Elementary School Shooting

[Walter Sobchak]

Assuming you're not talking about me, because no sane person could think the Walter Sobchak character in the Big Lebowski glorifies guns.

First level thinking: Walter Sobchak in the Big Lebowski glorifies guns.
A bit deeper: I promote a movie with my avatar that has a guy with a gun in it.
Almost abstract: I not only put my money into supporting a movie that features guns and violence, I made an online persona that features said character carrying the thing that I publicly decry, making me a hypocrite of the highest order.

Completely retarded

[Walter Sobchak]

Site is running fine for me, but please let me know if you're experiencing mass slowdowns.

I was experiencing very slow or no loading, and this was the only site. Seems to be better now though.

[BeerAndPoker]

Facebook page of the Ryan Lanza originally from Newtown (the one I believe to be the shooter) was just deleted.

Check the first post of this guy who was a friend of his out:

http://www.facebook.com/robbajor

nevermind, I seen your post above.

Interesting, this guy Rob that I clicked on off Ryan's facebook that was deleted well his post on his wall regarding it not being the right Ryan has been removed.

[backdoorb]

Piers Morgan ‏@piersmorgan

BREAKING: Shooter identified as Ryan Lanza, mother was teacher at school. He killed her, too.

Holy shit, took out his anger on those poor kids because he wasnt getting enough attention from his mom

[backdoorb]

I think Druff is wrong (in regard to the pics he posted).

I believe this is the shooter...

www.linkedin.com/pub/ryan-lanza/45/934/9bb

EDIT: Druff may be correct. Either Ryan Lanza or someone else is posting from his FB page claiming he isn't the shooter.

I think there are 2 Ryan Lanzas from New Jersey.

The one you just posted is 26 years old, and from Atco. I don't think he's the shooter.

Here is what I believe to be the innocent Ryan's Myspace, and you'll see he's 26. http://www.myspace.com/bigbuzz

The one I posted is from Hoboken (which is 94 miles from Atco), and I'm not sure of his age, but 24 looks very possible, and the shooter is 24.

Here is what I believe to be the shooter's Facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/rlanza

Very strange.... this is the first one i saw too, with all the pictures you had posted now its deleted...

who would delete his account now? facebook?

[shortbuspoker]

What happened this morning was horrible. There are not enough bans in the world to eliminate the evil that resides in a person's heart.

[Walter Sobchak]

In the past it's been suggested here by Druff and others, that non-Americans shouldn't comment on matters American.

That is arrant nonsense, especially when you see how debate between Americans so often degenerates into extremes of uber-liberal vs uber-conservative.

So, from an outsider's perspective:

As the cliche goes, the problem is not with guns, it is with the people who have and use guns, and the culture within which they reside.

Someone suggested earlier that such atrocities don't happen in places with tight gun controls and/or fewer guns.

That isn't true.

Think Anders Breivik in Norway, Dunblane or Hungerford massacres in the UK for examples of atrocities in countries with tight gun controls. That said, these instances are rarer, and the overall rate of gun violence is lower.

But, if you really want to get an insight into root causes and possible solutions to your problem with guns then try and find a country that like yours has lots of guns in private hands, but without your gun problems, and think about why the difference.

The country you should think about is Switzerland.

Switzerland COMPELS male citizens to hold guns and be trained in their use. In effect the citizenry is a militia, a step beyond your "right to bear arms".

And yet, the rate of gun crime violence in Switzerland is minute, while yours is catastrophically high.

This is simply because of the different cultures. Whilst Switzerland has had violence and tensions in its history, it has generally been unified, and peaceful, with a commitment to neutrality and relative isolationism.

America, by contrast, was formed in essence by armed invasion by people united to some degree by the British "imperialist mindset" but also with significant non-cohesive tendencies due in part to the high proportion of non-conformist religionists, Deist freethinkers etc, who had consciously sought out the New World as a refuge from the hegemony of the old.

The subsequent formative years of transition from a colony and early history as a nation involved slavery/emancipation, armed rebellion, civil war, high levels of banditry and armed gangs, and high levels of immigration from all corners of the globe.

Despite this, you have, from many perspectives built one of the greatest nations/empires in human history, but one whose celebration of individualism and acceptance of inequalities cast a shadow over your undoubted achievements.

Those forces, and others, lead America to have an innate tendency towards violence. That can change, but it will take a long time. It definitely will not be changed by putting an armed guard in every classroom, arming every citizen, or building and filling more and more prisons. You don't cure an alcoholic by handing him a case of whisky.

It could be achieved, gradually, with a steady disarmament and pacification, by a cultural shift, and one which resolves the never yet resolved contradiction between being the UNITED States of America, and being the United STATES of America.

Achieve that and you will again be revered by the rest of the world as you were when you put the first man on the moon, and seen as a true leading society, one that leads through authority, not through firepower.

p.s. Flame away, just don't shoot.

Agree with most of this. It's amazing how people from outside the US can see things so clearly while Americans themselves are so blind to it.

One thing I disagree with is your comment about this sort of thing happening in other countries. The Norway event was once in a lifetime. Here it's a couple times a week!

[backdoorb]

Facebook page of the Ryan Lanza originally from Newtown (the one I believe to be the shooter) was just deleted.

This is what I was referring to...

Fake, is this the page? : http://www.facebook.com/#!/jim.duran.33?fref=ts

Some idiot name Jim duran changeed his name to ryan lanza to play games... he should be screwed with imo

[Cokehead]

This is what I was referring to...

Fake, is this the page? : http://www.facebook.com/#!/jim.duran.33?fref=ts

Some idiot name Jim duran changeed his name to ryan lanza to play games... he should be screwed with imo

What a POS.

I thought the WASNT ME WASNT ME crap didnt seem like a real reaction from a guy accused of killing 18 kids.

If a dude with yuor name shot up a elementary school and everyone was blaming you, would you put out a serious statement making sure people understood, or would you post WASNT ME, ON THE BUS NOW, WASNT ME.

[BeerAndPoker]

So now one of his brothers was found dead in a different location?

[devidee]

This is what I was referring to...

Fake, is this the page? : http://www.facebook.com/#!/jim.duran.33?fref=ts

Some idiot name Jim duran changeed his name to ryan lanza to play games... he should be screwed with imo

I'm so glad I deleted my FB page.

[Cokehead]

Also I gotta laugh at you euros who think just making guns illegal in the US will fix things here. 20 year process? WTF? So even if that worked, which it wouldnt, we are supposed to sit and be the criminals bitches for the next 2 decades?

Pretty out of touch IMO.

[adamantium]

Thank god for the NRA since guns dont kill people, people kill people etc

[Wiganer]

Also I gotta laugh at you euros who think just making guns illegal in the US will fix things here. 20 year process? WTF? So even if that worked, which it wouldnt, we are supposed to sit and be the criminals bitches for the next 2 decades?

Pretty out of touch IMO.

There aren't enough facepalm gifs in the world to reply properly to that.

[limitles]

Also I gotta laugh at you euros who think just making guns illegal in the US will fix things here. 20 year process? WTF? So even if that worked, which it wouldnt, we are supposed to sit and be the criminals bitches for the next 2 decades?

Pretty out of touch IMO.

Why don't they allow guns on airplanes?

[tony bagadonuts]

It's still sad. It's still a major problem of people needlessly dying. Many of these deaths are not self-inflicted, such as victims of drunk drivers.

If you want to prove me wrong, cut it out with the personal attacks and political talking points. Mourn the death of the children. Don't turn this tragedy into an episode of Crossfire.

Tragedies are a call to action. "Don't make it political" is cop-out bullshit.

Horseshit.

You jumping on this tragedy 5 minutes after it happened to pimp your agenda is extremely bad form.

Let me give you a clue about something...nobody gives a shit what you think about this right now. You want to debate American gun laws, fine, but can it wait until tomorrow?

[4Dragons]

In the past it's been suggested here by Druff and others, that non-Americans shouldn't comment on matters American.

That is arrant nonsense, especially when you see how debate between Americans so often degenerates into extremes of uber-liberal vs uber-conservative.

So, from an outsider's perspective:

As the cliche goes, the problem is not with guns, it is with the people who have and use guns, and the culture within which they reside.

Someone suggested earlier that such atrocities don't happen in places with tight gun controls and/or fewer guns.

That isn't true.

Think Anders Breivik in Norway, Dunblane or Hungerford massacres in the UK for examples of atrocities in countries with tight gun controls. That said, these instances are rarer, and the overall rate of gun violence is lower.

But, if you really want to get an insight into root causes and possible solutions to your problem with guns then try and find a country that like yours has lots of guns in private hands, but without your gun problems, and think about why the difference.

The country you should think about is Switzerland.

Switzerland COMPELS male citizens to hold guns and be trained in their use. In effect the citizenry is a militia, a step beyond your "right to bear arms".

And yet, the rate of gun crime violence in Switzerland is minute, while yours is catastrophically high.

This is simply because of the different cultures. Whilst Switzerland has had violence and tensions in its history, it has generally been unified, and peaceful, with a commitment to neutrality and relative isolationism.

America, by contrast, was formed in essence by armed invasion by people united to some degree by the British "imperialist mindset" but also with significant non-cohesive tendencies due in part to the high proportion of non-conformist religionists, Deist freethinkers etc, who had consciously sought out the New World as a refuge from the hegemony of the old.

The subsequent formative years of transition from a colony and early history as a nation involved slavery/emancipation, armed rebellion, civil war, high levels of banditry and armed gangs, and high levels of immigration from all corners of the globe.

Despite this, you have, from many perspectives built one of the greatest nations/empires in human history, but one whose celebration of individualism and acceptance of inequalities cast a shadow over your undoubted achievements.

Those forces, and others, lead America to have an innate tendency towards violence. That can change, but it will take a long time. It definitely will not be changed by putting an armed guard in every classroom, arming every citizen, or building and filling more and more prisons. You don't cure an alcoholic by handing him a case of whisky.

It could be achieved, gradually, with a steady disarmament and pacification, by a cultural shift, and one which resolves the never yet resolved contradiction between being the UNITED States of America, and being the United STATES of America.

Achieve that and you will again be revered by the rest of the world as you were when you put the first man on the moon, and seen as a true leading society, one that leads through authority, not through firepower.

p.s. Flame away, just don't shoot.

I love what you say here, but we here do feel that we are under threat of takeover or usurping of power from within to take away what so many have died to protect. Those ghosts live on in all of us and we see the rest of the world not being able to voice their opinions without being dragged off by police. The crystal night happened because of a socialist that took away all the guns (to protect the children). People like Americans protect people like you from yourselves. Leadership devolves over time and can create situations that more resemble Hitler than Lincoln. It happened, it will happen again and when it does, you will not be calling France to save your weaponless ass.

If there is no Second Amendment, there is no First Amendment. Book it.

[bukowski72]

Edit.

Looks like it is his brother.

[badguy23]

I was going to post a video of him when he was at college being asked about the Daily Show's impact on elections but it has been deleted. Seemed very mellow on the vid.

Andrew & Ryan Interview - YouTube
"An compilation interview with Quinnipiac students Andrew Vazzano and Ryan Lanza about The Daily Show and The Colbert Report."

Then Druff that was his facebook if this picture is right.. Who the fuck was saying that shit that it wasnt him?

[4Dragons]

I was going to post a video of him when he was at college being asked about the Daily Show's impact on elections but it has been deleted. Seemed very mellow on the vid.

Andrew & Ryan Interview - YouTube
"An compilation interview with Quinnipiac students Andrew Vazzano and Ryan Lanza about The Daily Show and The Colbert Report."

Then Druff that was his facebook if this picture is right.. Who the fuck was saying that shit that it wasnt him?

would be funny as hell if fox put up the wrong pic, lololllllllawsuit time.