woohoo government shutdown

[4Dragons]

My view is that if the ACA is the great piece of legislation that it is supposed to be then the Democrats would accept the budget without funding for the ACA included and then use it as there running platform for 2014 and 2016.

But that's retarded. It already passed. IT's a law now. Why pass a law, then agree to un-pass it and give it another shot in a few years? That's about the most backward thing in the world, and nobody in any party in any government anywhere would accept such an idea.

Can you justify your view in any half decent manner at all? Give it a shot, because I'd love to hear a defense of it. Like, I don't honestly believe you think that's a good idea, do you? As hard as it was to pass, you think they should now table their laws for a few, because conciliation or something? That's nonsensical in every single respect.

The Congress that passed the law was not this Congress. When the makeup of Congress changes, so reflects the will of the voters that put them there. If the election would have overturned the Senate as well, we wouldn't even be having this discussion because the law would be killed dead in its tracks. The dems decided to make this a completely one sided political issue in the way they pursued and passed the law, and now the right will play it in a like manner. I can only guess that when the repubs take back the executive branch that every member of the media will be audited by the IRS, have the democratic members of the House wiretapped and extorted with the info for their votes. Naw, that could never happen, not in America.

[DirtyB]

I haven't followed this situation very closely, but my basic understanding is that the Democrats refused to accept funding to run the government. If that's the case, then they obviously are mostly to blame for this mess. Even if they feel that the Republican house is being unreasonable, it was ultimately the Dems' decision to let this happen.

Since day one there have been enough votes in the House to fund the government, at least temporarily. Only 17 Republicans need to vote with the Democrats to do that. John Boehner refuses to allow that vote to happen, because he's terrified of the Tea Party. The shutdown is entirely on him.

[DirtyB]

members of the House wiretapped and extorted with the info for their votes

Feel free to back that up with facts at any time.

[SrslySirius]

I haven't followed this situation very closely, but my basic understanding is that the Democrats refused to accept funding to run the government. If that's the case, then they obviously are mostly to blame for this mess. Even if they feel that the Republican house is being unreasonable, it was ultimately the Dems' decision to let this happen.

Since day one there have been enough votes in the House to fund the government, at least temporarily. Only 17 Republicans need to vote with the Democrats to do that. John Boehner refuses to allow that vote to happen, because he's terrified of the Tea Party. The shutdown is entirely on him.

I thought the House already approved funding (sans ACA), which was shot down by the Senate. I have no idea what's going on. =/

[4Dragons]

members of the House wiretapped and extorted with the info for their votes

Feel free to back that up with facts at any time.

J Edgar Hoover. But I was speaking from fantasy land, because.. it could never happen. Pray to whatever false god you have that the repubs don't use every tactic the dems have used under obama when they get back in. I hear the right all the time talking about how the dems are gonna open up camps and round everyone up. I see it as the other way around with the religious right doing that with the dem supporters. Again, fantasyland.

[4Dragons]

I haven't followed this situation very closely, but my basic understanding is that the Democrats refused to accept funding to run the government. If that's the case, then they obviously are mostly to blame for this mess. Even if they feel that the Republican house is being unreasonable, it was ultimately the Dems' decision to let this happen.

Since day one there have been enough votes in the House to fund the government, at least temporarily. Only 17 Republicans need to vote with the Democrats to do that. John Boehner refuses to allow that vote to happen, because he's terrified of the Tea Party. The shutdown is entirely on him.

Would like a dime for every time Reid didn't put a bill on the floor to be voted on. You either don't think this goes both ways or are assuming everyone else doesn't read or worse off you actually didn't know that other part of it.

[Crowe Diddly]

I thought the House already approved funding (sans ACA), which was shot down by the Senate. I have no idea what's going on. =/

The House, in late September, passed funding without the ACA, the Senate put the ACA funding back in and sent it back. The House then made it clear that until it gets what it wants, it will stop the entirety of the government and allow the US to default via the debt ceiling debacle. The ACA is already law, cannot be repealed at this time, and has been to the Supreme Court and back, and is still law, but the House Speaker and a dwindling faction of his party has decided that their political victory here is worth EVERYTHING ELSE.

They've picked the law they don't like, that they couldn't stop from passing, that they couldn't repeal, and that they couldn't beat in court, and they said the entirety of everything the US does has to stop unless that law disappears for at least a year. That's not a negotiation, that's taking hostages when the regular channels don't work. That's playing chicken, and hoping the other side cares more about the damage the House is willing to cause to the people who really can't afford to take any more damage (because really, very few rich people will be negatively affected, but poor people will be crushed by a continuing shutdown), and will throw in the towel and say "uncle." Part of Congress cannot be allowed to dictate to everyone else what gets funded and what doesn't, but the House speaker has decided that their victory here is more important than everything else, and at the expense of everything else. Madness, IMO.

[DirtyB]

Since day one there have been enough votes in the House to fund the government, at least temporarily. Only 17 Republicans need to vote with the Democrats to do that. John Boehner refuses to allow that vote to happen, because he's terrified of the Tea Party. The shutdown is entirely on him.

Would like a dime for every time Reid didn't put a bill on the floor to be voted on. You either don't think this goes both ways or are assuming everyone else doesn't read or worse off you actually didn't know that other part of it.

That's true- and entirely irrelevant to the fact that Boehner is 100% responsible for keeping the government closed.

[Pooh]

I'm not going to get political but next November is the beginning of the end of Obamacare.

[Crowe Diddly]

They do not have the votes needed to fully repeal the law so they are using the powers available to them under the Constitution to put off full implementation until the can repeal it. If what they are doing is retarded then the Constitution that gives them the powers must therefore be retarded.

What part of the Constitution are you talking about, exactly? Find me any part of it that applies to what you are saying. Any part of it, and don't forget the parts where they are threatening to default on the US' debts, which is seems decidedly against what the Constitution says Congress must do.

[Pooh]

They need to let Obamacare start and fail on its own. By next Nov Republicans will win the Senate with 34 seats up for grabs, 20 which are Democrats, the majority in districts where Romney won the election. If Obamacare gets delayed a year and the economy continues to improve then the Democrats will retain the Senate imo.

I couldn't care less at this point as long as the stock market goes up.

[shortbuspoker]

They do not have the votes needed to fully repeal the law so they are using the powers available to them under the Constitution to put off full implementation until the can repeal it. If what they are doing is retarded then the Constitution that gives them the powers must therefore be retarded.

What part of the Constitution are you talking about, exactly? Find me any part of it that applies to what you are saying. Any part of it, and don't forget the parts where they are threatening to default on the US' debts, which is seems decidedly against what the Constitution says Congress must do.

http://www.annenbergclassroom.org/pa...le-i-section-7

Article I Section 7 states:

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it becomes a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill.

This has been historically interpreted to mean that all taxation and SPENDING bills must originate in the House as the Senate was originally appointed by the individual states and not chosen under federal elections. This provides the Republican controlled House with a means to fight the ACA by refusing to pass a bill that funds it. Furthermore, under the House's rules, Boehner being the majority leader can control what comes up for a vote much like Harry Reid does in the Senate.

[bukowski72]

Site Helps You ‘Drunk Dial’ Congressmembers

LANHAM, Md. (CBSDC) — The creators of a new website think you might want to take out your frustrations with the government shutdown by “drunk dialing” a member of Congress to vent about it.

On its homepage, DrunkDialCongress.org encourages you, “whether you are a furloughed worker, being forced to work for free, or just fed up at Capitol Hill” to “call and yell at a random member of Congress.”

While the site can be used by anyone, of course, its name implies that you should imbibe to get your juices flowing, first.

After typing your phone number into the call box and hitting send, you wait for a call from the site and listen to an amusing recording of a man slurring his words and saying you’ll soon be connected to a member of the House of Representatives to tell them what’s on your mind. Then it dials up a random lawmaker.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/...ngressmembers/

[bukowski72]

On a more serious note I thought this was a pretty good article about the fragmenting of the Republican Party:

The Last Days of the GOP We could be witnessing the death throes of the Republican Party
BY JOHN B. JUDIS

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...ve-destruction

[Corrigan]

I'm not going to get political but next November is the beginning of the end of Obamacare.

President Romney going to repeal Obamacare on his first day in office. Enough people are pissed off enough about Obamacare that he'll be elected last November.

[DirtyB]

I'm not going to get political but next November is the beginning of the end of Obamacare.

As long as you ignore every poll released in the past month, that makes a lot of sense.

[bukowski72]

"But while the four Republicans in Congressional leadership positions are attempting to hold the increase hostage now, they combined to vote for a debt limit increase 19 times during the presidency of George W. Bush. In doing so, they increased the debt limit by nearly $4 trillion...

...Database searches revealed no demands from the four legislators that debt increases come accompanied by drastic spending cuts, as there are now. In fact, the May 2003 debt limit increase passed the Senate the same day as the $350 billion Bush tax cuts for the wealthy."

During Bush Presidency, Current GOP Leaders Voted 19 Times To Increase Debt Limit By $4 Trillion
By Travis Waldron April 14, 2011
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...mit-hypocrisy/

[4Dragons]

Would like a dime for every time Reid didn't put a bill on the floor to be voted on. You either don't think this goes both ways or are assuming everyone else doesn't read or worse off you actually didn't know that other part of it.

That's true- and entirely irrelevant to the fact that Boehner is 100% responsible for keeping the government closed.

I'm totally with you on that as long as you are totally on board that the reason we don't have a fucking budget in the first place is because of Reid.

[Pooh]

I'm not going to get political but next November is the beginning of the end of Obamacare.

As long as you ignore every poll released in the past month, that makes a lot of sense.

They don't bus n-words in for mid-terms there skippy.

[DirtyB]

That's true- and entirely irrelevant to the fact that Boehner is 100% responsible for keeping the government closed.

I'm totally with you on that as long as you are totally on board that the reason we don't have a fucking budget in the first place is because of Reid.

The continuing resolution budget that the Senate passed was a Republican-backed sequester budget. The GOP just keeps moving the goal posts further and further to the right as the Tea Party gains more influence.