Another dude competing against the girls.

[Texter]

Bump.

Congrats to him on becoming the Big Sky Conference women’s champ in the mile. Must be so satisfying giving those ladies a beat down.

Wait guys, there's scientific studies out there which prove that dudes who transition and get on hormones have no physical advantage.

It's just a sheer coincidence that most of them end up winning every competition they're in, and break longstanding records.

Come on, they only won by about 80 yards in a 1 mile race.

[ErickAA]

So if I am understanding the speaker it seems she won the mile race at 4:50 (it is unclear whether it is actually 1500 or 1600 meters). I read an article from earlier in the thread and it seems her PR when she was "male" was equivalent to a 4:08 1600 meter mile. So there is a couple takeaways from this. First, this person's performance suffered tremendously just by having testosterone reduced, and two males may possibly have a major advantage even if testosterone is transiently diminished.

Also, the fact that this person is taking drugs to reduce their testosterone seems to me they haven't transitioned at all physically, and still have otherwise functioning male gonads.

[Walter Sobchak]

So if I am understanding the speaker it seems she won the mile race at 4:50 (it is unclear whether it is actually 1500 or 1600 meters). I read an article from earlier in the thread and it seems her PR when she was "male" was equivalent to a 4:08 1600 meter mile. So there is a couple takeaways from this. First, this person's performance suffered tremendously just by having testosterone reduced, and two males may possibly have a major advantage even if testosterone is transiently diminished.

Also, the fact that this person is taking drugs to reduce their testosterone seems to me they haven't transitioned at all physically, and still have otherwise functioning male gonads.

Wasn't it a Jerky Boys bit where the Jewish caricature Sol Rosenberg called in for a sex change and asked for his dong to be sewed onto his leg in case he wanted it back? Didn't find it on youtube.

[Dan Druff]

So if I am understanding the speaker it seems she won the mile race at 4:50 (it is unclear whether it is actually 1500 or 1600 meters). I read an article from earlier in the thread and it seems her PR when she was "male" was equivalent to a 4:08 1600 meter mile. So there is a couple takeaways from this. First, this person's performance suffered tremendously just by having testosterone reduced, and two males may possibly have a major advantage even if testosterone is transiently diminished.

Also, the fact that this person is taking drugs to reduce their testosterone seems to me they haven't transitioned at all physically, and still have otherwise functioning male gonads.

You're correct, and this is why the "the reduced testosterone makes them equivalent to women" argument is a fallacy.

The reduced testosterone does hurt their performance, but not enough to negate the huge natural advantage top male athletes have over top female athletes.

[BCR]

So if I am understanding the speaker it seems she won the mile race at 4:50 (it is unclear whether it is actually 1500 or 1600 meters). I read an article from earlier in the thread and it seems her PR when she was "male" was equivalent to a 4:08 1600 meter mile. So there is a couple takeaways from this. First, this person's performance suffered tremendously just by having testosterone reduced, and two males may possibly have a major advantage even if testosterone is transiently diminished.

Also, the fact that this person is taking drugs to reduce their testosterone seems to me they haven't transitioned at all physically, and still have otherwise functioning male gonads.

You're correct, and this is why the "the reduced testosterone makes them equivalent to women" argument is a fallacy.

The reduced testosterone does hurt their performance, but not enough to negate the huge natural advantage top male athletes have over top female athletes.

Yeah, it’s not like they shrink. They lose muscle I’m sure, but a male frame is still going to be more conducive to outperforming a female. I don’t know anyone who actually thinks different although I know they exist. Twitter heads. I’m not sure they even argue this, just fairness. You give up competing in sports against girls if you transition is the only logical decision. It’s much more of an advantage than any PED could ever be.

I have never seen a story about a MTF transition of someone who was elite as a guy. Not saying it hasn’t happened, but I’ll be curious if it ever does. Like had Bruce Jenner done it as his peak and then competed in women’s decathlon. It would be so incredulous it would almost be worth the troll to watch someone play the heel that hard. That’s legendary troll. Be like playing little league right now and claiming to be 11 and taking a slow homerun trot and flinging your bat after every shot into the parking lot. Rushing the mound after they come inside and wailing on a kid who weighs 70lbs. That’s what I imagine it would look like had Shaq transitioned in high school and played in the WNBA.

I’m starting to warm to the idea the more I write as I’ve seen a lot of drunk girls convinced they can kick some guys ass if they want to.

[nightmarefish]

You're correct, and this is why the "the reduced testosterone makes them equivalent to women" argument is a fallacy.

The reduced testosterone does hurt their performance, but not enough to negate the huge natural advantage top male athletes have over top female athletes.

Yeah, it’s not like they shrink. They lose muscle I’m sure, but a male frame is still going to be more conducive to outperforming a female. I don’t know anyone who actually thinks different although I know they exist. Twitter heads. I’m not sure they even argue this, just fairness. You give up competing in sports against girls if you transition is the only logical decision. It’s much more of an advantage than any PED could ever be.

I have never seen a story about a MTF transition of someone who was elite as a guy. Not saying it hasn’t happened, but I’ll be curious if it ever does. Like had Bruce Jenner done it as his peak and then competed in women’s decathlon. It would be so incredulous it would almost be worth the troll to watch someone play the heel that hard. That’s legendary troll. Be like playing little league right now and claiming to be 11 and taking a slow homerun trot and flinging your bat after every shot into the parking lot. Rushing the mound after they come inside and wailing on a kid who weighs 70lbs. That’s what I imagine it would look like had Shaq transitioned in high school and played in the WNBA.

I’m starting to warm to the idea the more I write as I’ve seen a lot of drunk girls convinced they can kick some guys ass if they want to.

As I said in the original post, I know his mother, have for probably 35 years. She was completely against him competing. She was on my high school track and x-country teams so she knows full well that it isn't fair. Also, weren't talking a pretty damn good runner here, multiple state champion in high school running against other dudes. I talked to her awhile back about the situation. She's completely devastated and this has deeply effected their entire family. He's getting tons of backlash, being from Montana doesn't help.

[dwai]

the refs had enough

[nightmarefish]

So if I am understanding the speaker it seems she won the mile race at 4:50 (it is unclear whether it is actually 1500 or 1600 meters). I read an article from earlier in the thread and it seems her PR when she was "male" was equivalent to a 4:08 1600 meter mile. So there is a couple takeaways from this. First, this person's performance suffered tremendously just by having testosterone reduced, and two males may possibly have a major advantage even if testosterone is transiently diminished.

Also, the fact that this person is taking drugs to reduce their testosterone seems to me they haven't transitioned at all physically, and still have otherwise functioning male gonads.

1600

He's definitely slower now. Much of the advantage that they don't take into account is that he's been a runner and training his entire life with extra testosterone due to the fact he's a dude. If you take the testosterone away now cool he's gonna be slower but he still benefited from it building his body for 20 years.

[BCR]

Yeah, it’s not like they shrink. They lose muscle I’m sure, but a male frame is still going to be more conducive to outperforming a female. I don’t know anyone who actually thinks different although I know they exist. Twitter heads. I’m not sure they even argue this, just fairness. You give up competing in sports against girls if you transition is the only logical decision. It’s much more of an advantage than any PED could ever be.

I have never seen a story about a MTF transition of someone who was elite as a guy. Not saying it hasn’t happened, but I’ll be curious if it ever does. Like had Bruce Jenner done it as his peak and then competed in women’s decathlon. It would be so incredulous it would almost be worth the troll to watch someone play the heel that hard. That’s legendary troll. Be like playing little league right now and claiming to be 11 and taking a slow homerun trot and flinging your bat after every shot into the parking lot. Rushing the mound after they come inside and wailing on a kid who weighs 70lbs. That’s what I imagine it would look like had Shaq transitioned in high school and played in the WNBA.

I’m starting to warm to the idea the more I write as I’ve seen a lot of drunk girls convinced they can kick some guys ass if they want to.

As I said in the original post, I know his mother, have for probably 35 years. She was completely against him competing. She was on my high school track and x-country teams so she knows full well that it isn't fair. Also, weren't talking a pretty damn good runner here, multiple state champion in high school running against other dudes. I talked to her awhile back about the situation. She's completely devastated and this has deeply effected their entire family. He's getting tons of backlash, being from Montana doesn't help.

Yeah. I didn’t even go back and read. We’ve had so many of these I forgot how this thread started and just read a few responses. That’s a pretty good example of fairly elite transition. After going back I remembered reading it and thinking we will see by end of season. Clearly we got our answer. June was sandbagging that first race unless there was some medication side effect. Wouldn’t doubt June was sandbagging there even in finals. If they allow it, a state champ and college champ is probably an Olympic contender once they adjust and go full out.

I can’t imagine doing that if you had already established yourself as much as June had as a male. Would feel so cheap. You’ve put in all the work and been a champ yourself. To take that away from a girl who has trained her whole life turns women’s rights against LGBT rights.

Weightlifting and combat sports and wrestling as dwai posted above. That’s even weight classed, so there is clearly a huge advantage beyond hormones. If I was transitioning I’d be pissed at those competing in sports. They are the driving force behind so much of the irritation at the whole thing. It’s just weird or mental illness to most without sports. Sports is pissing people off and turning off even long time allies.

[Walter Sobchak]

the refs had enough

If he's a girl now can't she at least shave her armpits? FFS

[BCR]

I’m curious how dad feels if you know? I know mom is your friend and she’s supportive and hates the sports aspect. Has she mentioned what dad thinks?

No parent should live through their kids achievements in sports, but that strikes me as more easily said than done. It’s your flesh and blood. You sat through all the practices.

You follow them forever up through sports and your boy is a champ and you’re so proud and then, I’d imagine, possibly cringing. You love your kid, and yet that has to evoke the weirdest feelings.

I grew up with a kid who went to school with me and then went to a catholic high school. He was in the Army, possibly even a ranger iirc. Teacher and accountant and small business owner now. With it kid and hustler and really is successful. Definitely a tough dude growing up. His daughter transitioned and he does my dads taxes. He must have assumed I knew and told my dad since we’re the same age and know many of the same people. I had no idea and hadn’t heard a word about it.

My dad is a churchgoer and this kid is a serous Catholic. He’s super fond of my dad and almost felt like he had to explain something to him that my dad no clue about anyway. Like he was searching for what he’d done wrong, but he hadn’t done anything wrong, dude is super solid family guy Married to same chick for 25 years with other kids that are flourishing. Just is what it is.

My dad said he finished and brought up his daughter going FTM out of the blue and my dad said he seemed gutted, but said the right things. I assume when your kid does that in a smaller town, you just assume everyone is talking.

My dad was taken aback when he told him just because it’s so personal. My dad said the right things I’m sure and he said it felt like he had told him about losing a kid. A death of sorts, but supportive. It has to feel like a death in ways.

[tgull]

I’m curious how dad feels if you know? I know mom is your friend and she’s supportive and hates the sports aspect. Has she mentioned what dad thinks?

No parent should live through their kids achievements in sports, but that strikes me as more easily said than done. It’s your flesh and blood. You sat through all the practices.

You follow them forever up through sports and your boy is a champ and you’re so proud and then, I’d imagine, possibly cringing. You love your kid, and yet that has to evoke the weirdest feelings.

I grew up with a kid who went to school with me and then went to a catholic high school. He was in the Army, possibly even a ranger iirc. Teacher and accountant and small business owner now. With it kid and hustler and really is successful. Definitely a tough dude growing up. His daughter transitioned and he does my dads taxes. He must have assumed I knew and told my dad since we’re the same age and know many of the same people. I had no idea and hadn’t heard a word about it.

My dad is a churchgoer and this kid is a serous Catholic. He’s super fond of my dad and almost felt like he had to explain something to him that my dad no clue about anyway. Like he was searching for what he’d done wrong, but he hadn’t done anything wrong, dude is super solid family guy Married to same chick for 25 years with other kids that are flourishing. Just is what it is.

My dad said he finished and brought up his daughter going FTM out of the blue and my dad said he seemed gutted, but said the right things. I assume when your kid does that in a smaller town, you just assume everyone is talking.

My dad was taken aback when he told him just because it’s so personal. My dad said the right things I’m sure and he said it felt like he had told him about losing a kid. A death of sorts, but supportive. It has to feel like a death in ways.

Any guy with kids that voluntary transitions to a genetic creature really needs to off himself. To put your kids through that for your own sexual stimulation is just awful. You are essentially creating generational theft of their upbringing plain and simple, they will never live it down. It's one thing to come out gay, that happens, it's another thing to chop off your own dick and flaunt it to your family. Even Bruce Jenner has privately now said he should not have done what he did. If you are that tormented just rent a boat and drive a mile out in the ocean and take a swim as fast as you can, turn around and it's over and just start floating, backstroking and daydreaming.

[nightmarefish]

I’m curious how dad feels if you know? I know mom is your friend and she’s supportive and hates the sports aspect. Has she mentioned what dad thinks?

No parent should live through their kids achievements in sports, but that strikes me as more easily said than done. It’s your flesh and blood. You sat through all the practices.

You follow them forever up through sports and your boy is a champ and you’re so proud and then, I’d imagine, possibly cringing. You love your kid, and yet that has to evoke the weirdest feelings.

I grew up with a kid who went to school with me and then went to a catholic high school. He was in the Army, possibly even a ranger iirc. Teacher and accountant and small business owner now. With it kid and hustler and really is successful. Definitely a tough dude growing up. His daughter transitioned and he does my dads taxes. He must have assumed I knew and told my dad since we’re the same age and know many of the same people. I had no idea and hadn’t heard a word about it.

My dad is a churchgoer and this kid is a serous Catholic. He’s super fond of my dad and almost felt like he had to explain something to him that my dad no clue about anyway. Like he was searching for what he’d done wrong, but he hadn’t done anything wrong, dude is super solid family guy Married to same chick for 25 years with other kids that are flourishing. Just is what it is.

My dad said he finished and brought up his daughter going FTM out of the blue and my dad said he seemed gutted, but said the right things. I assume when your kid does that in a smaller town, you just assume everyone is talking.

My dad was taken aback when he told him just because it’s so personal. My dad said the right things I’m sure and he said it felt like he had told him about losing a kid. A death of sorts, but supportive. It has to feel like a death in ways.

I don’t really know the guy much but I get the feeling he disowned the kid and wants nothing to do with the entire situation. News station ran this story awhile back. The mom is interviewed but the dad is noticeably absent.



High school Graduation pic when the dude was still a dude.

[splitthis]

I’m curious how dad feels if you know? I know mom is your friend and she’s supportive and hates the sports aspect. Has she mentioned what dad thinks?

No parent should live through their kids achievements in sports, but that strikes me as more easily said than done. It’s your flesh and blood. You sat through all the practices.

You follow them forever up through sports and your boy is a champ and you’re so proud and then, I’d imagine, possibly cringing. You love your kid, and yet that has to evoke the weirdest feelings.

I grew up with a kid who went to school with me and then went to a catholic high school. He was in the Army, possibly even a ranger iirc. Teacher and accountant and small business owner now. With it kid and hustler and really is successful. Definitely a tough dude growing up. His daughter transitioned and he does my dads taxes. He must have assumed I knew and told my dad since we’re the same age and know many of the same people. I had no idea and hadn’t heard a word about it.

My dad is a churchgoer and this kid is a serous Catholic. He’s super fond of my dad and almost felt like he had to explain something to him that my dad no clue about anyway. Like he was searching for what he’d done wrong, but he hadn’t done anything wrong, dude is super solid family guy Married to same chick for 25 years with other kids that are flourishing. Just is what it is.

My dad said he finished and brought up his daughter going FTM out of the blue and my dad said he seemed gutted, but said the right things. I assume when your kid does that in a smaller town, you just assume everyone is talking.

My dad was taken aback when he told him just because it’s so personal. My dad said the right things I’m sure and he said it felt like he had told him about losing a kid. A death of sorts, but supportive. It has to feel like a death in ways.

Any guy with kids that voluntary transitions to a genetic creature really needs to off himself. To put your kids through that for your own sexual stimulation is just awful. You are essentially creating generational theft of their upbringing plain and simple, they will never live it down. It's one thing to come out gay, that happens, it's another thing to chop off your own dick and flaunt it to your family. Even Bruce Jenner has privately now said he should not have done what he did. If you are that tormented just rent a boat and drive a mile out in the ocean and take a swim as fast as you can, turn around and it's over and just start floating, backstroking and daydreaming.

Jenner only wishes he didn’t do it because it backfired on him. Sorry, that thing is a monster.

[mulva]

I’m curious how dad feels if you know? I know mom is your friend and she’s supportive and hates the sports aspect. Has she mentioned what dad thinks?

No parent should live through their kids achievements in sports, but that strikes me as more easily said than done. It’s your flesh and blood. You sat through all the practices.

You follow them forever up through sports and your boy is a champ and you’re so proud and then, I’d imagine, possibly cringing. You love your kid, and yet that has to evoke the weirdest feelings.

I grew up with a kid who went to school with me and then went to a catholic high school. He was in the Army, possibly even a ranger iirc. Teacher and accountant and small business owner now. With it kid and hustler and really is successful. Definitely a tough dude growing up. His daughter transitioned and he does my dads taxes. He must have assumed I knew and told my dad since we’re the same age and know many of the same people. I had no idea and hadn’t heard a word about it.

My dad is a churchgoer and this kid is a serous Catholic. He’s super fond of my dad and almost felt like he had to explain something to him that my dad no clue about anyway. Like he was searching for what he’d done wrong, but he hadn’t done anything wrong, dude is super solid family guy Married to same chick for 25 years with other kids that are flourishing. Just is what it is.

My dad said he finished and brought up his daughter going FTM out of the blue and my dad said he seemed gutted, but said the right things. I assume when your kid does that in a smaller town, you just assume everyone is talking.

My dad was taken aback when he told him just because it’s so personal. My dad said the right things I’m sure and he said it felt like he had told him about losing a kid. A death of sorts, but supportive. It has to feel like a death in ways.

I don’t really know the guy much but I get the feeling he disowned the kid and wants nothing to do with the entire situation. News station ran this story awhile back. The mom is interviewed but the dad is noticeably absent.



High school Graduation pic when the dude was still a dude.

holy chit...vegas is the dad!!!

[Dan Druff]

Notice the left doesn't ever speak out against this. Any opinion pieces or YouTube videos bashing shit like this always come from the right.

I thought the left was all about women's rights and preventing men from being unfair to women?

This is a huge affront to women's rights, and pretty much ruins decades of activism for giving women equal access to sports. Crickets from the left on this -- aside from the SJW crowd who actually supports it!

[Walter Sobchak]

Notice the left doesn't ever speak out against this. Any opinion pieces or YouTube videos bashing shit like this always come from the right.

I thought the left was all about women's rights and preventing men from being unfair to women?

This is a huge affront to women's rights, and pretty much ruins decades of activism for giving women equal access to sports. Crickets from the left on this -- aside from the SJW crowd who actually supports it!

I've consistently said I do not agree with this. If you have a Y chromosome you should not be allowed in women's sports.

Most of the "left" that I know agree with me. A few don't.

[dwai]

Notice the left doesn't ever speak out against this. Any opinion pieces or YouTube videos bashing shit like this always come from the right.

I thought the left was all about women's rights and preventing men from being unfair to women?

This is a huge affront to women's rights, and pretty much ruins decades of activism for giving women equal access to sports. Crickets from the left on this -- aside from the SJW crowd who actually supports it!

I've consistently said I do not agree with this. If you have a Y chromosome you should not be allowed in women's sports.

Most of the "left" that I know agree with me. A few don't.

Transphobic hate speech

[Walter Sobchak]

I've consistently said I do not agree with this. If you have a Y chromosome you should not be allowed in women's sports.

Most of the "left" that I know agree with me. A few don't.

Transphobic hate speech

Trans-Siberian Orchestra.

[nightmarefish]

Tulsi Gabbard, the voice of reason? I hope she succeeds in putting an end to this nonsense.

Democratic Hawaii Rep. and former 2020 Presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard introduced a bill into the U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday that would dictate Title IX protections for female athletes be based on biological sex—a term often used to refer to gender assigned to a person at birth—thats advocate have decried as inherently transphobic.

Title IX prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in any educational program or activity that receives federal funding, and is well known for its requirement that women’s sports programming receive equal support to men’s programming.

Gabbard, who declined to run for re-election in 2020 and is in the final days of her Congressional term, introduced the bill, titled the “Protect Women’s Sports Act,” with Republican Oklahoma Rep. Markwayne Mullin. Republican Georgia Sen. Kelly Loeffler introduced a similar bill, titled “the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act,” into the Senate in September. (Loeffler’s bill has not been taken up for a vote.)


“Title IX is being weakened by some states who are misinterpreting [it], creating uncertainty, undue hardship and lost opportunities for female athletes,” Rep. Gabbard said in a statement. “Our legislation protects Title IX’s original intent which was based on the general biological distinction between men and women athletes based on sex.”

“Title IX was designed to give women and girls an equal chance to succeed, including in sports,” said Rep. Mullin in a statement of his own. “Allowing biological males to compete in women’s sports diminishes that equality and takes away from the original intent of Title IX.”

If implemented into law, the bill would deny federal funding to schools that “permit a person whose biological sex at birth is male to participate in an athletic program or activity that is designated for women or girls.” It was immediately decried by LGBTQ+ advocates.

“It’s shameful that one of Rep. Gabbard’s last acts in Congress is to attack trans youth,” said Chase Strangio, deputy director for Trans Justice with the ACLU LGBT & HIV Project in a statement provided to TIME. “While this bill will not advance, it has already sent a dangerous message to trans youth and is spreading the same lies that are fueling attacks on trans youth in state legislatures.”

“Rep. Gabbard’s harmful and unnecessary bill is not about protecting girls and women’s sports. There’s no evidence in the 18 states with policies that allow transgender athletes to participate on teams consistent with their gender identity that inclusion negatively impacts athletic programs,” added GLAAD’s Alex Schmider, Associate Director Transgender Representation. “This is more about opportunistic people like Rep. Gabbard who, under false pretense, claim to be protecting girl’s sports to justify discrimination.”

Mara Keisling, executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality, concurred, describing Gabbard’s “play for attention” as “embarrassing” in a statement. “She should be ashamed of trying to burnish her right-wing credentials with attacks on transgender student athletes,” Keisling’s statement continued. “It’s just a hurtful attempt to get on TV without any regard to the damage such rhetoric does to transgender kids.”

Gabbard did not immediately respond to TIME’s request for comment on the backlash.


Gabbard’s record on LGBTQ+ rights received increased scrutiny during her 2020 presidential campaign. In the early 2000s, she worked for her father, Hawaii state Senator Mike Gabbard, and his anti-gay organization The Alliance for Traditional Marriage, that campaigned against the legalization of same-sex marriage in Hawaii. She has since publicly reversed her position and signed an amicus brief challenging the Defense of Marriage Act in 2013.

“In my past I said and believed things that were wrong, and worse, they were very hurtful to people in the LGBTQ community and to their loved ones,” Gabbard said in a video apology posted shortly after she announced her presidential candidacy. “My views have changed significantly since then and my record in Congress over the last six years reflects what is in my heart: a strong and ongoing commitment to fighting for LGBTQ rights.”

Yet advocates argue the introduction of “Protect Women’s Sports Act” goes directly against those commitments.

A number of state legislatures have tried to pass legislation over the past year aimed at prohibiting trans women and girls from participating in female sports teams. Idaho Gov. Brad Little signed the “Fairness in Women’s Sports Act” into law in March, which said no female sports teams could be open to “students of the male sex” and a “dispute” could be resolved by presenting a signed physician’s statement on the student’s sex based on their “internal and external reproductive anatomy.” A federal judge struck down the law in March, writing that the state had not provided a “legitimate interest” the Act served “other than an invalid interest of excluding transgender women and girls from women’s sports entirely, regardless of their physiological characteristics.”

“This is a victory for all women and girls in Idaho,” the ACLU tweeted at the time. “Trans people belong in sports.”

https://time.com/5920758/tulsi-gabba...-women-sports/