The God Delusion and Religion

[Sitting Out]

Wow, what a vitriolic the subject religion is. More so than politics. There are two topics I never discuss with friends and this is one. It can be an interesting discussion if kept civil. The problem is that these beliefs can be very deep rooted giving rise to fanatical dogma. And so it goes.

Does it really matter Which religious belief one has??? After death, one of 2 things is going to happen. Either our awareness simply vanishes for eternity, both body and soul (so much for any religion), or your spirit must evolve into another form of some kind (highly unlikely to me that a particular religion plays any role in this either). For me, the religious debate is pretty much moot.

I was an agnostic for years until reports/studies of NDE's (Near Death Experiences) were published. (NDE can be experienced by someone who is clinically dead and then subsequently resuscitated. Some fascinating stories regarding them and the glimpses they give beyond our everyday experiences.) A good read on this is: "ABOUT THE CONTINUITY OF OUR CONSCIOUSNESS", http://www.nderf.org/vonlommel_consciousness.htm. Anyway, I'm comfortable believing that it doesn't matter, but it would be a cruel hoax for our creator to give us hope that there is something beyond this life and then abruptly turn the switch off at the end. What would be the point of that??

[Cat Out Of The Bag]

I have never understood people who are not willing just label themselves as people not believing something that is imaginary. You could be agnostic about the tooth fairy and wizards too i guess.

I think agnostics should just man up.

[JoyMillersMeatCurtains]

Nothing good ever comes out of discussing/posting about religion.

[tony bagadonuts]

I have never understood people who are not willing just label themselves as people not believing something that is imaginary. You could be agnostic about the tooth fairy and wizards too i guess.

I think agnostics should just man up.

Oh good, you're here.....lucky us.

[408Mike]

I have never understood people who are not willing just label themselves as people not believing something that is imaginary. You could be agnostic about the tooth fairy and wizards too i guess.

I think agnostics should just man up.

You can absolutely do that if you wish. Put your head in the sand, believe what you want. Your mind will rationalize your decision and there you go.

[408Mike]

It is my belief that religion was created to control peoples behavior, which isnt the worst thing in the world.

It is all utter bullshit though.

Religion as you see it today is, in many ways, used to control people but it certainly was not created with such purposes in mind. Worshiping the being who created you, showing love repect and adoration to your Heavenly Father, these sound like a way to control you? In what way? Where are the mysterious rules you just cannot bear to follow? Read the BIble you have much to learn.

[408Mike]

Nothing good ever comes out of discussing/posting about religion.

I didn't start the thread.

[Dan Druff]

First-world countries don't start religion-based wars anymore.

[408Mike]

Quoting Jesus in red might piss him off, devil colors and all..Nope it doesn't. Disrespecting His name just might, but I am not Him and cannot say.

I appreciate your long-winded response and respect your right to believing whatever you want. I just think it's stupid and a hindrance to humanity. 9/11 happened because some fools took the message of a book to heart much like you do. George W. Bush ended up rationalizing the Iraq War because God told him to. Let's say you have a son one day, and God speaks to you in your head to kill your son. Would you do it?
I wasn't sure how ignorant you really were, now I know. You aren't even capable of intelligent discourse whatsoever. You have unfounded untestable irrational beliefs NONE of which can withstand the slightest scrutiny and YET-here you are, attempting to justify why you believe them. I would say that is textbook IGNORANCE. Btw, if you think you hear God telling you to kill your son, ask that voice in your head is Jesus Christ the son of God? If the voice refuses to admit that he is, you first aren't hearing who you think you are, and second you have some major fucking problem to deal with.

Arguing with believers is kind of like arguing with a child about the existence of the tooth fairy. I'm glad that you r faith gives you tranquility but I don't think the millions of people slaughtered over it over the last thousand years would agree with you. You believe 100%, whoa. I can't definitively deny the existence of God but I also can't rule out the possibility that we are all programmed by a robot crap hiding deep in the rings of Saturn. You never know, bro.
I do know, YOU don't and you said as much yourself. FYI, I already said religion tends to be crap and that it is often used to control people and do ugly things like wars and massacres. Your balls are showing might I add.

Atheism doesn't really lead to wars, suppression of women/science/gays/progress, 9/11, abortion clinic bombings/shootings, Israel and Palestine conflicts, brainwashing children (aka Sunday school), Tim Tebow etc.
If you really think faith in God is causing wars you are totally missing the truth RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FUCKING EYES. Faith isn't causing anything, EVIL tyrannical MEN, HUMAN BEINGS, are using the faith of others to MANIPULATE them into doing horrible things. How is this hard to understand? If your rationalization is then "well just get rid of faith and problem solved!" you are really beyond slow. Think- in Africa today millions of kids are starving to death. You can't send food, the generals who control the food supply will just take it and do whatever with it. No religion there holmes, just tyrannical evil men. My point is this- religion is used because it is powerful and convenient BUT if people had no faith in God SOMETHING ELSE would be used to control them. Things like i dunno, food, money, sex, water etc. Am I really explaining this to a grown man....Fuck.

No one get hurt in the name of atheism
Ok your lack of grammar is hurting my brain. Do you mean "No one has ever been hurt in the name of atheism"? If so, you are correct technically, but with a small amount of logic you might realize how wrong you are. There would never be such a war or crusade, it would be called something totally different. You might hear something like apartheid or massacre, genocide perhaps. My point is, if there is killing en masse going on in the world, it's either in the name of religion or "other" and the "other" would be your "name of atheism".

I will pray for you kid. You remind me of me in many ways, back when I was much younger. Hope you enjoy your week and God Bless you.

[Suicide King]

It is my belief that religion was created to control peoples behavior, which isnt the worst thing in the world.

It is all utter bullshit though.

Religion as you see it today is, in many ways, used to control people but it certainly was not created with such purposes in mind. Worshiping the being who created you, showing love repect and adoration to your Heavenly Father, these sound like a way to control you? In what way? Where are the mysterious rules you just cannot bear to follow? Read the BIble you have much to learn.

Its been said that religion did bring the early nomadic tribes together and formed communities. It has served its initial purpose. We have outgrown it as a species. We dont need simple answers for complex questions anymore. We know why the tides comes in and out, and it's not because of god. For fucks sake the fact that the people who wrote the bible didnt know that eating bad seafood will get you sick proves the point. Instead of understanding sanitation they just accused shrimp of being an abomination. There are people blowing themselves up in the middle east for different interpretations of the same book, and if you think that's just a Muslim thing take a look at the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland. I read the bible, It's an archaic, and not particularly well written book that among good things also describes slaves and what extent it is okay to beat them, and gives the thumbs up to killing your children if they back talk, and stoning your wife if she isnt a virgin. time to move forward now.

[Dan Druff]

Impoverished, highly-religious small towns in the US have extremely low crime rates.

Compare those crime rates to less religious towns with a similar income level (and also relatively remote, taking the big city factor out), and you'll find an amazing difference.

Religious people get a bad rap for being intolerant and simple-minded, but religion can also serve as a basis for ethics and charitable behavior.

[Vwls]

Impoverished, highly-religious small towns in the US have extremely low crime rates.

Compare those crime rates to less religious towns with a similar income level (and also relatively remote, taking the big city factor out), and you'll find an amazing difference.

Religious people get a bad rap for being intolerant and simple-minded, but religion can also serve as a basis for ethics and charitable behavior.

Agree with this. I've seen a lot of bigotry and small mindedness among religious groups, but I've also seen extreme charity and kindness. There is something to be said for a world view that requires moral action.

[Suicide King]

Impoverished, highly-religious small towns in the US have extremely low crime rates.

Compare those crime rates to less religious towns with a similar income level (and also relatively remote, taking the big city factor out), and you'll find an amazing difference.

Religious people get a bad rap for being intolerant and simple-minded, but religion can also serve as a basis for ethics and charitable behavior.

everything is handled in house. no paper trail when shit goes down.

[NaturalBornHustler]

What an abortion of a thread.

Druff and Vwls finally saved the day.

[408Mike]

Impoverished, highly-religious small towns in the US have extremely low crime rates.

Compare those crime rates to less religious towns with a similar income level (and also relatively remote, taking the big city factor out), and you'll find an amazing difference.

Religious people get a bad rap for being intolerant and simple-minded, but religion can also serve as a basis for ethics and charitable behavior.

If there is no God, then there is no good and evil, and all morality then is simply subjective.

[Baron Von Strucker]

If there is no God, then there is no good and evil, and all morality then is simply subjective.

Ding

[Sitting Out]

If there is no God, then there is no good and evil, and all morality then is simply subjective.

very true. There's a line of thinking that evil and pain in the world is not only good, but necessary as counter intuitive this might seem. Basically, without pain and conflict, complacency would be the norm (and therefore we're all satisfied), and spiritual growth of the species wouldn't occur. We'd never push forward; all our needs would be satisfied, no life struggles, and our time from birth to death would be quite boring. Since we live in an imperfect world, religion steps in to guide the populations on what is right and wrong (i.e., ethical behavior so we can coexist together.) If there was one religion for the whole world, it might work, but having more than one is like having republicans and democrats trying to rule the same population. Maybe a bad analogy, but you get the point.

[408Mike]

If there is no God, then there is no good and evil, and all morality then is simply subjective.

Ding

[408Mike]

If there is no God, then there is no good and evil, and all morality then is simply subjective.

very true. There's a line of thinking that evil and pain in the world is not only good, but necessary as counter intuitive this might seem. Basically, without pain and conflict, complacency would be the norm (and therefore we're all satisfied), and spiritual growth of the species wouldn't occur. We'd never push forward; all our needs would be satisfied, no life struggles, and our time from birth to death would be quite boring. Since we live in an imperfect world, religion steps in to guide the populations on what is right and wrong (i.e., ethical behavior so we can coexist together.) If there was one religion for the whole world, it might work, but having more than one is like having republicans and democrats trying to rule the same population. Maybe a bad analogy, but you get the point.

Great post and I agree. Also if there were but one unifying religion for all of mankind many problems in the world would be solved overnight. No not all of the worlds problems but we could certainly put a LOT of differences between us to rest. Since it seems very obvious to be the intelligent thing to do, WHO is it that is keeping us all divided in the first place? I have my own answer of course, but it would be interesting to see what other people think.

[Vwls]

There will never be a way to determine if God is real or imagined. Those who "know" one way or the other have to step out in faith. There could be a Creator, or the universe could be completely accidental. Whatever you choose to believe is fine with me, and I'll never demand that you abandon your way of seeing things. But I will say this: the idea that there was a "first first" is both logical and plausible. Consider the extreme complexity of human reproduction... of the makeup of the even smallest parts of the human body. Study something like the brain or the human eye. Consider if you will the strategic balance of life, and each part that contributes to a given ecosystem. Every tiny detail is necessary for function - is it all by chance? If you were to throw together the building blocks for life into a box, I guarantee that you could shake it six million times and pour out its contents, and it would never have the perfect conglomeration needed to make it LIVE and WORK. This suggests some sort of intelligent design.

Now you may be of the opinion that intelligent design existed, but is uninvolved at this juncture. That would certainly explain all the tragedy and happenstance of life today. I think this argument is more logically valid than one that denies any design or greater intention was involved. But it still can be argued that a greater entity exists, and no one can prove otherwise. Until such a time as it is proveable, I will continue to question and imagine. I'm fairly sure that is the beauty of the human mind. That we can question and rely on critical thinking.