NWP founding members are going down one by one. First Neverwin, then Micon -- Druff, you are next.
NWP founding members are going down one by one. First Neverwin, then Micon -- Druff, you are next.
I can guarantee if I was in micon shoes and had millions like some of you think he does, I would stay in the U.S and fight this case, I only way I would run is if they had me on tax evasion, The government is VERY GOOD at tax evasion cases, Just look at their history, Some of the smartest gangsters,crooks, etc have been imprisoned for many years over tax evasion, Some who had their hands in many murders and others major crimes but in the end tax evasion is what hung their ass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
Both our scenarios are not even applicable anyway as he has decided not only flee the country but continue with a bitcoin poker site. He has no choice now but to stay outside the US. Also by doing this, I think any chance of charges being dropped, or some kind of settlement reached , goes out the window.
A little basic math can figure some of this out.
Avg Pot x .05 x # of hands per hour x # of tables x 24 x 365
So if average pot is 7.50, 10 tables on average, 80 hands per hour we are looking at 2.6 million from cash games in a year.
Now maybe we can tweak from my numbers above to ball park actual revenue.
Cliffs for those of us just seeing this thread?
Micon is GOD/threadQuote:
Originally Posted by LLL
NGC raided Beaker's house on 2/11. They let him go without pressing charges, but took all his computer stuff (that is likely filled with tons of incriminating evidence, which should scare the shit out of the other owners of the site; stay tuned for more half naked Brandon photos, obv).
Beaker claims he had trip to Antigua planned already, so he flew there with his soon to be ex-wife and daugther to likely set up shop for another Failsite/Illegal gambling operation (while balling it up on freerolls and playing with his drone during coffee breaks), where he will be worshiped by the local tribal chieftains and Euros. Poker News sites yawned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
https://davidkanigan.files.wordpress...if?w=500&h=282
Went to YouTube and this is what was recommend to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTwVMmS9OEY
Come on dude. He was running a bitcoin website not raping and murdering. He would've gotten bail and it likely wouldn't have been much. Dude overreacted when he left town. I'm not even sure why everyone is believing his story that 12 dudes with guns basically broke down his doors. There was probably two dudes. No guns. There for a couple of computers. The fuckers can't take or look for anything that wasn't on the search warrant so I don't even believe his camera was taken. There would be no reason to even have anything besides computers on an initial warrant. Dude's a clown embellishing everything seeking pity and for others to invest in his new fail site so he can steal their money now that he is out of the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoneyIf he stayed in the US and was then charged , he could be insta shipped to jail. I dont even know if they would grant bail, and if they did, it could be a shitload. As it is now, if he gets charged he has options. They are shitty options but options that could potentially allow him to remain free. Also, him being in another country could give him leverage to a certain extent. It may be easier to settle with the government if they know in order to prosecute you they need to chase you around the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
Also, a lot of this "fighting the case" mentality is based on the idea that no laws were broken. it is also based on the idea he has the money to even bankroll a case like this. I actually think this is an easy case for the government to win, and fighting the government in court, would not only cost you a ton of money but also your freedom when it was over.
I can't understand how reputable posters like China are hanging from his every word like a little puppy dog wanting a cookie.
If the feds come after you then are pretty much done regardless of what they charge you with. Feds have like a 90%+ win rate. That's why you can't compare OJ with Aaron Hernandez. OJ was a state case and Hernandez is federally. Hernandez is done.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
Exactly!! Something just dawned on me....what if he was just making all this shit up? Or a whole lot of it? I mean who can verify that any of this actually happened except Micon, who would seemingly have a LOT to gain by scaring the shit out of the other owners and making them bail? Probably not likely, but I wouldn't put anything past Micon when it comes to money.Quote:
Originally Posted by PoohCome on dude. He was running a bitcoin website not raping and murdering. He would've gotten bail and it likely wouldn't have been much. Dude overreacted when he left town. I'm not even sure why everyone is believing his story that 12 dudes with guns basically broke down his doors. There was probably two dudes. No guns. There for a couple of computers. The fuckers can't take or look for anything that wasn't on the search warrant so I don't even believe his camera was taken. There would be no reason to even have anything besides computers on an initial warrant. Dude's a clown embellishing everything seeking pity and for others to invest in his new fail site so he can steal their money now that he is out of the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoney
I can't understand how reputable posters like China are hanging from his every word like a little puppy dog wanting a cookie.
Regarding his net worth. I'd expect he would be worth a few hundred k minimally. I remember in one of his videos he flashed some cash and it was significant probably in excess of 15k. Not sure what he's worth now since he basically gave up all his material possessions when he booked outta here.
Not a million though. Millionaires wouldn't be panicking trying to set up shop asap. Not saying you can retire on a million but he would lay low for a good month to years if he had any brain at all with that kind of money. 2-3 million he can easily retire on that in a third world shit hole like that never to be heard from again.
I wish him the best. Well not really.
According to Micon:Quote:
Originally Posted by LLL
Nevada Gaming Commission
many guys with guns
broke down door
search warrant
handcuffed Micon
next 8 hours they took his computers and camera
something happened at the Seals server in Romania, not clear what
remainder of Seal with Clubs team quit
Bitcoins are safe
he will start SwCPoker.eu soon
they monitored Micon's social media feed
not charged with any crime
was already planning a family trip to Antigua
He was running an illegal poker site in NEVADA! Forget the bitcoin part for a minute, people go to prison all the time for illegal sportsbooks/ poker rooms in the United States. How is this not at the very least just as bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by PoohCome on dude. He was running a bitcoin website not raping and murdering. He would've gotten bail and it likely wouldn't have been much. Dude overreacted when he left town. I'm not even sure why everyone is believing his story that 12 dudes with guns basically broke down his doors. There was probably two dudes. No guns. There for a couple of computers. The fuckers can't take or look for anything that wasn't on the search warrant so I don't even believe his camera was taken. There would be no reason to even have anything besides computers on an initial warrant. Dude's a clown embellishing everything seeking pity and for others to invest in his new fail site so he can steal their money now that he is out of the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoney
I can't understand how reputable posters like China are hanging from his every word like a little puppy dog wanting a cookie.
I also think you under estimate the hatred the government has for alternative "currencies" they cant control and cant tax. Mix that in with illegal gambling in NEVADA of all places, using US Banks to store funds and it is a mess.
The CalvinAyre article was put back up or updated,etc.. I didn't see it the first time but no real info we haven't heard about.
http://calvinayre.com/2015/02/22/bus...da-regulators/
Best part of the article was this pic obv.
http://calvinayre.com/wp-content/upl...se-raided1.jpg
Horrible photoshop job but I'll give credit to the idea.
How would this lawyer explain all the other bitcoin-related cases the US has litigated (and won), as well as the fact that the US Govt. has set up auctions to sell off bitcoins their own selves?Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
HArd to argue its worthless to the government when the government itself sells off what it confiscates for cash.
As well as a hundred other obvious arguments, tha'ts just the simplest, most direct.
I hear everybody talking about the stakes Micon is playing and I think he's just a big a fuckup as anyone else, but if you were him 3-5 days out of the US would you be putting money on pokerstars and 'hoping' it doesn't gert seized. It's not like micon isn't still an american. He's just not playing on american soil, but in order to do that I believe you need an address and bills in Antigua, no?
So im just saying as of right now the stakes hes playing are irrelevant. Give it a month and if hes playing them hes broke
They were going to prosecute him. No way they do all that take a couple of computers and that is the end of it. Aftermath is going to be interesting. Lets say he is charged in abstentia, is that going to be made public what specifically the charges were? I don't think he overreacted, he isn't the type of guy that would do well in jail. No way he would even be able to do a year. If he had outs he would take them before doing jail time. I wonder if partners he had will be indicted.
Also I think it's pretty clear the feds didn't get a single bitcoin yet, or micon would be bitching about that first, and not some electronics that got lol stolen.
Like, stolen? Really dude? You are now part of a criminal case. That shit is called evidence. Not stolen merch.
But we know FOR DAMN SURE if they took a penny of BTC from micon, it would be screaming and shouting about all of that
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoneyQuote:
Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler
I dont get this mentality. Why would you wait to be charged and then decide to leave? If you get raided like he did, they think they have a strong case against you. If you wait, you may not even get that option to leave as they could simply do round 2 of swat team to your house, deny bail, etc. In my opinion, it was incompetence on the part of Nevada gaming that even gave him the chance to leave.
Right now he hasnt been charged or asked to stay in the state. He has done nothing wrong as of right now. All that living somewhere else does for him right now is give him options if he gets charged. If he doesnt get charged, then he can just return back to the states. If he does get charged, he can come back to the states to face the music or stay put and take his chances.
The only thing that staying in the states does is give him fewer options.
Stop it, after the first raid if he didn't run and they did another and arrest him, you could get a 7$ lawyer to explain he's not a flight risk, as you've rammed his house and he hasn't split. Therefor he's not going to run on you. Boom, bail not so big of a problem. This isn't a murder case or a case where the dude has 400mm of btc
Alternate Ending
this whole thing is a ruse, disguised to throw everyone off the trail. Micon tells everyone to wipe their drives, erase their twitters, and those people ride off into the sunset. Micon posts from Antigua, where he DID plan for ahead of time, and is selling his US home, but will relocated shortly to somewhere entirely different that people dont know about. He saved up 1.4 million dollars, in bitcoins, hidden on a jumpdrive, and swcpoker will never actually start up.
If he owns his own home or has a condo will forfeit that as well as any other property or bank accounts. Anything he had in bitcoin wallets is safe obv.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
I wonder who he had purchase his property?
Mrs Micon?
I remember seeing some real estate listing 6 months back that eluded to Micon for some 800K house in Vegas, under a different name.
doesn't that mean that micon had less than 50%?Quote:
SealsWithClubs Chairman, Bryan Micon, would like to carry forward the business with his own team (currently settling in Antigua) but the majority ownership cannot guarantee the future security, solvency, and integrity of that operation because there will be no administrative oversight carried over from SealsWithClubs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUSTIFIEDhomicideQuote:
Originally Posted by cmoney
Stop it, after the first raid if he didn't run and they did another and arrest him, you could get a 7$ lawyer to explain he's not a flight risk, as you've rammed his house and he hasn't split. Therefor he's not going to run on you. Boom, bail not so big of a problem. This isn't a murder case or a case where the dude has 400mm of btc
You are still missing the point . Even under the best scenario you have laid out, he almost certainly has to surrender his passport once charged even if bail is granted. By going to Antigua, he still has all options he would have if he stayed in the states plus all the ones he has from not staying in the US. Why the hell would anyone risk that?
I think this guys on reddit says it well.
No, once the goon squad kicks in your door, expect charges to be forthcoming. In cases of major crimes or highly dangerous individuals, they will usually cobble up a minor charge to detain the person until they can get a hearing for the more substantive charge.. There have been cases where people went YEARS between raid and indictment. Hell, poor Weev is currently exiled because another indictment may come down on him at any time (watch the video where he rides in the car after just getting out of jail, his attorney strongly indicates the FBI is trying to make another a case against him. Strong odds are, he will stay out until various SOL's expire, or they indict him and he just never comes back)
The long and short of it is, if the goon squad shows up, you lose. If they don't have anything 'obvious' to charge you with, they start subpoenaing bank records, etc and get you other ways (ie, taxes, various 'conspiracy to' charges) If you can leave, do it while you can because your window to do so is short. The first thing the Pretrial Services man does it take your passport.
I don't like Micon's type, but he was smart to get out. This really should be a wake-up call to the deluded idealists, though, who can quote Rothbard until you turn blue in the face. The real world consequence for being 'out in the open' with your deep involvement in a technology like this is stupid, considering the level of power possessed by the people who hate it. Everything in life is all fun and games until warrants are served. Then, idealism looks awfully cheap next to losing your family.
According to Micon:Quote:
Originally Posted by LLL
Nevada Gaming Commission
guys with guns
search warrant
handcuffed Micon in his underwear
next 8 hours they took his computers and camera
something happened at the Seals server in Romania, not clear what
remainder of Seal with Clubs team quit
Bitcoins are safe
he will start SwCPoker.eu soon
they monitored Micon's social media feed
not charged with any crime (yet)
was already planning a family trip to Antigua, is probably stuck there
Were the other owners US based? If they were, they will hang micon out to dry when the irs and doj come knocking. They also say he only gets email addresses and Krill amounts which makes it sound like they are keeping the dead account btc for themselves?
I assume he has enough to buy himself citizenship and gaming license but needs swc to rebuild his roll
I'm probably way off, he probably has no intent to base swc in Antigua and just run it the same as now
How am i hanging from what micon says? Ive just weighed my opinion on some thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by PoohCome on dude. He was running a bitcoin website not raping and murdering. He would've gotten bail and it likely wouldn't have been much. Dude overreacted when he left town. I'm not even sure why everyone is believing his story that 12 dudes with guns basically broke down his doors. There was probably two dudes. No guns. There for a couple of computers. The fuckers can't take or look for anything that wasn't on the search warrant so I don't even believe his camera was taken. There would be no reason to even have anything besides computers on an initial warrant. Dude's a clown embellishing everything seeking pity and for others to invest in his new fail site so he can steal their money now that he is out of the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoney
I can't understand how reputable posters like China are hanging from his every word like a little puppy dog wanting a cookie.
Maybe he can sneak back in and drive a cab for awhile and lay low
Quote:
Originally Posted by abrown83
I think that number is super high for a couple of reasons; Seals did not average 10 tables to my knowledge. I thought the numbers we had quoted earlier were "120 people logged in", not playing. Plus thats at peak. So if we use the mean and adjust for unraked pots, I think we are looking at 5 tables average (and thats probably high), 50 raked hands an hour per, lets say average rake .20 per drop... now we have a much more realistic sounding $438,000 a year.
Rake per table per hour:
50 * .20 = $10
5 tables =
$50 per hour
24 hours a day =
$1200 a day
Apologies in advance if I'm fucking up anything obvious, I just woke up.
Speaking of which, the part that I find most telling of this whole story right now is Micon saying he left the country to spare his 2 year old the experience of living in a police state, and not to duck the absolutely happening penalty phase of the investigation.
Someone explain something to me, on that front; can the US freeze Antiguan bank accounts? I get there is no extradition treaty, but cant they just reach out and touch Micon on the bank front?
Because I dont quite understand how they are going to survive without bank accounts. No one goes far without bank accounts. Least of all when you cant caper down to the local coffee shop or sportsbook and sell a dozen bitcoins to some mope for cash to cover the months rent.
I think the most likely resolution here is that Micon will try to fight the charges from Antigua. And either he will go totally 100% flat broke in the process and fail, or he will go totally 100% flat broke in the process and at least be able to step foot in the US again legally. Every other conceivable permutation of his future involves the type of trouble none of us would laugh about.
I'm sure this is all just a big misunderstanding.
Antigua does have an extradition treaty with the US so is micon gold since the beef is with Nevada?
Disregard that, I suck cocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
I wonder how much cash he brought with him on the international flight and how much Martha took and more importantly if any was with the child. He's putting his family at a huge risk. I am more interested in hearing from them than micon at this point
That's all for today
out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texter
The only reason Antigua makes any sense is if he actually gets a license. In fact, if he doesnt get a license, I would think he would just get ratted out by other operators that do have licenses. Kind of similar situation to what just happened..
Does anyone actually know of any US citizens that are in Antigua who own online casinos? All of the guys on the DOJs hit list in Antigua are not Americans, for example Calvin Ayre. This might be uncharted territory.
Tine already capped it on a hacker website with one of his dupes in 1997.Quote:
DRK Star: I see a screen capture and quotes in your future
http://bash.org/?5775
there is soooooo much content on bash.org from me during my irc days.
omg wow wait, never mind, it looks like they must have lost an old database... they barely have 21k quotes now.