Merge kills all player to player transfers -- are they cash poor?

[Dan Druff]

The 2+2 post that Chinamaniac linked is by a Merge regular who also runs an affiliate site. He seems particularly close to Merge these days and is very pro-Merge, so I would take anything he reports with a grain of salt.

On one hand, he probably has access to information that we don't, but on the other hand, he's not likely to report anything bad, given his position there.

He actually posts on this site occasionally as "HowQuaint".

There are various scenarios that could be at play here. Some are harmless, and some are very ominous. It is tough to tell where we really stand right now.

Among the possibilities:

1) This is simply a move to make it even tougher for sites like Black Chip to offer secret rakeback.

2) This is a move to make it more difficult for smaller skins to fund its players, thus directing people over to Merge-preferred sites like Carbon.

3) Merge is cash-poor at the moment, and this is a way to decrease cashouts.

4) Merge is having payment processor issues right now, and this is a way to stall cashouts.

5) There is some legal issue at play, which is why America's Cardoom and Lock have also lowered their player-to-player transfer limits without a valid explanation.

6) This is a way to make it less appealing for pros to play on the site, as pros and semi-pros are more likely to receive player-to-player transfers, while fish are more likely to deposit directly.

It could be any of the above, or even something else that I haven't thought of.

There are rumors that this will be undone in mid-November, so I guess we'll see what happens.

[Dan Druff]

Thinking about it - seems like the games are going to be amazing on merge (at least at MSNL) but you won't be able to take any $ out.

wheeeee

There's already been an improvement at the limit games, but that might be because of football season.

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

it's kinda curious that he's willing to buy up a large amount of merge money at this point...

if the site was in deep shit i doubt he would be doing that...even at a discounted rate...

[SetofKs]

This move is a terrible business decision unless merge is cash poor, and needs to slow down the rate that money is being cashed out, and is doing this to stop american's from transferring to non americans to cash out. I wouldn't trust them one bit, and definitely wouldn't be listening to what some big affiliates for the site have to say on 2p2 about this situation. Yes, it will pretty much only stop american pros/semi pros from playing there, but pretty much the only people that play this site anyway are american pros/semi pros/former pros that are poker fiends and are just using it to get their fix. GG merge.

[DJ_Chaps]

This move by Merge, is in fact permanent.


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2242

[RichardBrodiesCombover.]

Back on topic, faggots.


This move by Merge, is in fact permanent.


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2242

China still won't believe it.

[SixToedPete]

Earlier this week ACR and Lock put a limit on the amount you can transfer.

Maybe Lock did but ACR, Americas Card Room actually increased P2P transfer limits!

This was ACR's announcement from two days ago:

Player2Player transfer limits increased!
Submitted 2 days ago


Americas Cardroom announces big increase to its P2P transfer limits


Fast-growing online poker site Americas Cardroom is hitting poker players with great news this evening. The US-friendly online poker site is increasing its limits for Player to Player Transfers (P2P). The news comes shortly after several competitors in the market decided to restrict poker players with the ability to make P2P transfers between player accounts.

P2P transfers have been increased from $100 to $1,000 daily. The new weekly limit has been raised from $250 weekly to $2,000 and the previous monthly limit of $1,000 has been elevated to $5,000. "Here we go again with more improvements designed for poker players who make use of the Player to Player transfer feature," stated Americas Cardroom spokesman Michael Harris.

[ftpjesus]

See article over in Poker Discussion. Not sure if this is connected to the P2P issue on Merge or not. Company is apparently trying to get an Indian Tribal conglomeration to get Online gaming (and not just Poker) through the gambling allowance Tribes have through the BIA.

[Dan Druff]

This is from 2+2:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-info-1262650/

At the risk of being called an Eli-like troll, I am going to share information I have received concerning the liquidity of Merge. I am actually a long time poster here but just created a second account to protect my source. My source is someone who is intimately familiar with Merge executives and the inner workings of the company. I will give you a modified cliffs of what I know about Merge's liquidity at this point.

1. Merge is having serious cash flow issues. Merge's main reason for prohibiting P2P transfers was to help with these issues. They simply cannot keep up with all of their payout requests, many of which come from ROW players who are WD'ing funds for American players. The legal ramifications of P2P transfers (and staying under the DOJ's radar) were a factor in Merge's decision to eliminate transfers, but a very small one. Cash flow issues were the overwhelming factor behind this decision.

2. In a further attempt to help with cash flow, Merge has started charging the skins extremely high rates for payouts. The reasoning behind this is two-fold. They obviously aim to have more funds available for payouts. However, these increased rates are forcing many of the skins to operate at a loss. In turn, Merge is then trying to purchase these skins for pennies on the dollar. Merge has attempted to purchase at least two prominent skins in the last month with lowball offers and has been rejected. However, it is very difficult for these skins to operate in the black with the increased payout rates being charged by Merge. Certain skins are seriously contemplating legal action in the very near future.

3. Merge was not happy initially with Carbon wanting to move to their own cashier. In fact, they blocked it for months before formally agreeing to it in early October. Again, cash flow issues led Merge to allow Carbon to use their own cashier. Other skins have tried to follow Carbon's lead but have been blocked by Merge at this point.

4. Merge is hoping the P2P restrictions and Carbon cashier help with their financial issues. The lowering of tournament guarantees is another way for Merge to help themselves with these issues. However, there is no guarantee at this point that Merge can remain solvent. I asked my source if Merge players were in any danger of being involved in another FT situation. His response, in a nutshell, was yes.

5. The reasons for Merge's financial difficulties are not entirely clear. However, Merge is essentially the poker arm of Sportsbook.com. My source, while not told this directly, has strong reason to believe that being in the middle of the NFL season has slowed down payments. The tournament guarantees, VIP program, and rakeback payments contributed as well.

6. Merge is not planning to go under, but as my source said, "Who is?". They are planning to stay in the US market and hope the aforementioned changes can return things (payouts, cash flow, etc) to the way they were over the summer. That is far from a guarantee however.

The above was posted by a dupe account named 3MB, who will not identify himself.

kahntrutahn, who posts here as HowQuaint, insists that this guy is mostly incorrect. kahntrutahn is a big Merge affiliate at this point. He has also been offering to buy up Merge $, in order to put his money where his mouth is.

Black Chip Poker (a Merge skin) confirmed today that Merge transfers are going away permanently, which contradicts claims that they would return in 2 weeks, when the new Carbon cashier is completed.

kahntrutahn also claims that he believes (but has not seen proof) that Merge funds are segregated.

I do not believe Merge funds are segregated. If they were, I think they would be more up-front and direct about this claim, and perhaps provide some proof (such as third-party verification). This would be very reassuring to players who are reeling from the FTP debacle.

I personally believe that the removal of player-to-player transfers as of today is an ominous sign for Merge. It definitely reduces their cashout liability to US players, who before were trading money with non-US players, who could cash out quickly through wallets like Moneybookers.

I think that, at the very least, this is a power play by Merge to crush the smaller skins (and force them to sell at pennies on the dollar), and is very possibly a sign of major trouble at Merge.

I would suggest that you do NOT deposit any money onto any Merge site until we get some answers as to what is going on.

[SetofKs]

What is the point of offering to buy up merge chips when the site has banned p2p transfers? How exactly would that work? This reminds me of minted. Right before they went under they started making strange rules like this that had never been heard of before that would slow the rate of cashouts, such as making a rule that players that had won more than $1000 on the week could not sit at tables with losing players.

[chinamaniac]

From what I am told the the check problem (current checks on 8 weeks) is partly due to NFL is in swing and players from sportsbook have helped flood the cashier. Before this batch which is going on 8 weeks they were taking as little as 1 and max of 4-5 depending where u were in line.

From what I have been told it is very possible that all skins like BCP/RPM/HERO etc.. and others who use the Merge cashier should speed up because 50 % of the player base is Sportsbook/Carbon/PDC/Aced and they are moving the new cashier so that should free up space for withdraws.

Carbon rep posted yesterday or the day before that when the new cashier opens Monday that withdraws would be increased to possibly 10k per transaction. I have also heard the debit cards may be an option as well. The cashier was supposed to be open today but now I have heard it will be rolled out Monday or early next week. Will be interesting to see how this move affects all withdraws and their speeds.

Also players who want speedy cashouts on Merge can always use the western union option. After 3 successful WU deposits you can withdraw that way too. I did my first deposit of these last night for $100 and it cost me $107 and they reimburse up to $15 per month I believe in fees. You can only deposit 1 time per week with WU but after 3 times that withdraw usually shows up in your cashier and you can pull off $900 per week and the fee is like $30.

I am of the belief that they are not cash strapped but more they have been flooded with withdraws and they dont keep a ton in processors at a time. The fact that Khan was willing to buy 100k with all of these rumors flying around makes me feel better too.

I am also of the belief they want to consolidate or buyout some of the major skins because they have hit a point where the growth has leveled off and they think it is time to try and get as much of the player pools as possible on their own brands before these skins have an opportunity to leave.

Which leads me to why skins would want to leave? Well for 1 their is brand new management at Merge and strong rumors point to the fact that they are to be pro Sportsbook/Carbon/Aced/PDC and they are dealing with different people than they were just a few months back

[chinamaniac]

What is the point of offering to buy up merge chips when the site has banned p2p transfers?

TO get a discount from people panicking and trying to move money off. Especially with a new cashier opening and the strong possibility of all cashier withdraw speeds increasing on all merge based sites

[Deal]

A cash shortfall is the only logical explanation. All other theories are hopeful thinking and fall apart under scrutiny. Merge would not be acting so cagey if they had everyone covered.

[Crowe Diddly]

A cash shortfall is the only logical explanation.

It may be the only "logical" explanation, but these are poker rooms/networks we're talking about here. The illogical explanations are just as possible.

[Deal]

A cash shortfall is the only logical explanation.

It may be the only "logical" explanation, but these are poker rooms/networks we're talking about here. The illogical explanations are just as possible.

Don't ignore the signs, she is cheating on you.

[chinamaniac]

A cash shortfall is the only logical explanation..

If they roll out a new cashier Monday with fast speeds to withdraw large amounts then the cash flow theory is prob not the issue.

[Deal]

A cash shortfall is the only logical explanation..

If they roll out a new cashier Monday with fast speeds to withdraw large amounts then the cash flow theory is prob not the issue.

Ok, however, if they rollout a new excuse in place of the new cashier then you need to be skeptical.

[chinamaniac]

If they roll out a new cashier Monday with fast speeds to withdraw large amounts then the cash flow theory is prob not the issue.

Ok, however, if they rollout a new excuse in place of the new cashier then you need to be skeptical.

Yes, we will see how things unfold starting Monday into the next weeks

[SetofKs]

What is the point of offering to buy up merge chips when the site has banned p2p transfers?

TO get a discount from people panicking and trying to move money off. Especially with a new cashier opening and the strong possibility of all cashier withdraw speeds increasing on all merge based sites

I obviously know why somebody would offer to buy chips at a discount. I was wondering how does this guy plan to receive the chips from players he buys them from? Chip dump?

[chinamaniac]

TO get a discount from people panicking and trying to move money off. Especially with a new cashier opening and the strong possibility of all cashier withdraw speeds increasing on all merge based sites

I obviously know why somebody would offer to buy chips at a discount. I was wondering how does this guy plan to receive the chips from players he buys them from? Chip dump?

Transfers were open until Nov 1st @ midnight.