Debacle Ordering From All American Dave's During The Wsop

[gut]

For those of you unaware, it is emphasized at ALL casinos and ALL poker rooms never to disrupt a hand in progress.

I'm sure it might be murky waters here with the whole "exclusive WSOP deal" Daves has with the Rio, but it is still an outside company, they are not Rio employees. They can give as much fucks about poker etiquette as a Dominos delivery driver would.

[chinamaniac]

Also, I am not sure these girls are working for tips (although they accept them). I used Daves service one summer and can't remember if I tipped or not but I do remember them flying by tables just dropping off food for people and moving on and not even making eye contact with the people they dropped off for.

She may have been pissed because she had to run back and get change and not over the tip amount?

Either way it does not excuse her berating and tone as this is a sure fire way to lose customers.

[shortbuspoker]

bring a $50 band of ones and pay the bitches in singles like a stripper

[Shizzmoney]

Also, I am not sure these girls are working for tips (although they accept them). I used Daves service one summer and can't remember if I tipped or not but I do remember them flying by tables just dropping off food for people and moving on and not even making eye contact with the people they dropped off for. .

Most of the time, those people are on the meal plan. I've seen that before for Ryan Riess and Jason Mercier, who are mostly likely on the meal plan as they always rave about the food on their twitter feeds.

I will say, if the girl ever made me stop in the middle of the hand, I'd make her wait and pull one of these:

[Drexel]

Thanks to all who took the time to read my post and comment.

I had a brief correspondence with Dave earlier this morning. I didn't want to post it until he gave me his permission to do so.



















Credit should of course be given where credit is deserved. Dave responded promptly to me, addressed the issues and went as far as apologizing and rectifying the change issue in the future.


I will be honest with all of you. I will never order food to my table again. I will see if Dave at some point in the future is at the rio when I am there, to speak in person. Because of his above dialogue with me, I see no reason why not to patronize him possibly in the future. He handled a bad situation professionally and I have no reason to think the change he states he'll implement will not occur ASAP.

[Drexel]

Given the circumstances, the environment, the service at bar, I would be tipping the full $5 here by default.

I concede, easily, that perhaps youre simply more responsible with money than me, but a $5 head shot for getting food delivered into the Rio just feels market value to me. If I had $3 in singles, I could roll with a $3 tip if the universe wasnt sucking my dick that day and I was feeling vulnerable but erring on the side of generosity would have made the girls feel good and you feel good for making the girls feel good in this spot. People have shitty lives these days. I dont. So the extra $2 is pretty easy to cough up is how I feel.

Also $25 for a dece healthy meal under these circumstances is super bargain time. Consider sneaking a good pair of chopsticks in with you if youre making a ritual of this (I would (chopsticks and ritual)).

Good post.

The percent any individual tips, whether it be at a restaurant, a casino or for food delivery is an individual's choice. I always use the 20% benchmark when dining out, assuming the service was good. I will tip 25% if the service is extraordinary and or the server goes the extra mile.

I don't punish servers for kitchen mistakes as long as they communicate to me what ever issues occur. I also don't "make servers run around constantly" throughout the meal.

As I posted, to me $3 in my opinion is a more than fair amount for a usually 30 second transaction, in which at most 5 minutes maximum was required of there time to drop off one bag among many.

As another poster mentioned, it's highly fathomable that these young ladies make $50 if not more per hour!

A first year teacher in Nevada (college graduate of course) make a little over $20,000 a year! It's little wonder Nevada has a shortfall in teachers. How could anyone live of that?

I only make that point because it's evident how flawed our society has become regarding tipping. Of course an extra $2 won't hurt me. But as I have gotten older, I tend to evaluate things different and make financial decisions differently than when I was much younger.

[Brittney Griner's Clit]

I love a guy that can undertip a hot chick. That takes balls that few have. It's super funny that these chicks are gonna have to walk around with plastic sacks filled with ones because of Drexel from now on. Fuckin priceless.

I do have to admit that when you got to the part of the story where she approached you while you had cards in front of you that I thought you were trolling. I watched girl after girl wait patiently until there were no cards in front of the player before engaging him. This had to be a rogue employee that had dealt with one too many Euro's that day.

What did this girl look like? Was she blonde? Did Dave fire her after this? I literally can't stop laughing that these chicks are gonna be strapped up with Greg Raymer fanny packs from now on because of you.

Fuck those entitled bitches and guys that ruin it for everyone else for thinking 5 dollars is the min tip.

[LarryLaffer]

A first year teacher in Nevada (college graduate of course) make a little over $20,000 a year! It's little wonder Nevada has a shortfall in teachers. How could anyone live of that?

I only make that point because it's evident how flawed our society has become regarding tipping. Of course an extra $2 won't hurt me. But as I have gotten older, I tend to evaluate things different and make financial decisions differently than when I was much younger.

no this is not evidence of how flawed our society is regarding tipping. Teachers (in any state, who work for public schools) are paid through tax dollars. Those teachers are being paid so little, because politicians spend your tax dollars unwisely. that's the flaw in our society.


the people in the service industry work hard. you should tip accordingly.


(extremely relevant video that i can't believe hasn't been posted yet, and this thread almost reminds me of it)

[Dan Druff]

The problem with our tipping culture exists on a few levels:

1) People are trained in American society to believe that higher tips = better person. So if you tip well, it means you care about low-paid service workers, and therefore you should feel good about yourself. If you tip stingily, then you are a money-grubbing asshole who saves a few dollars and screws a hardworking, low-wage employee.

2) When going out to a nice meal, or gambling for relatively big money, it seems trivial to give a few extra dollars. If you're in a $1500 buyin event (or possibly way more), what is the difference between $3 and $5? If you even spend time thinking about that, you're a cheap and insensitive asshole.

3) We have somehow learned to accept the fact that, if we anger a service employee, they have a right to punish us, such as spit in our food.

-----------

However, none of the above passes the sanity check.

Here is the reality:

1) While there are a few exceptions (such as low-end diner waitresses), most tipped service employees make good money. Some, in fact, make over $100k per year. Many of these workers make more than teachers, engineers, mechanics, and other highly skilled professions requiring years of training and/or expensive schooling. Therefore, the "I need to tip them well, this is how they survive" argument fails. It definitely fails in this case, where these girls are getting $5 per bag dropped off, and are dropping off as many as 6 at a time!

2) The amount you are paying to enter the event is irrelevant. This type of thinking is what makes so many gamblers go broke. "I just lost/won $4000 gambling, so who cares about $15?" The problem is that all of this adds up, and it eventually bleeds into your entire attitude towards money. It is your business how you want to spend your own money. Even if you want to spend $10,000 entering an event, that does not mean that you need to overtip food runners bringing you food while you're playing. By that logic, you should also pay twice as much as the non-gamblers for your meal during the dinner break! Wasting money is wasting money, regardless of the way you spent before.

3) The 20% tip is a relatively new thing at restaurants. It has progressed from 10% to 15% to 18% to 20% over the last few decades. Now, that's fine, because servers at restaurants are very interactive and spend a few hours on you (albeit not constant, but they are coming by your table to do things several times in that period). Someone dropping off food is not the same thing! This is especially true if the person dropping off the food is just walking a short distance, as opposed to something like a food delivery guy who has to drive your order to your house AND pay for his car expenses incurred when doing so. Therefore, a 20% tip for these food runners is WAY TOO HIGH.

4) If you still feel guilty about tipping $3 instead of $5 to these food runner girls, take the other $2 and hand it to a person cleaning the bathroom or doing some other unpleasant job for ACTUAL minimum wage (with no tips!) They will need it and appreciate it much more, and there you will ACTUALLY BE HELPING a poor person, rather than helping some stuck-up twentysomething buy a designer purse.

If there's any demographic in our society that does NOT need charity, it's a young hot chick. Hot chicks under 30 pretty much get the world handed to them -- or at least as long as they remain young and hot. As I said, it's much better to tip the 55-year-old Mexican bathroom cleaner than the 23-year-old All American Dave's food runner who might clear $100/hr in tips.

Or... to put it simply, ask yourself, "Why am I really tipping this much?"

[LarryLaffer]

The problem with our tipping culture exists on a few levels:

1) People are trained in American society to believe that higher tips = better person. So if you tip well, it means you care about low-paid service workers, and therefore you should feel good about yourself. If you tip stingily, then you are a money-grubbing asshole who saves a few dollars and screws a hardworking, low-wage employee.

2) When going out to a nice meal, or gambling for relatively big money, it seems trivial to give a few extra dollars. If you're in a $1500 buyin event (or possibly way more), what is the difference between $3 and $5? If you even spend time thinking about that, you're a cheap and insensitive asshole.

3) We have somehow learned to accept the fact that, if we anger a service employee, they have a right to punish us, such as spit in our food.

-----------

However, none of the above passes the sanity check.

Here is the reality:

1) While there are a few exceptions (such as low-end diner waitresses), most tipped service employees make good money. Some, in fact, make over $100k per year. Many of these workers make more than teachers, engineers, mechanics, and other highly skilled professions requiring years of training and/or expensive schooling. Therefore, the "I need to tip them well, this is how they survive" argument fails. It definitely fails in this case, where these girls are getting $5 per bag dropped off, and are dropping off as many as 6 at a time!

2) The amount you are paying to enter the event is irrelevant. This type of thinking is what makes so many gamblers go broke. "I just lost/won $4000 gambling, so who cares about $15?" The problem is that all of this adds up, and it eventually bleeds into your entire attitude towards money. It is your business how you want to spend your own money. Even if you want to spend $10,000 entering an event, that does not mean that you need to overtip food runners bringing you food while you're playing. By that logic, you should also pay twice as much as the non-gamblers for your meal during the dinner break! Wasting money is wasting money, regardless of the way you spent before.

3) The 20% tip is a relatively new thing at restaurants. It has progressed from 10% to 15% to 18% to 20% over the last few decades. Now, that's fine, because servers at restaurants are very interactive and spend a few hours on you (albeit not constant, but they are coming by your table to do things several times in that period). Someone dropping off food is not the same thing! This is especially true if the person dropping off the food is just walking a short distance, as opposed to something like a food delivery guy who has to drive your order to your house AND pay for his car expenses incurred when doing so. Therefore, a 20% tip for these food runners is WAY TOO HIGH.

4) If you still feel guilty about tipping $3 instead of $5 to these food runner girls, take the other $2 and hand it to a person cleaning the bathroom or doing some other unpleasant job for ACTUAL minimum wage (with no tips!) They will need it and appreciate it much more, and there you will ACTUALLY BE HELPING a poor person, rather than helping some stuck-up twentysomething buy a designer purse.

If there's any demographic in our society that does NOT need charity, it's a young hot chick. Hot chicks under 30 pretty much get the world handed to them -- or at least as long as they remain young and hot. As I said, it's much better to tip the 55-year-old Mexican bathroom cleaner than the 23-year-old All American Dave's food runner who might clear $100/hr in tips.

Or... to put it simply, ask yourself, "Why am I really tipping this much?"

1: stop bringing up teachers, as i've already pointed out that a teachers wage is based on tax revenue, and our politicians would rather spend money on war and not education. So the teacher thing, is a moot fucking point. Mechanics and engineers, i'll agree with. Well, not engineers, because I don't know a single fucking engineer (and i see a lot of them at my job as i am constantly dropping off drawings to clients who are....engineers!) who isn't making decent money at his job. And further more, an engineer is lucky to have his job, in fact, anyone is lucky to have their job in the field they went to college for these days. I'm 30, i know plenty of people who work shit jobs because they couldn't find a job in their field because GUESS WHAT! in 2008, when my high school class (04) was graduating college, the economy collapsed and we were left with shit. But i'm willing to agree with you on the mechanic bit. I believe my mechanic is worth way more than the xamount an hour i pay for service.

2. your second comment that's bolded, is typical Druff. how do you know what these girls need? You like to state your OPINIONS as facts. so please, back that up with a statistic. Because the way I see it, EVERYONE needs money. Especially a 30 year old, who probably has debt because our economy has failed us. You're lucky, you're over 40, you're one of the last generations who was able to get a decent job out of college. My generation, not so much.

So before you go shitting on people, think about that.

[BeerAndPoker]

^^^^ - The main point is not whether these girls can use money because I agree practically of us can but these girls have stuff handed to them on a silver platter. A job like being a food runner for All American Dave making $100 an hour is an easy living along with other waiting/service type of jobs (and tons don't involve stripping so lets not go there).

Giving the extra $2 away if you feel obliged to do it to someone who cleans toilets or some other grunt work job that you know don't get paid much isn't a bad idea.

It's not to say the food runner girl can't use that money too but typically the person busting their ass making much less then the server girl could probably use it more.

[Daly]

Maybe it's me but I think we are taking the whole "waitress making $100 a Hr" thing a little too far. I could see them clearing that for 1-2 hours during lunch/Dinner for the 2 months that is the wsop, but what about after that and what about at 3 AM?

That's not to invalidate most of the points being made here.

[Sanlmar]

Maybe it's me but I think we are taking the whole "waitress making $100 a Hr" thing a little too far. I could see them clearing that for 1-2 hours during lunch/Dinner for the 2 months that is the wsop, but what about after that and what about at 3 AM?

That's not to invalidate most of the points being made here.

I agree with your general outlook in this thread.

Girls are maximizing their opportunity during a short period. If it wasn't a plus plus situation some migrant Mexican would run your food.

Comparing engineer & mechanic's salary to a service worker is apples and oranges. It is as retarded an exercise as comparing an NFL cornerback's income to a dentist. This is not how the world works. Entertainment and service is quite different than most people who are a cost of sales, for instance.

Engineers & mechanics are an expense. They are tools. Maybe sophisticated tools. They don't affect me personally. I can elect not to purchase their resulting product

Service workers can have a huge impact on my happiness during the course of my day. It really is of no concern to me how much they make annually and how that compares to others. All I fucking care about is me. Am I happy? Can MY experience be more pleasant. I will pay for that.

Jerk me around and I will derive a different pleasure by making it my mission to fuck up your day too. I win either way.

Those All American Dave girls don't have change? I have a feeling I am being hustled? Tell you what, come back when you have fucking change and I'll tip you then. You get zip now.

[Sanlmar]

Just recalled something I saw last night.

I stopped by my business last night. I bumped into the owner of our contracted cleaning company. I have a suspicion many of the cleaners are illegal but that ain't my problem.

Anyway, she opened a supply cabinet and I moved on.

Later, a cleaner came in and announced to me it was her birthday. Still later, she is at that supply cabinet and she is opening a package left by the cleaning company owner. She shows me an cute inexpensive necklace & earrings. She opens a birthday card and in it there is a check. She's nearly crying she's so happy.

That cleaner is gonna be exceptionally loyal and I expect she is gonna bust ass at her job. The owner is not gonna have to worry about getting a complaint about service for a while.

This is tipping of a sort.

I filed this away as a reminder to myself about the power of a "gratuity" beyond salary.

[Sanlmar]

The problem with our tipping culture exists on a few levels:

2) When going out to a nice meal, or gambling for relatively big money, it seems trivial to give a few extra dollars. If you're in a $1500 buyin event (or possibly way more), what is the difference between $3 and $5? If you even spend time thinking about that, you're a cheap and insensitive asshole.



-----------

2) The amount you are paying to enter the event is irrelevant. This type of thinking is what makes so many gamblers go broke. "I just lost/won $4000 gambling, so who cares about $15?" The problem is that all of this adds up, and it eventually bleeds into your entire attitude towards money. It is your business how you want to spend your own money. Even if you want to spend $10,000 entering an event, that does not mean that you need to overtip food runners bringing you food while you're playing. By that logic, you should also pay twice as much as the non-gamblers for your meal during the dinner break! Wasting money is wasting money, regardless of the way you spent before.

Thread has me thinking, which is rare lately.

I would consider myself a reformed Orthodox Jew.

When I was younger I was an engineer type and later a salary man with a bonus.

My parents were frugal "save for tomorrow" types and I ran with that example. I was a cheap fuck. I denied myself a lot of pleasures and built some savings.

(The best part is I lost all those savings in my first stab at trading).

Perhaps I was a bit cocky and thought I was smarter and harder working than the competition. Didn't really invest much in my relationships. Thrift, smarts and industry will prevail. The Orthodox Jew meets the Puritan work ethic. It's bullshit and small time thinking.

Had buddies who would splash around with their money and lived. Mixed it up with others. I paid attention.

Ten years go by. Who do you think was winning? The Jew? Nope. The Jew was small time.

We now know poker players over the long haul are working a fixed income or return. So many BB/1000 hands.
Druff recognizes this and manages accordingly, I guess.

"They" were the guys who bought the rounds, treated you to golf at the club and had favorable relationships with those they did business with and generally won life.

People once described people who lived your ethic as being "a child of the depression". Hanging up wet paper towels to be reused. Clipping coupons. Using all that energy to manage limited or finite resources.

Use that energy and resources to mix it up with those around you.

I just paid $1700 for service on a Ford Explorer. I thought I had a transmission problem. Turned out to be holes in the radiator and a cooling hose through firewall that subsequently caused transmission to overheat.

I tip the mechanic at the Ford dealership I always frequent. I always try to get the same guy. I walk in there and they know me. Mechanic takes a moment to talk to me about the truck or Red Sox. The dealership agreed to invoice my business so I get 30-60 days to pay. I think I have a relationship.

I feel like something special when I walk in there - so if nothing else, I am happy. Lol, $40 on a $1700 bill.

Relationships, a happy attitude, share a bit of the wealth. It's a personal battle I fight every day. It really is not how I am wired. It's hard to fight your upbringing and childhood. At my core I am a cynical, cheap, loner (without a gun permit).

It takes courage to splash around a little with money and relationships. If you think you're a smart guy you'll survive a setback.

Would love Drexel or cmoney's philosophy or take. Anyone else for that matter.

[sonatine]

Given the circumstances, the environment, the service at bar, I would be tipping the full $5 here by default.

I concede, easily, that perhaps youre simply more responsible with money than me, but a $5 head shot for getting food delivered into the Rio just feels market value to me. If I had $3 in singles, I could roll with a $3 tip if the universe wasnt sucking my dick that day and I was feeling vulnerable but erring on the side of generosity would have made the girls feel good and you feel good for making the girls feel good in this spot. People have shitty lives these days. I dont. So the extra $2 is pretty easy to cough up is how I feel.

Also $25 for a dece healthy meal under these circumstances is super bargain time. Consider sneaking a good pair of chopsticks in with you if youre making a ritual of this (I would (chopsticks and ritual)).

Good post.

The percent any individual tips, whether it be at a restaurant, a casino or for food delivery is an individual's choice. I always use the 20% benchmark when dining out, assuming the service was good. I will tip 25% if the service is extraordinary and or the server goes the extra mile.

I don't punish servers for kitchen mistakes as long as they communicate to me what ever issues occur. I also don't "make servers run around constantly" throughout the meal.

As I posted, to me $3 in my opinion is a more than fair amount for a usually 30 second transaction, in which at most 5 minutes maximum was required of there time to drop off one bag among many.

As another poster mentioned, it's highly fathomable that these young ladies make $50 if not more per hour!

A first year teacher in Nevada (college graduate of course) make a little over $20,000 a year! It's little wonder Nevada has a shortfall in teachers. How could anyone live of that?

I only make that point because it's evident how flawed our society has become regarding tipping. Of course an extra $2 won't hurt me. But as I have gotten older, I tend to evaluate things different and make financial decisions differently than when I was much younger.

All good points, and there's another dynamic that we should touch on here... when I'm at a poker table, all that good will I'm preaching goes right the fuck out the window.

I rarely tip dealers these days and when I started playing, I toked _everyone_ .

[Peter Binklage]

4) If you still feel guilty about tipping $3 instead of $5 to these food runner girls, take the other $2 and hand it to a person cleaning the bathroom or doing some other unpleasant job for ACTUAL minimum wage (with no tips!) They will need it and appreciate it much more, and there you will ACTUALLY BE HELPING a poor person, rather than helping some stuck-up twentysomething buy a designer purse.

This is spot-on. Makes me sad that I'm literally the only person I've ever seen tip the people who sweep up trash and pick up empty glasses at the tables. Ashamed that I don't go out of my way to tip these people more often.

[Drexel]

4) If you still feel guilty about tipping $3 instead of $5 to these food runner girls, take the other $2 and hand it to a person cleaning the bathroom or doing some other unpleasant job for ACTUAL minimum wage (with no tips!) They will need it and appreciate it much more, and there you will ACTUALLY BE HELPING a poor person, rather than helping some stuck-up twentysomething buy a designer purse.

This is spot-on. Makes me sad that I'm literally the only person I've ever seen tip the people who sweep up trash and pick up empty glasses at the tables. Ashamed that I don't go out of my way to tip these people more often.

Last night I was at the palazzo with Traderusky. I got $40 in singles and handed $2 each to every porter on the floor I saw cleaning ash trays and trash as well as the gentleman cleaning the men's room until all the singles were gone.

Of course I can't do this every time I enter a casino but the one most important lesson I will take from this is that I will definitely start tipping $3-4 every trip to those under paid workers who really do need a little extra and appreciate it.

[BeerAndPoker]

Hot grill who is cleaning up with tips looks at you and might say thanks with a fake smile thinking "cheapo didn't give me a fiver" since you give her $3 while you make someones day who normally don't receive tips by giving them one for doing a harder/dirtier job.

I like it.

In some restaurants the servers have to give a small percentage to the cook and in others they don't have to give a dime. If a cook makes an amazing meal you loved they should receive part of the tip. I could tip the girl normally and then hand her a few extra bucks telling her to make sure the cook gets this but the reality is I bet she just sticks it in her pocket 90% of the time never paying the cook.

[Dan Druff]

My point is that tipped service professions versus non-tipped service professions are very unequal, and people tend to ignore that when deciding who to tip and how much to tip.

Sorry, but you don't deserve a $5 tip for walking 150 feet with a bag of food to my table, while you're carrying five other bags for five other tippers. You just don't.

And by "deserve", I mean what you deserve from me. The other five guys can tip $100 each for all I care. But at the same time, I'm not tipping you $5 just because the other five guys are tipping you $5.

You already make a lot of money for a very unskilled job. (Seriously, I could train 5-year-old Benjamin to do this job!) You are providing me a very minor service, one that is very little trouble and takes very little time. Hell, if someone handed me 6 bags to deliver while I was hanging around on break, I would do it for $30 in tips (I'm not joking!)

$3 is not undertipping. What defines undertipping, anyway? Giving less than what everyone else does? As Brandon pointed out, people are giving $5 partially due to the lack of change available, and partially because they're playing an expensive WSOP event and figure an amount like $5 is nothing to them. But everyone should not be expected to do that, and anyone tipping less than $5 shouldn't be considered cheap.

How come $5 for walking over a $25 bag is an appropriate tip, and yet that same $5 is an appropriate tip for a diner where you buy a $25 meal, and the waitress spends 90-120 minutes going back and forth getting things for you?