Quote Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
Quote Originally Posted by vpbob View Post

The argument that Russia is justified because we broke the binding agreement not to expand NATO, complete Russian lies.

The U.S. did not promise to limit NATO expansion. According to whom? Gorbachev.

“The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”

I don't ask you to look it up. Here is the citation, with the quote that Putin and you keep citing.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-fr...achev-says-no/

If the promise to limit NATO expansion was so important to Russia, why was it not put into writing?

An agreement that was put into writing was the Budapest Memorandum, in which Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchanges for certain assurances.

According to the three memoranda, Russia, the US and the UK confirmed their recognition of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine becoming parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and effectively abandoning their nuclear arsenal to Russia and that they agreed to the following:
• Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
• Refrain from the threat or the use of force against the signatory.
• Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
• Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
• Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against the signatory.
• Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.

Putin is the only one breaking a binding commitment here. Asserting otherwise is abject stupidity.
Putin invaded Ukraine, a country adjacent to Russia, over security concerns.

The United States invaded Iraq, a country over 6000 miles away from it's shores, over security concerns. At least that's what we were told.

So why the double standard? Why does the United States have a right to invade countries but Russia doesn't? Do we have more rights than everyone else?
There were no security concerns. According to whom? Prigozhin.

In an interview from the past month, he said:

"On 24 February [2022] there was nothing extraordinary happening there. Now the Ministry of Defence is trying to deceive the public, deceive the president and tell a story that there was some crazy aggression by Ukraine, that - together with the whole NATO bloc - Ukraine was planning to attack us.

"The war was needed... so that Shoigu could become a Marshal, so that he could get a second Hero Star… the war wasn't for demilitarising or de-nazifying Ukraine. It was needed for an extra star."

Of course this was when Prigozhin thought he could separate Putin from the Ministry of Defense.

If the Russian people and military support the war, why was a ragtag army of 25,000 able to make it to within 100 miles of Moscow in a day.

I don't watch CNN. I do read old Ronald Reagan speeches.

"We in America have learned bitter lessons from two World Wars: It is better to be here ready to protect the peace, than to take blind shelter across the sea, rushing to respond only after freedom is lost. We’ve learned that isolationism never was and never will be an acceptable response to tyrannical governments with an expansionist intent."

“Freedom is not the sole prerogative of a chosen few; it is the universal right of all God’s children.” America’s “mission” was to “nourish and defend freedom and democracy.” More specifically, Reagan declared that, “We must stand by our democratic allies. And we must not break faith with those who are risking their lives—on every continent, from Afghanistan to Nicaragua—to defy Soviet-supported aggression and secure rights which have been ours from birth.” “Support for freedom fighters is self-defense.”