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Thread: *** OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Race Thread ***

  1. #3061
    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by diggydow View Post
    Just checking in, and predicting that:

    Sonatine has been promoting establishment candidates who serve corporations (Bloomberg, Buttigieg, Biden, Klobuchar), while denigrating anti-establishment candidates who don't take bribes (Bernie and Tulsi).

    Am I wrong?
    Predicting is for things in the future.

    Bummer Putin kicked Tulsi to the curb.
    You type and interact people like you're a bit older, which makes this all the more confusing.

    Didn't you live through McCarthyism, or learn about it? Don't you find anything detestable or morally wrong about this? Don't you have any questions when every one of Hillary Clinton's opponents (Tulsi, Bernie, Jill Stein, Trump) are called Russian spies?

    It's so obvious it's propaganda fed into corporate media to trick the lowest common denominator into voting against their own interests.

    But you swallow the propaganda as it's fed to you and then just go around embarrassing yourself by parroting it.

  2. #3062
    Quote Originally Posted by diggydow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post

    Predicting is for things in the future.

    Bummer Putin kicked Tulsi to the curb.
    You type and interact people like you're a bit older, which makes this all the more confusing.

    Didn't you live through McCarthyism, or learn about it? Don't you find anything detestable or morally wrong about this? Don't you have any questions when every one of Hillary Clinton's opponents (Tulsi, Bernie, Jill Stein, Trump) are called Russian spies?

    It's so obvious it's propaganda fed into corporate media to trick the lowest common denominator into voting against their own interests.

    But you swallow the propaganda as it's fed to you and then just go around embarrassing yourself by parroting it.
    guy is like 30 and is such a mindless drone he believed jussie smollet

     
    Comments
      
      dwai: ROFL #JusticeForJussie

  3. #3063
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Bad news for Biden in NV.

    Latest poll has him down 18 points there. Ouch. Even I think he's screwed there now.

  4. #3064
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Actually I see a different poll in Nevada, taken at the exact same time, where it's basically a 5-way tie and Steyer is technically ahead.

    Not that I believe this. But it kinda shows that the polling in Nevada might be complete garbage, and hard to trust.

  5. #3065
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    not offered as any sort of rebuttal as much as pure thesis; bloomberg has momentum. if the election was held in 20 minutes, youre dead on the money.

    but trump's cult loves a winner. bloomberg is going to eviscerate that mystique about trump during each and every debate, providing trump even shows up for them.

    trump cant go after him because of racism; trump was sued (successfully) for having a hard policy of never selling units on his properties to black people.

    trump cant go after him for stop and frisk because trump tweeted how much he loved it.

    trump cant go after him for anything really.

    and bloomberg has an incredibly target rich environment; every single thing donald trump sold himself as will wilt when bloomberg presents endless testimonials about how the dudes a grifter who squandered 10x more money than he ever made. and then hes going to show The Wall blowing over in a stiff breeze, trump being mocked at home and abroad, etc etc.

    i dont know, i think hes more vulnerable than youre making him out to be.

    I wanted to get back to your post and sans post.

    Clearly Bloomberg has all the resources in the world. I’m sure he has nerds who can micro target every voter, but with what message? Does he know what he’s up against?

    Like if he has a team of psychiatrists to go to work on Trump as you said in the other thread, I think Trump is a rather open book and it’s kind of a waste of time

    There never was a rational reason for a bunch of low income white people in the rust belt to vote for Trump. Yet they did. So making a rational argument why they shouldn’t now isn’t likely to work imo. I mean, half these people are on food assistance and Medicaid and pulling the lever for the GOP. What’s rational about that?

    Some just got sick of SJW shit, but not most, and you’re still part of the Dem party, so that will still be there.

    This shit isn’t rational with Trump, it’s a love affair. I sat there last election cycle seeing it every day yet missing it. I kept thinking, well Nate Silver knows this shit way better than me, so clearly there is a whole lot of suburban women who are voting Hillary.

    Every post of mine in that thread was confident that Hilary would win while saying you sure wouldn’t know it judging from what I’m seeing around me. I kept wondering, is there really this many suburban women because these counties haven’t went red in 80 years, yet they sure as fuck feel like they’re going red?

    It’s when I started to view this shit like a relationship because there often isn’t anything rational about relationships. Someone pushed your buttons the right way.

    The Dems had sat around promising these people they’d help them out, get shit done around the house, and little did you know your girl is on Facebook all day and next thing you know she’s fucking sidedish and you’re sitting there holding your dick wondering how the fuck did this happen?

    Then you start thinking back to how you really weren’t paying attention to her, and you were worried about everyone else but her. and meanwhile sidedish is looking at her Facebook and profiling her ass and pushing every button because he was putting in the work. Now you’re fucked. You were worried about every special interest and ignoring her.

    What they did was ingenious. I mean, sidedish was right as fuck last election. He deserves to be fucking your girl because he played you while you were asleep at the wheel

    Trump voters are strange but not monolithic.

    Like I dated this girl out in the country in Pa. She would go through her Facebook and I can’t explain to you how irritating these country people are. They truly love to stay scared. It’s a fetish.

    Like they’re convinced child trafficking is the biggest issue in the world. They confuse 18 year old junkies getting played by pimps and ending up turning tricks in Detroit with children getting abducted because they’re fucking hayseeds. They lump human trafficking all together.

    So every day it’s just same different variant of who is trying to take their guns, trump, and be on the lookout for a dude driving a van that looks like this because he was trying to grab kids at Walmart.

    Scare articles where the headlines read, PA Reports 20k suspected child abductions this year!”. All the comments would be, “wow, I knew it was bad, but holy fuck, I don’t realize it had got this bad. Watch your kids!”

    Like if you’re a dude who wants to bang all the country chicks you just make a strongly worded post about keeping an eye out for not just your own children but everyone’s children! That will get you laid in the country. If they taught PUA classes for rednecks and this wasn’t lesson one, they’re missing the mark.

    Dumbest shit you can imagine. Just a total disconnect with reality and they hate facts.

    So I sit there reading this nonsense over coffee and think you live in a region with all these little small towns with 3k people here. If kids were getting snagged, don’t you think it would be front page six o clock breaking news? Don’t you think you’d be forming lynch mobs and everyone would have their rifles and AR-15s and pickup trucks out looking for kids?

    I’d sift through the article and get to the numbers and in the end, it’s like 15k domestic disputes, grandma picked 1500 up from school and didn’t tell mom, a few thousand kids ran away, and like twelve kids in a state of 10 million were actually stranger abducted. I’d look at the historical data and it was worse in 1975. You’d think pointing this out would alleviate their concerns and make them feel better, but if you do, they just get pissed.

    I mean, this girl was crazy about me for a minute and I still felt like I had to deprogram her from this nonsense every day with more failure than success.

    They want to stay scared for whatever reason. They hate how the world has changed around them and they get irritated if you point out their worry about this issue or that issue over there may be valid, but this fake fear shit is wholly irrational and they’re being played.

    I just sat around and got pissed and wanted to fight rednecks every day and thought wtf is wrong with you people?

    These places always go red, but not always with the same vigor. so you don’t need them, but there has to be a whole lot of people in Blake’s neighborhood pulling the lever for mike to combat these people being engaged.

    That person is different than where I live despite being 20 miles away. Here, I see way less of that. It’s more just they like trump’s populism and that he says fuck you to China and Mexico even if he’s not really doing anything. We elected Jim Trafficant a dozen times here after he clearly was corrupt We don’t care about if you’re corrupt. We’re embittered in a much different way. It’s less fear of the outsider.

    It’s more just that he just isn’t afraid to say fuck you to all these people. If someone posted that child abduction crap I could point out why it’s silly and it would be generally well-received. If I argued why his economic this or that is poorly reasoned, I’d be in for an argument. I’d be embracing weakness or sucking Mexican dick. They’ve lost their mind over different shit. I don’t argue shit online either place because I know it’s pointless. It’s just people watching for me.

    But I’d think how different these two groups of pro-Trump people are and what motivates and scares them.

    I feel like Trump and his people had this almost perfect feel for those distinctions last time around.

    How these are all rust belt areas, but this person over here isn’t that person over there and what appeals to each sliver is different.. Bloomberg needs some luck and to do that even better than trump did, which feels almost impossible. If he has a cadre of psychiatrists, this is where they need deployed. In the micro targeting.

    Like the people where I live and a bunch of dudes where Crowe live feel like the same guy if you’re in a bar watching a UFC fight. It’s Italian and Irish dudes and testosterone but there is a difference is being angry at gentrification and having to drive 15 minutes further to work and all the tech assholes driving up prices in your old neighborhood,. They’re pissed, but there are still jobs there. They may have some disappointment in Dem leadership, but they aren’t embittered and hopeless to the same degree. Their working class has stayed blue enough.

    They also have more highly educated people in suburbs that are blue. Like Trump, I’m sure, appeals to blue collar dudes there, but not to the degree he does here. This shit here is dystopian and people just want to burn it all down at this point. A bunch of blue collar massholes are more generally pissed than embittered. People here are embittered.

    All these states red or blue have these slivers of the same type of people with small differences that you need to grasp.

    To beat Trump is to tap into those small distinctions and probably not even then unless external factors come into play, because they’re already in love with him. It’s a lot easier to win someone who is making a choice than it is to win someone all ready in love with someone else.


    Trumps appeal here isn’t tax cuts. It’s a love affair. I can’t think of how else to describe it as it’s not rational. They defend him like it’s personal.

    Presidencies are like marriages.

    Like even the seven year itch is real in both where people start looking around.

    These people aren’t on the honeymoon, but they’re still crazy in love. I’m not sure Mike Bloomberg can tempt them all that much when they’re still in love.

    It’s why I’m not even sure it’s good if we could win. If you win and shit starts to go south they’ll just miss him and we’ll get don jr.next.

    We need him to fuck up and lose these people first. They have to hate his ass. Then you pick up the pieces next cycle.

    Bloomberg just putting Trump on blast and mocking him is a lot like trying to tell your 16 year old daughter that she should date the Asian kid with the 4.0 instead of the drummer with the nose ring and the fuck the world t-shirt because the Asian kid is respectful and polite and it will end better for her. You can insult and mock that kid all day and she’ll just love him more. This isn’t rational shit you’re dealing with.

    After you fuck up and sidedish is banging your girl, you can probably get her back, but you’re going to have to let it run it’s course. So far he’s actually paid some bills and shit hasn’t went all that bad. She’s still pissed at you. Telling her he’s a damn drunk gambling degenerate isn’t likely to work. She’s going to have to see it for herself in the same way the 16 year old is going to have to see it herself. It’s a fucked up spot. I don’t see the argument to be made. It certainly isn’t going to be some fact based rational argument, and it can’t be all insults. You have to connect. It’s uphill and unlikely to succeed. Time to lick your wounds and work on yourself and realize you were slacking and wait for the other guy to fuck up and not be slacking next time.

     
    Comments
      
      thesidedish: wow sidedish getting killed for being a sleazeball
      
      sonatine: typically lucid and insightful post, thank you, good read
      
      gimmick:
      
      MumblesBadly: I’m guessing that country girl you dated was whiter than white bread.
      
      Daly: Fantastic post
      
      Sheesfaced: BCR is god
    Last edited by BCR; 02-17-2020 at 11:21 PM.

  6. #3066





     
    Comments
      
      MumblesBadly: Coge

  7. #3067
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    there is one minor adjustment to your perception of my comment that may have substantial impact on the overall message:

    bloomberg's goal isnt to target any of the members of trumps cult with anything beyond his current standing brand; 'im better at everything trump represents'.

    bloomberg's goal is to make trump spaz out and act crazy, period. nothing eviscerates a cult faster than dear leader losing his macho mystique.

    and the don jr scenario is a lock if bernie wins, thats whats scaring the shit out of the dnc. bernies going to accomplish precisely fuckall with a hostile house and a hostile senate. and thats going to give us president don jr and president ivanka. bloomberg? bloomberg is not just smart, hes already starting to make the bernie bros pop like kernels of corn. and the center-right is going to vote for him on the strength of that alone.

    so i completely agree with your diagnosis of the hayseed pathos. those people arent in play. but bloombergs going to present a center right narrative while cucking the they/them crowd and i think it will be more than enough to tip the scales for the election, and i think his policies are going to be perfect for rebranding the democratics as the grownups in the room.

    also a lot of dems are going to vote for bloomberg simply to further alienate the bernie bros and tulsicult, both of whom are absolutely leaping at the chance to prove exactly everyone correct about them, by refusing outright to participate in our democracy if they dont get what they want.

    also, bloomberg just qualified for the nevada debates. im looking forward to circling back and comparing notes after because i feel like no matter what we see, its going to change the game completely.

     
    Comments
      
      BCR:
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  8. #3068
    Newest NPR/PBS/Marist poll...national poll...02/18/2020

    Sanders 31% (+9)
    Bloomberg 19% (+15)
    Biden 15% (-9)
    Warren 12% (-5)
    Klobuchar 9% (+5)
    Buttigieg 8% (-5)
    Steyer 2% (+1)

    Bernie's should win Nevada easily since he's up about 18 points in Nevada.

    Bloomberg to join the Democratic debate on Wednesday.


  9. #3069
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Actually I see a different poll in Nevada, taken at the exact same time, where it's basically a 5-way tie and Steyer is technically ahead.

    Not that I believe this. But it kinda shows that the polling in Nevada might be complete garbage, and hard to trust.
    That's an internal Steyer poll
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I really like 4Dragons and am genuinely sorry to see him go

  10. #3070
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post

    so i completely agree with your diagnosis of the hayseed pathos. those people arent in play.
    I would remind you that Bernie is selling a different flavor of populism. Bernie checks the anger box in a different way. Trump was unopposed in 2016

    The Democrat Billionaire is looking for a different market. Republican swing voters are available, of course. He’s working hard at fucking that up already.

    Those hayseeds are a world wide phenomenon you best learn to recognize and not dismiss. It’s a serious thing. It affects economics and well... who governs ....EVERYWHERE

     
    Comments
      
      MumblesBadly: Soothsayer rep

  11. #3071
    Druff was titillated by the Klobuchar stapler throwing revelations. I think she should ramp up her Ďtude. Get nasty in public

    That plays imo

     
    Comments
      
      MumblesBadly: He’ll love even more that her staff didn’t properly prep her for an interview by Telemundo while campaigning in Nevada.

  12. #3072
    bloomberg's goal isnt to target any of the members of trumps cult with anything beyond his current standing brand; 'im better at everything trump represents'.
    I got you on the cutting him down to size thing here. I just have this gut feel that doesn’t resonate where it has to resonate.

    I’ve been here a long time and I struggle to explain it. I have this t-shirt I’ve had for years. It simply says Youngstown Hates You.

    That’s it. No explanation. When i first saw it I just thought it was fucking perfect. If I knew why it was perfect I feel like I’d be able to explain this better. It just is. There is a collective siege mentality to anyone left.

    Somehow Trump manages to seem like one of us despite that being absurd. There better be a whole lot of disaffected republicans looking to jump shit. The hayseeds are just mobilized. They’ve always been red. My town wasn’t and that’s a problem. They weren’t even Reagan Republicans when that was a thing.

    To people like where I live, that the other billionaires think Mike is really the smartest guy in the room isn’t something that wins them over. They’re protective of him as they would be of one of their own.

    I wanted to also say when I say hayseeds, I’m not trying to be insulting to rural people. I pretty much like everyone and I clearly just write this shit off the cuff and when I reread it I tend to think I sound like a douchebag or elitist when some do these hayseeds can buy and sell me a hundred times over. And they know shit that confounds me. Like if something breaks I’d much rather them be around than anyone I grew up with. Everyone s dad I grew up with worked in steel mills or assembly plants. That’s robotic work. You don’t really know how to do much and that’s part of the problem.

    I just mean they’ve viewed things a whole lot different than Dems for a long time. They weren’t Obama voters. What worked on winning them was simply wepaomized

    They frustrate me, but I like them. I call them hayseeds when I’m standing next to them. They’ll bust my balls about being a Democrat and start going on about some redneck shit and I’ll tell them them to go watch a Hee Haw rerun and let the adults talk. It’s good natured with an edge as discussing politics often is.

     
    Comments
      
      Sanlmar: Youngstown hates you. What a great riff
      
      sonatine: heard
      
      MumblesBadly: I
    Last edited by BCR; 02-18-2020 at 10:44 AM.

  13. #3073
    What is unique about BCR is his introspection. He makes me think a little differently every damn time he writes.

    What should make you chuckle is that Druff also trades in introspection ... but he contemplates his navel

     
    Comments
      
      BCR: This place is cheaper than a psych

  14. #3074
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    What is unique about BCR is his introspection. He makes me think a little differently every damn time he writes.

    What should make you chuckle is that Druff also trades in introspection ... but he contemplates his navel
    I love druff. I disagree politically with him, but Iím probably more likely to end up on his side than him mine. Plus heís got thick skin for the most part. This whole site is one big sanctuary city. Mumbles and others troll him and he still doesnít let the mob kick them out. You have to like that even if itís irritating. Different type of siege mentality growing up a republican in California.

     
    Comments
      
      MumblesBadly: I respect that he respects free speech.

  15. #3075
    Do you think when Benjamin's a teenager he'll rebel against his Dad by becoming super liberal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I really like 4Dragons and am genuinely sorry to see him go

  16. #3076
    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    Do you think when Benjamin's a teenager he'll rebel against his Dad by becoming super liberal?
    I’ll offer a parable

    In 2008-2009 I had to sell a house in the northeast. Housing crisis loss. It’s empty and on the market priced to move. It’s winter.

    So my daughter is prolly a HS sophomore. She decides to hold a party in the empty house. It wasn’t staged. There was zero furniture but the basement had some built in features and a bar. She jacks up the thermostat and history was made.

    I stop by what must have been days later and the house is frozen. Forced hot water heat and the copper pipes are frozen. Blocks of ice in the toilet. The plumbing.... who knows yet. OMG. I’m shitting myself. The most freaked I have prolly ever been.

    Daughter did a great job cleaning up. Literally no evidence. Just one thing, the 15 year old shut off the heat.

    I call a genius mechanic friend and he sets about thawing the copper heating pipes with a blowtorch and a bent license plate. Couple splits as the pipes thaw but generally lucky. Plumbing was fine

    My daughter posted the party on Facebook complete with pictures.

    I dodged what could have been a 6 figure disaster if I had to replumb or deal with flood as it thawed. Total luckbox

    We have never spoken about this incident. I swear to you. She knows that I know that she knows.

    I got a total lock on Druff the dad. Later though.

     
    Comments
      
      GambleBotsChafedPenis: Millenial Daughter/I Fucking LOLed Rep
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 02-18-2020 at 12:33 PM.

  17. #3077
    Druff clearly had an enchanted childhood in Southern California. Well-to-do parents. Family outings to the Stardust in Vegas. Acorn never fell far from the tree.

    I’ve never seen anyone so nostalgic for his youth. The desire to crawl back in the womb and all that. The recall of ages and dates. Only Marylu Henner can compete

    Most of us tried to black out adolescence and look forward.

    Your childhood informs you about raising your own kids. The endless cycle.

    I’m sure Druff is close, attentive and indulgent. I’d bet any amount.

    I kept my distance and respected their privacy. I didn’t snoop. I didn’t meddle in their social life. Never checked the drawers in their room. My wife was the curious snoop and we fought over the issue.

    I trash talked them when we played sports or board games. I have some regrets about that. Just minor. When I was their youth coach we NEVER spoke directly.

    We had endless family debate sessions. Thanksgiving dinners (multi generations) always ended in tears cause someone got smoked on an issue.

    I was not their pal. If they wanted to get out on their own and prove me wrong - I did my job.

    Druff is his son’s pal. His son will overcome that I hope.

    Of course I’m jealous. Druff’s life. Easy game

    You are lucky WillieMc
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 02-18-2020 at 01:20 PM.

  18. #3078
    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    bloomberg's goal isnt to target any of the members of trumps cult with anything beyond his current standing brand; 'im better at everything trump represents'.
    I got you on the cutting him down to size thing here. I just have this gut feel that doesn’t resonate where it has to resonate.

    I’ve been here a long time and I struggle to explain it. I have this t-shirt I’ve had for years. It simply says Youngstown Hates You.

    That’s it. No explanation. When i first saw it I just thought it was fucking perfect. If I knew why it was perfect I feel like I’d be able to explain this better. It just is. There is a collective siege mentality to anyone left.

    Somehow Trump manages to seem like one of us despite that being absurd. There better be a whole lot of disaffected republicans looking to jump shit. The hayseeds are just mobilized. They’ve always been red. My town wasn’t and that’s a problem. They weren’t even Reagan Republicans when that was a thing.

    To people like where I live, that the other billionaires think Mike is really the smartest guy in the room isn’t something that wins them over. They’re protective of him as they would be of one of their own.

    I wanted to also say when I say hayseeds, I’m not trying to be insulting to rural people. I pretty much like everyone and I clearly just write this shit off the cuff and when I reread it I tend to think I sound like a douchebag or elitist when some do these hayseeds can buy and sell me a hundred times over. And they know shit that confounds me. Like if something breaks I’d much rather them be around than anyone I grew up with. Everyone s dad I grew up with worked in steel mills or assembly plants. That’s robotic work. You don’t really know how to do much and that’s part of the problem.

    I just mean they’ve viewed things a whole lot different than Dems for a long time. They weren’t Obama voters. What worked on winning them was simply wepaomized

    They frustrate me, but I like them. I call them hayseeds when I’m standing next to them. They’ll bust my balls about being a Democrat and start going on about some redneck shit and I’ll tell them them to go watch a Hee Haw rerun and let the adults talk. It’s good natured with an edge as discussing politics often is.
    I passed by the closed GM plant near Youngstown again a few days ago. Still producing nothing but a desire by the locals to escape their ongoing economic plight by delving into opioids. Or vote for someone, anyone, that will fight “the Establishment”. And there are only two candidates in the running with that perspective by the voters there. One is Trump. The other is the guy who the Dem establishment is desperately trying to electorally kneecap before secures the nomination proceeds to throw all of the corrupt DNC hacks out on their asses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post
    There is only one scumbag here:


    ME

  19. #3079
    The Democrats worst nightmare is coming true.

    Bernie Sanders will become the Democratic nominee for President.


  20. #3080

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