Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Deal View Post

Did Ben Shapiro fail to tell you that al-Qaeda was Israel's/CIA terror group used to take down Gaddaffi in Libya, fight the houthis in Yemen and attempt to overthrow Syria? Hezbollah fought against them in Syria while Israel/CIA gave al-Qaeda weapons and air support, Russia took them out and saved Syria from becoming part of Greater Israel. Look up operation timber sycamore.

Ben likes to explain the history of Hezbollah by saying it formed in 1982 because they hated Jews. Just like he uses Oct 7 as the starting point for Hamas attacking occupying israel.

Hezbollah started after Israel brutally attacked Lebanon in 1978 and 1982 causing humanitarian crisis and killing civilians indiscriminately, as they like to do. It was either fight back or become part of Greater Israel. They chose to fight. There is no way that Israel repeating the brutality against civilians in both Gaza and Lebenon is going to lead to anything but the cycle repeating itself.

I don't know much about Saudia Arabia but it appears on the surface that they have started leaning towards Russia/China/Iran as strategic partners versus going down with the West. China helped negotiate peace between them and Iran. They have applied for entry into BRICS. Their population hates Israel, so leadership is safer on the other side. They may be hedging bets and sitting on the fence to see how things develop. They were on a path to create better ties with Israel but Israels actions in Gaza has reversed it. W for Hamas. Arabs don't care about their own lives while they are being brutally occupied. They fight and die for a future where they are not subjugated by eastern european Jews. Your statement that Palestinians have 'control' of Gaza is laughable, they were shoved off their land and are being occupied in that small area. That was never a solution.
Much like you accuse Ben Shapiro of whitewashing Israel's motives and painting Arabs as evil, you are basically the reverse of that, and you don't even see it.

The only correct thing you stated above was that Israel's recent war in Gaza harmed their relations with the Saudis. That's true. And that's what is suspected as the real motivation for the 10/7 attacks. Iran expected that Israel would respond by attacking Hamas, which would then harm their rapidly improving relations with the Saudis. Hamas itself had nothing to gain (and everything to lose) by attacking Israel on 10/7, so it appears something else must have been at play.

Hamas has been happy with their control of Gaza since 2005. The people of Gaza, not so much... but that's because Hamas hogs all the resources for themselves. Even if you want to make the point that it's Israel's fault regarding the misery in Gaza, that still doesn't explain the 10/7 attacks. There was no realistic scenario where those attacks would improve things for Gaza, either short or long term.

You ignore the fact that these groups are under control of Iran. They are doing Iran's bidding. They were likely manipulated, and made to believe that Iran would use their resources to back them, if Israel were to retaliate.

This is a proxy war. It's not an inspiring tale of brave freedom fighters attacking the cruel colonists.
3 things to comment on:
  1. If you have a specific beef with any of the facts stated please present the alternative view. Nothing I stated is the least bit controversial and easy for me to backup with primary sources.
  2. I agree both Hamas and Hezbollah are supported by Iran, but they are not controlled by them. It's not like they need incentive to fight against being colonized, they do need support though.
  3. It is a proxy war, but it's not Iran versus Israel. It's global hegemony or "Rules based International order" versus International law and the multi-polar world. China and Russia are involved too. They have both held joint military operations with Iran for the last 5 years. There will not be a war against Iran without Russia being directly involved and China indirectly.