Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordman
You're also not allowed to correct people when they call it an automatic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordman
You're also not allowed to correct people when they call it an automatic.
Does it really matter which make/model of assault rifle he used? I'm not advocating one side or the other in the inevitable upcoming gun debate (although I do find it disconcerting that this guy was able to legally buy something that he used to kill dozens of people).
I just don't see how the particular make/model of the semi-automatic assault rifle he used matters. But I'm genuinely interested to hear someone explain the relevance of this new info and how it could possibly affect any aspect of the gun debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by Gordman
You're also not allowed to correct people when they call it an automatic.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one.
It shoots 700 rounds a minute too lol
Like the reporter told Alan Grayson: show me an AR-15 (or any simi-auto) that you can fire 700 rounds a minute, and I will give you $50,000
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Originally Posted by Gordman
very very surprised they're not using the term long guns here. they love that term in the media as of late. (since Sandy hook)
Just a gay basher who was targeting only gays, no terrorism here folks.Quote:
Karla Ray Verified account
@KRayWFTV
#BREAKING- law enforcement source says Disney notified FBI the couple may have been casing Disney in April #WFTV
Do they have a gay part of Disneyland?
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Originally Posted by rum dick
1) you cant have a debate on something if youre not describing the subject correctly, and you sure as hell cant legislate without using correct nomenclature. there are huge differences between semi-auto, auto, and bolt action/single shot for example. perhaps more than anyone else here, you should be aware of the potential ramifications of taking legislature to congress that the NRA can describe as nonsensical and inaccurate and be 100% technically correct in doing so. that legislation wont get passed, period.
2) if you say hes using an AR-15, and you find hostages with front-facing gunshot wounds from an AR-15, and the swat team uses AR-15s, and all that goes on the record as 'killed by gunmen' but in reality the gunman was using a totally different make/caliber gun, what you have are a bunch of hostages quietly murdered by Florida McSwatfags and that right there is something Id want to know about if I woke up today shopping for funeral homes for my kid/husband/wife. no can tell me that a bunch of upjumped traffic cops with military hardware thought real hard about what they were aiming at after they *breached the clubs walls with c4 and confronted an active shooter hiding behind a wall of fags with weapons hot*. and thats conversation is coming, believe me.
i saw a tweet which actually kinda blew my mind... it described the shooting more or less as an american citizen just slaughtered a club full of gays. when you strip away the islam jibber jabber and get down to the stone facts, its safe to say big changes are coming; you just dont fuck with queens. they are easily one of the most effective and motivated political movements in the nation and have something like 40+ years of political connections to work with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rum dick
It absolutely does. Personally, it matters to me as I have weapons, and I don't wish for ignorant laws to be put in place based on misinformation and fear. The media loves bringing the AR-15 "assault rifle" into the spotlight before the bodies are even cold. Damn right im going to correct it
1) he didn't use an assault rifle. The media loves saying this term. Hell, im pretty sure they made it up. Assault rifles have been banned in this country for YEARS. Pretty much why the assault weapons ban from 1993 - 2004 did absolutely nothing to curtail assault weapons...because there wasn't much of any - hence it expired without being renewed.
Simply put, an assault rifle is capable of selective fire ( semi auto, 3 round burst and/or full auto). An AR is not an assault rifle, nor was the weapon that the shooters used. Notice I said SHOOTERS, which ill get to in a minute.
Anyway, everyone of course thinks the AR is some big scary weapon, when believe it or not, it is actually relatively low powered. Yes, it is semi auto and you can shoot 1 round for every trigger pull, but thats the same thing you can do with many rifles and handguns these days - and many of those models are much higher powered than an AR. Many areas don't even allow the AR-15 for deer hunting or other game (only small game), because it would take several rounds to put down an animal humanely.
Now on to talk about what actually happened there. Of course this is only my opinion, but something smells very fishy as far as the timeline of events as well as how many rounds this guy supposedly fired. Im not much of a conspiracy guy at all and normally roll my eyes at the stuff, but this situation smells bad.
So let me see if i have this right: A shooter walks into the nightclub and shoots 103 people in under 7 minutes at 2 am. Most of the people hit were shot with multiple rounds, there were reports of several dozen rounds fired in the air and dozens of rounds missing....
Three hours LATER, he engages in a gunfight with 9 officers...this supposedly lasts nearly an hour...
so lets add this up: One shooter in under 7 minutes reloaded his weapon 30 times with 30 rd mags, fires 1000 rounds of .223, takes a 3 hour break, and then engages in a gun battle with police lasting nearly an hour, of which the swat team described as a "hail of bullets"?
Many people don't realize how heavy 30 magazines are fully loaded...plus you're carrying the weapon and any other "tools". I would venture to say that 30 mags alone were over 40 lbs, oh and i forgot this guy fired MORE rounds in the gun battle with police that lasted an hour. The numbers just don't add up. What was this guy doing, carrying a 40+ lb ammo can and reloading his weapon with one hand!? And there is no tactical vest that I know of that will comfortably fit 30 magazines plus everything else.
No no no, im not buying it. There were at least 2 shooters and quite possibly even 3, and they escaped. Why is the media and police not mentioning this? who knows, maybe they don't want to scare the public or scare them away.
BTW, anyone please correct me if I gave wrong information on my above post, but that is the way I understood it.
Is there any talk about the 3 muslim somali guys who took hostages at a walmart in Texas today?
rumdick I'm also not advocating one side or the other, but here's a piece of an article from redstate:
http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2016...tive-building/Quote:
Only one tiny problem. Omar Mateen did not use an AR-15:
Now this Sig is every bit as dangerous as an AR-15. It is sold in a semi-auto version to sportsmen and in full automatic by assorted special operations forces worldwide. The point is that it is not and AR-15 and no one, other than the media, ever claimed it was an AR-15. In fact, there is no humanly possible way it could be mistaken for an AR-15. This is not a mistake. This is a narrative. It is designed to build a consensus that the AR-15 is uniquely dangerous and contrive to outlaw it. Once that is accomplished the cry will be raised to outlaw similar weapons.
And in regards to SWAT hitting people with bullets:
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/crime...382673091.htmlQuote:
On Monday, Orlando Police Chief John Mina and other law enforcement officers offered new details about the shooting, including the possibility that some victims may have been killed by officers trying to save them.
"I will say this, that's all part of the investigation," Mina said. "But I will say when our SWAT officers, about eight or nine officers, opened fire, the backdrop was a concrete wall and they were being fired upon."
A law enforcement source close to the investigation who asked not to be named because he wasn't authorized to speak publicly said a crowd of up to 300 people and the complex layout of the dance club may have resulted in some patrons being struck by gunfire from officers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordman
I dont agree with the theory that there were multiple shooters because not a single witness has suggested this was the case.
But I enthusiastically agree that the narrative presented makes exactly no sense at all. My gut is telling me the gunman killed about 15-20 people and the rest of the casualties and 80% of the shots fired came from swat.
that's quite possible. I thought I remember reading somewhere that one girl who was shot multiple times insisted there was more than one guy - then again, sigh...it brings up the possibility of the swat team.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by Gordman
I dont agree with the theory that there were multiple shooters because not a single witness has suggested this was the case.
But I enthusiastically agree that the narrative presented makes exactly no sense at all. My gut is telling me the gunman killed about 15-20 people and the rest of the casualties and 80% of the shots fired came from swat.
Sorry, Conservatives, Alan Grayson and Bernie Sanders Are Right About Automatic WeaponsQuote:
Originally Posted by GordmanQuote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one.
It shoots 700 rounds a minute too lol
Like the reporter told Alan Grayson: show me an AR-15 (or any simi-auto) that you can fire 700 rounds a minute, and I will give you $50,000
Quote:
Florida Democratic Congressman Alan Grayson is being mocked for saying that the AR-15 used in Sunday’s mass shooting in Orlando could fire 700 rounds per minute, with one conservative even offering to donate $50,000 to charity if Grayson could achieve that rate of fire with a semi-automatic AR-15. The basis of this criticism is that no human being could possibly pull the trigger fast enough to squeeze off that many rounds. As is often the case, reality is not the conservatives’ friend:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4...c-weapons_news
Some of the people in these videos are using an accessory, called a “slide stock,” that helps the shooter to fire more quickly, while others are using a technique called “bump fire” that uses the kick from the weapon to quickly fire rounds, but none of the semiautomatic weapons in that video were modified for automatic fire. Pay up.
As much as I hate the fucking police, in situations like this you are going to have some shit happen, like innocents dying in the confusion of a mass terrorist attack on hundreds of people. Despite whatever training they had there is no way they are prepared for something like this. In Orlando of all places.
I am sure they should have done some things differently, but these things never work out by the book and you just have to deal with it.
I would guess 4/5 were killed by the sand n-word.
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/crime...382673091.htmlQuote:
An off-duty Orlando police officer working at the club was investigating an underage drinker outside when he heard gunshots inside, according to the law enforcement source. The off-duty officer ran inside the club and traded gunfire with Mateen, backed up soon by three other Orlando police officers, the source said.
Together, the officers fired at Mateen, who retreated into a bathroom toward the rear of the club.
Not true. There are many people in the club claiming there was more than one shooter.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by Gordman
I dont agree with the theory that there were multiple shooters because not a single witness has suggested this was the case.
But I enthusiastically agree that the narrative presented makes exactly no sense at all. My gut is telling me the gunman killed about 15-20 people and the rest of the casualties and 80% of the shots fired came from swat.
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Originally Posted by BiffCo99Not true. There are many people in the club claiming there was more than one shooter.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
All Ive heard on the subject are blind attributions and not one single verifiable post/comment.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/VvDFI2Ll4pIQuote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by BiffCo99
All Ive heard on the subject are blind attributions and not one single verifiable post/comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry
id wager any amount that this is where multiple shooter theories came from.
Here's another one:Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by BiffCo99
All Ive heard on the subject are blind attributions and not one single verifiable post/comment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ35V0etHiM
also to be clear i 100% accept that youre going to lose hostages to friendly fire in these scenarios. like pretty much always. but i feel like if you asked me to pick a scenario where the cops would more or less deliberately strafe anything moving, id say 'florida mcswatfags airing out a gay club' would be the literal top of my list.
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Originally Posted by BiffCo99Here's another one:Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ35V0etHiM
so, someone apparently admitted that they held an exit closed from the outside, apparently they just lost their shit and were worried the gunman would come through the door and get them (seriously). and this guy didnt see two gunmen, he heard two guns going off at once, which could be the gunman with a gun in each hand or the cops shooting at him etc.
so im just not convinced, i think there would be a lot of real conclusive statements out there. like at bataclan, there was no confusion, everyone in the club was like "this guy was here, that guy was there, the third did this" etc.
Since you want to grasp at straws and argue semantics, the reporter would still win? because there was no AR - 15 used like Grayson claimed.Quote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsSatireSorry, Conservatives, Alan Grayson and Bernie Sanders Are Right About Automatic WeaponsQuote:
Originally Posted by Gordman
Quote:
Florida Democratic Congressman Alan Grayson is being mocked for saying that the AR-15 used in Sunday’s mass shooting in Orlando could fire 700 rounds per minute, with one conservative even offering to donate $50,000 to charity if Grayson could achieve that rate of fire with a semi-automatic AR-15. The basis of this criticism is that no human being could possibly pull the trigger fast enough to squeeze off that many rounds. As is often the case, reality is not the conservatives’ friend:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4...c-weapons_news
Some of the people in these videos are using an accessory, called a “slide stock,” that helps the shooter to fire more quickly, while others are using a technique called “bump fire” that uses the kick from the weapon to quickly fire rounds, but none of the semiautomatic weapons in that video were modified for automatic fire. Pay up.
Anyway, Ok, now you have to fire 700 rounds a minute. Try it. I'll even send you a bump stock and a bunch of 30 round mags. A 30 round mag on full auto drains ridiculously fast. Then you have to change it. Its not like in the movies. Not to mention the fact that bump stocks (if he even had one) make the gun much less accurate at placing rounds (just like regular full autos). This is why the basic rifle the military use is not fully automatic.
Yes, you can argue more semantics such as "well, it wouldn't matter with all of those people", but we could grasp at straws and argue semantics all day long. We could also say that all he had to do was modify the trigger (which is highly illegal) and he could make the weapon more automatic, but now you are modifying the AR-15 to get it to do what you want it to
My opinion - if they were going to ban automatic weapons, they should have included bump stocks. You either have it one way or the other.
So I'm to believe that Matten shot 100+ people in the time it took for an off-duty cop outside to hear shots and rush in and engage Mateen in a firefight, trapping him in the bathroom?Quote:
So far, authorities have determined Mateen, a 29-year-old security guard from Fort Pierce, walked up to the club at 2:02 a.m. Sunday armed with an AR-15 rifle and a Glock handgun.
An off-duty Orlando police officer working at the club was investigating an underage drinker outside when he heard gunshots inside, according to the law enforcement source. The off-duty officer ran inside the club and traded gunfire with Mateen, backed up soon by three other Orlando police officers, the source said.
Together, the officers fired at Mateen, who retreated into a bathroom toward the rear of the club.
My ass may be dumb but I aint no dumbass.
personally i believe every man woman and child should be equipped with a chicago typewriter
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Originally Posted by GambleBotsSatirepersonally i believe every man woman and child should be equipped with a chicago typewriter
as opposed to a chicago creepy writer
Lets spend another 3 pages arguing about semantics, and Matten's motivations. And lets not consider anything but own confirmation bias. Tight life faggots.
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Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by BiffCo99
All Ive heard on the subject are blind attributions and not one single verifiable post/comment.
Well to get to your point, if the the gay terrorist was shooting an AR and the SWAT team was using M4's, the bullets are all the same kind. So it would come down to rifling marks on the bullets to see if one bullet or another killed someone, but only from bullets that were still in the victims - and those bullets have a tendency to go right through people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by BiffCo99
so, someone apparently admitted that they held an exit closed from the outside, apparently they just lost their shit and were worried the gunman would come through the door and get them (seriously). and this guy didnt see two gunmen, he heard two guns going off at once, which could be the gunman with a gun in each hand or the cops shooting at him etc.
so im just not convinced, i think there would be a lot of real conclusive statements out there. like at bataclan, there was no confusion, everyone in the club was like "this guy was here, that guy was there, the third did this" etc.
geeez. holy shit that dudes flaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiffCo99https://www.youtube.com/embed/VvDFI2Ll4pIQuote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DragonsQuote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
Well to get to your point, if the the gay terrorist was shooting an AR and the SWAT team was using M4's, the bullets are all the same kind. So it would come down to rifling marks on the bullets to see if one bullet or another killed someone, but only from bullets that were still in the victims - and those bullets have a tendency to go right through people.
My understanding is that swat teams deliberately use rounds chosen to disperse foot-pounds within the body of the target, and they avoid hyper velocity/full jacket rounds for exactly that reason. So really the odds of them using the same round are actually pretty thin. Caliber, maybe.
My point being... I mean your point is well taken but I think its hardly a rebuttal to the assertion that an impartial audit of who shot what would be not just possible but telling here, and that correctly identifying weapons/rounds/attribution is essential if one intends to frame the incident in proper context for discussion.
Is that your personal opinion....looks oddly familiar. I've read this exact statement word for word online about 10 times today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muck FiconIs that your personal opinion....looks oddly familiar. I've read this exact statement word for word online about 10 times today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordman
http://ingunowners.com/forums/genera...nt-add-up.html
lol Gordman. Shut it down.
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The Math that doesn’t add up:
A man walks in to a night club with an AR-15, shoots 103 people in under 7 minutes at 2am. The majority of the victims were shot multiple times, some as many as 12 times, with reports of several dozen rounds fired in the air and several dozens of rounds missing. 3 hours later, engages in a gun battle with 9 police officers that lasts nearly an hour.
So let me get this straight…one lone shooter in under 7 minutes reloaded his AR-15 30 times with 30rd magazines in under 7 minutes, firing nearly 1,000rds of .223 ammunition while in a nightclub surrounded by 320 people, managing to kill and injure 1/3 of them, takes a 3 hour break, and then engages in another gun battle lasting nearly and hour in what was described as a “hail of bullets” with a SWAT team?
Having years and years of experience with AR-15s, it would take me nearly 7 minutes to reload 30 times…let alone having time to aim and shoot 1,000 rounds semi-automatic in between firing dozens of rounds in the air screaming “Aloha Snack Bar”…just saying…something doesn’t add up…
Let’s not even mention the fact that he managed to have 30, 30rd AR mags loaded and at the ready in order to do it under 7 minutes. If he is holding an ammo can in one hand (that weighs 40 pounds) and an AR in the other…what was he doing…reloading and firing with one hand at the same time? Either that, or he had a tactical vest from Hell that was able to hold 30 mags!! Something ain’t right folks…
I don't always rebut, sometimes I agree. Considering the sound of the weapons exchange from the video of the club, I have to agree. The point was more about any conclusive evidence of your hypothesis ever coming to light. I just don't see that happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by 4Dragons
My understanding is that swat teams deliberately use rounds chosen to disperse foot-pounds within the body of the target, and they avoid hyper velocity/full jacket rounds for exactly that reason. So really the odds of them using the same round are actually pretty thin. Caliber, maybe.
My point being... I mean your point is well taken but I think its hardly a rebuttal to the assertion that an impartial audit of who shot what would be not just possible but telling here, and that correctly identifying weapons/rounds/attribution is essential if one intends to frame the incident in proper context for discussion.
Crying on camera but no visible signs of tears is becoming a thing of late.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2ZIDHP24n4
Nothing to see here folks. Carry on drinking that kool-aid.
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Originally Posted by Muck FiconIs that your personal opinion....looks oddly familiar. I've read this exact statement word for word online about 10 times today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordman
oooh you got me
I saw that post and cross referenced the timeline since i thought most of it was pretty spot on, plus I already knew pretty much the technicals of what this guy would have had to do to pull it off. did you see me copy/paste it? I could have easily done that, but some of his wording I didn't 100% agree with. So I took a good portion of the situation from that post, big deal. Does that make it more or less true? Is that all you have? Exactly how often have you seen me even do something like this - im guessing pretty much never.
I mean, if you are going to hammer on me with this, then you sure as hell be on pretty much every one of Mumbles posts.
And quit fucking derailing like some of the other posters here
Calm down lol. I was just pointing it out....and for the record, I basically tell Mumbles to drive his truck off a bridge on a daily basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by GordmanQuote:
Originally Posted by Muck Ficon
oooh you got me
I saw that post and cross referenced the timeline since i thought most of it was pretty spot on, plus I already knew pretty much the technicals of what this guy would have had to do to pull it off. did you see me copy/paste it? I could have easily done that, but some of his wording I didn't 100% agree with. So I took a good portion of the situation from that post, big deal. Does that make it more or less true? Is that all you have? Exactly how often have you seen me even do something like this - im guessing pretty much never.
I mean, if you are going to hammer on me with this, then you sure as hell be on pretty much every one of Mumbles posts.
And quit fucking derailing like some of the other posters here