Hamas hits Israel in unprecedented attack.

[Sanlmar]

Prior to the October 7 attacks, according to a widely-cited poll conducted by the Arab Barometer, a large majority (67 percent) of Gazans said that they had no trust in the long-standing Hamas-led government. Nearly three-quarters said that there was corruption in the government.

Another pre-October 7 poll conducted by the Washington Institute similarly found that a clear majority (70 percent) of Gazans said they’d prefer the Palestinian Authority to assume responsibility from Hamas—though the same poll showed that a smaller majority (52 percent) still had a somewhat favourable opinion of Hamas.


However….



Subsequent polling however seems to find broader support for Hamas and its tactics among the Palestinian population. A recent survey of Gaza and West Bank Palestinians by the Arab World Research and Development (AWRD) group found that more than 75 percent of respondents said that they support “the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on October 7.”

The same poll found that a large majority of respondents (85 percent) rejected the idea of co-existence with Israel including a two-state solution. This finding conflicts with the pre-October 7 poll by the Arab Barometer which found that 54 percent said that they supported the two-state solution outlined in the 1993 Oslo Accords. The competing findings may be explained by different methodologies or the evolving circumstances in the region.

Israel killing my mother, baby sister or little brother. I got no job but I have new plans now.

Prosperity tends to moderate hate. Too late Bibi. Dumbass.

[BetCheckBet]

TEL AVIV, Israel — Israeli officials obtained Hamas’ battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.

The approximately 40-page document, which Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.

The translated document, which was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters.

[Orko]

So yea, imo Oct 7th was a false flag.
A couple of US researcherRs found insider trading that suggests Israel knew Oct 7th was coming.
Since it's Israel they word as if some rogue actor did the trading and now the Israelis are investiging. I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of this, wink wink.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...ck-2023-12-04/


This pattern is so common i'm declaring it as a new rule.
RE: An Israeli accusation is actually a confession

I think i found out why too, besides the fact they're cold blooded genocidal maniacs.
I'm not gonna tell you, you need to read this imortant article.
https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-fools-on-capitol-hill/

[hesterandeldridge]

So yea, imo Oct 7th was a false flag.
A couple of US researcherRs found insider trading that suggests Israel knew Oct 7th was coming.
Since it's Israel they word as if some rogue actor did the trading and now the Israelis are investiging. I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of this, wink wink.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...ck-2023-12-04/


This pattern is so common i'm declaring it as a new rule.
RE: An Israeli accusation is actually a confession

I think i found out why too, besides the fact they're cold blooded genocidal maniacs.
I'm not gonna tell you, you need to read this imortant article.
https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-fools-on-capitol-hill/

whomever profited from buying puts , shorting the market should get exposed. there is a paper trail , how is this not being investigated more ?

was it people on the Hamas side ?

was it people on the Israeli side?

[Orko]

I cannot believe there's people who voted for Biden over Bernie.

Bernie mentions $109,000,000,000 for Ukraine and Israel.
Nothing for Americans. $10 billion so Israel can continue the genocide. Israel is a rich county, they should pay for their own war crimes.

[Tellafriend]

it really is (insert word) that a nation in as much debt as we are simply feel like a cash payment is beneficial for our citizens here. shows us who is our master. pay attention.


but the old testament.... written by who for who? i digress. they will get more of our money b/c apparently our already enormous annual stipend is inadequate for our closest ally --- don't you see all we gain from the r/ship? i continue to digress

[Orko]

Warning, it's powerful.


Israeli holidays are joyeous celebrations of genocide and there's no group they hate more than Christians.
Christians have no idea how much Jews hate them. After the 500 killed in the attack on the christian hospital there was an est 800 christians in all of Gaza..
I imagine theres only a couple hundred left, if that.

.
Meanwhi Israel is at the UNat the UN condemming the world for silence over something that probably didn't. even happen. lol.

[Orko]

omg Israel totally knew
and
Bibi was personally warned by Egypt.

The younger generation's eyes are wide open. wow!

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/IsmailogluF/status/1731504181683618099



Im out, this is fucked up.

[Tellafriend]

Israeli holidays are joyeous celebrations of genocide and there's no group they hate more than Christians.
Christians have no idea how much Jews hate them. After the 500 killed in the attack on the christian hospital there was an est 800 christians in all of Gaza..
I imagine theres only a couple hundred left, if that.

it is something to behold. and when think it through, the jews killed the christian's god. pause and reflect on that. and they are america's closest ally. yep, another financial package to a rich nation who is on our annual dole already.

merica is getting what she deserves. 3 generations.

[Tellafriend]

Druff - do you think Israel officials knew the attack was going to happen and let it in order to unleash this destruction of hamas?

bump.

[1dollarboxcar]

omg Israel totally knew
and
Bibi was personally warned by Egypt.

The younger generation's eyes are wide open. wow!

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/IsmailogluF/status/1731504181683618099



Im out, this is fucked up.

it's just mostly a peaceful Genocide....

[simpdog]

How does everyone feel about the US veto-ing the UN resolution for a cease fire

[Texter]

I’m almost older than Kwanzaa.

[Sanlmar]

From the 3 Top University Professors thread.

Kalem was sparring with me. Kalem offered most sensible and honest assessment of Israel v Hamas I’ve come across. Kalem changed my mind. (No one has admitted to changing their mind on PFA before - will I get banned?)

The entire population of Israel is only 9 million. The metro area I live in has a lot more people than this. Israel really cant afford to fight a high casualty war.

The population of Gaza is 2 million with somewhere around 30,000 Hamas fighters who have been entrenched for decades with wide popular support.

Israel's military would be absolutely decimated using your strategy, and probably make them extremely vulnerable not just in the South but also from the East and North. I mean, you can argue Israel shouldn't be in Gaza at all because they dont have any way of winning without the collateral damage being too high, but you cant tell them they have to adopt a strategy that would have tremendous casualties on their side and guarantee they lose. That is a non starter.

Anyways, I dont know if it is the correct strategy or not, but for the first time in a long time Israel appears to actually be fighting to win. For a lot of reasons I think they realize time isn't on their side, and if the Palestinian situation continues to fester any longer, it will be intractable and they will most likely lose on the ground.

Thats war? According to who, since when? Whose rules?

You dont seem to have a great grasp of the history of war. The entire idea that your goal should be to minimize the casualties of your enemy is an extremely recent Western idea, that actually hasn't worked out very well, as Western countries dont ever win wars anymore.

We fought WWII to win it, and did what we had to do to win, which included massive bombing of civilians. And since then the wars we have fought have been more or less optional, we have fought to not win, and we generally have not won.

Countries like China, Syria, Russia, Turkey and the Janjaweed in Sudan certainly dont care about limiting enemy casualties, and they are doing just fine comparatively. Also, I would definitely argue the whole Western liberal notion of "thou shall not bomb your enemies cities" would be immediately thrown out the window if we felt it was a war we actually had to win for our own survival.

Israel is fighting this war like they need to win it to survive. Maybe you dont agree with this assessment, but the idea that any country that has the ability to win a war is just going to lose it on purpose and not survive because "those are the rules" is nonsense.

Do any of the countries I mentioned follow the Geneva Convention? It seems it has always been optional, where Western countries have opted into it to some degree, and no one else even bothers.

I am not sure Israel has any path to surviving in the long run anyways. In 100 years when most of Europe is Islamic non-whites due to demographic shift (and the US majority Hispanic and Black?) it seems that is going to be game over.

However, IF they have a chance to survive they have to solve the Palestinian issue, and the Palestinian leaders realize time is on their side so they are never going to make any peace. There is pretty much no reasonable concession Israel could make that the Palestinians would agree to. So Israel would have to unilaterally force peace if it has any chance of surviving. I dont actually know what Israel's long term game plan is (or if they even have one), but I think it is pretty clear if they keep playing by the rules being dictated to them by the Arab and Western world, there is no way to win.

What am I missing here?

Hamas broke the ceasefire on October 7th with a cross border raid that killed hundreds and shot thousands of missiles into Israel. They broke the recent ceasefire by firing rockets into Israel (maybe they knew the writing was on the wall when Israel demanded back all the young women being kept as sex slaves which was a deal breaker, so Hamas was just getting a few shots in preemptively, I dont know). All indications are the Palestinians are fighting back to the best of their abilities, still committed to the destruction of Israel, and promise more October 7ths. The Palestinian people overwhelmingly support Hamas and the fight against Israel.

So it seems the Palestinians want to fight until Israel is destroyed, and are committed to it, but the expectation is Israel should let them? If not let them win, at least let them permanently maintain the status quo ability to threaten and attack Israel at their discretion, until such time in the future until they can win?

Why would Israel follow these rules?

I have no particular interest in Israel or generally this part of the world. I am pretty confident I will never take a single step anywhere in the entire Middle East, and I am ok with that. I can even accept the world would be a much simpler place if there was no Israel. But there is an Israel, that has been around over 75 years with millions of people, that seems like it wants to survive and not be endlessly attacked by Palestinians intent on a generational struggle to conquer Israel.

And given this, the entire dynamic of the Palestinians get to attack Israel when they want and do whatever they can to conquer Israel (which isn't much right now admittedly) and Israel has to just live with it, makes no sense. What other country would put up with this? Certainly not the United States or any Muslim country. So what are we even doing here?

[David USF]

I would like to believe Hamas will be destroyed forever after the fighting is over, but I know it's probably a pipe dream.

Am Yisroel Chai עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

[desertrunner]

[hesterandeldridge]

How does everyone feel about the US veto-ing the UN resolution for a cease fire

we are warmongers obviously.

13 first world countries out of 14 and 98% of UN members are wrong obviously.


in before the UN is also antisemitic

[Orko]

US Govt official resigns to inform us of several SHOCKING REVELATIONS.

[Kalam]

From the 3 Top University Professors thread.

Kalem was sparring with me. Kalem offered most sensible and honest assessment of Israel v Hamas I’ve come across. Kalem changed my mind. (No one has admitted to changing their mind on PFA before - will I get banned?)

FWIW I am not saying that I think Israel has some great strategy that I expect to work. It just seems most people critical of Israel don't really have a coherent alternative that would allow them to actually survive and thrive, given the circumstances. Which is fine if you dont actually care if there is a nation of Israel that is surviving and thriving. But the people in Israel actually do care, which is going to cause some disconnect between what you think they should do and what they think they should do.

Also, I think we just completely normalize and accept just how bizarre the whole Gaza situation is, and focus solely on Israel's actions but not enough on how the rest of the world is contributing to this problem.

Gaza is basically a refugee camp covering a small area that has turned into a baby making factory with one of the highest birth and growth rates in the history of mankind, that is completely subsidized by outside aid. And on top of this the entire population has been radicalized to support a generational guerrilla war, again completely subsidized by outside aid, that relies on Israel just allowing their guerrilla war to happen.

It really makes no sense at all, and doesn't seem to be doing the people of Gaza any favors. Honestly, I think the rest of the world needs to stop funding the whole enterprise, which would force the Gaza leadership and people to make more rational, peaceful choices; which in the long run would be much more beneficial to the Palestinian people themselves. But it would require them to give up on the political project of reconquering Israel.

[Sanlmar]

From the 3 Top University Professors thread.

Kalem was sparring with me. Kalem offered most sensible and honest assessment of Israel v Hamas I’ve come across. Kalem changed my mind. (No one has admitted to changing their mind on PFA before - will I get banned?)

FWIW I am not saying that I think Israel has some great strategy that I expect to work. It just seems most people critical of Israel don't really have a coherent alternative that would allow them to actually survive and thrive, given the circumstances. Which is fine if you dont actually care if there is a nation of Israel that is surviving and thriving. But the people in Israel actually do care, which is going to cause some disconnect between what you think they should do and what they think they should do.

Also, I think we just completely normalize and accept just how bizarre the whole Gaza situation is, and focus solely on Israel's actions but not enough on how the rest of the world is contributing to this problem.

Gaza is basically a refugee camp covering a small area that has turned into a baby making factory with one of the highest birth and growth rates in the history of mankind, that is completely subsidized by outside aid. And on top of this the entire population has been radicalized to support a generational guerrilla war, again completely subsidized by outside aid, that relies on Israel just allowing their guerrilla war to happen.

It really makes no sense at all, and doesn't seem to be doing the people of Gaza any favors. Honestly, I think the rest of the world needs to stop funding the whole enterprise, which would force the Gaza leadership and people to make more rational, peaceful choices; which in the long run would be much more beneficial to the Palestinian people themselves. But it would require them to give up on the political project of reconquering Israel.

Your description of Gaza - baby making factory and all - could describe Chicago or Baltimore. Where there is no prosperity nothing good results.

How did Netanyahu or anyone else think this would turn out long term? Bibi has been the monarch in Israel for a generation. My answer is he had plans.

Let’s not spoil your previous narrative though. I do not care about Israel particularly. I understand anything goes when survival is at stake.

I specifically do not want to endorse any of it with our aid. Our involvement will only make the Middle East worse anyway. This is on them.