Anyone want to shop at Target in Minneapolis today? (George Floyd police brutality death)

[OSA]

Lots of talk these past 2 weeks about "demilitarizing" police.

Can someone take a crack here at stating why this is a good idea? Seems like the goal is to weaken police so violent mobs can overwhelm and abuse them without consequence.

Either police have authority to use force, or they don't. We shouldn't be weakening them when they do need to use force. Militarized police would have put down these riots quickly, and people would have been more likely to peacefully protest than feel they could escalate to rioting/looting with no consequence.

When I think of demilitarizing police, I think of the North Hollywood Shootout of 1997. where a huge police contingent was outgunned by two dudes with heavy weaponry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

After that and similar incidents, police decided they would be more prepared to deal with heavily violent or threatening situations, and I was all for that.

Pretty strightforward that police are reactionary and it’s better to target reasons for crimes than focus on arrests. It’s better to have police officers working as gang mentors or improving employment and education in hoods. Defunding police altogether is stupid and only the most extreme believe that. But there are legitimate arguments that funding for the aforementioned issues has better return on the dollar than miliarizing police.

I’ll also emphasize that most developed nations do not militarize police and their crime issues are far less severe.

Also the idea that brute force can stop riots is pretty well tested throughout history....

At least 75% of my IG Feed that is supporting BLM are for this. Don't say its a fringe element. Its a very real talking point.

You are taking a very utopia stance on this. There will always be the have's and have not's. Rich people and poor people. Poor people will resort to gangs and violence and illicit activities to make a buck. You cant stop this.

[BetCheckBet]

Pretty strightforward that police are reactionary and it’s better to target reasons for crimes than focus on arrests. It’s better to have police officers working as gang mentors or improving employment and education in hoods. Defunding police altogether is stupid and only the most extreme believe that. But there are legitimate arguments that funding for the aforementioned issues has better return on the dollar than miliarizing police.

I’ll also emphasize that most developed nations do not militarize police and their crime issues are far less severe.

Also the idea that brute force can stop riots is pretty well tested throughout history....

At least 75% of my IG Feed that is supporting BLM are for this. Don't say its a fringe element. Its a very real talking point.

You are taking a very utopia stance on this. There will always be the have's and have not's. Rich people and poor people. Poor people will resort to gangs and violence and illicit activities to make a buck. You cant stop this.

Except there is tons of research showing the above is successful. Hell even some police chiefs have begun to adopt the mentality of an arrest is a failure.

All I have to say is you have crazy friends if they honestly want to abandoned police altogether. Get better educated friends is all I can say.

[duped_samaritan]

At least 75% of my IG Feed that is supporting BLM are for this. Don't say its a fringe element. Its a very real talking point.

You are taking a very utopia stance on this. There will always be the have's and have not's. Rich people and poor people. Poor people will resort to gangs and violence and illicit activities to make a buck. You cant stop this.

Except there is tons of research showing the above is successful. Hell even some police chiefs have begun to adopt the mentality of an arrest is a failure.

All I have to say is you have crazy friends if they honestly want to abandoned police altogether. Get better educated friends is all I can say.

it's a good idea with a bad slogan. "Defund the police" is all someone like Druff needs to hear to declare it a stupid idea and he's not alone.

If you're confused and interested, just google "what does defund the police mean".

[dwai]

At least 75% of my IG Feed that is supporting BLM are for this. Don't say its a fringe element. Its a very real talking point.

You are taking a very utopia stance on this. There will always be the have's and have not's. Rich people and poor people. Poor people will resort to gangs and violence and illicit activities to make a buck. You cant stop this.

Except there is tons of research showing the above is successful. Hell even some police chiefs have begun to adopt the mentality of an arrest is a failure.

All I have to say is you have crazy friends if they honestly want to abandoned police altogether. Get better educated friends is all I can say.

DANG OSA YOU GOT REKT

[BetCheckBet]

Except there is tons of research showing the above is successful. Hell even some police chiefs have begun to adopt the mentality of an arrest is a failure.

All I have to say is you have crazy friends if they honestly want to abandoned police altogether. Get better educated friends is all I can say.

it's a good idea with a bad slogan. "Defund the police" is all someone like Druff needs to hear to declare it a stupid idea and he's not alone.

If you're confused and interested, just google "what does defund the police mean".

I completely agree. Both the right and left have taken it to the extreme. Unfortunately some of those include politicians.

But that typically happens we people can only process a slogan and not take the time to learn about it.
Let’s also not forget one of the biggest reasons for police militarization has been the war on drugs which is a total failure.

[thesidedish]

no teaching kids that cops are anything other than racist scum of the earth!!!

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/twt/status/1270767639045058562

[BCR]

When I think of demilitarizing police, I think of the North Hollywood Shootout of 1997. where a huge police contingent was outgunned by two dudes with heavy weaponry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

After that and similar incidents, police decided they would be more prepared to deal with heavily violent or threatening situations, and I was all for that.

This was the wildest shit ever to watch. Remember it like it was yesterday. Two juiced up dumbasses had a death wish watching Heat way too much. Crazy part is they had gotten away with a few major heists by pure dumb luck and had walked away with almost $2 million iirc.

Then they go do it again thinking you can spend 10 minutes in a bank. Amazing they didn’t kill anyone. They were the only two who died that day. They had killed a security guard in a previous heist of a brinks truck. Certainly the start of an upgrade in weaponry after this, and then 9/11 dropped tanks and drones on every backwater police force across the US who had basically zero crime and no threat from terrorism. In cities it was logical, the nonsensical thing was the waste of billions making rural towns a military. That doesn’t apply to this though.

At least 75% of my IG Feed that is supporting BLM are for this. Don't say its a fringe element. Its a very real talking point.

You are taking a very utopia stance on this. There will always be the have's and have not's. Rich people and poor people. Poor people will resort to gangs and violence and illicit activities to make a buck. You cant stop this.

Except there is tons of research showing the above is successful. Hell even some police chiefs have begun to adopt the mentality of an arrest is a failure.

All I have to say is you have crazy friends if they honestly want to abandoned police altogether. Get better educated friends is all I can say.

You have to remember his friends skew young, gay, and he lives in the most liberal place in-the world outside San Francisco.

I don’t mention any of those things as a slight, and I’m sure he has diverse friends, but just they’re going to skew harder left than the average public by a long damn way just based on location even. In that idealistic crazy left way.

Right now it’s all fuck the police because so many people of all races have bad experiences with police, but let them defund the police and people see spikes in rapes and they start ravaging cool little boutique shops everyone loves, and they’ll be scrambling for the police in a week. Defund the police is a case of horrible branding. No one is that stupid outside maybe Minnesota getting crazy for a month before shit breaks loose.

[thesidedish]

can any of u faggots explain the Vanderpump rules thing?

[sonatine]

[mulva]

[tgull]

no teaching kids that cops are anything other than racist scum of the earth!!!

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/twt/status/1270767639045058562

LOL, this is the party of guys like Big Dick. Hilarious.

[BetCheckBet]

no teaching kids that cops are anything other than racist scum of the earth!!!

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/twt/status/1270767639045058562

LOL, this is the party of guys like Big Dick. Hilarious.

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/herosnvrdie69/status/1270836399806328838

Claims it was a joke. Who the hell knows anymore. Trump uses the same excuse every week...

Also the author of article says its a joke.... So likely just click bait.

[mulva]

when are we going to get the full backstory on george and the white dude?

they worked together and knew each other.

apparently george dabbled into drugs and passed bogus 20's when he wasn't making porn.

was whitey a racist? did he have a tough guy "ima badass cops attitude"?..

did the two have any bad blood?

[MumblesBadly]

Lots of talk these past 2 weeks about "demilitarizing" police.

Can someone take a crack here at stating why this is a good idea? Seems like the goal is to weaken police so violent mobs can overwhelm and abuse them without consequence.

Either police have authority to use force, or they don't. We shouldn't be weakening them when they do need to use force. Militarized police would have put down these riots quickly, and people would have been more likely to peacefully protest than feel they could escalate to rioting/looting with no consequence.

When I think of demilitarizing police, I think of the North Hollywood Shootout of 1997. where a huge police contingent was outgunned by two dudes with heavy weaponry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

After that and similar incidents, police decided they would be more prepared to deal with heavily violent or threatening situations, and I was all for that.

Pretty strightforward that police are reactionary and it’s better to target reasons for crimes than focus on arrests. It’s better to have police officers working as gang mentors or improving employment and education in hoods. Defunding police altogether is stupid and only the most extreme believe that. But there are legitimate arguments that funding for the aforementioned issues has better return on the dollar than miliarizing police.

I’ll also emphasize that most developed nations do not militarize police and their crime issues are far less severe.

Also the idea that brute force can stop riots is pretty well tested throughout history....

Druff only sees the benefit of militarized police in extremely rare cases of some well-armed criminals momentarily outgunning the police versus the more common unintended consequences of the police inventing reasons to deploy as paramilitary units on mostly low or negligible risk targets merely for the career boosts such activities bring to the participating LEOs. That’s why disastrous heavily-armed police raids on innocent citizens are now almost a routine occurrences in America cities these days, and occurring predominantly in poorer neighborhoods where the police are more likely to be able to get approval from superiors to raid given the low risk of political fallout if the raid goes bad.

[Walter Sobchak]

no teaching kids that cops are anything other than racist scum of the earth!!!

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/twt/status/1270767639045058562

LOL, this is the party of guys like Big Dick. Hilarious.

Congratulations on falling for the joke.

[Dan Druff]

Lots of talk these past 2 weeks about "demilitarizing" police.

Can someone take a crack here at stating why this is a good idea? Seems like the goal is to weaken police so violent mobs can overwhelm and abuse them without consequence.

Either police have authority to use force, or they don't. We shouldn't be weakening them when they do need to use force. Militarized police would have put down these riots quickly, and people would have been more likely to peacefully protest than feel they could escalate to rioting/looting with no consequence.

When I think of demilitarizing police, I think of the North Hollywood Shootout of 1997. where a huge police contingent was outgunned by two dudes with heavy weaponry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

After that and similar incidents, police decided they would be more prepared to deal with heavily violent or threatening situations, and I was all for that.

Pretty strightforward that police are reactionary and it’s better to target reasons for crimes than focus on arrests. It’s better to have police officers working as gang mentors or improving employment and education in hoods. Defunding police altogether is stupid and only the most extreme believe that. But there are legitimate arguments that funding for the aforementioned issues has better return on the dollar than miliarizing police.

I’ll also emphasize that most developed nations do not militarize police and their crime issues are far less severe.

Also the idea that brute force can stop riots is pretty well tested throughout history....

Except there is tons of research showing the above is successful. Hell even some police chiefs have begun to adopt the mentality of an arrest is a failure.

The US is a very unique first world country. It's basically a successful, modern country with a violence problem, dating back to its very beginnings.

It's impossible to compare US policing strategies to other developed countries and "what worked" there. Similarly, I wouldn't expect south-central Los Angeles to be able to learn from Beverly Hills how they keep their city safe. Policing strategies are not one-size-fits all, but rather should be adapted as to what works best for the community.

The funny thing is that what you're proposing isn't really opposed by anyone. "Targeting reasons for crime" is fine. I have no problem with studying that and attempting to work with high crime communities in order to bring it down. However, much of the problem (fatherless homes and a glorification of violence in black communities) isn't easily solvable. They've been trying for many decades, and failed.

If you want to look at what works and doesn't work, study the US for the past 60 years.

From 1960-1992, crime was consistently rising, year after year. The current narrative of, "Let's stop arresting people, let's get to the root of the problem" was tried and tried again. It failed. Crime kept going up, and it hit its peak in 1990 when the street gang problem grew to its worst levels ever.

Then, in the early 90s, people were sick of it. They didn't want to gladhandle the criminal element anymore. Everyone had enough. The first orders of business were to target the gangs, and to even pass ordinances in problem areas making it illegal for them to congregate outside. Some ACLU types raised issue, but things were starting to work. Gang violence started to drop, and the crime rate fell a little bit each of the following years.

Then, in 1994, with the crime rate still very high (albeit a little lower than 1990 and slowly headed in the right direction), more measures were taken. Various controversial anti-crime laws were passed in some areas, and new methods of policing started -- Three Strikes, Broken Windows Policing, increased police presence in problem neighborhoods, mandatory minimum sentencing for certain violent crimes. Some of these had flaws and in some ways were overzealous, but they were effective. Places like Times Square in NYC became safe for the first time in many decades. Many downtown areas became revitalized and started to come back economically. For 21 years -- from 1993 to 2013 -- violent crime went down overall EACH YEAR in the US, and almost every major city also echoed this trend. (There was a small outlier in 2005 and 2006 where crime went up a little, before headed down again every year after that.)

Then we had Ferguson in 2014. This changed everything. Black people were convinced that the police were evil, racist, and had it out for them, so community trust in police in such neighborhoods hit an all-time low. President Obama himself repeatedly stated that black people were under attack by the police. Police were also afraid to do their jobs, with new hyper-scrutiny upon everything they did, and with new laws being passed regarding who they could arrest, and why. Respect for the police also fell. Criminals strutted around town with newfound confidence that the police couldn't fuck with them. For 23 years, you learned that you don't fuck around when the cops are there, or otherwise it ends badly for you. That was out the window. The police themselves were handcuffed.

Guess what happened? Crime went up. It's known as "The Ferguson Effect". And it went up disproportionately. While crime prior to 1993 was fairly uniformly rising everywhere, crime starting from mid-2014 spiked big time in the inner-city black neighborhoods -- especially places like Detroit, Baltimore, and Chicago. Crime in white neighborhoods stayed about the same or slightly rose, but there was terrible carnage in the inner city, and it was rapidly worsening. Even Las Vegas saw a big spike in murders and violent crime.

This actually became an issue in the 2016 election. Democrats were pretty good at lying about it, though, via statistical manipulation. When asked about the spike in crime which occurred over the pas 2 years, they said, "Violent crime is less today than it was 10 years ago, so Republicans are lying", and cited statistics to "prove" it. Yeah, that's because they cited stats also covering the 2006-2013 period, when crime went way down. If 2014-2016 was examined by itself, indeed crime had spiked way up, especially in the inner city.

The conclusion from this should be clear.

Aggressive law enforcement works. Trying to solve crime by "working with communities" simply doesn't work, despite its noble intentions.

There's also the myth that poverty causes crime. It does not. While poverty creates circumstances where crime can more easily flourish, there are many poor towns in the US with almost zero violent crime. Violent crime, for the most part, is cultural. If the local culture is dominated by an element which glorifies crime and where it remains unchecked, the on-the-fence types (people who could be either law-abiding or criminals, depending upon their societal influences) will fall to the wrong side. If the local culture is dominated by an intolerance for violent crime, many marginal would-be offenders will automatically fall in line. One important thing to note is that violent crime fell every year in the US from 1993-2013, despite a major recession which took place during that time period! If crime was just about poverty, then why didn't it rise from 2008-2010?

Of course, aggressive law enforcement has its unfortunate side effects. Some police are abusive. Some feel they can get away with anything. Giving them more power just amplifies that. More police activity also means more cases of abuse. In the age of camera phones, now we're seeing the undeniable evidence of that.

So what's the solution?

The left thinks that it's time to return to the pre-1990s model of weakening the police, and simply working with the high-crime communities to change circumstances to where people won't want to commit violent crime. That was already tried in the US. It failed. It will fail again.

What we need is the existing aggressive policing solution COMBINED with reform to police departments to where the bad apples are easier to fire, and to where there is little tolerance for bad behavior by cops. Weaken police unions, get rid of the bad officers, put all officers in a national discipline registry which is accessible to all departments and must be consulted prior to hiring, and we've eliminated a lot of the problem.

[Walter Sobchak]

Except there is tons of research showing the above is successful. Hell even some police chiefs have begun to adopt the mentality of an arrest is a failure.

All I have to say is you have crazy friends if they honestly want to abandoned police altogether. Get better educated friends is all I can say.

DANG OSA YOU GOT REKT

No, he gets rekt by those IG "friends."

[Walter Sobchak]

NASCAR has banned the Confederate flag. Yeah, that NASCAR.

[MumblesBadly]

Gotta love Druff’s penetrating historical analysis of the causes and solutions to crime in America. Too bad it’s wholly biased by his draconian “law and order” mentality regarding crime and society. Fortunately, there are actual scholars who study these matters and publish research and heavily documented books on these issues. And here are two who specialize in the militarization of the US’ police forces.



P.S.Can’t wait for Druff to call them out for being unrealistic and politically biased “leftists”.

[Walter Sobchak]

BTW, despite the efforts of Trump and Fox News and Russian propaganda network OAN, over 80% of WHITE people support the protests. They know the violence is a small minority of the protesters.

The more out of touch with reality Trump gets on this issue, the more it helps Biden. That's why Biden's poll numbers are increasing even in the most recent polls taken after the protests started. Texas, Georgia, Iowa, even Missouri and Utah are in play.