It’s pretty bad right now all over the league. Tons of teams have key players out with Covid.
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It’s pretty bad right now all over the league. Tons of teams have key players out with Covid.
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Originally Posted by nightmarefish
Not sure the problem is Westbrook, he’s played exactly how he was supposed to play, FG and 3P percentages are slightly higher than career averages actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalam
Here’s the Lakers year:
They get off to a slow start mainly because Lebron missed 12 games.
Lebron comes back and they start playing a little better and figuring things out. Overall record goes to 16-13, not great but after the slow start it’s good enough for 4th in the west.
Then AD gets hurt and 6 players and their coach go out with Covid. Lakers go 1-5 in this stretch and every analyst in the world loses their mind, mostly blaming Russ for the losing, ignoring that the Lakers are playing with several bums literally off the street.
Last night, they great they’re coach back many of their important role players and all of a sudden play better. Shocking turn of events.
AD Lebron and Russ have played like 10 games together all season.
I watch the end of pretty much every close game. You are right, Russ is who he always has been, which means a complete liability on a Lebron team in the 4th Q of a close game, on offense and defense. Whatever the stats say, the eye test says he is a big part of losing winnable games with his play down the stretch. And the eye test hasn't been kind to Davis either. It seems he misses every high leverage wide open 3 point shot he takes (and the numbers actually back this as he is currently at 17%).
Last night was a layup line all night, as Portland (who has bad defense under the best of circumstances) was playing a mostly G League roster and had no defense all night. I wouldn't take much from that.
I agree you can’t take much from last night but you also can’t take much from the previous 6 games where the Lakers went 1-5 when they were starting G leaguers and worse. Defense is the Lakers biggest flaw and is why coming into the season it was so important for AD to be healthy and play like he’s all NBA first team. He hasn’t been healthy and has played nearly to the level they need.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalamQuote:
Originally Posted by nightmarefish
I watch the end of pretty much every close game. You are right, Russ is who he always has been, which means a complete liability on a Lebron team in the 4th Q of a close game, on offense and defense. Whatever the stats say, the eye test says he is a big part of losing winnable games with his play down the stretch. And the eye test hasn't been kind to Davis either. It seems he misses every high leverage wide open 3 point shot he takes (and the numbers actually back this as he is currently at 17%).
Last night was a layup line all night, as Portland (who has bad defense under the best of circumstances) was playing a mostly G League roster and had no defense all night. I wouldn't take much from that.
Jumping around League Pass right now; not a great slate today even if teams were at full strength but holy shit this is bleak.Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmarefish
After 2 wins where he started, the Lakers not picking up Johnson is bizarre. I guess they decided they are going to roll with Ariza in that roll (at least until the invariable injury). I dont have the basketball acumen to quantitate the defensive drop-off (if any), but it is pretty clear to see Ariza is a career 35% 3 point shooter, and Johnson 28%, so I guess makes sense.
Ariza was once a really exciting player who could make things happen (especially defensively), but we're talking the 2000s here, during his first go-around with the Lakers.
It's actually pretty amazing the list of has-beens the Lakers signed:
Trevor Ariza
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard
Darren Collison
DeAndre Jordan
Surprised they don't bring back the two Gasol brothers for old times sake.
Johnson back on the team and back in starting lineup. So I guess fake news on my part and there was probably some contractual reason they dropped him for 1 game and picked him up again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalam
Surprised the Warriors are bringing Klay back opposite the last SNF game of the year, where it can only be televised nationally on NBA TV. You know ESPN/TNT would prefer they do it on a weekday so they could televise it nationally and make a big promotion out of it. Maybe bringing him back on an Sunday during football season is a strategic move to avoid that.
IIRC he was a hardship player. Have to drop him as soon as you dont need him. Then got signed to an official 10 dayQuote:
Originally Posted by KalamJohnson back on the team and back in starting lineup. So I guess fake news on my part and there was probably some contractual reason they dropped him for 1 game and picked him up again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalam
Getting to see Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving toy with Portland tonight in 100 level for $40 in a seat that would usually be $300-400 for this game lol.
Durant obv god but forgot what a joy Kyrie can be live.
Both giving like 70% effort on a road game cross country back to back. Feels like an exhibition game, hence the posting.
LOL Lakers
Having watched a lot of Lakers games this year there has been so many times in a close game in last two minutes where they help on Lebron the ball gets swung a few times and by design Russs is wide open for a 3. He has 0 confidence shooting the ball and can't finish in traffic like he used to. I keep thinking he is going to improve and the Lakers will get better. It obv is not happening and I wouldn't be surprised if he is on the bench in crunch time in some playoff games.. Not a Laker fan at all but if they want to advance it must be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
Quote:
Originally Posted by padre33Having watched a lot of Lakers games this year there has been so many times in a close game in last two minutes where they help on Lebron the ball gets swung a few times and by design Russs is wide open for a 3. He has 0 confidence shooting the ball and can't finish in traffic like he used to. I keep thinking he is going to improve and the Lakers will get better. It obv is not happening and I wouldn't be surprised if he is on the bench in crunch time in some playoff games.. Not a Laker fan at all but if they want to advance it must be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
Lol getting trolled by the Kings.
I was a huge fan of him on those OKC teams with Durant and Harden. Just so fucking wildly athletic. Still plays hard as shit every night even if it's more often than not bad.
Also loved how him and Dame always really went at it; often got the best of Portland and was really electric live.
So looks like Frank Vogel tried to get himself fired last night and failed (so far). He benched Russell Westbrook in the 4th Q yesterday when the Lakers were losing, which was probably the right choice, but also probably not something a 22-22 coach can do and survive. It looks like he knows he isn't surviving anyways, so he said F It.
The Lakers are going on a 6 game East Coast trip and I put their O/U of wins at 1.5. Pretty sure Vogel was trying to get fired now to avoid going on the trip. But the Lakers said FU and are probably going to dump him somewhere on the East Coast and make him fly his ass home.
Good stuff.
Maybe time to just moneyline fade the Lakers for awhile?
They're down by 9 near the end of the first half against the 8-38 Magic.
I can only imagine how much money could have been made by just blindly firing every dog against the Lakers this season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Yeah I really like the Titans tmrw and perused the NBA games to see if there was something I felt comfortable adding to a ML parlay and there truly wasn’t a single -350 team I really had any confidence in. Not -350 confidence. I just laughed at the Lakers. Think they were -360 or -380 and I just wondered who in the world would bet that?
They’ll likely come back and beat Orlando as they’re horrible, but even if you like the Lakers, the better play is to just wait until they are locked in a dogfight with a piece of shit team and bet them live at -160 when they are in a tie with some garbage team in the 3rd. Best to avoid them altogether or fade them, but if you’re going to
bet them, betting the opening is a horrible option. They don’t beat any team comfortably.
I giggled at the Rockets saying they’d part with John Wall for Westbrook if the Lakers throw in a first today.
The funniest part is it might be a smart move.
Wall is usually hurt, but he’s better if healthy. It just seems all time worst move territory if you go back to before the season and think of trading Kuzma, KCP, Harrell, Westbrook, and a first and some other lesser picks for John Wall. Some absurd horrible idea might be preferable to their actual situation. A healthy AD might make them a second round out rather than play in out, but it’s amazing that this is where they are at.
I watch a lot of basketball, and I am probably wrong but the eye test suggests to me that teams are giving up EV by not going for offensive rebounds, ESPECIALLY in the 3 point era with so many long rebounds. Time after time I see a guy take a 3 and then the ball bounce hard off the rim and go almost all the way back to the 3 point line near an offensive player. But that player is invariably turned around and already jogging back and a defender who is farther away corrals the rebound.
Would you really be giving up too much on transition D if the 2 or 3 guys hanging out at the 3 point line during any given possession waited to see where the rebound was going to see if they can make a play on it before turning around and getting back on D? My gut is no, but I assume people who understand basketball way better than me have analyzed this question and are satisfied with their answer to it.
Lakers Suck. I would be surprised if they make the playoffs this year.
https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8090677248...suck-it-lakers
I didn't think Vogel was going to survive the current 6 game road trip, but they are 2-1 and looked good yesterday with Davis (against a very depleted Nets team FWIW), and the other 3 games are very winnable, so we shall see.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheXFactor
Westbrook's usage (and turnovers) seem to be going down as the year progresses, so it will be interesting to see if this unlocks the offense some. And playing younger guys like Monk, Reaves and Johnson seems to have helped the defense too, so again we shall see what happens.
Came across some Laker tickets and went to the Knicks game. Great seats in the PR section right behind the TV commentators. Lebron and Davis were real good. Davis pretty much was in a war in the paint the entire time he was in the game, going 1 vs 2 (him against Randall and whatever Knick center was in at the moment-- Robinson, Noel, Toppin, etc.). For good or bad, Monk has cemented himself as the 3rd scoring option. Randall and Barrett played real well for the Knicks. Randall was an absolute beast and pretty much single handedly kept the Knicks in the game in the 4th quarter.
Which leads us to Russell Westbrook. He possible played his worst game ever (not just as a Laker, but ever). Was left wide open on the perimeter and couldn't hit a shot to save his life, and missed all his layups too when he went into the paint. The crowd was booing and jeering him pretty relentlessly too. Vogel actually took him out most of the 3rd Q and the beginning of 4th Q, while the Lakers made a run and turned a 15 point deficit into a 8 point lead. Then Vogel put him in the last 4 minutes of the 4th Q, and you could hear the collective groan from the crowd. And sure enough the Knicks came roaring back and tied the game at the end to send it to OT. And this included Russ getting internally fouled when Lakers were up 5 with about 1:30 left and missing both his free throws.
When Vogel left Russ on the bench for the start of OT you could hear the collective relief from the crowd, and Lakers cruised to an easy OT victory.
Such a disaster. What sucks is Lebron has been great all year, AD is really playing well since he came back from injury, and Monk has emerged as a great scoring option. If Lakers could have spent that $40M/yr on 2-3 good role players to fill out the roster (eg. Powell and Covington who the Clippers got for absolutely nothing but expiring contracts), they would be in such a great spot right now. But alas, it is what it is.
Even more concerning is the whole point of getting Russ was so Lebron could rest his legs while Russ did his thing. But the Lakers just cant compete when Lebron is off the floor and Russ is, and in his 1st game back from resting a sore knee Lebron had to play 40 minutes, mostly at point guard with heavy usage.
You catch the game last night where the Lakers lost to basically a G league team that just traded away 3 starters and Dame was hurt? For significant stretches in that game, I'd only heard of one player on the floor for Portland, Dennis Smith Jr who is close to out of the league. Oh ya, Russ don't play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalam
Team is a dumpster fire. Russ getting all the hate though. Lebron has been great offensively but he's terrible at team defense now which is where the team really struggles. AD has been matched up with Giannis two games this year and Giannis has 91 points on 35/43 shooting, 81%. AD's numbers are there but when you watch him he's just going through the motions, could average 25-10 sleep walking. Coach needs to be fired at a minimum after they failed to make any trades.
Yup. Complete fail. Didn't help that they surrounded the stars with role players who were in their prime in the 2000s.Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmarefishYou catch the game last night where the Lakers lost to basically a G league team that just traded away 3 starters and Dame was hurt? For significant stretches in that game, I'd only heard of one player on the floor for Portland, Dennis Smith Jr who is close to out of the league. Oh ya, Russ don't play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalam
Team is a dumpster fire. Russ getting all the hate though. Lebron has been great offensively but he's terrible at team defense now which is where the team really struggles. AD has been matched up with Giannis two games this year and Giannis has 91 points on 35/43 shooting, 81%. AD's numbers are there but when you watch him he's just going through the motions, could average 25-10 sleep walking. Coach needs to be fired at a minimum after they failed to make any trades.
Even horrible Orlando stomped on this Portland team full of nobodies. Lakers couldn't even win.
Sad!
Ya Orlando beat them the night before by 18. Orlando got to be the worse team in the NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffYup. Complete fail. Didn't help that they surrounded the stars with role players who were in their prime in the 2000s.Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmarefish
Even horrible Orlando stomped on this Portland team full of nobodies. Lakers couldn't even win.
Sad!
Hell, a week ago without Lebron, The Lakers beat Portland before Portland traded 3 starters away. They held Portland to 94 points that night. Lakers are much better offensively with Lebron in the lineup but much better defensively when he doesn't play. They gave up 71 points in the first half to the Knicks then 79 in the first half to the Bucks. SMH
So Philly traded a guy who choked in the playoffs for a better guy who has choked more in the playoffs than any player since Karl Malone.
I haven't thought much about it but count me out. It's going to look good initially because Harden hasn't been trying. See no reason his playoff limitations don't resurface against a better coached team.
Obviously Philly does this trade 100 times out of 100, but will be fun to see a crazed, trashy fan base have to stomach James Harden.
I assume Harden was tanking again the last month like last year with the Rockets, but he’s out of shape and 33. I assume he’ll come in and kill it for a few weeks, but they made the Nets formidable if they get healthy physically and mentally. They have guys who won’t need Simmons to score in the playoffs if they’re actually on the court. Both teams were in a bad spot, but strange ass trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe
Philly basically betting the farm that the Nets won’t be able to get their two head cases on the same page come playoff time. Not a bad bet, but if they are there, they’ll smoke Philly. I mean Kyrie can play off the ball. Nets got shooting and defense and picks. I think the Nets won the trade. I find the Morey was right narrative strange.
Simmons wasn't going to play for them again. So that was a sunk cost already. So Philly traded Seth Curry and Drummond and some low picks for Harden. Not the worst trade if you look at things this way. Lillard and Beal are hurt, and Philly is in win now mode with Embiid playing as well as he is, so not really any better options if you are tying to win this year. Obviously in an ideal world you would prefer to help a Western team instead of a rival, but there just wasn't any trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRI assume Harden was tanking again the last month like last year with the Rockets, but he’s out of shape and 33. I assume he’ll come in and kill it for a few weeks, but they made the Nets formidable if they get healthy physically and mentally. They have guys who won’t need Simmons to score in the playoffs if they’re actually on the court. Both teams were in a bad spot, but strange ass trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe
Philly basically betting the farm that the Nets won’t be able to get their two head cases on the same page come playoff time. Not a bad bet, but if they are there, they’ll smoke Philly. I mean Kyrie can play off the ball. Nets got shooting and defense and picks. I think the Nets won the trade. I find the Morey was right narrative strange.
I don't know if Harden was tanking near the end, but when Durant first got hurt he actually had a good run where Brooklyn was winning games (including Lakers on Christmas) before the most recent tailspin. So it is not like he is Carmelo and you have to go back years to find the last time he played good.
The Mavericks and Washington are 2 teams I really dont know what they are doing. Is Washington going to rebuild around Beal, Kuzma, and Porzingis? Are they going to dump Beal and Porzingis and start over? I really have no clue. The Mavericks too not sure what is going on. They have been playing good lately, and Porzingis has looked good when healthy. Does getting a 3rd PG (whose ceiling is probably backup PG on a good team) to backup the most ball dominant player in the league do anything for you? I don't see it.
I will listen to some Ringer stuff driving to work today and see what (Bill) Simmons and crew thinks.
I actually watched the Orlando/Portland game because I bet on it. It was close and then Orlando got super hot and rained down a bunch of 3's in the last 2-3 minutes. Score was a little deceptive.Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmarefishYa Orlando beat them the night before by 18. Orlando got to be the worse team in the NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Hell, a week ago without Lebron, The Lakers beat Portland before Portland traded 3 starters away. They held Portland to 94 points that night. Lakers are much better offensively with Lebron in the lineup but much better defensively when he doesn't play. They gave up 71 points in the first half to the Knicks then 79 in the first half to the Bucks. SMH
Anyways, not playing Russ doesn't do a lot for you if the alternative is playing the corpse of the basketball player formerly known as Avery Bradley for 32 minutes. Lebron, Davis and Monk all had a bunch of turnovers so they so didn't even get any relief from Russ's turnover problems. Obviously they didn't play Russ to see if they could get a last minute Hail Mary trade for him, but wasn't meant to be. So going to have to scour the buyout market for guys like Dragic and Eric Gordon (if he is bought out) to try to incrementally improve. Not a great spot to be in.
But yeah, getting rid of all their good defensive players seems like a bad move in hindsight.
Orlando's record isn't deceptive though, before that win they had the worst record in the NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalamI actually watched the Orlando/Portland game because I bet on it. It was close and then Orlando got super hot and rained down a bunch of 3's in the last 2-3 minutes. Score was a little deceptive.Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmarefish
Anyways, not playing Russ doesn't do a lot for you if the alternative is playing the corpse of the basketball player formerly known as Avery Bradley for 32 minutes. Lebron, Davis and Monk all had a bunch of turnovers so they so didn't even get any relief from Russ's turnover problems. Obviously they didn't play Russ to see if they could get a last minute Hail Mary trade for him, but wasn't meant to be. So going to have to scour the buyout market for guys like Dragic and Eric Gordon (if he is bought out) to try to incrementally improve. Not a great spot to be in.
But yeah, getting rid of all their good defensive players seems like a bad move in hindsight.
Lebron is playing great offensively, the best someone has ever been at his age. However, if you really watch closely, his defense is terrible. He'll still get the occasional chase down block or highlight reel steal but play to play he's awful. Any team that has someone penetrate and make 2 passes will lead to a wide open 3 pointer. Plus they continue to play small and can't guard the paint. They gave up 70 points in the paint to Sac a few weeks ago, 70. Even Portland had like 20 points more than their average in the paint. Lakers were on fire from three and still got beat by G league Portland, it's embarrassing. Worse loss a can remember.
They are better offensively playing small but they need to play big IMO so they're better defensively. Play Dwight Howard more and find someone on the market. Maybe Enes Freedom. He's not good defensively but he's big and a great rebounder. Another problem of the Lakers is giving up offensive rebounds so he can help with that. Plus he played well with Russ in OKC.
Also, LOL at faggot NBA players.
LOL at the media having to carry the narrative of Ben Simmons and his poor mental health.
Makes 30m a year and got upset about his coach and teammate saying he came up short after he came up short. Refuses to play, demands trade.
Team doesn't budge and gets no real offers. Plays mental health card to try and not lose all money. But we have to be sensitive!
Meanwhile, some out of shape drunk who is good at basketball and now making like 45m a year decides he's unhappy after forcing his way out of his last team, a team he effectively destroyed over the years because he couldn't get along with any other good players. He's not happy with, among other things, a teammate making 30m a year who can only play part-time because he refuses to get vaccinated and behaves like a galaxy brain faggot with AIDS. The vaxx rule looks more and more ridiculous given data, but still. You make 30m to play basketball.
These faggots get swapped and it draws more attention and eyeballs than actual games.
Richer they get, the more lazy they get. Basketball is the least physically taxing of the big 4 sports, and also really the only one where players whine about needing rest days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe
McDavid might go down as the best hockey player of all-time, and his salary is about 30% of Harden's salary this year. Fucking China.Quote:
Combined, the NHL’s ten highest-paid players are set to collect $117 million, a pittance compared with the top-ten totals in the NBA ($714 million), the NFL ($418 million) and even Major League Baseball ($357 million).
Lol NBA load management. Is Embid playing today? I ceased giving any fucks at all cause why should I when he doesn’t.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
Hockey players still cross checking opponents into the wall at the risk of paralysis. Still fighting. No one has a complete set of teeth and it’s a point of pride.
Man, the Nets thing was the fail we all predicted it would be. Kyrie and Harden. Im sad no one rode the collapse in the wagering thread. I completely missed it.
Why didn’t LeBron make any moves at the trade deadline? Leaving that max slot open for Bronny
Actually Bill Simmons says in his opinion is the problem is there is way more running and possessions than there was 20 years ago when the game was a lot slower. And for the high usage players especially it really is way too much to expect them to play a 82 game season and playoffs (especially someone like Embiid who is 7'1"). He says what they really need to do is just play a 60 or 70 game season. But noone is willing to give up the money, so not happening anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarLol NBA load management. Is Embid playing today? I ceased giving any fucks at all cause why should I when he doesn’t.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
Hockey players still cross checking opponents into the wall at the risk of paralysis. Still fighting. No one has a complete set of teeth and it’s a point of pride.
Man, the Nets thing was the fail we all predicted it would be. Kyrie and Harden. Im sad no one rode the collapse in the wagering thread. I completely missed it.
Yeah, unless Dwight or DeAndre are playing no one except Davis on the Lakers will even go in the paint. The game I went to recently, I noticed this. It was just Davis vs. multiple Knicks. Davis was very locked in that game and the Lakers were able to make it work. But I am guessing the Portland game Nurkic is just so heavy and hard to move, and Davis wasn't super engaged on top of if, so they just gave up too many second chance points. On one of the Ringer pods one of the guys (I forget who) mentioned that advanced analytics suggest they should play Howard more for the reasons you outlined. But I am not sure Howard can really play more. His body is really broken down and he should probably be out of the league except I think he needs the money because he has like 10 kids he is paying child support for.Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmarefishOrlando's record isn't deceptive though, before that win they had the worst record in the NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalam
Lebron is playing great offensively, the best someone has ever been at his age. However, if you really watch closely, his defense is terrible. He'll still get the occasional chase down block or highlight reel steal but play to play he's awful. Any team that has someone penetrate and make 2 passes will lead to a wide open 3 pointer. Plus they continue to play small and can't guard the paint. They gave up 70 points in the paint to Sac a few weeks ago, 70. Even Portland had like 20 points more than their average in the paint. Lakers were on fire from three and still got beat by G league Portland, it's embarrassing. Worse loss a can remember.
They are better offensively playing small but they need to play big IMO so they're better defensively. Play Dwight Howard more and find someone on the market. Maybe Enes Freedom. He's not good defensively but he's big and a great rebounder. Another problem of the Lakers is giving up offensive rebounds so he can help with that. Plus he played well with Russ in OKC.
Meh. He is a decent athlete, but didn't get the height and looks like he topped out around 6'2". And since he isn't a PG not really a path for him to get to the NBA at all at that size.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
I did not understand the depth of the idiocy of NYC's vax mandate until an article I just read regarding the trade. I was under the assumption that ALL players playing in a NYC arena had to be vaxxed. Nope. Only if you are on the home team/employed by a NYC business. That is absurd. Maybe this was covered more for you east-coasters, but I hadn't heard about it.
I double checked and yup, when the Wizards played @ Brooklyn early in the season, un-vaxxed Beal was allowed to play, while Kyrie was not.
You know my libertarian streak is reaching a new high when government is making me feel empathy for Kyrie.
“Empathy for (crazy) Kyrie”. Well doneQuote:
Originally Posted by gut
That is some crazy Vax trivia. I don’t think Kyrie wanted to play anyway but he should have the opportunity.
Reading your post it occurred to me that I haven’t done Bill Simmons for such a long time. If he approached the NBA with more humor and less seriousness that might appeal more to my sensiblility. The Ringer was an enjoyable take but there is so much quality podcast competition.
i went through alot of avatars at borispoker.com. where is my "PFA futures GOD" one imo
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