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Thread: Ilhan Omar the anti-Semite

  1. #101
    Platinum JimmyG_415's Avatar
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    This thread so full of lies and misinformation.
    Being a GOP today you have to be a 100 % hypocrite and a liar

    How is she an anti-Semite and Trump isn't when she has apologized for everything and hasn't repeated it,
    Trump still has this on his twitter feed
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    Can't wait for druff to address this, "Omar is clearly a jew hater, trump's tweet was misinterpreted because (Fill in the blank w/BS)"

    & where is the thread about how un-american Mike Lee and Rand Paul (and Trump) are?

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    Come on Jimmy, both of these are misleading.

    That Hillary ad with the Jewish star was indeed made by an anti-Semite, but Trump had no idea what he was doing when he retweeted it. He thought it was a good anti-Hillary social media piece, and didn't put that star together with what it really meant. It's not like Trump himself designed it. That's what Trump does. He shoots off on social media without stopping and thinking about it.

    Note that Ilhan Omar ACTUALLY SAID that Jewish money was making politicians support Israel. Nothing to interpret there. She actually said it.

    The 9/11 first responders graphic was also misleading. Rand Paul felt that voting for it caused the government to have an open-ended financial commitment which wasn't well defined, and could last decades. He wasn't against helping the first responders, but wanted "more study" before approving something. Ilhan Omar was just voting on something which seemed obvious to her on the surface and also would have been political suicide NOT to vote for. Rand Paul likes being a rebel and doesn't give a shit about what people think. Personally I disagree with Rand on this one, because time of the essence, and there aren't enough of these first responders needing help to where it would put any kind of dent in the federal budget.

    But no, Ilhan wasn't voting for this because she "loves America", and Rand wasn't voting against it because he "hates America".

    Still waiting for Ilhan to denounce al Qaeda. Why won't she?

     
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      Tellafriend: Jew $ does make politicians support Israel. That and the Bible thumpers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    i'm not saying you should be worried about white supremacists, but you need to consider the fact that trump has given future republican presidential candidates a 100% foolproof blueprint to winning the republican nomination: 1) run on policies popular to white supremacists; and 2) use language that doesn't hide your courting white supremacists.

    how do you think your standard mitt romney or marco rubio type candidate does in future republican primaries against a trump-like republican who says "i want the US to be a christian nation and i want all immigration stopped." if you're being honest, you'll admit the trump-like candidate steamrolls the field.

    do you think if a videotape comes out with trump using the n-word, he loses even one vote? honestly, he might gain votes. how about if he goes hardcore anti-jew? his popularity would likely increase by 10 points. you know this is true.

    my point in saying this is that trump has shown there is no political price to be paid by taking actions or making statements that are at least perceived to be anti-minority. to the contrary -- it's a hugely successful approach -- at least as a republican. i'm not a historian, but this seems new to me. so when you say "white supremacists are a tiny minority so they don't worry me," maybe they should. appealing to "this tiny minority" -- even if unintentional-- equals winning the republican nomination.

    the irony of my argument here is that i loathe just about each and every democrat running and i probably prefer trump's policies over the dems more often than not. the dems being gigantic pussies are largely responsible for trump's rise, and the dems should debate trump's policies on their merits without resorting to the race card every time.

    i just wish he could show a little humility and at least consider how minorities might view his rhetoric. when crowds at your rallies are chanting "send them back" (to congresswomen who are american citizens from the US), you might want to recognize just how damaging your statements are to the future of this country, even if it makes for good present-day politics.
    What you're basically saying is that Trump stumbled upon a winning political formula where he could gain support from mostly apolitical yokels by expressing support for the US to return to Christian values and stopping immigration from countries where its citizens are perceived as dangerous.

    And yes, that was mostly a winning formula in 2016, as it captured the votes of people who either weren't going to vote or hadn't really considered Republicans being aligned with their interests.

    But honestly, that speaks to what the Democrats have been doing in recent years more than the Republicans.

    There's a certain segment of society which, while not previously conservative, feels vilified and left out by all the "heterosexual Christian white people should feel guilty and have too much privilege" rhetoric from the left. Some of the others are confused and disturbed by the rhetoric by the loud extremists within the Democratic Party, which is mostly going unchallenged by the mainstream, and in fact is starting to creep into the mainstream.

    The Democratic Party has basically scared away a lot of the swing voters, and Trump showed up saying, "Hang on, I understand you. This is all a bunch of nonsense. No, you're not a bad person for being white and Christian. No, there aren't 52 genders. Yes, Muslims really are the ones we need to watch out for when it comes to terrorism, and it's not bad to think that. Yes, illegal immigration from Mexico really is out of control, and it's not racist to think that."

    And these people were like, "Yeah, sweet, this guy gets it. I finally understand a politician again, even if this guy seems like kind of a jerk. Okay, I'm supporting him."

    The Democrats created Trump, not the Republicans. They still fail to understand that. Most Democrats think that racist America and right-wing dog whistles gave rise to Trump.

    The Dems don't realize that there's only so much you can pander to your extreme elements before you start to alienate the mainstream. Interestingly, the same thing happened to the Republicans in 1992 when the religious right started to pick up too much influence, and they lost a lot of support they once had from the Reagan Democrats.

     
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  4. #104
    Gold abrown83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    The 9/11 first responders graphic was also misleading. Rand Paul felt that voting for it caused the government to have an open-ended financial commitment which wasn't well defined, and could last decades. He wasn't against helping the first responders, but wanted "more study" before approving something. Ilhan Omar was just voting on something which seemed obvious to her on the surface and also would have been political suicide NOT to vote for. Rand Paul likes being a rebel and doesn't give a shit about what people think. Personally I disagree with Rand on this one, because time of the essence, and there aren't enough of these first responders needing help to where it would put any kind of dent in the federal budget.

    But no, Ilhan wasn't voting for this because she "loves America", and Rand wasn't voting against it because he "hates America".

    Still waiting for Ilhan to denounce al Qaeda. Why won't she?
    Actually Rand supported the bill, he voted no on passing the bill without a vote or a conversation. Basically the Senate tried to pass the bill without Senators going on record or having a conversation, he always supported the legislation.

     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Note that Ilhan Omar ACTUALLY SAID that Jewish money was making politicians support Israel. Nothing to interpret there. She actually said it.
    I don't understand how this is considered such a racist thing to say.

    Also, wouldn't Sheldon Adelson be an example of the statement being true?

    I might be pretty ignorant here.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Note that Ilhan Omar ACTUALLY SAID that Jewish money was making politicians support Israel. Nothing to interpret there. She actually said it.
    I don't understand how this is considered such a racist thing to say.

    Also, wouldn't Sheldon Adelson be an example of the statement being true?

    I might be pretty ignorant here.
    That's pretty much what AIPAC and few others do. They aren't really that coy about it. Maybe because that's what lobbying is. I really don't know what to say if Druff doesn't get that. I could try CAPITAL LETTERS and actually repeating what i said, but after that i'm out of ideas.

     
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      MumblesBadly: LOL!

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    Oh yea and the likely reason why you wont get a stern condemnation of Al-Qaida is that she prefers to have living relatives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Note that Ilhan Omar ACTUALLY SAID that Jewish money was making politicians support Israel. Nothing to interpret there. She actually said it.
    I don't understand how this is considered such a racist thing to say.

    Also, wouldn't Sheldon Adelson be an example of the statement being true?

    I might be pretty ignorant here.
    Of course there is lobbyist money from pro-Israel factions in the US, but that's not why the US is pro-Israel. There's lobbyist money for nearly everything. That by itself means nothing, nor is it any kind of conspiracy.

    Israel is our ally mainly because they are very strategically located in an area where most countries hate us (and the entire West), and the few other that don't simply tolerate us. They're a Western-style country with a democracy and society relatively similar to ours.

    It's not like Israel was a seemingly randomly-picked ally which seems to be getting favorable treatment due to lobbyist money. There are very clear and tangible reasons why it's smart for the US to be allies with Israel. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either an ignorant moron or an anti-Semite (or both).

    Ilhan Omar's message was clear: If you want to know why the US supports Israel, follow the Jew money.

    That's a bad look coming from anyone, but it's especially a bad look from a Muslim who has also appeared to sympathize with anti-US Islamic terror groups, and at the very least seems to minimize their wave of killing and destruction.

    It's amazing how the left is constantly engaging in fringe conspiracy theories about "racist dog whistles" regarding anything Trump says, yet they ascribe the most innocent motives to everything Omar says.

    It's so obvious that Omar hates Jews. You have to be in extreme left-wing denial to not at least admit that.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post

    I don't understand how this is considered such a racist thing to say.

    Also, wouldn't Sheldon Adelson be an example of the statement being true?

    I might be pretty ignorant here.
    Of course there is lobbyist money from pro-Israel factions in the US, but that's not why the US is pro-Israel. There's lobbyist money for nearly everything. That by itself means nothing, nor is it any kind of conspiracy.

    Israel is our ally mainly because they are very strategically located in an area where most countries hate us (and the entire West), and the few other that don't simply tolerate us. They're a Western-style country with a democracy and society relatively similar to ours.

    It's not like Israel was a seemingly randomly-picked ally which seems to be getting favorable treatment due to lobbyist money. There are very clear and tangible reasons why it's smart for the US to be allies with Israel. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either an ignorant moron or an anti-Semite (or both).

    Ilhan Omar's message was clear: If you want to know why the US supports Israel, follow the Jew money.

    That's a bad look coming from anyone, but it's especially a bad look from a Muslim who has also appeared to sympathize with anti-US Islamic terror groups, and at the very least seems to minimize their wave of killing and destruction.

    It's amazing how the left is constantly engaging in fringe conspiracy theories about "racist dog whistles" regarding anything Trump says, yet they ascribe the most innocent motives to everything Omar says.

    It's so obvious that Omar hates Jews. You have to be in extreme left-wing denial to not at least admit that.
    Read this and be embarrassed for being a pawn of the extreme Christian rightwing.

    Defenders of a Racist President Use Jews as Human Shields
    Trump’s bigoted attack on four congresswomen of color has nothing to do with fighting anti-Semitism.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/o...lhan-omar.html

    I’ll cut to the chase with this quote

    Sebastian Gorka, a onetime adviser to Donald Trump, wore a medal from the Vitezi Rend, a Hungarian group historically aligned with Nazism, to one of Trump’s inaugural balls. Gorka was reportedly a member of the group, whose founder, the Hungarian autocrat Miklos Horthy, once said, “For all my life, I have been an anti-Semite.”

    Max Berger is a Jewish social justice activist who has long been deeply involved in Jewish communal life. He’s the co-founder of IfNotNow, a group of American Jews devoted to ending Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory, and recently joined Elizabeth Warren’s presidential campaign.

    In a tweet this month, [Gorka] tarred [Berger] as an anti-Semite. If you’ve been following the increasingly bizarre turn that American discussion of anti-Semitism has taken, you can probably guess which one.

    [Gorka’s] tweet was a particularly brazen example of how right-wing gentiles are wrapping themselves in a smarmy philo-Semitism to attack the left, even when that means attacking either individual Jews or the political interests of most Jewish Americans.

    Such Christian appropriation of the fight against anti-Semitism reached its grim nadir this week. As Trump’s racist invective against Ilhan Omar and three other freshman Democratic congresswomen has dominated the news, the president’s defenders have used Jews as human shields, pretending that hatred of the quartet is rooted in abhorrence of anti-Semitism. On Tuesday, an evangelical outfit called Proclaiming Justice to the Nations accused the Anti-Defamation League — the Anti-Defamation League! — of siding with anti-Semites after the ADL called out Trump’s racism. The group even had the audacity to hurl a Hebrew denunciation
    — “lashon hara,” or “evil tongue” — at the Jewish civil rights organization.

    Republicans are only a short step away from such shamelessness when they try to deflect from the president’s racism by accusing his foes of anti-Semitism. “Montanans are sick and tired of listening to anti-American, anti-Semite, radical Democrats trash our country and our ideals,” Senator Steve Daines of Montana tweeted on Monday, proclaiming his solidarity with Trump.

    It’s true that Omar has said things that were freighted with anti-Semitism, for which she has expressed regret. But it is grotesque to argue that that excuses racism against her, or that Trump’s taunts have anything to do with protecting Jews. This is a president who regularly deploys anti-Semitic tropes and whose ex-wife said that he slept with a volume of Hitler’s speeches by his bed. When speaking to American Jews, he’s called Israel “your country” and Benjamin Netanyahu “your prime minister,” suggesting that in his mind, we don’t fully belong here any more than Omar does.

    ...

    It’s worth thinking about how we got to a point where anti-Semitism can be exploited as it has been this week. What we’re seeing is the absurd but logical endpoint of efforts to conflate anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism, and anti-Zionism with opposition to Israel’s right-wing government. Only if these concepts are interchangeable can Jewish critics of Israel be the perpetrators of anti-Semitism and gentiles who play footsie with fascism be allies of the Jewish people. Only if these concepts are the same can an evangelical group claim that Jews are being anti-Jewish when they protest Trump, because Trump loves Israel.
    _____________________________________________
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    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post
    We all have prejudices of some sort -- it was an instinct honed over eons to allow us to survive and ultimately evolve. Anyone who doesn't believe that is lying to themselves.

    Most, if not all, of the examples given above aren't indictive of racism, but rather someone operating without a filter who is sharing his view of the world, foolishly.




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  11. #111
    Diamond blake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post

    I don't understand how this is considered such a racist thing to say.

    Also, wouldn't Sheldon Adelson be an example of the statement being true?

    I might be pretty ignorant here.
    Of course there is lobbyist money from pro-Israel factions in the US, but that's not why the US is pro-Israel. There's lobbyist money for nearly everything. That by itself means nothing, nor is it any kind of conspiracy.

    Israel is our ally mainly because they are very strategically located in an area where most countries hate us (and the entire West), and the few other that don't simply tolerate us. They're a Western-style country with a democracy and society relatively similar to ours.

    It's not like Israel was a seemingly randomly-picked ally which seems to be getting favorable treatment due to lobbyist money. There are very clear and tangible reasons why it's smart for the US to be allies with Israel. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either an ignorant moron or an anti-Semite (or both).

    Ilhan Omar's message was clear: If you want to know why the US supports Israel, follow the Jew money.

    That's a bad look coming from anyone, but it's especially a bad look from a Muslim who has also appeared to sympathize with anti-US Islamic terror groups, and at the very least seems to minimize their wave of killing and destruction.

    It's amazing how the left is constantly engaging in fringe conspiracy theories about "racist dog whistles" regarding anything Trump says, yet they ascribe the most innocent motives to everything Omar says.

    It's so obvious that Omar hates Jews. You have to be in extreme left-wing denial to not at least admit that.
    druff, you're really suffering from some form of derangement syndrome. how is it possible you have so little self awareness?

    you've given trump a pass for tons of examples of potential racism and even went so far as to conclusively determine that "he's not racist", yet omar's line -- "it's all about the benjamins" -- conclusively defines her as anti-semitic. that she may be blasting israeli lobbying is not even possible in your world.

    take this from someone who genuinely hates every politician involved -- you're quickly departing from even mildly objective to a conservative mumbles. (sorry but it's true.)

    and please don't cite examples of you criticizing trump (albeit extremely mildly). if you have to cite examples of of your objectiveness, you're not objective

  12. #112
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Read this and be embarrassed for being a pawn of the extreme Christian rightwing.

    Defenders of a Racist President Use Jews as Human Shields
    Trump’s bigoted attack on four congresswomen of color has nothing to do with fighting anti-Semitism.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/o...lhan-omar.html

    I’ll cut to the chase with this quote

    Sebastian Gorka, a onetime adviser to Donald Trump, wore a medal from the Vitezi Rend, a Hungarian group historically aligned with Nazism, to one of Trump’s inaugural balls. Gorka was reportedly a member of the group, whose founder, the Hungarian autocrat Miklos Horthy, once said, “For all my life, I have been an anti-Semite.”

    Max Berger is a Jewish social justice activist who has long been deeply involved in Jewish communal life. He’s the co-founder of IfNotNow, a group of American Jews devoted to ending Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory, and recently joined Elizabeth Warren’s presidential campaign.

    In a tweet this month, [Gorka] tarred [Berger] as an anti-Semite. If you’ve been following the increasingly bizarre turn that American discussion of anti-Semitism has taken, you can probably guess which one.

    [Gorka’s] tweet was a particularly brazen example of how right-wing gentiles are wrapping themselves in a smarmy philo-Semitism to attack the left, even when that means attacking either individual Jews or the political interests of most Jewish Americans.

    Such Christian appropriation of the fight against anti-Semitism reached its grim nadir this week. As Trump’s racist invective against Ilhan Omar and three other freshman Democratic congresswomen has dominated the news, the president’s defenders have used Jews as human shields, pretending that hatred of the quartet is rooted in abhorrence of anti-Semitism. On Tuesday, an evangelical outfit called Proclaiming Justice to the Nations accused the Anti-Defamation League — the Anti-Defamation League! — of siding with anti-Semites after the ADL called out Trump’s racism. The group even had the audacity to hurl a Hebrew denunciation
    — “lashon hara,” or “evil tongue” — at the Jewish civil rights organization.

    Republicans are only a short step away from such shamelessness when they try to deflect from the president’s racism by accusing his foes of anti-Semitism. “Montanans are sick and tired of listening to anti-American, anti-Semite, radical Democrats trash our country and our ideals,” Senator Steve Daines of Montana tweeted on Monday, proclaiming his solidarity with Trump.

    It’s true that Omar has said things that were freighted with anti-Semitism, for which she has expressed regret. But it is grotesque to argue that that excuses racism against her, or that Trump’s taunts have anything to do with protecting Jews. This is a president who regularly deploys anti-Semitic tropes and whose ex-wife said that he slept with a volume of Hitler’s speeches by his bed. When speaking to American Jews, he’s called Israel “your country” and Benjamin Netanyahu “your prime minister,” suggesting that in his mind, we don’t fully belong here any more than Omar does.

    ...

    It’s worth thinking about how we got to a point where anti-Semitism can be exploited as it has been this week. What we’re seeing is the absurd but logical endpoint of efforts to conflate anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism, and anti-Zionism with opposition to Israel’s right-wing government. Only if these concepts are interchangeable can Jewish critics of Israel be the perpetrators of anti-Semitism and gentiles who play footsie with fascism be allies of the Jewish people. Only if these concepts are the same can an evangelical group claim that Jews are being anti-Jewish when they protest Trump, because Trump loves Israel.
    That article sucks.

    Typical highly biased NY Times garbage.

    Look at how intentionally misleading it.

    Here's how it began:

    "Sebastian Gorka, a onetime adviser to Donald Trump, wore a medal from the Vitezi Rend, a Hungarian group historically aligned with Nazism, to one of Trump’s inaugural balls. Gorka was reportedly a member of the group, whose founder, the Hungarian autocrat Miklos Horthy, once said, 'For all my life, I have been an anti-Semite.'"

    Ugh.

    So Gorka, who was a onetime adviser to Trump (that is, not a current one), and he was reportedly a member of a group whose founder said he was an anti-Semite (that is, Gorka himself didn't say he was an anti-Semite, but he was a "reportedly" a member of a group run by a guy who was.)

    Come on.

    That's like me writing, "Mumbles is a frequent poster on a site called PokerFraudAlert, which was once frequented by another poster named FPS_Russia, who made a large number of anti-Semitic posts. Therefore, Mumbles is an anti-Semite."

    Even if Gorka really is quietly an anti-Semite pretending to take up for Jews in order to attack the left, so what? Who is he? A "onetime adviser" to Trump who nobody has ever heard of?

    It should be noted that Max Berger, despite his Jewish-sounding name, is the co-founder of a group devoted to ending the Israeli occupation of Palestine. While I don't wish to get into the very complicated Palestine debate, I can tell you that I've observed that American Jews who are strongly advocating to ending the Israeli Palestine occupation tend to be anti-Israel. Oddly, there are some anti-Israel American Jews out there, and without knowing more about Berger, there's a decent chance that he's one of them.

    So while it's still inaccurate to call Berger an anti-Semite, it's not as outrageous as you think, since Berger is probably quietly anti-Israel, and dressing it up as just opposing their current policies.

    But seriously, who the fuck cares?

    Let's say Gorka is an idiot and stupidly called a left-wing Jew an anti-Semite. And let's even say Gorka is really an anti-Semite himself.

    Again, so what? This is one guy who nobody cares about.

    I don't see why you are directing this at me.

    I am a Jew. Nobody here disputes that.

    I observed myself that Ilhan Omar was an anti-Semite. I didn't need the Christian right to tell me that. I have my own eyes and ears.

    Nobody is manipulating me.

    I see a Muslim politician who clearly hates Jews, and also clearly is sympathetic to terrorist groups which have attacked the US.

    You don't need to be a Jew or look very hard to see any of that.

    Laughably, even that lame article you posted concedes that Omar has said some anti-Semitic things, but notes that "she has expressed regret" about those comments. You've gotta be kidding me. Yeah, I'm sure she's super regretful and didn't really mean any of those things.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Of course there is lobbyist money from pro-Israel factions in the US, but that's not why the US is pro-Israel. There's lobbyist money for nearly everything. That by itself means nothing, nor is it any kind of conspiracy.

    Israel is our ally mainly because they are very strategically located in an area where most countries hate us (and the entire West), and the few other that don't simply tolerate us. They're a Western-style country with a democracy and society relatively similar to ours.

    It's not like Israel was a seemingly randomly-picked ally which seems to be getting favorable treatment due to lobbyist money. There are very clear and tangible reasons why it's smart for the US to be allies with Israel. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either an ignorant moron or an anti-Semite (or both).

    Ilhan Omar's message was clear: If you want to know why the US supports Israel, follow the Jew money.

    That's a bad look coming from anyone, but it's especially a bad look from a Muslim who has also appeared to sympathize with anti-US Islamic terror groups, and at the very least seems to minimize their wave of killing and destruction.

    It's amazing how the left is constantly engaging in fringe conspiracy theories about "racist dog whistles" regarding anything Trump says, yet they ascribe the most innocent motives to everything Omar says.

    It's so obvious that Omar hates Jews. You have to be in extreme left-wing denial to not at least admit that.
    druff, you're really suffering from some form of derangement syndrome. how is it possible you have so little self awareness?

    you've given trump a pass for tons of examples of potential racism and even went so far as to conclusively determine that "he's not racist", yet omar's line -- "it's all about the benjamins" -- conclusively defines her as anti-semitic. that she may be blasting israeli lobbying is not even possible in your world.

    take this from someone who genuinely hates every politician involved -- you're quickly departing from even mildly objective to a conservative mumbles. (sorry but it's true.)

    and please don't cite examples of you criticizing trump (albeit extremely mildly). if you have to cite examples of of your objectiveness, you're not objective
    Why do you think I'm willing to admit Trump's fault in other areas and not this supposed racism?

    If I really believed he was racist, I would say so. I haven't been blind to Trump, and in fact stated many times during the 2016 primary that I really, really didn't want him to be the candidate.

    The examples of Trump's "racism" are incredibly weak, and seem to be more pointing to examples of a prejudiced, racially insensitive guy than a racist who hates non-whites.

    Ilhan isn't just any random politician. She's a devout Muslim, so when she makes a comment about Jewish money influencing US policy toward Israel, you take notice. Had it just been a non-Muslim Democrat saying it, I would also suspect anti-Semitism, but I would be willing to entertain the small chance that it was a general anti-lobbying statement. When it comes from a Muslim, and when her anti-lobbying focus is only upon Israel and nothing else, you'd have to be a complete idiot to not realize what she meant.

    Furthermore, she has made other statements since then which reinforce the obvious.

    All of Trump's controversial policies are not rooted in racism, but rather what he sees as putting "America first", as he even claimed he'd do during his campaign.

    He wants to build the wall not because he hates brown people, but because he believes immigrants from Mexico burden our social systems and commit crime.

    He wanted to ban Muslims from entering the country -- even as refugees -- because Muslims are the most likely immigrants to be coming here for reasons to commit acts of terror, even if the vast majority are coming for innocent reasons.

    The left calls these policies borne from racism. I strongly disagree. Even if you disagree with the policies themselves, the sentiment behind them is not racist. The policies are America-centric -- with the basic principle that it's better to shut a large group of mostly innocent people out of the country if the small percentage who aren't innocent are going to hurt America.

  14. #114
    Diamond blake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post

    druff, you're really suffering from some form of derangement syndrome. how is it possible you have so little self awareness?

    you've given trump a pass for tons of examples of potential racism and even went so far as to conclusively determine that "he's not racist", yet omar's line -- "it's all about the benjamins" -- conclusively defines her as anti-semitic. that she may be blasting israeli lobbying is not even possible in your world.

    take this from someone who genuinely hates every politician involved -- you're quickly departing from even mildly objective to a conservative mumbles. (sorry but it's true.)

    and please don't cite examples of you criticizing trump (albeit extremely mildly). if you have to cite examples of of your objectiveness, you're not objective
    Why do you think I'm willing to admit Trump's fault in other areas and not this supposed racism?

    If I really believed he was racist, I would say so. I haven't been blind to Trump, and in fact stated many times during the 2016 primary that I really, really didn't want him to be the candidate.

    The examples of Trump's "racism" are incredibly weak, and seem to be more pointing to examples of a prejudiced, racially insensitive guy than a racist who hates non-whites.
    i think one of the issues we're having is that your definition of racism is different from what is commonly accepted.

    many people would define a "prejudiced, racially insensitive" guy as racist, depending on what the prejudice was.

    like, if we take trump's supposed statement that "all blacks are lazy", that would certainly be evidence of prejudice, but i think most people would deem that a racist viewpoint and consider trump a racist for thinking it.

  15. #115
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    Uhhh benefit of the doubt please at the time he meant all blacks were lazy except for oj Joe Jackson and 3 year old bo Jackson he knew he was a 2 sport star

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post

    druff, you're really suffering from some form of derangement syndrome. how is it possible you have so little self awareness?

    you've given trump a pass for tons of examples of potential racism and even went so far as to conclusively determine that "he's not racist", yet omar's line -- "it's all about the benjamins" -- conclusively defines her as anti-semitic. that she may be blasting israeli lobbying is not even possible in your world.

    take this from someone who genuinely hates every politician involved -- you're quickly departing from even mildly objective to a conservative mumbles. (sorry but it's true.)

    and please don't cite examples of you criticizing trump (albeit extremely mildly). if you have to cite examples of of your objectiveness, you're not objective
    Why do you think I'm willing to admit Trump's fault in other areas and not this supposed racism?

    If I really believed he was racist, I would say so. I haven't been blind to Trump, and in fact stated many times during the 2016 primary that I really, really didn't want him to be the candidate.

    The examples of Trump's "racism" are incredibly weak, and seem to be more pointing to examples of a prejudiced, racially insensitive guy than a racist who hates non-whites.

    Ilhan isn't just any random politician. She's a devout Muslim, so when she makes a comment about Jewish money influencing US policy toward Israel, you take notice. Had it just been a non-Muslim Democrat saying it, I would also suspect anti-Semitism, but I would be willing to entertain the small chance that it was a general anti-lobbying statement. When it comes from a Muslim, and when her anti-lobbying focus is only upon Israel and nothing else, you'd have to be a complete idiot to not realize what she meant.

    Furthermore, she has made other statements since then which reinforce the obvious.

    All of Trump's controversial policies are not rooted in racism, but rather what he sees as putting "America first", as he even claimed he'd do during his campaign.

    He wants to build the wall not because he hates brown people, but because he believes immigrants from Mexico burden our social systems and commit crime.

    He wanted to ban Muslims from entering the country -- even as refugees -- because Muslims are the most likely immigrants to be coming here for reasons to commit acts of terror, even if the vast majority are coming for innocent reasons.

    The left calls these policies borne from racism. I strongly disagree. Even if you disagree with the policies themselves, the sentiment behind them is not racist. The policies are America-centric -- with the basic principle that it's better to shut a large group of mostly innocent people out of the country if the small percentage who aren't innocent are going to hurt America.
    OMG this is this level of intellect cannot come from a site owner. Unless this is really Alex Jones.

    The only way Trump cannot be considered a racist, which if you know his/family history is simply wrong, is that he is so stupid he's not intentionally racist. But ignorance is not a defense much like road violations. Still he's racist in one of the most racist nations in the world. Shocking

  17. #117
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Why do you think I'm willing to admit Trump's fault in other areas and not this supposed racism?

    If I really believed he was racist, I would say so. I haven't been blind to Trump, and in fact stated many times during the 2016 primary that I really, really didn't want him to be the candidate.

    The examples of Trump's "racism" are incredibly weak, and seem to be more pointing to examples of a prejudiced, racially insensitive guy than a racist who hates non-whites.
    i think one of the issues we're having is that your definition of racism is different from what is commonly accepted.

    many people would define a "prejudiced, racially insensitive" guy as racist, depending on what the prejudice was.

    like, if we take trump's supposed statement that "all blacks are lazy", that would certainly be evidence of prejudice, but i think most people would deem that a racist viewpoint and consider trump a racist for thinking it.
    The "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist" song from Broadway play "Avenue Q" comes to mind:




    You can think black people are lazy without hating black people or wanting bad things for them.

    I don't doubt that Trump has negative thoughts about certain aspects of other races, but so does almost everyone (including non-whites about white people), and if you deny that, you're probably lying to yourself.

    That doesn't mean that you can't treat people of other races fairly and respectfully.

    The problem with the rhetoric I see from the left is that Trump is the "racist President" and that racism largely informs most of his decisions and plans.

    That is just so far from the truth. You can say a lot of negative things about Trump, and the biggest valid criticisms of his character include narcissism, selfishness, vindictiveness, and acting/speaking/tweeting without thinking.

    None of these qualities are good for a President to have, and if the left hammered these faults as reasons one shouldn't vote for Trump, I'd have a hard time arguing with them.

    Racist? Nope. Just don't see it. Unless you want to go by the left's current definition of "racist", which probably would get last decade's "Avenue Q" boycotted in 2019.

  18. #118
    Diamond blake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    You can think black people are lazy without hating black people or wanting bad things for them.
    but wanting bad things to happen to a certain race is not an element of racism. thinking a race of people are genetically inferior, on the other hand, is the literal definition of racism. "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

     
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      limitles: he's back +1 how do you argue with a racist?

  19. #119
    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    I’m undoubtedly a racist by the standard definition. In the nature v nurture argument, I’m strongly in the nature camp in regards to raw intellect. I’m strongly in the nurture camp as far as to what degree parents churn out productive members of society. I think inherent intellect lends itself to fostering a nurturing environment in most cases.

    I think Trump thinks, on some level, largely as I do. Jews are incredibly intelligent on average, which lends itself to ending up with a lot of assets and power. I think the raw intellect of the different racial makeups is rather self-evident. Our past as a nation and the misuse of eugenics type programs has led to us ignoring pretty obvious truths.

    If one is being honest, no one is betting on the black kid in the science fair against the Jewish and Asian kid, and even if they were all raised in the exact same controlled environment. I’ll give you the entire population of the world in the Olympic 100m if I get someone with dna from west Africa. Same for NBA mvp. No one is taking that bet. I don’t know why we can so clearly recognize the relative strengths in athletics and pretend to ignore the rest. We all have our strengths.

    Trumps narcissism is what makes him dangerous, rather than his racism. He puts himself at the top when he’s pretty clearly, at best, of average intelligence. He’s strangely street smart given his affluent background. He has a primitive acumen for being a predator. A good gut feel for manipulation of people who he shares almost nothing in common with.

    So I don’t think he’s any more racist than I am. I think he’s incredibly delusional and mentally ill. I also think he’s borderline genius at manipulation, so any notion that he’s not fully aware that he courts the dumbest white nationalists and plays to them is silliness. He knows exactly what he’s doing. I don’t think he’s anti-Semitic, but he doesn’t do them any favors as far as chilling his base out and pointing out their contributions to America and the world, because that would cost him, and it’s always about him.

    He does populism better than anyone I’ve ever seen. It’s amazing to become the champion to poor dumb white trash given the giant silver spoon he was born with. I would have thought it undoable if I didn’t watch him do it. And he’s done it through racism and fear. At the root of their love for him, it’s always that.

    Make America Great again is simply make America white again and anyone smart knows this. Its genius because it sounds harmless. It’s so easy to defend. Who doesn’t want America to be great? Where he’s dangerous is that he’s emboldened a bunch of dumb white people who would have never been great in any America, under any circumstance, even when the deck was stacked in their favor. The type of white people who think the white kid would win the science fair if not for all the Jews and Asian kids being given some leg up. That’s a more dangerous racism. I’d blindly bet against the white kid even in a controlled environment. I’d occasionally lose, it isn’t the 100m dash, but I’d win most of the time. To me that’s the difference between casual racism and white supremacy. I’d take the Jewish kid. I think I’m likely smarter than the average Jew, but I’m not of the mind I’m taking down the top % in any intellectual pursuit anymore than I ever looked at a black team I was playing against and assumed I was likely faster.

    So it isn’t really his personal beliefs that scare me. He’s a garden variety racist in the way most are if being honest. It’s his courting of some incredibly dumb people and his personal narcissism that may possibly lead to serious trouble. Thinking you’re the smartest person in the room when you’re clearly not and you’re in charge of the worlds largest superpower is a precarious spot. That’s the dangerous part of Trump. That he fires up the poor white trash is temporarily problematic, but we were already an incredibly divided country anyway. If he makes dumb white people feel their fail lives are someone else’s fault, I see little distinction between that and some black activist who convinces the black community they are not largely causing their own problems. People reside in trailer parks and the hood for mostly the same reasons. Bad choices and generational family dysfunction.

    He’s way more divisive than an Obama, and I find those comparisons silly. He’s more divisive simply because poor white working class people were pretty complacent to their plight. More depressed than angry. He gets them angry. Black people were already angry.

    If he was giving tough love to everyone, I’d almost admire him. That would be leadership. That’s where I can’t understand the love he gets from chamber of commerce Republicans beyond tax cuts. He’s a white Sharpton or community activist. He has the same message to a different audience. He’s simply telling white people it isn’t the four kids by three dads and abandoning your kids and neck tattoos that’s causing the problem, it’s the system thats rigged and the Mexicans and whatever when that’s rarely the cause. That’s not leadership. It’s the same message the other race provocateurs preach. If he was yelling unpleasant truths in a constructive manner some of what he does would be productive rather than divisive.

    It’s a shame he’s so mentally ill. We needed someone like him as a country in many ways, the guy who isn’t afraid to say anything, just not one with his obvious shortcomings.

     
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      simply1: A+
      
      tony bagadonuts: A+ except for the Make America White again stuff so A overall.

  20. #120
    Diamond Tellafriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    thinking a race of people are genetically inferior, on the other hand, is the literal definition of racism. "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
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