Elementary School Shooting

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Originally Posted by 4Dragons

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Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

Assuming you're not talking about me, because no sane person could think the Walter Sobchak character in the Big Lebowski glorifies guns.

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First level thinking: Walter Sobchak in the Big Lebowski glorifies guns.
A bit deeper: I promote a movie with my avatar that has a guy with a gun in it.
Almost abstract: I not only put my money into supporting a movie that features guns and violence, I made an online persona that features said character carrying the thing that I publicly decry, making me a hypocrite of the highest order.

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Completely retarded

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Site is running fine for me, but please let me know if you're experiencing mass slowdowns.

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I was experiencing very slow or no loading, and this was the only site. Seems to be better now though.

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Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Facebook page of the Ryan Lanza originally from Newtown (the one I believe to be the shooter) was just deleted.

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Check the first post of this guy who was a friend of his out:

http://www.facebook.com/robbajor

nevermind, I seen your post above.

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Interesting, this guy Rob that I clicked on off Ryan's facebook that was deleted well his post on his wall regarding it not being the right Ryan has been removed.

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Originally Posted by rickastley

Piers Morgan ‏@piersmorgan

BREAKING: Shooter identified as Ryan Lanza, mother was teacher at school. He killed her, too.

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Holy shit, took out his anger on those poor kids because he wasnt getting enough attention from his mom

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by devidee

I think Druff is wrong (in regard to the pics he posted).

I believe this is the shooter...

www.linkedin.com/pub/ryan-lanza/45/934/9bb

EDIT: Druff may be correct. Either Ryan Lanza or someone else is posting from his FB page claiming he isn't the shooter.

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I think there are 2 Ryan Lanzas from New Jersey.

The one you just posted is 26 years old, and from Atco. I don't think he's the shooter.

Here is what I believe to be the innocent Ryan's Myspace, and you'll see he's 26. http://www.myspace.com/bigbuzz

The one I posted is from Hoboken (which is 94 miles from Atco), and I'm not sure of his age, but 24 looks very possible, and the shooter is 24.

Here is what I believe to be the shooter's Facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/rlanza

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Very strange.... this is the first one i saw too, with all the pictures you had posted now its deleted...

who would delete his account now? facebook?

What happened this morning was horrible. There are not enough bans in the world to eliminate the evil that resides in a person's heart.

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Originally Posted by Wiganer

In the past it's been suggested here by Druff and others, that non-Americans shouldn't comment on matters American.

That is arrant nonsense, especially when you see how debate between Americans so often degenerates into extremes of uber-liberal vs uber-conservative.

So, from an outsider's perspective:

As the cliche goes, the problem is not with guns, it is with the people who have and use guns, and the culture within which they reside.

Someone suggested earlier that such atrocities don't happen in places with tight gun controls and/or fewer guns.

That isn't true.

Think Anders Breivik in Norway, Dunblane or Hungerford massacres in the UK for examples of atrocities in countries with tight gun controls. That said, these instances are rarer, and the overall rate of gun violence is lower.

But, if you really want to get an insight into root causes and possible solutions to your problem with guns then try and find a country that like yours has lots of guns in private hands, but without your gun problems, and think about why the difference.

The country you should think about is Switzerland.

Switzerland COMPELS male citizens to hold guns and be trained in their use. In effect the citizenry is a militia, a step beyond your "right to bear arms".

And yet, the rate of gun crime violence in Switzerland is minute, while yours is catastrophically high.

This is simply because of the different cultures. Whilst Switzerland has had violence and tensions in its history, it has generally been unified, and peaceful, with a commitment to neutrality and relative isolationism.

America, by contrast, was formed in essence by armed invasion by people united to some degree by the British "imperialist mindset" but also with significant non-cohesive tendencies due in part to the high proportion of non-conformist religionists, Deist freethinkers etc, who had consciously sought out the New World as a refuge from the hegemony of the old.

The subsequent formative years of transition from a colony and early history as a nation involved slavery/emancipation, armed rebellion, civil war, high levels of banditry and armed gangs, and high levels of immigration from all corners of the globe.

Despite this, you have, from many perspectives built one of the greatest nations/empires in human history, but one whose celebration of individualism and acceptance of inequalities cast a shadow over your undoubted achievements.

Those forces, and others, lead America to have an innate tendency towards violence. That can change, but it will take a long time. It definitely will not be changed by putting an armed guard in every classroom, arming every citizen, or building and filling more and more prisons. You don't cure an alcoholic by handing him a case of whisky.

It could be achieved, gradually, with a steady disarmament and pacification, by a cultural shift, and one which resolves the never yet resolved contradiction between being the UNITED States of America, and being the United STATES of America.

Achieve that and you will again be revered by the rest of the world as you were when you put the first man on the moon, and seen as a true leading society, one that leads through authority, not through firepower.

p.s. Flame away, just don't shoot.

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Agree with most of this. It's amazing how people from outside the US can see things so clearly while Americans themselves are so blind to it.

One thing I disagree with is your comment about this sort of thing happening in other countries. The Norway event was once in a lifetime. Here it's a couple times a week!

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Originally Posted by devidee

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Facebook page of the Ryan Lanza originally from Newtown (the one I believe to be the shooter) was just deleted.

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This is what I was referring to...

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Fake, is this the page? : http://www.facebook.com/#!/jim.duran.33?fref=ts

Some idiot name Jim duran changeed his name to ryan lanza to play games... he should be screwed with imo

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Originally Posted by backdoorb

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Originally Posted by devidee

This is what I was referring to...

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Fake, is this the page? : http://www.facebook.com/#!/jim.duran.33?fref=ts

Some idiot name Jim duran changeed his name to ryan lanza to play games... he should be screwed with imo

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What a POS.

I thought the WASNT ME WASNT ME crap didnt seem like a real reaction from a guy accused of killing 18 kids.

If a dude with yuor name shot up a elementary school and everyone was blaming you, would you put out a serious statement making sure people understood, or would you post WASNT ME, ON THE BUS NOW, WASNT ME.

So now one of his brothers was found dead in a different location?

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Originally Posted by backdoorb

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Originally Posted by devidee

This is what I was referring to...

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Fake, is this the page? : http://www.facebook.com/#!/jim.duran.33?fref=ts

Some idiot name Jim duran changeed his name to ryan lanza to play games... he should be screwed with imo

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I'm so glad I deleted my FB page.

Also I gotta laugh at you euros who think just making guns illegal in the US will fix things here. 20 year process? WTF? So even if that worked, which it wouldnt, we are supposed to sit and be the criminals bitches for the next 2 decades?

Pretty out of touch IMO.

Thank god for the NRA since guns dont kill people, people kill people etc

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Originally Posted by Cokehead

Also I gotta laugh at you euros who think just making guns illegal in the US will fix things here. 20 year process? WTF? So even if that worked, which it wouldnt, we are supposed to sit and be the criminals bitches for the next 2 decades?

Pretty out of touch IMO.

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There aren't enough facepalm gifs in the world to reply properly to that.

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Originally Posted by Cokehead

Also I gotta laugh at you euros who think just making guns illegal in the US will fix things here. 20 year process? WTF? So even if that worked, which it wouldnt, we are supposed to sit and be the criminals bitches for the next 2 decades?

Pretty out of touch IMO.

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Why don't they allow guns on airplanes?

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Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

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Originally Posted by SrslySirius

It's still sad. It's still a major problem of people needlessly dying. Many of these deaths are not self-inflicted, such as victims of drunk drivers.

If you want to prove me wrong, cut it out with the personal attacks and political talking points. Mourn the death of the children. Don't turn this tragedy into an episode of Crossfire.

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Tragedies are a call to action. "Don't make it political" is cop-out bullshit.

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Horseshit.

You jumping on this tragedy 5 minutes after it happened to pimp your agenda is extremely bad form.

Let me give you a clue about something...nobody gives a shit what you think about this right now. You want to debate American gun laws, fine, but can it wait until tomorrow?

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Originally Posted by Wiganer

In the past it's been suggested here by Druff and others, that non-Americans shouldn't comment on matters American.

That is arrant nonsense, especially when you see how debate between Americans so often degenerates into extremes of uber-liberal vs uber-conservative.

So, from an outsider's perspective:

As the cliche goes, the problem is not with guns, it is with the people who have and use guns, and the culture within which they reside.

Someone suggested earlier that such atrocities don't happen in places with tight gun controls and/or fewer guns.

That isn't true.

Think Anders Breivik in Norway, Dunblane or Hungerford massacres in the UK for examples of atrocities in countries with tight gun controls. That said, these instances are rarer, and the overall rate of gun violence is lower.

But, if you really want to get an insight into root causes and possible solutions to your problem with guns then try and find a country that like yours has lots of guns in private hands, but without your gun problems, and think about why the difference.

The country you should think about is Switzerland.

Switzerland COMPELS male citizens to hold guns and be trained in their use. In effect the citizenry is a militia, a step beyond your "right to bear arms".

And yet, the rate of gun crime violence in Switzerland is minute, while yours is catastrophically high.

This is simply because of the different cultures. Whilst Switzerland has had violence and tensions in its history, it has generally been unified, and peaceful, with a commitment to neutrality and relative isolationism.

America, by contrast, was formed in essence by armed invasion by people united to some degree by the British "imperialist mindset" but also with significant non-cohesive tendencies due in part to the high proportion of non-conformist religionists, Deist freethinkers etc, who had consciously sought out the New World as a refuge from the hegemony of the old.

The subsequent formative years of transition from a colony and early history as a nation involved slavery/emancipation, armed rebellion, civil war, high levels of banditry and armed gangs, and high levels of immigration from all corners of the globe.

Despite this, you have, from many perspectives built one of the greatest nations/empires in human history, but one whose celebration of individualism and acceptance of inequalities cast a shadow over your undoubted achievements.

Those forces, and others, lead America to have an innate tendency towards violence. That can change, but it will take a long time. It definitely will not be changed by putting an armed guard in every classroom, arming every citizen, or building and filling more and more prisons. You don't cure an alcoholic by handing him a case of whisky.

It could be achieved, gradually, with a steady disarmament and pacification, by a cultural shift, and one which resolves the never yet resolved contradiction between being the UNITED States of America, and being the United STATES of America.

Achieve that and you will again be revered by the rest of the world as you were when you put the first man on the moon, and seen as a true leading society, one that leads through authority, not through firepower.

p.s. Flame away, just don't shoot.

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I love what you say here, but we here do feel that we are under threat of takeover or usurping of power from within to take away what so many have died to protect. Those ghosts live on in all of us and we see the rest of the world not being able to voice their opinions without being dragged off by police. The crystal night happened because of a socialist that took away all the guns (to protect the children). People like Americans protect people like you from yourselves. Leadership devolves over time and can create situations that more resemble Hitler than Lincoln. It happened, it will happen again and when it does, you will not be calling France to save your weaponless ass.

If there is no Second Amendment, there is no First Amendment. Book it.

Edit.

Looks like it is his brother.

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Originally Posted by bukowski72

http://i.imgur.com/ojUqL.jpg

I was going to post a video of him when he was at college being asked about the Daily Show's impact on elections but it has been deleted. Seemed very mellow on the vid.

Andrew & Ryan Interview - YouTube
"An compilation interview with Quinnipiac students Andrew Vazzano and Ryan Lanza about The Daily Show and The Colbert Report."

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Then Druff that was his facebook if this picture is right.. Who the fuck was saying that shit that it wasnt him?

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Originally Posted by badguy23

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Originally Posted by bukowski72

http://i.imgur.com/ojUqL.jpg

I was going to post a video of him when he was at college being asked about the Daily Show's impact on elections but it has been deleted. Seemed very mellow on the vid.

Andrew & Ryan Interview - YouTube
"An compilation interview with Quinnipiac students Andrew Vazzano and Ryan Lanza about The Daily Show and The Colbert Report."

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Then Druff that was his facebook if this picture is right.. Who the fuck was saying that shit that it wasnt him?

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would be funny as hell if fox put up the wrong pic, lololllllllawsuit time.

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Originally Posted by badguy23

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Originally Posted by bukowski72

http://i.imgur.com/ojUqL.jpg

I was going to post a video of him when he was at college being asked about the Daily Show's impact on elections but it has been deleted. Seemed very mellow on the vid.

Andrew & Ryan Interview - YouTube
"An compilation interview with Quinnipiac students Andrew Vazzano and Ryan Lanza about The Daily Show and The Colbert Report."

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Then Druff that was his facebook if this picture is right.. Who the fuck was saying that shit that it wasnt him?

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Some douche changed his own Facebook to Ryan Lanza's name and pic and was pretending to be him denying the shooting.

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Originally Posted by Wiganer

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Originally Posted by Cokehead

Also I gotta laugh at you euros who think just making guns illegal in the US will fix things here. 20 year process? WTF? So even if that worked, which it wouldnt, we are supposed to sit and be the criminals bitches for the next 2 decades?

Pretty out of touch IMO.

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There aren't enough facepalm gifs in the world to reply properly to that.

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Why facepalm?

The guy is right.

You can't just confiscate the guns from a culture where guns have been ingrained for 500+ years.

You especially can't do it in a country where violent crime has been a persistent problem, and where tons of illegal, stolen, and unregistered guns are in the hands of criminals.

Imagine if you are a guy who wants to break into houses, but are afraid of being shot by the gun-toting homeowner. Now imagine if you could be pretty much guaranteed that with any house you break into, you'll have the gun and the homeowner won't. Are you telling me that home invasion robberies wouldn't go way up?

What about businesses? Imagine how many more businesses would get robbed if criminals knew that the owner or manager didn't have a gun hidden behind the counter or in the back room.

It would be a freaking disaster.

If you think otherwise, then you truly don't understand America.

It is a sad day when sending your kids to school isn't safe anymore.

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Originally Posted by limitles

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Originally Posted by Cokehead

Also I gotta laugh at you euros who think just making guns illegal in the US will fix things here. 20 year process? WTF? So even if that worked, which it wouldnt, we are supposed to sit and be the criminals bitches for the next 2 decades?

Pretty out of touch IMO.

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Why don't they allow guns on airplanes?

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because they're a bunch of commie fag pussies obv

Face Palm again that Ryan Lanza may not be shooter it may be Adam Lanza

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by Wiganer

There aren't enough facepalm gifs in the world to reply properly to that.

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Why facepalm?

The guy is right.

You can't just confiscate the guns from a culture where guns have been ingrained for 500+ years.

You especially can't do it in a country where violent crime has been a persistent problem, and where tons of illegal, stolen, and unregistered guns are in the hands of criminals.

Imagine if you are a guy who wants to break into houses, but are afraid of being shot by the gun-toting homeowner. Now imagine if you could be pretty much guaranteed that with any house you break into, you'll have the gun and the homeowner won't. Are you telling me that home invasion robberies wouldn't go way up?

What about businesses? Imagine how many more businesses would get robbed if criminals knew that the owner or manager didn't have a gun hidden behind the counter or in the back room.

It would be a freaking disaster.

If you think otherwise, then you truly don't understand America.

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Facepalm because Cokehead made up crap that noone had argued.

So that really was Ryan Lanza on his own FB page?

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Originally Posted by devidee

So that really was Ryan Lanza on his own FB page?

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It may be his younger brother. Police won't say. Also rumor shooter had his brothers ID on him which confused the police.

"Ryan Lanza has told friends his "developmentally disabled brother may have committed the crime".

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-w...#ixzz2F426MqLf

Robbiebensonfan is god/thread

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Originally Posted by Bootsy Collins

It is a sad day when sending your kids to school isn't safe anymore.

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School is the most dangerous environment my kid enters. It has been that way ever since he developed a medical condition that requires him being around at least one person that is informed, intelligent, and responsible enough to follow simple instructions. Teachers and their administrators don't generally meet that criteria yet we hand them the job of educating our children.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by Wiganer

There aren't enough facepalm gifs in the world to reply properly to that.

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Why facepalm?

The guy is right.

You can't just confiscate the guns from a culture where guns have been ingrained for 500+ years.

You especially can't do it in a country where violent crime has been a persistent problem, and where tons of illegal, stolen, and unregistered guns are in the hands of criminals.

Imagine if you are a guy who wants to break into houses, but are afraid of being shot by the gun-toting homeowner. Now imagine if you could be pretty much guaranteed that with any house you break into, you'll have the gun and the homeowner won't. Are you telling me that home invasion robberies wouldn't go way up?

What about businesses? Imagine how many more businesses would get robbed if criminals knew that the owner or manager didn't have a gun hidden behind the counter or in the back room.

It would be a freaking disaster.

If you think otherwise, then you truly don't understand America.

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Suggesting taking away guns, LO FUCKING L.

Imagine the headlines of "Federal Government Invalidates 2nd Amendment, All Guns Must Be Destroyed"

You thought the Tea Party was bad, imagine how big the mobs would be if this happened, and rightfully so. Lot of gun nuts are just waiting for that day...

Bottom line: The best defense is a good offense.

No offense to the people calling for extreme gun control because of issues like this, I know your heart is in the right place, but IMO you are being completely unrealistic. The banishment of guns in the USA is an impossibility. It will never happen. Never. I agree we need stricter gun control laws. A scumbag like that asshole in Colorado should have never been able to obtain the enormous amount of weapons and ammunition to pull off that shit. There is no doubt about that, and that is inexcusable and needs to change, but to call for an all out ban on guns is insane. It would never work and only bring about more chaos.

So, instead of arguing over a mans right to bare arms, I think we should focus more on the social aspect of these mass shootings. Why has it become so much more common now than it was, let's say 30 years ago? Sure you had Charles Whitman in 1966, but aside from that this was never something you would see happening. We have always had guns, yet this type of crime was never really an issue until Columbine. Why is that?

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Originally Posted by Bootsy Collins

It is a sad day when sending your kids to school isn't safe anymore.

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:this


Just had a tragedy where I live in October where a drunk or stoned driver drove his vehicle into a school & killed a kid & injured a few more. You don't consider this when you drop your kids off at school &, quite frankly, you shouldn't have to.

Found the link: http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/10/2...uring-children

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/10...s-of-injuries/

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Originally Posted by vegas1369

No offense to the people calling for extreme gun control because of issues like this, I know your heart is in the right place, but IMO you are being completely unrealistic. The banishment of guns in the USA is an impossibility. It will never happen. Never. I agree we need stricter gun control laws. A scumbag like that asshole in Colorado should have never been able to obtain the enormous amount of weapons and ammunition to pull off that shit. There is no doubt about that, and that is inexcusable and needs to change, but to call for an all out ban on guns is insane. It would never work and only bring about more chaos.

So, instead of arguing over a mans right to bare arms, I think we should focus more on the social aspect of these mass shootings. Why has it become so much more common now than it was, let's say 30 years ago? Sure you had Charles Whitman in 1966, but aside from that this was never something you would see happening. We have always had guns, yet this type of crime was never really an issue until Columbine. Why is that?

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agree it'll never happen

Whitman was due to a brain tumor that altered his personality. Unfortunately it didn't take away his shooting skills.

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Originally Posted by vegas1369

No offense to the people calling for extreme gun control because of issues like this, I know your heart is in the right place, but IMO you are being completely unrealistic. The banishment of guns in the USA is an impossibility. It will never happen. Never. I agree we need stricter gun control laws. A scumbag like that asshole in Colorado should have never been able to obtain the enormous amount of weapons and ammunition to pull off that shit. There is no doubt about that, and that is inexcusable and needs to change, but to call for an all out ban on guns is insane. It would never work and only bring about more chaos.

So, instead of arguing over a mans right to bare arms, I think we should focus more on the social aspect of these mass shootings. Why has it become so much more common now than it was, let's say 30 years ago? Sure you had Charles Whitman in 1966, but aside from that this was never something you would see happening. We have always had guns, yet this type of crime was never really an issue until Columbine. Why is that?

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Bare arms is fine. Anyone who tries to take my XXXL tshirts will have to rip them from my cold dead flab.

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Originally Posted by badguy23

Face Palm again that Ryan Lanza may not be shooter it may be Adam Lanza

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:this

newtown is the town above me. i was on the road in sandy hook when the 911 call went down. cops were coming from all over. news sources paint a picture of newtown/sandy hook as being rockwellesque, which is a little true, but it's is quite a bit bigger then my town. and quite a bit bigger then "small town america"

my wife's relatives daughter just graduated from this elementary school.

i will now be even more sad every future birthday

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Originally Posted by Wiganer

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Originally Posted by vegas1369

No offense to the people calling for extreme gun control because of issues like this, I know your heart is in the right place, but IMO you are being completely unrealistic. The banishment of guns in the USA is an impossibility. It will never happen. Never. I agree we need stricter gun control laws. A scumbag like that asshole in Colorado should have never been able to obtain the enormous amount of weapons and ammunition to pull off that shit. There is no doubt about that, and that is inexcusable and needs to change, but to call for an all out ban on guns is insane. It would never work and only bring about more chaos.

So, instead of arguing over a mans right to bare arms, I think we should focus more on the social aspect of these mass shootings. Why has it become so much more common now than it was, let's say 30 years ago? Sure you had Charles Whitman in 1966, but aside from that this was never something you would see happening. We have always had guns, yet this type of crime was never really an issue until Columbine. Why is that?

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Bare arms is fine. Anyone who tries to take my XXXL tshirts will have to rip them from my cold dead flab.

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HOF

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Originally Posted by SrslySirius

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Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

Because you should not be numb you should be outraged.

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Well, sorry. I'm also not particularly outraged about so many children dying from automobile accidents, drownings, or neoplasms. These things kill more children than firearms in the US, but if I posted a thread about it, you'd all probably shrug and say "Hm. What shame." I don't think many of you particularly care about those problems either (at least not to this extent), even though it's little children dying.

I think many of you are just being emotional because you're angry about gun control.

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Unless you have kids you really shouldnt even comment itt, because you have no idea what its like to be a parent, and how something like this affects every single parent. To compare this to random deaths is beyond idiotic, but then again you were actuaaly Micons bitch for awhile, so your not too bright.

Other than banning assault rifles gun control shouldnt even be brought up. Shit like this has nothing to do with it. Unless theres a magic way to take away every gun away in the world your wasting your time even discussing it. Its simple if someone wants to kill they will regardless of gun laws.