What is the BB flatting with on the flop for a mere 1500?Originally Posted by sonatine
This is the only hand he's posted which isn't a complete disaster. I'm assuming the SB is the maniac here (he's not clear, but that's what it seems.)
When the maniac fires out on a board like Q24 and you have KQ, you need to kick it up, as the maniac will pay you off with less. The BB just calling on the flop means he's probably behind, and you want to charge him for it.
When the BB flats the 7k on the turn, then you have to consider whether he's calling that much off with worse than your QK (though I don't know the BB's stack size here, which is important), and it's actually a tough decision on what to do. Much of this is player dependent -- whether you think the BB is the type who would still flat this much with a better hand, and how much of a chance he's flatting with a worse hand or a draw. Much of this is also stack size dependent.
In this case, OSA made the right fold, as the BB was flatting with a set, and the SB (maniac?) had shit.
You're missing the exact reason *not* to bump it up:
the BB flatting the flop bet from SB.
If he was HU with maniac, cool. But exactly what hand do you think the BB is flatting with? The instinct to throw more chips into that situation is why tournaments are profitable for people who dont throw more chips into that situation.
Could be anything, including a pair, open-ended draw, gutshot-draw....
If you play scared poker because the BB flats a small bet on the flop when you hold top pair/good kicker against a maniac leading out, then you are either going to get run over or you're going to whine after the BB spikes his weird gutshot or 2-pair on the turn.
The presence of the maniac (and his leading out) is what changes the hand entirely from the standard.
The good thing about OSA's raise is that it showed the BB had a strong enough hand to call, so it probably rules out a gutshot draw or worse than top pair. So when the maniac shoved the turn and the BB called, it was an easier (but not totally obvious) fold.
My thought in this spot (on the flop) is, "At the moment I probably have the best hand, and I want the BB out so the maniac can stack off against me. If either has a monster, then so be it."
For just 3k more, OSA got valuable information which allowed him to make a correct fold.
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