Better Call Saul

[Jayjami]

Like this is exactly what bothered me:

I dont buy for a second that Chuck would not have sat down Jimmie a long time ago and said "look, this is a top law firm, you have a toy diploma. Im here for you, but you have a lot to prove before you get a seat at this table." There is no universe where Chuck doesnt have that conversation with Jimmie. And when I discussed it with a lawyer friend today, they said that had bothered them from the second Jimmie showed up with his diploma. By the time you get a law degree, even a borderline fake one, you know youre not going to be batting with the big boys, for all the reasons Chuck outlined in his lecture to Jimmie last night.

I get that for the purposes of dramatic narrative, that couldnt happen. But it took me out of the moment watching it play out, nerds.

First, there is no such thing as a borderline a fake law degree. If you pass the bar you are a lawyer, period. Are you competent? Hell no. Here is what people don't understand: law school teaches you to pass the bar, not how to be a good lawyer. Most people go to work for a firm (or the DA's office) so they can get the requisite experience. Why go to Harvard? Much better job opportunities when you graduate, but after about 5 years of practice, nobody gives a shit where you went to law school (except maybe Ivy League douchebags). Firms want to know 2 things: how much money can you make us and will you fit in?

Jimmy is a maverick and many of the best lawyers are as well. That is why most of us are solo practitioners or work in small firms once we get that experience under our belts

[sonatine]

Oh.

[nunbeater]

I feel that.

Thing is, that wouldn't crush moral Jimmy's spirit.

The show is Breaking Bad:Saul and to a lesser degree Breaking Bad:Mike, and we're now taking the circular journey with them and how they broke bad. Basically the only twist is Saul is kind of born again moral. He was once Slippin Jimmy, then he finds inspiration in his brother, and when this show picks up we find a generally moral Jimmy trying to fight the good fight and wonder how he gets from A to B, because we already know what B is. Mike has the exact same arc. Like Slippin Jimmy, he was no angel, but what turns him from shady shake-down cop to killer? That's basically the show, same as BB.

You get the first glimpse with the crazy lady telling Saul he's the type of lawyer guilty people hire. But she's nuts, and part of him knows it's true and shes recognizing that he's a fellow hustler, but he's able to shake it off and generally do the right thing. He needs something to really skew his world, and his brother's approval is about the only thing we see him really care about, thus it has to be his betrayal to complete the loop.
For Mike, he got his son whacked.

Gilligan clearly wants to pound into our heads that anyone can be any of these guys with a bad break. For Walt-terminal cancer, for Mike- causing son's death, for Jimmy- his brother's betrayal. His brother sitting him down and giving him a pragmatic talk about the relative value of his degree wouldn't complete Gilligan's formulaic loop even if it's way more plausible. He wrote himself into a corner and you either abandon the formula or its the brother that has to fuck him.

My guess is that Gilligan is now quite rich, and he isn't going to have some junior writer freestyling with his characters, but as long as they keep it formulaic, he can simply peruse and rubberstamp the script. He doesn't have to live the show. It's as can't miss of a hit as possible with how good the actors are.

Yes, and when Jimmy pulls his first Saul move and leaves Chuck to fend for himself it hurts him more than it hurts Chuck. From the first episode I was like who the hell is Chuck and why have I never heard of him? Now we know.

In Chuck's world there is never a pragmatic talk with Jimmy. He greatly offended him by thinking he could be a lawyer like his big brother; now that cold hard reality has zapped him in the ass we get to see Saul emerge. Maybe it is a formula but the execution is fucking perfect.

[BCR]

I wasn't doing a thesis or anything, I just read the exchanges with Sonatine/others and riffed out some thoughts about why they might be doing it that way that pop into my head while watching. I may be way the fuck off.

His lady friend lawyer has to go. She seems genuinely loyal, but we know she isn't his partner in the future we know about. So she's either got to fuck him over and further his descent, or die. I don't think she can simply fade, she's too integral a character.

I kind of watched this show with the mindset of BB. If you already knew the ending, but still had to watch from beginning, all the curiousity is about how he gets from A to B.

So my thought the whole series is how does he go from this bumbling rookie lawyer to someone that is trusted by Gus Fring?

I actually thought they could have put this show on steroids early if they wanted to. When he almost got those twins killed in the desert and he's walking away, before he turned and argued their sentence down, I thought they were going to explain it all with one scene.

To me, the idea that they were going to let him walk away while they killed two kids was totally implausible. I thought it would have been interesting if Saul knew he wasn't walking away, made a calculation that there was nothing he could do to save their lives, and walked back, took the gun out of Tuco's hands, and did it himself. They would know he's never telling a soul then, and he'd be doing it out of respect to Tuco for insulting his grandmother. He's in.

That would be out of character as hell, but would explain how criminals came to trust him, how he ended up being the go to guy for cartels. The Saul we saw in BB didn't appear a killer, but he certainly was all about self-preservation, and that would have been a wild backstory that would had tied it all together. That's my 50 shades of saul fan fiction version. But that show ends in 2 seasons and isnt a character study. That's just an action show at that point.

[sonatine]

I get the feeling Blondie fucks her way into a partner position and that's pretty much the point where Jimmy says ok, so its just that sort of world, fuck it. Goodbye Jimmy, hello Saul, the ultimate chimp with a chainsaw.

Also remember that Saul is Mike's Joe, not Gus'... right? Gus never actually has anything to do with Saul that I can remember. Mike handles the money, Mike pays Saul, Saul pays BBfags.

[sonatine]

Also every time I remember that Saul ends up a manager of a Cinnabon, drinking himself to sleep at night watching his own commercials, I wilt with misery.

[nunbeater]

I get the feeling Blondie fucks her way into a partner position and that's pretty much the point where Jimmy says ok, so its just that sort of world, fuck it. Goodbye Jimmy, hello Saul, the ultimate chimp with a chainsaw.

Also remember that Saul is Mike's Joe, not Gus'... right? Gus never actually has anything to do with Saul that I can remember. Mike handles the money, Mike pays Saul, Saul pays BBfags.

Saul connected Walt and Gus. They don't really get into how they connected in BB that I can remember, but I thought they definitely had some business together off-screen. Hopefully we get to see more.

[sonatine]

I get the feeling Blondie fucks her way into a partner position and that's pretty much the point where Jimmy says ok, so its just that sort of world, fuck it. Goodbye Jimmy, hello Saul, the ultimate chimp with a chainsaw.

Also remember that Saul is Mike's Joe, not Gus'... right? Gus never actually has anything to do with Saul that I can remember. Mike handles the money, Mike pays Saul, Saul pays BBfags.

Saul connected Walt and Gus. They don't really get into how they connected in BB that I can remember, but I thought they definitely had some business together off-screen. Hopefully we get to see more.

Saul connected Walt and Gus, yes, but I assumed that Mike was the conduit for that. I just assumed Gus would want to avoid at all costs being seen around someone like Saul, who exists to serve the exact type of person Gus wanted to avoid being seen as at all costs. Like, Mike was how Gus navigated those waters without getting wet.

Again grain of salt that because maybe I forgot some scene with them together...

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

I get the feeling Blondie fucks her way into a partner position and that's pretty much the point where Jimmy says ok, so its just that sort of world, fuck it. Goodbye Jimmy, hello Saul, the ultimate chimp with a chainsaw.

Also remember that Saul is Mike's Joe, not Gus'... right? Gus never actually has anything to do with Saul that I can remember. Mike handles the money, Mike pays Saul, Saul pays BBfags.

Just watched the last episode. I thhink this, and also what BRC posted first about the Jimmy/Chuck exchange.



And as said before I dont think Chuck would have ever actually told Jimmy how he felt unless Jimmy brought it to his atttention, like he did at the end there. Just like Jimmy wouldn't have told Chuck hes actually fucking insane for thinking the electric waves were hurting him, unless his hand was forced aas it was at the end.

I never thought about where the girl ends up, but i like your theory. They can't kill her off because she's too important to the show. Unless it's an end of the series type thing. The only other alternative is her becomming partner and Jimmy just has to cut ties.


I thought we were going to see Gus this episode when they had th three security guys. Sadly it was some nerd Price I've never heard of. I even thought when I saw the old station wagon pull up 'oh man, nice, they gave him the same kind of geeky car, just multiple years earlier.

Very very curious to see how Gus gets involved.


This show is great already, and I am looking forward to seeing how they end up Breaking Bad.


Also very curious as to when he decides to officially change his name and move forward

The only thing I am a little disappointed in(at least afaik) is HHM is NOT ONCE referenced in BB, yet still the setting is in ABQ. They couldn've easily just brought it up once in BB, somehow, but to my knowledge Saul never mentioned it once ni five seasons of BB. But maybe that's why the name change. Fresh start. No memory of being Jimmy etc.

[ShadyJ]

If BB is a 10 out of 10 which it was. Then this show is like a 6. Its worth watching but you're not waiting to see next weeks episode like you were with BB and Vikings. On to Paris muthafuckas!

[sonatine]

FYI, Gus has not been scheduled to appear in the show yet. Giancarlo Esposito jokingly threatened to kill Gilligan's wife if he didnt get a part on it, but it hasnt been discussed in any official capacity.

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

oh nevermind then. I thought it was Saul, Mike and Gus.


How about Hank? Does he get involved at aall?

[sonatine]

Yeah its inevitable, they cant get to Cinnabon without broaching that topic and I think both Cranston and Paul have confirmed they have peripheral roles at some point.

Honestly I'm in no rush to see them because the series event horizon becomes a decidedly fixed distance once they appear.

[simpdog]

There has to be something fairly monumental for him to go from Jimmy to Saul. This is what I'm looking forward to, but hopefully not too soon.

Similarly it will be nice to see Walter/Jesse/Gus but let's not blow our load just yet....I'd prefer to have 3 seasons without them if you're looking at 4-5 seasons for Saul.

[nunbeater]

Saul connected Walt and Gus. They don't really get into how they connected in BB that I can remember, but I thought they definitely had some business together off-screen. Hopefully we get to see more.

Saul connected Walt and Gus, yes, but I assumed that Mike was the conduit for that. I just assumed Gus would want to avoid at all costs being seen around someone like Saul, who exists to serve the exact type of person Gus wanted to avoid being seen as at all costs. Like, Mike was how Gus navigated those waters without getting wet.

Again grain of salt that because maybe I forgot some scene with them together...

You make a good point; I don't recall if they ever showed it either. I do remember Saul getting pissed after Mike went off and threatened him with breaking his legs to find Jesse, at that point I just figured Mike knew where his bread was buttered and Saul was pissed because he got blindsided by Gus. Going to be very interesting to see how this shakes out.

[chinamaniac]

A gathering of angels appeared above my head
They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said
They said come sail away, come sail away
Come sail away with me

[Daly]

Stating the obvious here but it's not a coincidence that ith Saul and Mike have had run ins with Nacho. Whatever the season 2 plot is, Nacho will play a big part in it.

[Daly]

Let's start of season two by stating the obvious.

We absolutely do NOT need an hour long "Talking Saul".

Show is great.

[Daly]

AMC Sidebar: it was Valentine's Day last night and my wife ain't that girl to sit down and watch The Walking Dead.

You know what would be cool? Not running a "these are the 5 huge major plot points/events that you missed last night commercials during Saul. I mean seriously what the fuck with that

[limitles]

Haven't read anything here because I only checked the show out after realizing Odenkirk was involved and haven't gone past season one.
I'm now re-runinng year one cause its free and there has been nothing better.

One liner of note, "Yeah I'm not the one with the sex toilet".