you really have to do is listen to Steven's phone calls to his mom. That didn't sound like an innocent man at all.
so much craziness around this since it has basically gone mega-viral
http://fox6now.com/2016/01/06/juror-...for-new-trial/
http://www.etonline.com/news/179248_...0k_signatures/ -- lol entertainment tonight but still
jurors coming out of the woodwork with all kinds of allegations...trading votes on charges - thinking not guilty on false imprisonment charge would leave the door open for an appeal, fearing for their safety, 2 jurors related to manitowoc county sheriff employees...i also read something about avery at this point believes his two brothers are responsible and set him up??
hopefully there are some more twists and turns to this shitshow yet to come because this is compelling as hell to watch playout from afar.
Still wondering why Avery's defense team couldn't get the trial moved to another county far from Manitowoc.
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My Theory:
- Halbachs murdered on way home from Avery's house by killer lying in wait. Not sure by who but something seems shady about ex-boyfriend/roommate/search-party crew.
- Buzzcut Deputy is first one to discover her body as is obvious by his call to dispatch. He gets with Lenk to figure out what to do. They dump her body in car (hence bloody hair in back trunk), then dump car at Averys house with some laughable half-hearted bushes covering. They burn her body behind Avery's house and dump bones next to his house (but leave some fragments in barrel, which they returned)
-They plant blood in car via the old tube. This is blatantly obvious from the tampered with vile and surrounding packaging (LOL at scotch tape)
- Plant key in house. They plant Avery's DNA on it. His DNA is everywhere, and has been collected from him. The fact that people are in this house for three days scouring this place and never see a key with huge fob thing attached, in plain sight, is one of the most ridiculous things Ive heard in my life. Pretty obvious during closing statement even the prosecutor knew it was planted. Lenk had a tough time planting earlier because first babysitter cop watched them like a hawk. Second cop did not (all testimony).
- Plant bullet in garage. Again this is something never found during numerous searches but found way after the fact. LOL @ people saying "but it was fired from his gun". He probably had slugs from that gun all over his shithole property. Picking one up and putting her DNA on it was easy, but finding the right time to plant it took time and access.
- All of kids confession is obviously a joke. The list of low IQ, barely functional people being coerced into admitting to things they never did is longer than Santa's list. Was cringe worthy to watch and very eye opening. Even average and above IQ people have cracked and made false confessions.
- I laugh when people say "THe kid talked about torturing the woman while she was in leg irons and handcuffs and he actually had them on his property" Um... duh, cause when they find evidence and coerce a person they always use evidence they've already found to concoct a scenario which this kid fell for hook line and sinker. OBV no DNA found on chains.
- SA's DNA on latch is meaningless again cause story makes no common sense. The quote From Reddit sums up my thoughts:- The odds that SA and the kid meticulously clean up after butchering and shooting this lady to leave only old deer blood stains and shit is obv laughable.The police say they swabbed all over the vehicle and they only found DNA on the hood latch... That means that either Steven had gloves on the whole time except when he opened the hood latch... or that he wiped down everything on the vehicle except the hood latch but also forgot to clean the blood stains. How is any of that believable
- Just the simple fact that the key was so obviously planted makes it impossible to trust any other DNA at scene
- Only thing I dint like was that the blood tested didnt have that test tube chemical in it. But after you hear they havent used the test in a decade, its unreliable (good for positives not so reliable for negatives) and hearing the FBI guy say he "knows" the other 3 spots in the car wouldnt have tested positive either (even though he didn't test them) makes the whole thing lose all credibility
- The fact that the juror is 7 not-guilt, 3 guilty, and 2 not sure at first count which turns into 12 guilty is HUGE red flag of Jury tampering/misconduct.
Mostly agree, except believe that one or more of SA's close relatives killed her and helped frame him with tacit assistance from the civil-suit deposed Manitowoc County LE. The following story can be found through the Rolling Stone article Charman provided in a post above.
http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murd...eresa-halbach/
Steven Avery, who is currently serving a life sentence for the murder of Teresa Halbach chronicled in Netflix’s “Making a Murderer,” not only stands by his innocence — he believes various family members may have killed the AutoTrader photographer.
In a 2009 court filing obtained by TheWrap, Avery said that brothers Charles and Earl Avery, as well as nephew Bobby Dassey and brother-in-law Scott Tadych, had motive and means to kill Halbach.
In the 59-page court document, Avery’s attorneys listed various reasons for his suspicion, including previous criminal records of the family members, knowledge that Halbach would be on the property on the given day, and desire to frame Avery for the crime.
For example, the document alleges that Charles Avery has had a history of assault against women, including clients who visited the Avery Salvage Yard. The filing also states that Charles had a reason to “frame Steven over money, a share of the family business, and over Jodi Stachowski,” Steven’s former girlfriend.
The document implies the same for Earl Avery, who had been charged with sexually assaulting his two daughters in 1995. According to the document, Earl admitted to driving his golf cart past Halbach’s car where it was found on the salvage yard, and told police that he is willing to give “any information incriminating to Steven, saying that ‘even if my brother did something, I would tell.'” [sic]
“Making a Murderer” investigates Steven Avery’s troubled history with law enforcement in his native Manitowoc County, Wisconsin. After DNA evidence exonerated him of a rape charge that put Avery behind bars for 18 years, he was received a life sentence for allegedly killing photographer Teresa Halbach in 2005.
Brendan Dassey, Steven Avery’s nephew, was also convicted for his involvement in the same case. The series highlights flaws in the investigation and prosecution of the murder cases.
Bobby Dassey, Brendan’s brother, allegedly had reason to frame Steven. The document says that “Bobby stated that Steven would lie in order to ‘stab ya in the back, and that Steven had done this to him in the past.” Moreover, the filing claims that “Bobby’s explanation of his movements on Oct. 31, 2005, is also suspicious,” and that he had scratches on his back that he claimed came from a puppy.
The document reveals that Tadych’s “motive to kill Ms. Halbach is his violent and volatile personality,” and “previous experiences with the court system show him to be a violent and impulsive person, particularly towards women.” For example, he was charged with criminal trespass and battery in Manitowoc County in 1994. Tadych was dating Brendan Dassey’s mother, Barb Janda, who lived next door to Steven Avery.
The introduction of the court filing reads that during Avery’s trial, “the defense sought to introduce evidence that other persons may have been responsible for Teresa Halbach’s murder. The parties briefed whether such evidence was admissible under State v. Denny, and the court ruled that the defense would be barred from presenting evidence that a person other than Brendan Dassey was responsible for the crimes.”
Avery said that he was entitled to argue that other people may have been responsible for the murder, and argued that Denny is inapplicable in his case.
In State v. Denny, the defendant was charged with homicide and “sought to introduce evidence that he had no motive to kill the victim, but that ‘any one of a number of third parties had motive and opportunity’ to kill the victim in this case.” The court denied Denny the presentation of evidence that others may have committed the crime, deeming it irrelevant.
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Furthermore, the Wisconsin courts essentially fucked over SA when he appealed his conviction over the trial judge not allowing the defense to name other credible suspects. And did so by claiming that those other suspects didn't have "direct or indirect motive", even though two of them had actual histories of sexually assaulting women, including on the property, and one had financial motivation because of the family business, as mentioned above. A discussion of the details of the relevant court precedent (State v. Denny) can be find here:
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/evi...-to-amend.html
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The mom asks the kid if he really did all this to the woman and Brendan responds with, "Not all of it." That was after sitting in jail for quite a while. Why on Earth would he be lying to his mother about raping and murdering a woman? The detectives aren't there intimidating him during phone calls. I really don't know how people have doubts that they did the second murder. Without a massive Freemason Satanist conspiracy and Brendan being a victim of MK Ultra there is no way they didn't do it. Everyone should go back and listen to all the phone calls from Steven to his mother and Brendan to his mother. None of that sounds like innocent people to me.
It's amazing that I can't really discount this, as asinine as it sounds.
I think it's highly unlikely that police burned her body on the site though, simply too much exposure.
BUT...I think that the key, bullet, and blood (?) were for sure planted, only hesitant on the blood because I found the explanation for the lack of EDTA to be thin. Any reasonable person could conclude that the vial was tampered with, though, so...
Colborn, still employed by Manitowoc btw, calling in the plates is incredible. Every other allegation of police misconduct is still speculative (as damning as it may be), but that happened and there is no reason for it that fits.
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Agreed. I believe one or more of SA's close relatives killed her after she left SA's place, hid her body offsite, then later burned it at the gravel pit, then later planted most of her burnt bones in the fire pit behind SA's trailer between the initial time SA's place was searched in November, and Brandon Dassey "confessed" in March, not realizing they'd left some behind at the gravel pit. And the dipshits who used shovels to search the firepit destroyed any evidence there that might have shown that the bones had been planted there.It's amazing that I can't really discount this, as asinine as it sounds.
I think it's highly unlikely that police burned her body on the site though, simply too much exposure.
BUT...I think that the key, bullet, and blood (?) were for sure planted, only hesitant on the blood because I found the explanation for the lack of EDTA to be thin. Any reasonable person could conclude that the vial was tampered with, though, so...
Colborn, still employed by Manitowoc btw, calling in the plates is incredible. Every other allegation of police misconduct is still speculative (as damning as it may be), but that happened and there is no reason for it that fits.
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Finally watched this fully while keeping myself from spoilers.
makes me sick what happened here
1,000,000 sick injustices in a row on these poor guys, fucking unbelievable
Perfect example of corruption and good ol boys clubs conspiring together to fuck the little guy
There are so many gross injustices in this string of events that quite frankly I'm not going to anger myself again by attempting to list them here.
SERIOUS REVIEW OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM REQUIRED, IT IS BASED ON COPS LAWYERS INVESTIGATORS AND JUDGES ALWAYS BEING HONEST
MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL
BALLIN'!!
Its one of the defense lawyers golden rules, find an alternative to the defendant and pin it on him so the jury can think somebody else did it. If the defense did it the documentary crew didn't include it. In this case it would have also been great if the documentary crew did an entire episode on the other Avery low IQ dirtbags running around the property. Would give us more to fill in the hole of what actually happened. The articles coming out recently seem to indicate this is all a new effort post trial to find the real killer.According to who?
Agreed about the additional episode.Its one of the defense lawyers golden rules, find an alternative to the defendant and pin it on him so the jury can think somebody else did it. If the defense did it the documentary crew didn't include it. In this case it would have also been great if the documentary crew did an entire episode on the other Avery low IQ dirtbags running around the property. Would give us more to fill in the hole of what actually happened. The articles coming out recently seem to indicate this is all a new effort post trial to find the real killer.
Re pinning it on someone else:
(1) Wisconsin's Denny standard prevents the defense from naming people who clearly don't have motive *and* opportunity. But in this case, the Wisconsin courts were ridiculous in claiming that some of SA's brothers who were known to be in the vicinity at the time of her disappearance didn't have motive.
(2) Being allowed to identify specific people as alternate suspects is extremely important for challenging the notion that SA was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Because in a criminal trial, the burden of proving guilt is on the state. If the defense had been able to name the other credible suspects, it would have been much harder for the prejudiced SA-is-guilty jurors to harass the other jurors into unanimously vote to convict.
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