Originally Posted by
khalwat
Great show Druff! A few comments re: the discussion of 2+2 moving over to Vanilla Forums:
- The "upgrade trap" is why I recommend not customizing software by hacking at it, but rather by using approved extension mechanisms like plugins, etc. Being trapped on an obsolete platform generally means that company run website using insecure, inefficient stacks exactly because the cost of upgrading is so painful
- Vanilla Forums is a modern, flexible forum system. Other modern platforms are Discourse, Flarum, vBulletin 5, Invision, etc.
- Vanilla Forums can look however you want them to, the theming is incredibly flexible. You could make it look exactly like vBulletin if you wanted. Here's an example of a poker-related Vanilla Forums site:
http://www.crushlivepoker.com/forums...egy-discussion
- Vanilla Forums is not just a cloud hosted platform. You can self-host it, and do whatever you want with it, just like you can with vBulletin or Invision. vBulletin also offers similar cloud hosting options
https://docs.vanillaforums.com/devel.../self-hosting/
- The OSS version of Vanilla Forums is 100% free.
https://vanillaforums.com/en/software/ &
https://open.vanillaforums.com/
- Tradereski is correct that you can't just downgrade the version of PHP that you run on a new host, because the underlying OS distribution doesn't support it
- PHP 5.6 end of life happened back in December, 2018; PHP 7.3 is the supported platform, and it's significantly improved (and much faster)
- End of Life = "A release that is no longer supported. Users of this release should upgrade as soon as possible, as they may be exposed to unpatched security vulnerabilities."
https://www.php.net/supported-versions.php
- Rackspace (the hosting used by 2+2) is infamous for overcharging corporate clients "because no one ever got fired for choosing rackspace". There are so many better alternatives out there
I discussed all this via text with khalwat today (and moved the above 3 posts from the radio thread, so all of this discussion is in one place).
I learned today from khalwat that Vanilla is actually a FREE solution if you self-host! Why didn't I know this? Because they aren't at all clear about this on their homepage, since they clearly want you on their expensive cloud solution. To vBulletin's credit, they make it very clear that you have two options -- cloud or local (though their local solution is a one-time expense, whereas Vanilla's is free).
Strangely, Mason did NOT dispute that they're going to an expensive cloud solution, so perhaps they don't realize it either!
I went down the "need to downgrade PHP" route in early 2019, and found that it was either impossible or very difficult, and ultimately elected to just go with a later PHP 5 and take the lesser of the two headaches. It's still not clear to me if downgrading PHP to one not supported by the OS is impossible or just very difficult and not recommended.
khalwat is also correct that, by doing custom modifications to software like I have here (and what 2+2 did), you do end up in an "upgrade trap", where it is very difficult to upgrade versions, and sometimes you're stuck with obsolete/vulnerable software. However, I've always felt it's tradeoff and you need to assess your needs and see what solution is right for you. It's important for me to be able to modify vBulletin as I see fit, so I decided to marry myself to vBulletin 4 for many years, until that no longer becomes practical. For now, it's still practical.
Yes, PHP 5.6 (which I use) is 2x as slow as PHP 7.3, but as you see, this site runs fast enough, and my hosting fees aren't terribly expensive, so I don't mind that.
khalwat showed me a Vanilla site he manages, and it looks pretty good. So a Vanilla forum doesn't need to look like garbage -- it's all how you customize it. He also said 2+2 could modify the template enough to where it would look just like old 2+2. But... why? Instead of changing to Vanilla and making it look like vBulletin, why not just go with vBulletin?
I still feel they would be better off going with vBulletin 5 or Invision, since that's the type of interface their users have been long used to, and you don't want to hit them with changes, or some might leave.
Hope to hear khalwat back on radio soon!