Police officer grabs female high school student out of desk & slams her to ground -- justified?

[jsearles22]

Let me be clear in that AGAIN I don't think the cop handled it perfectly, and I think it's very possible that the guy is an asshole and has a history of overusing force.

I don't think it's a shame that he got fired if that's the case. In fact, it's a good thing.

But it's also not a shame what happened here to this girl. Unless she was seriously mentally disturbed, she deserved it. And if she was seriously mentally disturbed, then the fault is with school administrators for putting her in this class.

You've said multiple times he didn't act correctly, yet you continue to vehemently defend his actions point by point, screenshot by screenshot. So maybe clarify what you think he should have done differently and not highlight what you felt he did appropriately?

[Dan Druff]

The girl needed to be forcibly removed. I think most people here agree with that. So that's the physical confrontation. It had to occur, and it was the girl's fault.

She wasn't just "sitting at a desk". She had disrupted class, would not leave when told to do so by the teacher, and also refused when the campus police officer asked her to leave. I don't believe there is any dispute regarding these accounts of the situation.

If you just came up to me randomly and tried to lift me out of my seat (say, if I was sitting at a poker table), of course I would fight you. Because you would have no reason or right to remove me, nor would you have any authority to do so. You would just be some asshole attacking me for no reason.

In this case, the girl knew exactly why the officer was picking her up out of her seat, and she immediately attempted to fight him.

Watch the video again and you will see. I feel like taking screen shots to prove this.

Forcibly removed does not = violence. They seem to go hand in hand for you... This is a school not a god damn penitentiary. If a kid doesn't want to get up and leave you do not treat them like a 25 year old criminal... It's a fucking child Druff. I don't care if he has to stand there for 2 hours until she gets up and leaves or if they have to call the parents etc etc etc... you simply don't beat the shit out of a child... She was acting like bratty teenager at school. She's terrible, but that doesn't warrant an ass whopping from someone 3 times your size and 3 times your age.

I don't see a 16-year-old as a child.

Not quite an adult yet, but definitely more adult-like than child-like, and she definitely should know better than to do something like this.

This isn't like it involved an 8-year-old, where they both lack comprehension of responsibility and are small enough to simply be lifted out of their desk without any harm if they were to cause such a disturbance.

When it comes to criminal or disruptive behavior, I see little difference between a 16-year-old and 18-year-old.

When I was 16, I sure as hell knew that this type of shit wouldn't fly, and that I would suffer serious consequences for it. So did you. So does everyone.

If you were 16 and doing this, would you have fully expected that an adult -- whether it be a police officer or school administrator -- would physically force you to leave? I bet you would have.

And no, she shouldn't have been left at her desk just to be talked out of it. This isn't a situation where you have to carefully negotiate with a hostage-taker or someone about to commit suicide. When someone plants themselves where they are not supposed to be, and will not heed police orders to move, they need to be forcibly removed. Doesn't matter what age they are.

[jsearles22]

Why is just about nobody exploring the possibility that both people in this situation are terrible?

Because it's not national news that a 14 year old teenager is bratty. But it is news, for obvious reasons, when a cop used excessive force and against a child nonetheless

[Dan Druff]

Let me be clear in that AGAIN I don't think the cop handled it perfectly, and I think it's very possible that the guy is an asshole and has a history of overusing force.

I don't think it's a shame that he got fired if that's the case. In fact, it's a good thing.

But it's also not a shame what happened here to this girl. Unless she was seriously mentally disturbed, she deserved it. And if she was seriously mentally disturbed, then the fault is with school administrators for putting her in this class.

You've said multiple times he didn't act correctly, yet you continue to vehemently defend his actions point by point, screenshot by screenshot. So maybe clarify what you think he should have done differently and not highlight what you felt he did appropriately?

Because there's varying degrees of "not acting correctly".

If he shot her, whacked her with his baton, or punched her, I would put all of those things as "clearly excessive force" and say that he was completely out of line.

In this case, he did none of those things. I feel he erred in both his lifting of her from the desk (pulling her out, pushing her to the wall, and cuffing her would have been the right play), as well as throwing her to the other side of the room when she tried to kick him (he should have tried to grab her feet and wrestle her down to cuff her). So yes, he was too forceful, but not to such an extent where I find it outrageous.

If the guy really does have a history of excessive force, then this is a "straw broke the camel's back" situation and he should indeed be fired.

But I'm saying that his excessive force wasn't excessive enough to feel sorry for the "victim", given her actions in the entire situation.

[Lord of the Fraud]

OK does anybody know for sure how old the girl is?


Thought i read 14 but could be wrong.

[Pooh]

Only read first page but agree with Druff 100%. LOTF had the typical response of someone with an ugly smelly cock. If that makes me racist so be it. Wouldn't have a problem with black cop doing the same to a honky.

[Dan Druff]

Why is just about nobody exploring the possibility that both people in this situation are terrible?

Because it's not national news that a 14 year old teenager is bratty. But it is news, for obvious reasons, when a cop used excessive force and against a child nonetheless

Reputable (and often left-leaning, such as NY Times) outlets are reporting her as 16. So I think the 14-year-old thing is just LOL internets.

So, no, she's not a child.

In fact, in many states this "child" would be legally allowed to have sex with you and your now-departed abs.

[jsearles22]

I'll just mention to you that the floor is a weapon. I don't expect you to have known that. An 8ft drop would have killed her, a 2 ft drop with downward force is enough to do great bodily harm to an unfit teenage girl. That's really the trifecta of breakable human body types.

I don't see any downward force. I see him lifting her off the desk and putting her on the floor. In fact, it looks like he's not even completely dropping her, but rather just putting her down quickly.

How come we haven't heard of any major or even medium-grade injuries if this force was so terrible?

Per her lawyers today (I'm sure you will cast this aside anyways so not sure why you asked for it):

"She is hurt and literally, this is someone who is physically in pain because of what she endured, as she literally flew across the classroom," attorney Todd Rutherford said.

He said the girl's arm is in a cast, she has a rug burn on her forehead and has pain in her neck and back. She was hospitalized Monday night and saw a doctor today, he said.

[Dan Druff]

I don't see any downward force. I see him lifting her off the desk and putting her on the floor. In fact, it looks like he's not even completely dropping her, but rather just putting her down quickly.

How come we haven't heard of any major or even medium-grade injuries if this force was so terrible?

Per her lawyers today (I'm sure you will cast this aside anyways so not sure why you asked for it):

"She is hurt and literally, this is someone who is physically in pain because of what she endured, as she literally flew across the classroom," attorney Todd Rutherford said.

He said the girl's arm is in a cast, she has a rug burn on her forehead and has pain in her neck and back. She was hospitalized Monday night and saw a doctor today, he said.

The bolded part is all you need to know.

She was initially reported by police to have had no injuries, which is odd because they will usually report known injuries in situations like this, if only to defend themselves and their use of force.

The fact that the lawyer is talking about "a rug burn on her forehead" should be proof positive that the injuries weren't at all serious.

They probably found some quack doctor to claim that there was a tiny fracture.

[jsearles22]

Because it's not national news that a 14 year old teenager is bratty. But it is news, for obvious reasons, when a cop used excessive force and against a child nonetheless

Reputable (and often left-leaning, such as NY Times) outlets are reporting her as 16. So I think the 14-year-old thing is just LOL internets.

So, no, she's not a child.

In fact, in many states this "child" would be legally allowed to have sex with you and your now-departed abs.

You're grasping at straws. Rag dolling a 16 year old is ok but not a 14 year old? Regardless of size, sex, etc?

Kind of odd your go to "insult" involves having sex with a 16 year old. Pedophile much Druff?

[Lord of the Fraud]

Only read first page but agree with Druff 100%. LOTF had the typical response of someone with an ugly smelly cock. If that makes me racist so be it. Wouldn't have a problem with black cop doing the same to a honky.

Are you a Jew, Pooh?

joopoo

[jsearles22]

Per her lawyers today (I'm sure you will cast this aside anyways so not sure why you asked for it):

"She is hurt and literally, this is someone who is physically in pain because of what she endured, as she literally flew across the classroom," attorney Todd Rutherford said.

He said the girl's arm is in a cast, she has a rug burn on her forehead and has pain in her neck and back. She was hospitalized Monday night and saw a doctor today, he said.

The bolded part is all you need to know.

She was initially reported by police to have had no injuries, which is odd because they will usually report known injuries in situations like this, if only to defend themselves and their use of force.

The fact that the lawyer is talking about "a rug burn on her forehead" should be proof positive that the injuries weren't at all serious.

They probably found some quack doctor to claim that there was a tiny fracture.

Read what I wrote in parentheses and don't waste our time.......

[Dan Druff]

Reputable (and often left-leaning, such as NY Times) outlets are reporting her as 16. So I think the 14-year-old thing is just LOL internets.

So, no, she's not a child.

In fact, in many states this "child" would be legally allowed to have sex with you and your now-departed abs.

You're grasping at straws. Rag dolling a 16 year old is ok but not a 14 year old? Regardless of size, sex, etc?

Kind of odd your go to "insult" involves having sex with a 16 year old. Pedophile much Druff?

Nobody got rag dolled.

She is the size of an adult woman. Are you going to dispute that?

I corrected you because you talked about "a 14-year-old" when in reality she was 16, and in fact old enough to have the right of consensual sex in many states. Obviously not a child. So stop trying to manipulate the situation in order to make it look like the abuse of someone small and helpless.

[GrenadaRoger]

The girl needed to be forcibly removed. I think most people here agree with that. So that's the physical confrontation. It had to occur, and it was the girl's fault.

She wasn't just "sitting at a desk". She had disrupted class, would not leave when told to do so by the teacher, and also refused when the campus police officer asked her to leave. I don't believe there is any dispute regarding these accounts of the situation.

If you just came up to me randomly and tried to lift me out of my seat (say, if I was sitting at a poker table), of course I would fight you. Because you would have no reason or right to remove me, nor would you have any authority to do so. You would just be some asshole attacking me for no reason.

In this case, the girl knew exactly why the officer was picking her up out of her seat, and she immediately attempted to fight him.

Watch the video again and you will see. I feel like taking screen shots to prove this.

Forcibly removed does not = violence. They seem to go hand in hand for you... This is a school not a god damn penitentiary. If a kid doesn't want to get up and leave you do not treat them like a 25 year old criminal... It's a fucking child Druff. I don't care if he has to stand there for 2 hours until she gets up and leaves or if they have to call the parents etc etc etc... you simply don't beat the shit out of a child... She was acting like bratty teenager at school. She's terrible, but that doesn't warrant an ass whopping from someone 3 times your size and 3 times your age.

That person was a minor, under the age of 18, but one over the age of 7 and not mentally impaired...thus she knows right from wrong, what was expected of her and she was testing authority deliberately--for that she needs to be held accountable. I believe we agree on that?

If she does nothing to attack the officer, no beating is justified. But if she was resisting removal, she is responsible for the harm to anyone (including her) incidental to her being removed.

[Dan Druff]

Let's say this happened in 1988.

Take the exact scenario which occurred today.

Everyone would have lol'd about it for a day, the girl (who would have known she caused the problem) would have been suspended for awhile, and everyone would have moved on.

No national news story (even if it was somehow filmed), no hysteria, no crying for the "victim".

It's sad how society is actually regressing in some ways.

[herbertstemple]

She was asked to leave class, she didn't. Issue escalated. Cop came in. She still doesn't budge.

Is he supposed to just leave? Its his job to remove her. He removed her. He did his job.

[TheXFactor]

[dwai]

the problem i see here is this guy obviously looking for this type of altercation, and is probably not an isolated incident. and we do not need these hot head types "protecting and serving" their community.

[Dan Druff]

the problem i see here is this guy obviously looking for this type of altercation, and is probably not an isolated incident. and we do not need these hot head types "protecting and serving" their community.

That's fine. If he has a chronic problem with force, I fully agree he shouldn't be working in law enforcement.

I just don't feel sorry for the girl, and now she's all ready to exploit this for a big payout from the police department and school district.

[dwai]

the problem i see here is this guy obviously looking for this type of altercation, and is probably not an isolated incident. and we do not need these hot head types "protecting and serving" their community.

That's fine. If he has a chronic problem with force, I fully agree he shouldn't be working in law enforcement.

I just don't feel sorry for the girl, and now she's all ready to exploit this for a big payout from the police department and school district.

i don't feel sorry for the girl either, but cha ching, I'd sue them for everything they have.