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Thread: I have come to believe that American tipping culture is more about the tipper making himself feel good, rather than actually helping anyone

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I have come to believe that American tipping culture is more about the tipper making himself feel good, rather than actually helping anyone

    When it comes to America versus Europe cultural and governmental discussions, I'm usually on the side of the Americans, but one area where I believe Europe has it correct is tipping culture. In Europe, they don't tip very much, and it's rarely expected or automatic.

    American tipping culture has gotten out of control, and I now believe it has become more about the tipper wanting to feel good about himself rather than truly caring about the plight of service employees.



    Tip For This, Not That

    First off, tipping is full of contradictions and arbitrary standards. Supposedly we tip for "service" and to "help low paid employees make a living", but a closer look shows that this is extremely arbitrary and almost random.

    You tip the valet and the bellman, but you don't tip the front desk employee unless he/she does you a favor.

    You tip the blackjack dealer and the cocktail waitress, but not the guy cleaning the public bathroom you just used in the same casino.

    You tip the server at a restaurant 18% or more, but only a little of that goes to the busboys, dishwashing crew, and hostess. In many cases, the assistant chefs end up making far less than the servers.

    Tipping at restaurants is in relation to the cost of the meal, even though it's just as difficult to serve a cheap meal as it is an expensive one. However, servers at expensive restaurants will often make up to 20x more in tips than servers at cheap restaurants.

    Restaurant servers get 18%+ in tips, but those working the takeout area tend to get a few dollars tip at most, and often get nothing.

    You tip the guys driving the shuttle at the airport for lifting your bag on and off the bus, but you don't tip the airline checkin staff for lifting your bag, weighing it, and putting it onto the belt.

    You are forced to give mandatory "gratuities" to the staff on cruise ships, which most cruise lines simply pocket and use to pay wages.

    Casino employees doing government-mandated "handpays" of jackpots over $1200 expect tips, yet you do not typically tip the cashier or anyone else doing administrative paperwork for you at the casino.

    Hotel maids, despite doing a (literally) crappy job for low pay, only receive irregular tips, and not very much.

    Blackjack dealers expect tips in proportion to the amount being wagered, even if the player is losing overall, and even though the games are -EV. Some of these dealers make near $100k/year after tips, but you are still expected to tip them well.

    You are expected to leave a tip to the person cutting your hair, even if they work for themselves and set their own price.

    You are expected to tip drivers (such as taxicabs and Uber), even if they work for themselves.

    You are NOT expected to tip a repairman who comes to your house and fixes something, whether or not he works for himself.

    You are NOT expected to tip a fast food employee, even though they tend to make minimum wage and are doing a service job.

    If there is a mandatory auto-tip in place, such as a large-party 18% restaurant tip or poker tournament auto-tip, you are somehow considered an asshole if you leave 1-2% extra because it's "insulting", yet it's perfectly okay to leave 0% extra. (Explain that one!)

    I could go on and on with this stuff.



    I Tip, Therefore I'm a Better Person

    However, if you bring up the subject of tipping, Americans get very sanctimonious.

    People love to brag and one-up each other when it comes to the standard tips they supposedly leave.

    "I always leave 20% minimum at restaurants!"

    "Oh yeah? Well I leave 25% minimum and 35% if the service is good!"

    "So what? I will leave 20% if the service is bad, 30% normally, and 40% if it's good!"

    If you dare speak out against tipping culture, you are chided for "not caring about people making minimum wage" and "being a cheap, selfish asshole."

    When you ask about the arbitrary customary tipping as described above, where certain positions get it and others don't, with no rhyme or reason, you're told, "That's the way it is" or "Nobody's stopping you from also tipping those other people."



    Just Fair Pay, Please

    In reality, tipping has just shifted the burden of pay from the employers to the customers, and often leaves customers in an awkward position to figure out exactly how much to leave.

    There really isn't a reason for tipping at all, except perhaps after-the-fact, under-the-table sort of tipping, for receiving extra favors or whatever. Servers should simply be paid a fair wage. The ones working at places like Denny's are underpaid, and the ones working at nice restaurants are way overpaid. There should be some difference in pay depending upon the level of the restaurant, but not an order of magnitude.

    In general, employees should not be receiving tips for doing their standard jobs. They should be paid fair wages to start, and that should be that. This also would make compensation more equitable across the profession. Presently, some do much better than others, simply because they happen to score a job at a place with a higher-priced menu or higher limit blackjack tables.

    But when it all comes down to it, I've realized that most people get so defensive about tipping because they see tipping as an extension of what makes them a good person. Most people tip so they can feel good about themselves, not because they really have a strong desire to actually help anyone. This is why the "generous tippers" at restaurants rarely hand money to the guy they pass by in the hotel who is mopping the floor. If tipping was really about helping low paid employees, they'd give more handouts to people mopping the floor, and a less generous tip to an already-overpaid prime steakhouse server.



    Better to Believe a Pleasant Lie Than the Harsh Truth

    I noticed something really interesting on a cruise forum a few years ago.

    I came to learn that the mandatory auto-tip (now standard on almost all cruise lines) actually goes into the pockets of the cruise line. See, there's a maritime minimum wage, which all cruise lines have agreed to adhere to. However, that minimum wage applies to TOTAL pay, not base pay. Therefore, any "tips" count toward that wage, and if the employee is tipped as much as the mininum wage, then the cruise line can legally give them zero base pay. So what's happening here? The mandatory "tips" are actually now acting more as a resort fee, where it makes the cruise look cheaper (since you pay the tips at the end, not when you book), and they simply subtract those mandatory tips from the wage that the employees would have otherwise received. Sneaky, huh? This is industry-wide, and not just on one cruise line.

    Well, I brought this to the attention of people on a cruise forum. They flipped out. Nobody would accept it. Nobody would believe it. Even when I cited evidence and legal language which made it clear this was happening, everyone was still in denial. Why? Because these people had mostly stopped tipping normally, believing that their auto-tips were covering all service employees onboard. Now I was shattering their reality. They actually hadn't been tipping! It was a nasty accounting trick being pulled by the cruise industry! These people didn't want to believe they had been cruising for the last several years without tipping, so they bent over backward trying to explain why I had to be wrong.

    There's also a way to opt out of these auto-tips on cruise lines. Some had stated that they would opt-out and then tip normally again, and they drew tremendous ire from the crowd, insisting that they were "screwing the behind-the-scenes guys", and that they were "cheap assholes". Even when presented with evidence that their auto-tips weren't actually helping any of the employees -- but only helping the cruise line -- these people wouldn't budge.



    Conclusion

    People tip to feel good. If you show them that they actually haven't been tipping, they panic -- even if it wasn't their fault.

    I would love to see tipping vanish forever in the US. Europe doesn't have this insane tipping culture, and in fact they have laws in certain countries where foreign companies doing business there (such as cruise lines) cannot charge mandatory auto-tips to their citizens. So, in the cruise line example, that auto-tip isn't required of many European passengers due to this law.

    Hats off to Europe for saying "no" to this dumb tipping routine!

     
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    Diamond Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    It's also about Applebee's being able to advertise a large portion of shitty food for $10 because they basically don't pay their labor. The cost is shifted into your tips that you have to add on top.

    The expansion of tipping into almost every food service encounter even if you're carrying out or just getting something like coffee is not surprising given the expanding wealth gap. It's a subtler form of begging for money.

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    Speedster Out of Clemson adamantium's Avatar
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    Get back to me on this one when a big mac is 10$ because workers are actually getting paid.
    Slava Ukraini!

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamantium View Post
    Get back to me on this one when a big mac is 10$ because workers are actually getting paid.
    That's a whole different matter. Fast food employees aren't tipped (as I mentioned), so even the changes I called for wouldn't affect the fast food situation.

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    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    I agree with your calling for wage laws to be changed to make employers of waitstaff to be paid like everyone else, with a European-level tipping system tacked on.

    As for cruise line staff tipping: Does US maritime wage law apply to the employees of cruise line companies that are registered in other countries? My understanding is that most are foreign companies and probably not subject to US labor laws. So, it’s more likely the tipping standard on cruise lines run by foreign companies may just be soaking US customers for tips because of the tipping culture here is well known them.
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    Platinum splitthis's Avatar
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    What about the inflated feelings of the tipper who believes someone doesn’t deserve a tip?
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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splitthis View Post
    What about the inflated feelings of the tipper who believes someone doesn’t deserve a tip?
    I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

    Are you talking about the customer who never tips? Or are you talking about someone like me who withholds a tip if the sever is especially terrible and/or rude?

    Because no one is owed a tip just for existing. If you don't give a shit and fuck up very basic things repeatedly, or especially if you are directly rude/confrontational with me, then no, I'm not tipping you. Otherwise I'm tipping normally, even though I hate the system we have in place.

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    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
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    My personal tipping system - round it up to the nearest coin/note.

    Costs $16? Have a 20.
    Costs $19? Have a 20.
    Costs $19.99? Have a 20.

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    I was on a tour guided trip in Israel and when it was time to tip, I tipped about half of the 400ish suggested amount for 2 people and while the 30 or so of us were all on the bus, the tour guide singled me out and asked me to come off the bus to ask me why I tipped this way. I said 200 per person was a bit much and that since this was my first trip to Israel on my own dime(most on the trip have been there several times) I couldnt give 200ish per person.

    She might of thought I was cheap but who gives a fuck. Everyone is getting paid.

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    The last place on earth I would be worried about tipping is Israel.

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    I've been encountering more and more fast food drive thrus where when I pay by CC I'm being handed a receipt with a tip line on it and a pen to sign even if the charge is only $10. There's no doubt this is being done to encourage tipping at the drive thru window now. It's very inconsistent at these places as if the manager let's the employee decide if they want to try to collect tips from the window.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR1GHT View Post
    I've been encountering more and more fast food drive thrus where when I pay by CC I'm being handed a receipt with a tip line on it and a pen to sign even if the charge is only $10. There's no doubt this is being done to encourage tipping at the drive thru window now. It's very inconsistent at these places as if the manager let's the employee decide if they want to try to collect tips from the window.
    A lot of this is just system-related, and not because they're expecting tips.

    It could also be intentional, but it's too hard to tell.

    Speaking of tipping, the food service situation at Commerce (at least in the top section) started to get annoying because the servers were starting to get entitled, expecting $10 tips when they'd bring you a meal. Why? Because a lot of the gamblers were tipping them $10, and most at least $5, even though all they'd do is take your order, wheel the food to you, and never come back. I was tipping them $3-$4 which was regarded as fine for awhile, but as time passed and the average tips increased, some of the servers would feel this was undertipping, and would angrily snatch the $4 from my hand, then walk away angrily. Pissed me off.

    Fortunately this returned more to "normal" because Commerce started charging for food, so this decreased the tips people were giving. All of a sudden, $4 was okay again. That's what I've been tipping, and now nobody looks unhappy.

    Even as the free food has recently returned, I've noticed most players are still tipping around what I am, so it's still fine.

    But I really hate when you give a tip and the recipient acts entitled and ungracious about it.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Very cool, thanks Kanye
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    . So what's happening here? The mandatory "tips" are actually now acting more as a resort fee, where it makes the cruise look cheaper (since you pay the tips at the end, not when you book)
    I just did a cruise. On the last day you receive a statement indicating they have automatically charged an arbitrary service gratuity. I don’t even remember how much. Not small.

    This is the best part.... simultaneously they give you a couple envelopes for tipping the cabin person, wait staff extra. Huh?

    In one hand I’m holding the auto-tipping bill and in the the other I’m holding envelopes. They can fuck off. I’m done cruising. The incessant hustle is off-putting.

    Druff, has anyone gone to Guest Services and had the charge successfully removed?

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    Platinum Jayjami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FR1GHT View Post
    I've been encountering more and more fast food drive thrus where when I pay by CC I'm being handed a receipt with a tip line on it and a pen to sign even if the charge is only $10. There's no doubt this is being done to encourage tipping at the drive thru window now. It's very inconsistent at these places as if the manager let's the employee decide if they want to try to collect tips from the window.
    A lot of this is just system-related, and not because they're expecting tips.

    It could also be intentional, but it's too hard to tell.

    Speaking of tipping, the food service situation at Commerce (at least in the top section) started to get annoying because the servers were starting to get entitled, expecting $10 tips when they'd bring you a meal. Why? Because a lot of the gamblers were tipping them $10, and most at least $5, even though all they'd do is take your order, wheel the food to you, and never come back. I was tipping them $3-$4 which was regarded as fine for awhile, but as time passed and the average tips increased, some of the servers would feel this was undertipping, and would angrily snatch the $4 from my hand, then walk away angrily. Pissed me off.

    Fortunately this returned more to "normal" because Commerce started charging for food, so this decreased the tips people were giving. All of a sudden, $4 was okay again. That's what I've been tipping, and now nobody looks unhappy.

    Even as the free food has recently returned, I've noticed most players are still tipping around what I am, so it's still fine.

    But I really hate when you give a tip and the recipient acts entitled and ungracious about it.
    I’ve never tipped more than 5 bucks for a meal a Commerce. That’s easily over 20%. All the server does is put your food on a tray and wheel it out to you. It’s not like restaurant service. Of course, if I request a drink, even if it’s water, I tip them a buck.

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    Platinum Jayjami's Avatar
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    From the SF Chronicle:

    Starting this month, you might find a new surcharge tacked onto the bottom of your restaurant bill. However, it's only a 1 percent charge, and it's technically optional. If you choose to opt in, it purports to make your meal more climate-friendly: The charge will fund a new program called Restore California, which is managed by the nonprofit Zero Foodprint.

    Restore California provides funding for farmers to build healthy soil, and more specifically funds "carbon farming projects such as compost application, cover crop planting, tree planting and improved grazing management," according to a press release. Zero Foodprint estimates that if a mere 1 percent of restaurants in California add the 1 percent surcharge, in a $97 billion restaurant industry, the program would generate nearly $10 million in the program's first year.

    Every restaurant in California is invited to participate in Restore California, but so far, the list skews mostly upscale: Chez Panisse, Benu and Atelier Crenn, for example.

    Meanwhile, some diners are already pushing back against the charge. The owner of Mission restaurant Great Gold told Mother Jones that after many diners commented negatively on it, the restaurant decided to drop the fee and raise prices by 1 percent instead, with the intention of sending that 1 percent to Restore California each month.

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    Diamond Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    From the SF Chronicle:

    Starting this month, you might find a new surcharge tacked onto the bottom of your restaurant bill. However, it's only a 1 percent charge, and it's technically optional. If you choose to opt in, it purports to make your meal more climate-friendly: The charge will fund a new program called Restore California, which is managed by the nonprofit Zero Foodprint.

    Restore California provides funding for farmers to build healthy soil, and more specifically funds "carbon farming projects such as compost application, cover crop planting, tree planting and improved grazing management," according to a press release. Zero Foodprint estimates that if a mere 1 percent of restaurants in California add the 1 percent surcharge, in a $97 billion restaurant industry, the program would generate nearly $10 million in the program's first year.

    Every restaurant in California is invited to participate in Restore California, but so far, the list skews mostly upscale: Chez Panisse, Benu and Atelier Crenn, for example.

    Meanwhile, some diners are already pushing back against the charge. The owner of Mission restaurant Great Gold told Mother Jones that after many diners commented negatively on it, the restaurant decided to drop the fee and raise prices by 1 percent instead, with the intention of sending that 1 percent to Restore California each month.
    I bet you they raise prices by more than 1% and only send the 1% to the program.

    Sounds like a great program, but any restaurant that automatically adds it to someone's bill are presumptuous cunts.

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    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    From the SF Chronicle:

    Starting this month, you might find a new surcharge tacked onto the bottom of your restaurant bill. However, it's only a 1 percent charge, and it's technically optional. If you choose to opt in, it purports to make your meal more climate-friendly: The charge will fund a new program called Restore California, which is managed by the nonprofit Zero Foodprint.

    Restore California provides funding for farmers to build healthy soil, and more specifically funds "carbon farming projects such as compost application, cover crop planting, tree planting and improved grazing management," according to a press release. Zero Foodprint estimates that if a mere 1 percent of restaurants in California add the 1 percent surcharge, in a $97 billion restaurant industry, the program would generate nearly $10 million in the program's first year.

    Every restaurant in California is invited to participate in Restore California, but so far, the list skews mostly upscale: Chez Panisse, Benu and Atelier Crenn, for example.

    Meanwhile, some diners are already pushing back against the charge. The owner of Mission restaurant Great Gold told Mother Jones that after many diners commented negatively on it, the restaurant decided to drop the fee and raise prices by 1 percent instead, with the intention of sending that 1 percent to Restore California each month.
    Fuck the carbon footprint! San Francisco first needs to get its act together and reform real estate development regulations, use any extra tax on restaurants bills to subsidize creating affordable housing in order to make a dent in the ridiculous homeless problem there!
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    All these places that use tablets to take credit cards are starting to bug me....one place in Austin ran my card and asked if I wanted the receipt....I said no

    Then I saw my cc bill later in the month and it looks like I got shafted...blah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    From the SF Chronicle:

    Starting this month, you might find a new surcharge tacked onto the bottom of your restaurant bill. However, it's only a 1 percent charge, and it's technically optional. If you choose to opt in, it purports to make your meal more climate-friendly: The charge will fund a new program called Restore California, which is managed by the nonprofit Zero Foodprint.

    Restore California provides funding for farmers to build healthy soil, and more specifically funds "carbon farming projects such as compost application, cover crop planting, tree planting and improved grazing management," according to a press release. Zero Foodprint estimates that if a mere 1 percent of restaurants in California add the 1 percent surcharge, in a $97 billion restaurant industry, the program would generate nearly $10 million in the program's first year.

    Every restaurant in California is invited to participate in Restore California, but so far, the list skews mostly upscale: Chez Panisse, Benu and Atelier Crenn, for example.

    Meanwhile, some diners are already pushing back against the charge. The owner of Mission restaurant Great Gold told Mother Jones that after many diners commented negatively on it, the restaurant decided to drop the fee and raise prices by 1 percent instead, with the intention of sending that 1 percent to Restore California each month.
    Some restaurants are also tacking on 1-3% surcharges to "fund healthcare" for their employees.

    Why these obnoxious surcharges instead of simply boosting prices a few percent?

    Because many restaurants have an agreement in the lease to give a percentage of gross receipts to the landlord, and this circumvents having to do so.

    Still dumb and off-putting.

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