Exploitable Slots

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by BetCheckBet

Serious question how much do you roughly make per hour playing slots?

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Hourly rates fluctuate depending on location, plays generated, and competition for the plays. But overall its in the $140 an hour range. That includes time looking for the plays as well as seat time spinning them off.

Slot AP’s are not created equal. What one makes is a function of their knowledge and how hard they are willing to work. Most make less than me but there are a few that make it into low 7 figures per year.

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I don't make nearly this rate, but still beats most jobs for hourly. That's the problem with homesteading (staying close to home), but I don't wanna travel for this...so I "pay" the price.

My market is so-so, and I know there are better locales around the US.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by BetCheckBet

Serious question how much do you roughly make per hour playing slots?

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Hourly rates fluctuate depending on location, plays generated, and competition for the plays. But overall its in the $140 an hour range. That includes time looking for the plays as well as seat time spinning them off.

Slot AP’s are not created equal. What one makes is a function of their knowledge and how hard they are willing to work. Most make less than me but there are a few that make it into low 7 figures per year.

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So to be clear you are easily clearing six figures a year playing advantage slots?

Oh shit. I misread the thread title. I thought it said "Exploitable Sluts". Though it was another thread about Sara the Slot Lady.

Mickey has been the subject of podcasts and interviews regarding advantage play.

I came upon them by accident years ago and posted links. As is typical, there was no response by Mickey or PFA

Advantage play was a world I was curious about as well as those who occupied that space. I suspect the Blackjack Ball triggered my hunt

To my knowledge, he is the only community member ever interviewed for his wagering.

Mickey’s and my world do not intersect but I give him props

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Originally Posted by Sanlmar

Mickey has been the subject of podcasts and interviews regarding advantage play.

I came upon them by accident years ago and posted links. As is typical, there was no response by Mickey or PFA

Advantage play was a world I was curious about as well as those who occupied that space. I suspect the Blackjack Ball triggered my hunt

To my knowledge, he is the only community member ever interviewed for his wagering.

Mickey’s and my world do not intersect but I give him props

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He pushes those slot buttons better than anyone, that is a fact.

https://x.com/lasvegaslocally/status...NTeL-B7XUwtJQg

How do career gamblers liked Druff or Crimm accrue any social security benefits. SS payments keep cropping up in posts - I’m tuning in late admittedly.

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Originally Posted by BetCheckBet

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Hourly rates fluctuate depending on location, plays generated, and competition for the plays. But overall its in the $140 an hour range. That includes time looking for the plays as well as seat time spinning them off.

Slot AP’s are not created equal. What one makes is a function of their knowledge and how hard they are willing to work. Most make less than me but there are a few that make it into low 7 figures per year.

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So to be clear you are easily clearing six figures a year playing advantage slots?

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I make it into low six figures not playing more than a couple of hours a day. Which is all I care to do these days.

If I were willing to go 10 to 12 hours per day I would do somewhere between 250K and 300K this year (but I'm not really capable of that anymore). That's what current conditions are for me.

Things can change for either the good or the bad. There is no guarantee that things will be good in the future. A lot of slot AP's washed out in the 2000's due to a lack of exploitable machines. But by 2015 the exploitables were coming hot and heavy. Numerous new exploitable games are being introduced as we speak. My take is the IGT/Spielo merger led to the renaissance.

Like Kessler, Bill Krakomberger likes to tweet about his advantage slot exploits. Here, he hits a hand pay at the airport on an exploitable called Ultimate Fire Link:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1810681116703203519

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Like Kessler, Bill Krakomberger likes to tweet about his advantage slot exploits. Here, he hits a hand pay at the airport on an exploitable called Ultimate Fire Link:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1810681116703203519

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Embedded Tweet

:to

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Originally Posted by Sanlmar

How do career gamblers liked Druff or Crimm accrue any social security benefits. SS payments keep cropping up in posts - I’m tuning in late admittedly.

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How does a drywall contractor accrue SS benefits? Gamblers are subject to taxes just like everyone else. Billy Baxter is famous in poker circles. He was Stu Unger's backer. His case on gambling and taxes set a precedent in 1986.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baxter_v._United_States

However, I dispute that payroll deductions for SS are taxes. It's a payment into a retirement system in which you will reap future benefits.

Here is Krakomberger at Ellis Island featuring an exploitable called Raise the Sails:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1788327762497085946

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanlmar

Mickey has been the subject of podcasts and interviews regarding advantage play.

I came upon them by accident years ago and posted links. As is typical, there was no response by Mickey or PFA

Advantage play was a world I was curious about as well as those who occupied that space. I suspect the Blackjack Ball triggered my hunt

To my knowledge, he is the only community member ever interviewed for his wagering.

Mickey’s and my world do not intersect but I give him props

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I've done 4 Gambling With An Edge interviews and one on Risk of Ruin. I influenced Bob Dancer into becoming an advantage slot player. And also Richard Munchkin's son. Dancer now writes about advantage slots in some of his blogs on Las Vegas Adviser. Michael Shackleford of Wizard of Odds is also now writing about advantage slots.

Rich Little Piggies

This is a pretty simple play. All you have to do is pay attention to the blue pig and how many free games are banked. It starts at 9 games and moves upwards as you make spins. I put the breakeven number at 17 but I like a win factor so I play at 20 free games or higher.

Once you start the play you continue until one of four things happen:

1. You trigger the blue pig alone
2. You trigger the blue pig and yellow pig
3. You trigger the blue pig and red pig.
4. You trigger all three pigs.

So you are going to play until that blue pig triggers and resets. The best scenario is you triggger all 3 pigs. Second best is trigerring bluepig/yellowpig.

The trigger you don't want to see is triggering the blue pig alone. It pays money but not much. But 75% of the time you will trigger that blue pig alone. On those plays you will win a little or lose a little. The other 25% of the time you will trigger either bluepig/yellowpig or all three pigs. These are the payday triggers.

In the video below our hero jumps on a Piggie at 21. It runs him up to 30 and cost him $2700 but he racked up $4600 in the bonus round.

The bluepig/yellowpig triggers at 16:01.

https://youtu.be/p0aaoshqP14

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by BetCheckBet

So to be clear you are easily clearing six figures a year playing advantage slots?

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I make it into low six figures not playing more than a couple of hours a day. Which is all I care to do these days.

If I were willing to go 10 to 12 hours per day I would do somewhere between 250K and 300K this year (but I'm not really capable of that anymore). That's what current conditions are for me.

Things can change for either the good or the bad. There is no guarantee that things will be good in the future. A lot of slot AP's washed out in the 2000's due to a lack of exploitable machines. But by 2015 the exploitables were coming hot and heavy. Numerous new exploitable games are being introduced as we speak. My take is the IGT/Spielo merger led to the renaissance.

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Curious what buy in level for slots you are playing (1 dollar vs 50 dollar slots)and how big of a bankroll you need for this?

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Originally Posted by Cerveza Fria

Oh shit. I misread the thread title. I thought it said "Exploitable Sluts". Though it was another thread about Sara the Slot Lady.

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"There will be so many exploitable sluts you will not know to do with yourselves." Beavis and Butthead Do America.

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Originally Posted by Sanlmar

How do career gamblers liked Druff or Crimm accrue any social security benefits. SS payments keep cropping up in posts - I’m tuning in late admittedly.

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First, Crimm is not affected. He has no income other than Social Security. There are two ways. One, you can report it as gambling income, but you have to itemize your deductions to claim gambling losses. The other way is to file a Schedule C as a “professional gambler”. The first way is not subject to SS taxes. The second is, and you have to pay 12.4% up to $168,600. You have to “run the numbers” to see which is more advantageous. If you can claim legit expenses on your Schedule C, you can get that number down.

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Originally Posted by BetCheckBet

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I make it into low six figures not playing more than a couple of hours a day. Which is all I care to do these days.

If I were willing to go 10 to 12 hours per day I would do somewhere between 250K and 300K this year (but I'm not really capable of that anymore). That's what current conditions are for me.

Things can change for either the good or the bad. There is no guarantee that things will be good in the future. A lot of slot AP's washed out in the 2000's due to a lack of exploitable machines. But by 2015 the exploitables were coming hot and heavy. Numerous new exploitable games are being introduced as we speak. My take is the IGT/Spielo merger led to the renaissance.

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Curious what buy in level for slots you are playing (1 dollar vs 50 dollar slots)and how big of a bankroll you need for this?

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Most of the plays in the casinos I haunt are $10 bets and lower.

500 units is generally enough to keep you out of trouble. I rarely go into a casino with more than 10K. However, some plays require much more. Like that $30 Piggie I just posted. Those are rare plays but you need about 15K (500 units)at the machine to be safe. But with a $3 Piggie you would need only $1500.

Slot AP is low risk high reward. I work the biggest edges in the business with no downside. Losing days are rare.

WOLF RUN ECLIPSE

Here's Vegas Matt again. You can see how the game plays in this video. The reason Matt is playing here is that 22 in the Minor meter. To low for me but Matt plays marginal:

https://youtu.be/QeSsjFgvfj8

For some games I have to build a model by using stats I collect off the game. Here's the Wolf Run Eclipse stats:

Main game 1979 spins, 54.8% return. Yeah, needs to be bigger.

20,000 main game spins:

Mini, 85, avg 235 spins, minor 31, avg 645, major 7, avg 2857

Overall avg is 163 spins to hit something

Free games value

Mini 423 spins 1360 units returned, avg 3.21 units per free

Minor 156 spins 962 units returned, avg. 6.17 units per free spin

Major 82 spins 967 units returned,avg 11.8 units per free spin
Meter movement. This is how often free games symbol landed on 5th reel per 5837 spins.

Mini 127 avg 46 spins per hit

Minor 66 avg 88

Major 14 avg 417

Meter contributions. This is the value of a free spin divided by the frequency of the symbol landing on the 5th reel:

Mini 3.21/46 = 7%
Minor 6.17/88 = 7.01%

Major 14/417 = 3.36%

Value of a banked free spin per the frequency of catching it:

Mini 3.21/235 = 1.366%

Minor 6.17/645 = .955%
Major 11.8/2857= .413%

Value of 5 free games ar reset

Mini 6.88%

Minor 4.78%

Major 2.06%
Totals

Main Game 54.8%

5 mini free games 6.8%

Mini meter 7%

5 Minor free games 4.775%

Minor meter 7%

5 Major free games 2.06%

Major meter 3.36%

So how do we put a play together. The important stats:

Main game payback 54.8%.
Value of a Mini Free Game 1.3666%
Value of Minor Free Game .955%
Value of Major Free Game .413%
Mini Meter 7%
Minor Meter 7%
Major Meter 3.36%

The Mega and the Grand are long shot hits not calculated into the play. If you hit it, fine, it's all gravy but I don't factor these kinds of long shots into plays.

So let's take the numbers in Vegas Matt's video:

Major 7
Minor 22
Mini 12

Base game 54.8%
Major 7 X .413 = 2.891%
Minor 22 X .955 = 21.01
Mini 12 X .1366 = 16.392%

Totals to 95.093


The only meter I would throw in is the Mini at 7%. The problem with the higher meters is you don't have much equity. Take the Major for example. You will hit it once for every 12 times you hit the Mini. So 11 times out of 12 the money you put in the Major meter goes for naught.

You'll hit the Minor about once per 3 times you hit the mini. So 2 times out of 3 the money you put in that meter goes for naught.

So with a 7% meter thrown in it would be at 102%. Not my cup of tea. I like at least a 10% edge so would wait for higher numbers

TOTAL 85.83%

numbers change as more spins are added. It’s not perfect but it’s the guide I use.

So to calculate a play you just need these numbers:

Main game 55%
Mini Meter 7%
That's 62%

Now add 1.366% for every game banked into the Mini Meter

Then add .95% for every game banked into the Minor Meter.

The add .41% for every game banked into the Major Meter.

I personally like 110% or higher but everyone makes their own decisions.