Yes paying $50 for a case of shit beer, $12 for a pack of ciGarettes and a couple bucks more per gallon of gas, all to pay for lowest common denominator medical care sounds like utopia...enjoy being told by the government to quit being a burden on society and get busy dying when you need that bypass at 72.Originally Posted by DJ_Chaps
And good luck buying a reasonably priced car.
Last edited by Texter; 09-26-2014 at 08:05 PM.
Maybe this is a secret plan by the left to make Obamacare so awful that Americans, even conservatives like myself, will hate it, resent the insurance companies, and start to consider the single-payer model.
During last week's fiasco, I got so frustrated that I actually started muttering to myself that we should just throw the whole US health care model away and go with socialized medicine. Then I slapped myself back into sanity, but I admit that the thought was there for a second.
From the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...629-story.html
And a more recent story, from today: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...928-story.html
Cliffs from the articles above:
Insurance companies are paying doctors less on these Obamacare plans, doctors are dropping out of the network in droves, insurance companies aren't updating their lists, and it's extremely difficult to find out what doctors are covered on your plan.
Covered Califorina (Obamacare) was supposed to maintain a list of doctors on these plans, but the effort was an epic fail. It was riddled with inaccuracies, and eventually taken down.
Funny thing was that everyone laughed at Romney when he predicted this during the 2012 Presidential debates.
you're a fucking huge toolbox but I gotta agree with you. i wish I was born and raised and live in canada. 1000x the country america is
If you lived there and had to pay their high tax rates, you might say otherwise.you're a fucking huge toolbox but I gotta agree with you. i wish I was born and raised and live in canada. 1000x the country america is
Also, the weather is awful everywhere except Vancouver.
I pay high taxes here too. Least in canada I can save money by not having to have a home security system. Also the weather here in chicago pretty much sucks besides maybe 50 days a year.
standard republican stance. I guess the fact that doctors are way over paid never entered your mind. Have you ever considered the wages of doctors in other countries as compared to the US? The problem with health care is the money made by doctor's and drug companies. Your complaints are also typical republican in that you do not offer any solutions. Republican always criticize and never come up with their own plan.Cliffs from the articles above:
Insurance companies are paying doctors less on these Obamacare plans, doctors are dropping out of the network in droves, insurance companies aren't updating their lists, and it's extremely difficult to find out what doctors are covered on your plan.
Covered Califorina (Obamacare) was supposed to maintain a list of doctors on these plans, but the effort was an epic fail. It was riddled with inaccuracies, and eventually taken down.
Funny thing was that everyone laughed at Romney when he predicted this during the 2012 Presidential debates.
Health care is a huge problem but the lack of a proper solution really lies with the inactivity of republicans. The health care issue main problem is that doctors need to lower their fees. Doctors are highly trained and deserved to be highly compensated. There just needs to be a balance between being fairly compensated and making it affordable. I am the son of a nurse and have grown up around literally 50 plus doctors of general medicine. They are all worth millions-- I do not believe in socialism but when it comes to peoples' health capitalism is not good-
BOOM........: ownage>>>> winer.Yes paying $50 for a case of shit beer, $12 for a pack of ciGarettes and a couple bucks more per gallon of gas, all to pay for lowest common denominator medical care sounds like utopia...enjoy being told by the government to quit being a burden on society and get busy dying when you need that bypass at 72.
And good luck buying a reasonably priced car.
But.
Beer is expensive as if it was real cheep Less than drinking water in some cases every one would be drinking all day all the time (sloth) high taxes for alchaole and tobacco is like a preemptive charge for the problems that can occure when either is abused.
Smoking cigaret is a disgusting habit, I will smoke cig's some times and have no problems with frend's partaking, Canadian cig's are way better tasting then American as American smokes Turkish tobacco and canadians smoke fine Virginia tobacco.
America and Canadia are roughly the same size only canada has a small fraction of the population the USA has so by default the USA has supieor buying power and can demand better prices for its population which in the end creates a disposable society that consumes everything at a seemingly unsustainable high rate.
Gas prices are way higher in Europe than in already $1.50 per liter almost $6 per gallon in canada forces people to conserve and purchase gas sipping cars, hybrid, electric...
I do very much like America and a lot of the people I know frome there, but there is some comfort in being a canaidian citizen.
I do however think that the vast majority of Americains would pay the high taxes and suffer through buying expensive booze, gas, cig's, car's for some canaidian style stability in there country.
NEXUS is god
Last edited by Baron Von Strucker; 09-28-2014 at 09:35 PM.
all hail Hydra
Originally Posted by DanDruff:Since I'm a 6'2" Republican with an average-sized nose and a last name which doesn't end with "stein", "man", or "berg", I can hide among the goyim and remain undetected unless I open my mouth about money matters.
Good news, open enrollment is right around the corner and you can change plans. Just out of curiosity, which health plan is this through? Some are more notorious for narrow networks than others.
The whole pre-existing condition thing is a farce to begin with. Used to be insurance companies could say NO we wont take you at all.. Now they have to take you on a single plan as if you had insurance through your work in a group plan. What hasn't changed is the rules for paying on pre-existing conditions.. They can and still legally can refuse to cover any and all treatment for pre-existing conditions treatment for the first 12 months of the policy.. So not much really changed in the long run..Arent they involved by forcing insurance companies to take people with pre existing conditions thus limited the amount of money insurance companies have to pay to doctors? The insurance companies know they have to take everyone but at the same time they want to make as much money as possible. I dont think there is a stipulation how much insurance companies have to pay out to doctors. So the insurance companies simply tell the doctors we are going to pay you shit and the doctors tell the patients to fuck off.
With that said, this is also a case of you get what you pay for. 235 a month for insurance is really not a lot to pay. I have a 250 a month policy with deductibles so high the only reason this policy is worth having is in the event of some catastrophe event and for basic annual checkups (which still have some deductible of like 50-100 dollars).
if you want good coverage, you need to pay the same rate that employers pay for their employees. So if you start paying 400-600 a month I am sure you will not have any issues finding a specialist.
I personally think that health care should be free for everyone and then have secondary market for rich people that want to just pay cash or buy premium insurance so that dont want to wait in line with the rest of the herd.
Doctors are way overpaid?? You want to know why they make what they do.. Because the fucking legal system has raped MDs so often they have to pay out the ass now for malpractice insurance and practice CYA medicine basically having to run tests that are usually inappropriate or unnecessary because of lawyers bending them over and raping their assholes repeatedly. About the only MDs who actually make damn good money and don't have high malpractice are Radiologists because they don't touch patients and generally the requirement to sue them for mis-reading an Xray or scan is pretty high.. Hell even malpractice insurance is going up for those of us in the medical field who aren't MDs.. Mine has tripled in the last 7 yrs and Ive never had a single complaint or investigation.. There is already a flight from the general practice profession as all MDs want to specialize now because yes they make more but also they cant get sued as a ortho MD for the mistake the other MD made regarding a lump in your chest because well its not in their field of expertise.. The problem is now the primary care model is falling to Nurse Practioners and PAs to a lesser extent.. Its why by 2020 NPs will likely be self-sufficient practioners with the new Doctorate NP requirements because NPs now have to work under an MDs license problem is theres a rapidly declining number so something had to be done.. Its not necessarily a bad thing as it lowers costs somewhat but its sad that now somebody with 3 yrs of schooling and a years internship will be the gatekeepers in healthcare instead of a normal MD who has 4 yrs plus an additional 4 yrs residency.standard republican stance. I guess the fact that doctors are way over paid never entered your mind. Have you ever considered the wages of doctors in other countries as compared to the US? The problem with health care is the money made by doctor's and drug companies. Your complaints are also typical republican in that you do not offer any solutions. Republican always criticize and never come up with their own plan.Cliffs from the articles above:
Insurance companies are paying doctors less on these Obamacare plans, doctors are dropping out of the network in droves, insurance companies aren't updating their lists, and it's extremely difficult to find out what doctors are covered on your plan.
Covered Califorina (Obamacare) was supposed to maintain a list of doctors on these plans, but the effort was an epic fail. It was riddled with inaccuracies, and eventually taken down.
Funny thing was that everyone laughed at Romney when he predicted this during the 2012 Presidential debates.
Health care is a huge problem but the lack of a proper solution really lies with the inactivity of republicans. The health care issue main problem is that doctors need to lower their fees. Doctors are highly trained and deserved to be highly compensated. There just needs to be a balance between being fairly compensated and making it affordable. I am the son of a nurse and have grown up around literally 50 plus doctors of general medicine. They are all worth millions-- I do not believe in socialism but when it comes to peoples' health capitalism is not good-
But you see, that's just it. I wasn't someone with a "standard Republican stance" on this. If you go back and look at my posts prior to the implementation of Obamacare, you will see that I was neutral on it. Unlike many other Republicans, I realized the need for health care reform, and while I was skeptical about this particular method of it, I was willing to give it a chance before condemning it.standard republican stance. I guess the fact that doctors are way over paid never entered your mind. Have you ever considered the wages of doctors in other countries as compared to the US? The problem with health care is the money made by doctor's and drug companies. Your complaints are also typical republican in that you do not offer any solutions. Republican always criticize and never come up with their own plan.Cliffs from the articles above:
Insurance companies are paying doctors less on these Obamacare plans, doctors are dropping out of the network in droves, insurance companies aren't updating their lists, and it's extremely difficult to find out what doctors are covered on your plan.
Covered Califorina (Obamacare) was supposed to maintain a list of doctors on these plans, but the effort was an epic fail. It was riddled with inaccuracies, and eventually taken down.
Funny thing was that everyone laughed at Romney when he predicted this during the 2012 Presidential debates.
Health care is a huge problem but the lack of a proper solution really lies with the inactivity of republicans. The health care issue main problem is that doctors need to lower their fees. Doctors are highly trained and deserved to be highly compensated. There just needs to be a balance between being fairly compensated and making it affordable. I am the son of a nurse and have grown up around literally 50 plus doctors of general medicine. They are all worth millions-- I do not believe in socialism but when it comes to peoples' health capitalism is not good-
But now we see that most of the big concerns raised by Republicans -- and dismissed by Obama for years -- have come true.
The cornerstone of Obama's health care reforms were, "If you like your plan, you can keep it", and "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor". It was sold to the general public as a way to get coverage for the uninsured, while keeping the same level of coverage and care for those with existing coverage.
That's not what happened. Obama's promises have been broken, and even worse, he is not lifting a finger to make it right.
There is no dispute about this. This isn't political bluster or partisan massaging of facts.
The entire premise of Obamacare has turned out to be a fraud.
I actually believe Obama didn't know this when he made these promises. Once again, he trusted idiots under him to do the job right, they failed, and now he stands behind the whole thing anyway. He's just not good with holding people accountable or fixing the things that break under his watch.
Now, as to your point that I'm offering "no solution". I didn't post a solution because it's not my job to come up with one, nor would anyone implement my solution even if I did.
However, there are a few glaring problems with the modern US health care industry that need immediate fixes.
First and foremost, medical billing is overly complicated, misleading, easy to defraud, difficult to understand, and worst yet, often impossible for the consumer to know the price before agreeing to services. That's absolutely ridiculous. Imagine going to the store and not seeing the prices of anything you're buying, and then being forced to purchase the items at the cash register no matter how much they decide to charge you. That's exactly what happens with today's medical billing. For some reason that was not part of Obamacare's reform.
It is incredibly difficult to find out with certainty who takes your insurance. Even if the doctor claims that they do, the ultimate responsibility to pay is yours if it turns out they don't. It's a disaster. Finding out what is covered is even more difficult. If your doctor sends you for tests, how much will they be? Will they be covered? Who knows? Can you find out? Usually not. And you get a bill for thousands afterwards and feel like a fool, with the unpalatable choice between taking a hit on your credit or paying the exorbitant bill.
Health care needs to operate under the same rules as auto mechanics. Consumers should get a written estimate for all services before anything is done. (This can be waived in the case of a true medical emergency where time is of the essence.) These estimates should take into account what their insurance will pay, and what the patient will owe. This should be easy to do in the year 2015, with everything being computerized and connected to the internet. Auto mechanics quickly got on board for this and made this system work, so the health insurance industry (where there is MUCH more money) can easily do so.
The "negotiated rate" BS should be eliminated and made illegal. Currently, doctors charge two rates -- one for in-network patients, and one for everyone else. The same procedure that would cost an uninsured or out-of-network patient $3000 can cost just $300 for in-network. Again, that's garbage, and not how insurance should work. Everyone should be charged the same price for the same services, with the "network" status only affecting how much the insurance pays. So for that $300 procedure, in-network would pay $260 of it, while out-of-network would pay $120, and people without insurance would have to cover it all on their own. There's no reason for these BS inflated prices, and often this is the major factor which runs people into huge medical bills, especially during hospital stays.
Same with prescription drugs. Should be one constant price for everyone, and insurance network should only determine what percentage the patient has to pay.
There needs to be different tiers of individual plans related to how many doctors are covered, and these doctors need to be on full-year contracts to where they can't change their mind in the middle. The coverage of doctors needs to be made clear to all consumers, and the list of covered doctors needs to be complete, accurate, and easy to access.
Regarding individual plans, those with preexisting conditions need to pay more than those who are healthy. If they cannot afford this (based upon their income), the government can subsidize it. Right now, everyone pays the same thing, which is a huge flaw in the plan. A really sick version of Bill Gates would pay the same thing for individual coverage as a healthy middle-class guy the same age making $50k/year. That's ridiculous. I'm not saying to charge the rich more for health care, but to charge the expensive-to-insure more, with either the individual or the government picking up the difference (depending upon income).
You say doctors are paid too much. I partially agree, but also partially disagree. It's not so much a matter of how much doctors are making overall, but how they're making it. It is easy to game the existing medical billing system to charge exorbitant amounts of money for simple tests and procedures, or to break down a single visit or procedure into 15 different expensive parts. This is ripe for fraud, and is much of the reason insurance companies keep having to raise their rates. They are aware of this problem, but it's difficult to fight. The entire medical billing system needs to be simplified, and they need to eliminate the itemized-charge system for many visits, tests, and procedures. An example of this occurred when a friend of mine went for a checkup, and the doctor asked her near the end, "So, is everything okay? Ever have any recurring pains?" She answered that her stomach hurt a bit more than usual, he asked one or two more questions, gave her some general advice (no tests or further examination), and then she got doubled-billed for both a checkup and a gastro exam. When she called to complain, the office told her, "You told the doctor your stomach hurt", and they fought hard to keep the charge on there before finally backing down. That's BS and things like that shouldn't be allowed.
Those are just a few ideas on how to reform health care.
I'm sure I could do a hell of a lot better on the job of writing a reform bill than any of the clowns who put the Obamacare mess together. I definitely wouldn't have paid $650 million to develop a failsite that crashed constantly and was full of bugs.
Anyway, in short, this was a mess, and Obama should be embarrassed.
It's hilarious that we as a society think everyone can be a dr, a lawyer, an engineer. Some people are just fucking stupid. Why can't we just accept that?
I read and enjoyed it. I can't disagree with your points ( except it is your job) Just expressing ideas that could snowball into a proper solution is much better than just complaining. The republicans just complained and shut down the government. I have yet to hear an alternative from the republican base that addresses the huge need for health care reform. The common refrain was always status quo. The blame is on Democrats and Republicans. This is not just Obama's fault. I agree Obama care is a work in progress but both parties are to tied to their personal agendas to just do the right thing.
You addressed the main faults pretty well. I also agree with ftp in that mal practice insurance really affects doctors prices. The government should step in to reduce the price or limit the exposure for doctors to obtain mal practice insurance. The main issues are the drug companies and doctor prices. Obama care does nothing to change these.
Again I feel it is our job to express solutions. Both democrats and republicans politicians have proven they are incapable of doing that job.
It's absurd to think that those with preexisting conditions should pay more than those without. 90 plus percent of those with serious preexisting conditions are to ill over long periods of time to be moneymakers. Such a republican idea. Gee those with money are healthier overall than those without. Let's charge them more and rich me less and let the government pay with funds they don't have because the rich are not properly taxed on their income. Sickening.
I can say that many many doctors have taken early retirements since the beginning od the year. I routinely have to wait on the phone 1.5 to 2 hours to leave a message for a doctor concerning a patient. People are waiting very long for appointments. Very much like socialized medicine but everyone is paying out the ass for it. Canada does have a lot on us. I see the current healthcare system eliminating whatever is left of middle class money.
I went in for a simple procedure. On my bill was a 300 dollar facility fee meaning just for walking in building was 300 dollars. Those with substandard insurance are stuck with this ridiculous charge. The Cleveland clinic had broke ground for an almost 800 million dollar cancer hospital. I wonder what their facility fee will be. Hospitals and clinics need to be just that, not almost billion dollar taj mahals. People are not the focus of healthcare anymore.
Why are you turning this into class warfare? Did you read anything I wrote?
I said that they should charge more for those with pre-existing conditions, and those who cannot afford the higher rates will be subsidized by the government. Pretty progressive idea I'm floating here, and instead you flip out and think I'm looking to screw the poor. Huh?
Being sick costs money. The idea of insuring those with preexisting conditions came from the valid compassionate ideology that being sick shouldn't completely bankrupt you due to lack of access to insurance. I totally understand that, and can sympathize with those in that position. I actually support the very basic premise of Obamacare getting health care for everyone, but that doesn't mean the sick people should be paying the same rates as those who are healthy, especially rich sick people. It means that, instead of the old model where you need to sell your house in order to pay for your treatments, now you are instead paying $1000/month for your insurance when the healthy people are paying $250. You're still paying more, but it's reasonable and no longer catastrophic to your finances. It is absurd to say that sick people with expensive preexisting conditions should not pay a penny more for insurance than the healthy people who are supporting the system in the first place.
You are an advocate for the single payer model. If the single payer model could be done correctly and efficiently, I would also support it. But it can't. Look at how badly the government bungled a simple website. They spent $650 million this (I'd love to see the way the government was billed for this), and then it didn't even work. Embarrassingly, after the healthcare.gov debacle, two 20-year-olds designed a better version of pretty much the same thing for free. So the $650 million website people are the ones you want running this nation's healthcare?
Let me guess. Your solution is just to raise taxes on the rich and everything else will fall into place, right?
This all falls under the umbrella of medical billing reform, which was sorely lacking from Obamacare. I agree with you here, and already covered this.
Did you read some of my suggestions from earlier today? What did you think of them?
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