So coronavirus is definitely going to kill a few of us.

[big dick]

Trump acted too late and these red state governors didn't act fast enough or reopened up too fast



Of course the protests will spread the virus.

[simpdog]

In that article they mention why black Americans are suffering disproportionately. It's not from protests.....

What Druff also fails to realize is the timeline. Floyd died on May 25th.

Let's say 1-2 weeks to see symptoms so protesters may see symptoms as early as June 1-June 8th. By June 18th we're not going to see a huge amount of protesters in hospitals/dying, and certainly Fauci wouldn't be on CNN immediately talking about how they are suffering if it literally was just starting to happen.

Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Everyone's bitching about the big spike in cases we've seen in June. Many have blamed it on the "reopening".

I think we have another factor that is being intentionally overlooked.

You cannot talk about the danger of reopening anymore without acknowledging that mass protests were also a horrible idea.

It was your point:
It also discusses the additional deaths in the black community, but somehow not a single word is written about the protests.

The article is talking stats and why the black community is disproportionately suffering from COVID. In a month or two sure there might be stats that the protests spread it around.

But for a June 18th article why should it mention the protests at all?

[Dan Druff]

Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Everyone's bitching about the big spike in cases we've seen in June. Many have blamed it on the "reopening".

I think we have another factor that is being intentionally overlooked.

You cannot talk about the danger of reopening anymore without acknowledging that mass protests were also a horrible idea.

It was your point:
It also discusses the additional deaths in the black community, but somehow not a single word is written about the protests.

The article is talking stats and why the black community is disproportionately suffering from COVID. In a month or two sure there might be stats that the protests spread it around.

But for a June 18th article why should it mention the protests at all?

Two reasons:

First off, it's not a mystery whether the protests will cause additional cases and deaths. It will. We've already seen evidence of that from other large outdoor parties which occurred in March before the shutdown.

Second, the article wasn't just about the black community. It was about people "ignoring the science" of COVID-19 spreading, and choosing to do what they want instead.

Wouldn't you say that going out into a crowd of 60,000 people packed into small spaces would qualify as "ignoring the science" of how the disease spreads?

[simpdog]

It was your point:
It also discusses the additional deaths in the black community, but somehow not a single word is written about the protests.

The article is talking stats and why the black community is disproportionately suffering from COVID. In a month or two sure there might be stats that the protests spread it around.

But for a June 18th article why should it mention the protests at all?

Two reasons:

First off, it's not a mystery whether the protests will cause additional cases and deaths. It will. We've already seen evidence of that from other large outdoor parties which occurred in March before the shutdown.

Second, the article wasn't just about the black community. It was about people "ignoring the science" of COVID-19 spreading, and choosing to do what they want instead.

Wouldn't you say that going out into a crowd of 60,000 people packed into small spaces would qualify as "ignoring the science" of how the disease spreads?

So should the article also mention Trump rallies then too? And how that might even out the proportions since Trump supporters trend Caucasian?

Every article should be 100 pages long and mention all the possibilities in the present and future?

[Dan Druff]

Two reasons:

First off, it's not a mystery whether the protests will cause additional cases and deaths. It will. We've already seen evidence of that from other large outdoor parties which occurred in March before the shutdown.

Second, the article wasn't just about the black community. It was about people "ignoring the science" of COVID-19 spreading, and choosing to do what they want instead.

Wouldn't you say that going out into a crowd of 60,000 people packed into small spaces would qualify as "ignoring the science" of how the disease spreads?

So should the article also mention Trump rallies then too? And how that might even out the proportions since Trump supporters trend Caucasian?

Every article should be 100 pages long and mention all the possibilities in the present and future?

All the possibilities?

We just had massive left-wing rallies and protests THIS MONTH which dwarfed any get-together since the shutdowns began.

They should also mention the people on the right engaging in ill-advised get-togethers or rallies of large size.

There's no point writing an article about people "ignoring science" of COVID-19 spreading unless you're willing to discuss all of the major instances of this.

[BCR]

Two reasons:

First off, it's not a mystery whether the protests will cause additional cases and deaths. It will. We've already seen evidence of that from other large outdoor parties which occurred in March before the shutdown.

Second, the article wasn't just about the black community. It was about people "ignoring the science" of COVID-19 spreading, and choosing to do what they want instead.

Wouldn't you say that going out into a crowd of 60,000 people packed into small spaces would qualify as "ignoring the science" of how the disease spreads?

So should the article also mention Trump rallies then too? And how that might even out the proportions since Trump supporters trend Caucasian?

Every article should be 100 pages long and mention all the possibilities in the present and future?

If it was only one article, it wouldn’t be relevant. The thing is, CNN cheered on weeks of millions of people gathering with not a single negative word that I saw. They urged caution a few times, but they were acting as if the issue of BLM was a larger issue than millions of people running the streets immediately after being locked down with cases still very high.

It was a horrible crime, but the cop didn’t get acquitted. I found it hypocritical that a week earlier we were acting like someone who didn’t want to cancel everything had no regard for human life, yet this was fine.

I understood when it was happening in Minneapolis. It’s enraging, and them losing their shit there was understandable, but weeks of nonsense in every city, and tens of thousands in Central London, that was pure fucking insanity. They had a higher per capita death rate than we did. It’s maybe 20 men a year brutally murders which is 20 too many, but protesting in London?

Fucking China probably takes a few hundred dissidents out and puts a bullet in their head for disobeying the government weekly and they’re protesting police violence in America? People lost their collective shit.

I’d rather go to a protest outside than any rally indoor, but I’m back at the gym and that’s probably more dangerous than either tbh, so if these Trump loons want to go worship trump, so be it. The left media did surrender the high ground on this issue as far as I’m concerned

I agree we wouldn’t have saw death from rallies yet, but some of the uptick in cases are likely related. Not a major uptick as the places with problems right now weren’t big rally points. It’s hitting Florida and Az and kind of rural areas. But a small fraction from the protests will add more deaths than the guy who died on the street that day. More likely more deaths than have been killed by cops in the last decade. It’s fine if they wanted to frame it as people sacrificing their health and even death because they thought it was important enough. They didn’t though. They just acted like for some reason the protestors wouldn’t spread it despite being a mass of humanity. It was surreal.and you aren’t just risking yourself.

The civil unrest made any future closure impossible unless it was so had people basically want everything to be closed. Like 10k deaths a day level. I think it would have to be that level to close again en masse.

[sonatine]

So should the article also mention Trump rallies then too? And how that might even out the proportions since Trump supporters trend Caucasian?

Every article should be 100 pages long and mention all the possibilities in the present and future?

If it was only one article, it wouldn’t be relevant. The thing is, CNN cheered on weeks of millions of people gathering with not a single negative word that I saw. They urged caution a few times, but they were acting as if the issue of BLM was a larger issue than millions of people running the streets immediately after being locked down with cases still very high.

It was a horrible crime, but the cop didn’t get acquitted. I found it hypocritical that a week earlier we were acting like someone who didn’t want to cancel everything had no regard for human life, yet this was fine.

I understood when it was happening in Minneapolis. It’s enraging, and them losing their shit there was understandable, but weeks of nonsense in every city, and tens of thousands in Central London, that was pure fucking insanity. They had a higher per capita death rate than we did. It’s maybe 20 men a year brutally murders which is 20 too many, but protesting in London?

Fucking China probably takes a few hundred dissidents out and puts a bullet in their head for disobeying the government weekly and they’re protesting police violence in America? People lost their collective shit.

I’d rather go to a protest outside than any rally indoor, but I’m back at the gym and that’s probably more dangerous than either tbh, so if these Trump loons want to go worship trump, so be it. The left media did surrender the high ground on this issue as far as I’m concerned

I agree we wouldn’t have saw death from rallies yet, but some of the uptick in cases are likely related. Not a major uptick as the places with problems right now weren’t big rally points. It’s hitting Florida and Az and kind of rural areas. But a small fraction from the protests will add more deaths than the guy who died on the street that day. More likely more deaths than have been killed by cops in the last decade. It’s fine if they wanted to frame it as people sacrificing their health and even death because they thought it was important enough. They didn’t though. They just acted like for some reason the protestors wouldn’t spread it despite being a mass of humanity. It was surreal.and you aren’t just risking yourself.

The civil unrest made any future closure impossible unless it was so had people basically want everything to be closed. Like 10k deaths a day level. I think it would have to be that level to close again en masse.

i keep seeing people make this equivalence argument about trump rallies / blm marches. there really isnt one.

marches tend to be younger, healthier people, outdoors, with wind circulating in clean air and whisking away infected air.

political rallies tend to be indoors, with recycled air being pushed around slowly if at all and everyone packed together, immobile.

beyond which of course, one should touch on the need for white people march in solidarity with black people against death squads murdering them in their own neighborhoods. that was a moral imperative, more so considering the lack of viable transmission vectors for c19 in those circumstances.

[BCR]

If it was only one article, it wouldn’t be relevant. The thing is, CNN cheered on weeks of millions of people gathering with not a single negative word that I saw. They urged caution a few times, but they were acting as if the issue of BLM was a larger issue than millions of people running the streets immediately after being locked down with cases still very high.

It was a horrible crime, but the cop didn’t get acquitted. I found it hypocritical that a week earlier we were acting like someone who didn’t want to cancel everything had no regard for human life, yet this was fine.

I understood when it was happening in Minneapolis. It’s enraging, and them losing their shit there was understandable, but weeks of nonsense in every city, and tens of thousands in Central London, that was pure fucking insanity. They had a higher per capita death rate than we did. It’s maybe 20 men a year brutally murders which is 20 too many, but protesting in London?

Fucking China probably takes a few hundred dissidents out and puts a bullet in their head for disobeying the government weekly and they’re protesting police violence in America? People lost their collective shit.

I’d rather go to a protest outside than any rally indoor, but I’m back at the gym and that’s probably more dangerous than either tbh, so if these Trump loons want to go worship trump, so be it. The left media did surrender the high ground on this issue as far as I’m concerned

I agree we wouldn’t have saw death from rallies yet, but some of the uptick in cases are likely related. Not a major uptick as the places with problems right now weren’t big rally points. It’s hitting Florida and Az and kind of rural areas. But a small fraction from the protests will add more deaths than the guy who died on the street that day. More likely more deaths than have been killed by cops in the last decade. It’s fine if they wanted to frame it as people sacrificing their health and even death because they thought it was important enough. They didn’t though. They just acted like for some reason the protestors wouldn’t spread it despite being a mass of humanity. It was surreal.and you aren’t just risking yourself.

The civil unrest made any future closure impossible unless it was so had people basically want everything to be closed. Like 10k deaths a day level. I think it would have to be that level to close again en masse.

i keep seeing people make this equivalence argument about trump rallies / blm marches. there really isnt one.

marches tend to be younger, healthier people, outdoors, with wind circulating in clean air and whisking away infected air.

political rallies tend to be indoors, with recycled air being pushed around slowly if at all and everyone packed together, immobile.

beyond which of course, one should touch on the need for white people march in solidarity with black people against death squads murdering them in their own neighborhoods. that was a moral imperative, more so considering the lack of viable transmission vectors for c19 in those circumstances.

Weren’t you putting your mail under some infared light? I mean, yea the protestors themselves won’t die, but it isn’t a non infectious virus.

My issues with the protests in general, at the level they occurred, are just an extension of my distaste of how the last primary season went down. A true class struggle addressing the real problems that plague the economy and the corruption and true problems of which poverty and violence are simply a byproduct of, that would be worth any illness imo.

Not this shit where we are arguing about the guy from CrossFit being an ass and what guy said the wrong thing in 1994.

It’s right for everyone to be enraged with what happened to George Floyd. That said, my heart didn’t warm watching a bunch of white kids marching arm in arm to further one specific agenda when that group hasn’t been down for anything that isn’t always focused solely on their plight, not a class struggle. I feel like the bad guys keep winning because we focus on those rather irrelevant symptoms in the big picture while never addressing the disease which causes all of it.

[TheXFactor]

How many people will get infected at the Trump rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma?

[Sanlmar]

i keep seeing people make this equivalence argument about trump rallies / blm marches. there really isnt one.

marches tend to be younger, healthier people, outdoors, with wind circulating in clean air and whisking away infected air.

political rallies tend to be indoors, with recycled air being pushed around slowly if at all and everyone packed together, immobile.

beyond which of course, one should touch on the need for white people march in solidarity with black people against death squads murdering them in their own neighborhoods. that was a moral imperative, more so considering the lack of viable transmission vectors for c19 in those circumstances.

Weren’t you putting your mail under some infared light? I mean, yea the protestors themselves won’t die, but it isn’t a non infectious virus.

My issues with the protests in general, at the level they occurred, are just an extension of my distaste of how the last primary season went down. A true class struggle addressing the real problems that plague the economy and the corruption and true problems of which poverty and violence are simply a byproduct of, that would be worth any illness imo.

Not this shit where we are arguing about the guy from CrossFit being an ass and what guy said the wrong thing in 1994.

It’s right for everyone to be enraged with what happened to George Floyd. That said, my heart didn’t warm watching a bunch of white kids marching arm in arm to further one specific agenda when that group hasn’t been down for anything that isn’t always focused solely on their plight, not a class struggle. I feel like the bad guys keep winning because we focus on those rather irrelevant symptoms in the big picture while never addressing the disease which causes all of it.

Love the introspection, as always.

Remember this? Brando

Hey Johnny, What Are You Rebelling Against?

What ya got?

The populace is divided and angry. Druff’s boy is gasoline. It’s like the 60’s youth culture. They were always looking for some cause to march for.

There is plenty more where BLM came from. There will be a protest for your favorite cause soon. Busting the public’s cherry with riots and protests is just a start.

You’ll get your class struggle eventually.

I predicted pitchforks the day of Trumps election here. I’ll have to look.

[Sanlmar]

Sonatine just happened to be holding his mail while he was using his light box for seasonal depression.

and by season I mean Basketball season.

He’s gonna need it again soon.

[sonatine]

that seemed like an oddly defensive response to me pointing out that the infection threat at an outdoor march is totally different than the infection threat in an auditorium.

[BCR]

that seemed like an oddly defensive response to me pointing out that the infection threat at an outdoor march is totally different than the infection threat in an auditorium.

It certainly wasn’t intended to be. I just meant you more than anyone know this thing is infectious as hell. Outdoors beats indoors all day every day. I still don’t believe millions of people can gather and not have any spread. Heavy exhaling of air is where major issues happen. Singing and more intense exercising.

That’s far worse indoors where it lingers. but people screaming all day next to each other, and into people’s literal faces. inside or out, that has to have ramifications.

[Dan Druff]

I love this outdoor-versus-indoors rationalization.

As if it wasn't proven during March that people who attended outdoor beach parties and other stuff like that ended up with COVID-19.

In fact, remember that gay guy who was in the news briefly a few weeks ago because he posted a before-and-after picture of himself regarding COVID? He revealed that he got the disease in March when he went to a beach party in Miami, and stated that many others at the party also came down with it.

Those beach parties were nowhere near the size of some of these protests and rallies, nor were people likely packed together as closely.

If you think that 60,000 people cramming together outdoors is safe, we should immediately restart baseball (at least in non-domed stadiums), and Coachella should uncancel 2020.

There's a reason we are NOT doing these things. It's because top scientists have stated it is VERY UNSAFE for a huge crowd of people to get together and pack in close to one another.

There's no getting around that, and there's no "but Trump's thing is worse", because this isn't a competition for better or worse.

It's the fact that the left and the mainstream media already committed to the belief that these protests and rallies were fine, and in fact encouraged attendance. Once you take that position, you lose the ability to criticize other large gatherings.

If you take the "But this one was important" position, you're essentially signing off on the belief that freedom of assembly depends upon the level of its subjective "importance". And if you really believe that, you might as well just come forward and say we should trash the First Amendment.

At least Republicans have been consistent in pushing for reopening and fewer restrictions. The left shamed anyone who even suggested such a thing, then suddenly they were all for the 60,000+ packed-in protests all over the country, and then they went right back to shaming reopening and people getting together.

It's okay, sonatine. You can admit that there is a ton of hypocrisy on the left. That's what Sam Harris did in his June 7 podcast. He made no excuses for Trump, bashed Republicans hard, but also stated that the left has been acting irrationally through a lot of this, and has lost credibility somewhat.

[Dan Druff]

Is a protest about police brutality important? Yes.

But here are a bunch of things which are more important than attending any social protest:

- Being with loved ones as they are in their final days while dying of COVID-19

- Being able to visit with family and close friends

- Keeping unemployment far below 30%

- Being able to visit the dentist

- Being able to have necessary surgery or medical tests

- Avoiding the destruction of a number of long-running big businesses

- Not having a staggering number of small businesses failing

- Not entering an economic depression

- People having the ability to take vacations

- Keeping children in school

- Not having to spend trillions of dollars of government money to keep everyone fed

- Not causing mass depression and social despair from isolation


Despite all of the above consequences of a shutdown, we did it anyway -- for months. Suddenly all of that sacrifice is rendered meaningless, because apparently protests about cops are more important than everything listed above.

Give me a fucking break.

The left can absolutely never bitch again about reopening or rallies.

[simpdog]

I love this outdoor-versus-indoors rationalization.

As if it wasn't proven during March that people who attended outdoor beach parties and other stuff like that ended up with COVID-19.

In fact, remember that gay guy who was in the news briefly a few weeks ago because he posted a before-and-after picture of himself regarding COVID? He revealed that he got the disease in March when he went to a beach party in Miami, and stated that many others at the party also came down with it.

Those beach parties were nowhere near the size of some of these protests and rallies, nor were people likely packed together as closely.

If you think that 60,000 people cramming together outdoors is safe, we should immediately restart baseball (at least in non-domed stadiums), and Coachella should uncancel 2020.

There's a reason we are NOT doing these things. It's because top scientists have stated it is VERY UNSAFE for a huge crowd of people to get together and pack in close to one another.

There's no getting around that, and there's no "but Trump's thing is worse", because this isn't a competition for better or worse.

It's the fact that the left and the mainstream media already committed to the belief that these protests and rallies were fine, and in fact encouraged attendance. Once you take that position, you lose the ability to criticize other large gatherings.

If you take the "But this one was important" position, you're essentially signing off on the belief that freedom of assembly depends upon the level of its subjective "importance". And if you really believe that, you might as well just come forward and say we should trash the First Amendment.

At least Republicans have been consistent in pushing for reopening and fewer restrictions. The left shamed anyone who even suggested such a thing, then suddenly they were all for the 60,000+ packed-in protests all over the country, and then they went right back to shaming reopening and people getting together.

It's okay, sonatine. You can admit that there is a ton of hypocrisy on the left. That's what Sam Harris did in his June 7 podcast. He made no excuses for Trump, bashed Republicans hard, but also stated that the left has been acting irrationally through a lot of this, and has lost credibility somewhat.

I don't think anyone is mentioning that 60,000+ packed areas are safe indoors or outdoors.

More safe than indoors? Hell yes.

[Dan Druff]

That's my problem.

"Nobody is mentioning" the 60,000+ rallies in a negative light. Well, nobody in the mainstream media, at least.

Once again, this isn't a competition as to which rallies are worse. If the 60,000+ person police brutality protests were likely to further spread COVID-19, and if the media did not call that out (and continues to avoid the topic), they not doing their jobs properly.

If they then go forward to write articles about Republicans acting recklessly in public regarding COVID-19, they're huge hypocrites who shouldn't be ever taken seriously again.

I don't see what you are having such a hard time processing this.

[Dan Druff]

Let's put it a different way.

You guys all remember my activism regarding the AP and UB cheating scandals.

Say that when the Mike Postle thing went down last year, I decided to defend Postle and tell everyone it's no big deal. What if I said something like, "Even if Postle cheated, it was on a much smaller scale than what Russ Hamilton did, and cheating goes on in poker all the time, so cut the guy some slack!"

You would probably say, "Todd, you have zero consistency in your morals, and I can't believe I ever took any of your anti-cheating rants seriously. Fuck off, and I'm never listening to a word you say about poker cheating ever again."

And you'd be right.

Same thing here. If you're going to spend months shaming people about getting together in dangerous COVID-19 spread situtaions, then suddenly be okay with a massive number people getting together for a cause you like, then suddenly NOT be okay with other people getting together for a cause you don't like, then you have zero credibility.

The mainstream media has been doing exactly this.

[Walter Sobchak]

How many people will get infected at the Trump rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma?

Hopefully all of them, including the speaker.

[duped_samaritan]

Protesting because you're unhappy with the pandemic situation is just not the same as protesting systemic racism and police abusing their power.

I realize you're one of the few that take the pandemic seriously but not the BLM movement, but really there are tons of better options out there if you want to dunk on cnn.