Good to see that strict gun laws work-Chicago edition

[shortbuspoker]

The Windy City is now number one in the nation for murders. Take that New York and Washington DC. I will mitigate it a bit by saying that these are murders and not per capita murder rate.

http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-murder...142122290.html

Move over New York, the Second City is now the murder capital of America.

According to new crime statistics released this week by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Chicago had more homicides in 2012 than any other city in the country. There were 500 murders in Chicago last year, the FBI said, surpassing New York City, which had 419.

[Dan Druff]

I am the last person to defend Chicago, but here is a list of their gun laws, according to Wikipedia:

Chicago has banned the possession of certain semi-automatic firearms that it defines as assault weapons, as well as magazines that can hold more than 12 rounds of ammunition. Chicago residents must "immediately" report a firearm that is stolen or lost, and must report the transfer of a firearm at least 48 hours in advance. In a home where a person younger than 18 is present, all guns must be secured with a trigger lock, or stored in a locked container, or secured to the body of the legal owner. Chicago also prohibits the sale of firearms within city limits.

I can actually understand all of this, aside from the last part, where guns aren't allowed to be sold within the city (why???)

The banning of semi-automatic firearms is probably aimed at prevention of mass shootings. While I understand the counter-argument (you need to fight firepower with firepower if attacked with a semi-automatic weapon), I can also understand a city forbidding them.

The rest of the laws (reporting them being stolen, reporting transfer, securing the gun if children are in the home) are common sense.

No form of gun control is going to bring down the homicide problem in Chicago, though. If that was the intent of the above laws, I agree it was destined for failure.

[Dan Druff]

I am actually a moderate on gun control issues.

However, I am very much against any form of full gun control, and I also hate the mandatory waiting periods, as some gun purchases are made for urgent self-defense reasons (i.e. someone has been threatening you), and you don't always have the luxury of 5 days to wait. In 2013, there should be an ability to do background checks instantly.

[Deal]

Just ban black people.

[shortbuspoker]

I am actually a moderate on gun control issues.

However, I am very much against any form of full gun control, and I also hate the mandatory waiting periods, as some gun purchases are made for urgent self-defense reasons (i.e. someone has been threatening you), and you don't always have the luxury of 5 days to wait. In 2013, there should be an ability to do background checks instantly.

The biggest problem that the average citizen has in cities like Chicago, DC, and NYC imo is the ability to get a concealed carry permit. It is damned near impossible. This is why the average criminal can expect to not be up against a similarly armed citizen while committing an armed crime on the street or in a business.

[ShadyJ]

Since I recently took the conceal carry course in WI I can say that Chicago gun laws are not only different then everywhere else. You have to take 16 hrs of classes compared to 4 here, and I could be wrong but I think its $150 for the license in Chicago and $40 here.

I was actually on tv here because I took the course at a bar that a week earlier the bar owner shot 2 people killing one of them that tried to rob his bar. It was his 2nd time shooting robbers at his bar.

[big dick]

Just ban black people.

it really did need to be said. Im from chicago and i've been in those ghettos a few times. jfc what a miserable horrible place,Id rather live in bagdad than the west side of chicago.

[Gordman]

Since I recently took the conceal carry course in WI I can say that Chicago gun laws are not only different then everywhere else. You have to take 16 hrs of classes compared to 4 here, and I could be wrong but I think its $150 for the license in Chicago and $40 here.

I was actually on tv here because I took the course at a bar that a week earlier the bar owner shot 2 people killing one of them that tried to rob his bar. It was his 2nd time shooting robbers at his bar.

so which one are you?

[PLOL]

Chicago is nowhere near the murder capital of the US. In fact, violent crime and homicides have consistently been going down since the 90's (there was a blimp in 2012, but it was still much safer than all of the 90's and much of the 2000's). But this year they're on pace to have a much lower homicide count (you are quoting 2012 numbers). It's funny that you're comparing Chicago to NYC and using the 'gun control' as the reason for NYC being much safer. Actually NYC, LA, and Chicago have very similar gun control laws. So why doesn't NYC have huge murder numbers when they too have strict gun laws (since you seem to think this would cause gun violence to increase for some reason). Actually the primary reason why NYC has gotten so much safer (along with the national trend of violence and crime going down) is because it's become crazy expensive to live there. Cost of living has gone way up even in many parts of Brooklyn. Not as many 'undesirable people' can afford to live there anymore and areas have been gentrified at a rapid pace. Meanwhile the COL in Chicago is much lower than NYC and LA. 90% of the shootings in Chicago and NYC (and pretty much every city) are people with "extensive criminal histories" shooting other people with "extensive criminal histories" (read: gang violence). Chicago is the 3rd biggest city in the US with over 2.7 million people, so of course there's going to be a lot of murders. While there homicide rate hasn't come down nearly as much as it should, it's still much safer than many cities. Here's a list of cities that have more homicides per capita than Chicago:
Milwaukee, Wisc.
Hartford, Conn.
Atlanta, Ga
Minneapolis, Minn
Kansas City, Mo.
New Haven, Conn.
Dayton, Ohio
Buffalo, NY
Stockton, Cali.
Cincinnati, Ohio
Baton Rough, La.
Little Rock, Ark.
Memphis, Tenn.
Philadelphia, Penn.
Birmingham, Al.
Newark, NJ
Baltimore, Md.
Jackson, Miss.
St. Louis, Mo.
Cleveland, Oh.
New Orleans, La.
Bridgeport, Conn.
Oakland, Cali.
Detroit, Mich
Flint, Mich.

I could keep going, but I only looked at the top 25 most dangerous cities (Chicago wasn't on there). I believe there are 40 cities ahead of Chicago (and I eagerly await the other 40 threads and analysis of each of those cities). I think a better question is, Will Chicago fall off the top 50 most dangerous cities in 2013? Very possible. Obviously it's much better to compare by a per capita rate. You can't just say "California has more murders than any other state". Well... yeah, they also have a ton people. But I don't even think looking at city to city comparisons are fair. In much the same way that it isn't fair to say that Europe has a much lower murder rate and very strict gun laws (much more strict than Chicago or NYC or LA). Correlation doesn't equal causation.

If you wanted to compare gun-violence you could just look at the same city. Chicago passed strict hand-gun laws in 1982. Since then, homicides in Chicago have gone down dramatically, pretty much being cut in half since then. But of course, that wouldn't be a fair comparison either

Chicago gets a ton of heat and media attention for it's violence and murders, especially from conservative news outlets. Let's look at a graph of people searching for 'Chicago most dangerous' on google:


Hmm... what happened in 2008 that would suddenly cause people to think that Chicago is a warzone.... ? Oh that's right, America elected a president from Chicago in 2008. And his Chief of Staff is now the mayor. So people like Matt Drudge want to paint Chicago as badly as possible, even when it's not based in facts.


The easiest ways to not get murdered in Chicago:
1. Do not be a homeless person or panhandle for money on the street
2. Do not engage in selling narcotics on the street
3. Do not join a gang
4. Don't frequent areas with heavy gang-violence (pretty easy to do, in general you can just stay north of 35th St)
This is generally true for all cities.


Sorta interesting that you would make this thread given that there's more crime in the south than in the other region in the US (the safest region in the Northeast). And given that you live in one of the most dangerous states in the USA (but my guess is, you probably don't feel all that unsafe as it's still relatively easy to avoid crime-ridden areas). Increases/decreases in crime are very strongly correlated with an increase or decrease in poverty rates and through gentrification of an area or 'white flight'. The easiest way to reduce crime is to reduce poverty and improve the economy.

Edit:
And if you expand your criteria for 'dangerous' to include more violent crimes such as forcible rape and aggravated assault, Chicago drops down either further. Here's a look at the top 100 most dangerous cities w/25k people or more:
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/nei...p100dangerous/

Chicago barely makes the list at #79. Much safer than my current city of Orlando.

[LLL]

Since I recently took the conceal carry course in WI I can say that Chicago gun laws are not only different then everywhere else. You have to take 16 hrs of classes compared to 4 here, and I could be wrong but I think its $150 for the license in Chicago and $40 here.

I was actually on tv here because I took the course at a bar that a week earlier the bar owner shot 2 people killing one of them that tried to rob his bar. It was his 2nd time shooting robbers at his bar.

I saw that!

[WillieMcFML]

drove up to take a friend of mine to a cards/cubs game at wrigley a couple months ago

my buddy (who grew up in haiti) kept saying "man, it is so fucked up here", telling me he has seen two people get shot in the year he has lived there

pretty crazy that a guy who grew up in the poorest third-world country in the western hemisphere would fear for his safety more in a city in 'murica

[PLOL]

I just looked at the raw murder rates. India is the 'murder capital' of the world. And USA is more dangerous than Iraq, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, and pretty much all of the middle east. Incredible!

[Deal]

... And USA is more dangerous than Iraq, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, and pretty much all of the middle east. Incredible!

That does not surprise the rest of the world.

[shortbuspoker]

I just looked at the raw murder rates. India is the 'murder capital' of the world. And USA is more dangerous than Iraq, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, and pretty much all of the middle east. Incredible!

I'll take our country where the stray vagabonds off each other over the middle eastern shitholes where people strap bombs on to themselves them walk into markets. I also do not think that we stone women for having sex out of wedlock or behead people who refuse to convert to a certain religion. Let us not forget what the would do to you and OSA if you came out over there.

[PLOL]

I just looked at the raw murder rates. India is the 'murder capital' of the world. And USA is more dangerous than Iraq, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, and pretty much all of the middle east. Incredible!

I'll take our country where the stray vagabonds off each other over the middle eastern shitholes where people strap bombs on to themselves them walk into markets. I also do not think that we stone women for having sex out of wedlock or behead people who refuse to convert to a certain religion. Let us not forget what the would do to you and OSA if you came out over there.

Obviously I was being sarcastic. Of course it's much safer in America. I was making the comparison to show why it's absurd to look at raw numbers.

[shortbuspoker]

Obviously I was being sarcastic. Of course it's much safer in America. I was making the comparison to show why it's absurd to look at raw numbers.

[Hockey Guy]

I just looked at the raw murder rates. India is the 'murder capital' of the world. And USA is more dangerous than Iraq, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, and pretty much all of the middle east. Incredible!

I'll take our country where the stray vagabonds off each other over the middle eastern shitholes where people strap bombs on to themselves them walk into markets. I also do not think that we stone women for having sex out of wedlock or behead people who refuse to convert to a certain religion. Let us not forget what the would do to you and OSA if you came out over there.

It's worse than that, as you probably are aware, they stone them for sex out of wedlock for getting raped.

Also, how fucked up is it for missionaries to try to convert people from Islam when they know that that will get them beheaded? All religion is ridiculous & dangerous.

[WillieMcFML]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/20/justic...ing/index.html

A child and 10 adults were hit by gunfire in a park on the South Side of Chicago last night

[big dick]

Chicago is nowhere near the murder capital of the US. In fact, violent crime and homicides have consistently been going down since the 90's (there was a blimp in 2012, but it was still much safer than all of the 90's and much of the 2000's). But this year they're on pace to have a much lower homicide count (you are quoting 2012 numbers). It's funny that you're comparing Chicago to NYC and using the 'gun control' as the reason for NYC being much safer. Actually NYC, LA, and Chicago have very similar gun control laws. So why doesn't NYC have huge murder numbers when they too have strict gun laws (since you seem to think this would cause gun violence to increase for some reason). Actually the primary reason why NYC has gotten so much safer (along with the national trend of violence and crime going down) is because it's become crazy expensive to live there. Cost of living has gone way up even in many parts of Brooklyn. Not as many 'undesirable people' can afford to live there anymore and areas have been gentrified at a rapid pace. Meanwhile the COL in Chicago is much lower than NYC and LA. 90% of the shootings in Chicago and NYC (and pretty much every city) are people with "extensive criminal histories" shooting other people with "extensive criminal histories" (read: gang violence). Chicago is the 3rd biggest city in the US with over 2.7 million people, so of course there's going to be a lot of murders. While there homicide rate hasn't come down nearly as much as it should, it's still much safer than many cities. Here's a list of cities that have more homicides per capita than Chicago:
Milwaukee, Wisc.
Hartford, Conn.
Atlanta, Ga
Minneapolis, Minn
Kansas City, Mo.
New Haven, Conn.
Dayton, Ohio
Buffalo, NY
Stockton, Cali.
Cincinnati, Ohio
Baton Rough, La.
Little Rock, Ark.
Memphis, Tenn.
Philadelphia, Penn.
Birmingham, Al.
Newark, NJ
Baltimore, Md.
Jackson, Miss.
St. Louis, Mo.
Cleveland, Oh.
New Orleans, La.
Bridgeport, Conn.
Oakland, Cali.
Detroit, Mich
Flint, Mich.

I could keep going, but I only looked at the top 25 most dangerous cities (Chicago wasn't on there). I believe there are 40 cities ahead of Chicago (and I eagerly await the other 40 threads and analysis of each of those cities). I think a better question is, Will Chicago fall off the top 50 most dangerous cities in 2013? Very possible. Obviously it's much better to compare by a per capita rate. You can't just say "California has more murders than any other state". Well... yeah, they also have a ton people. But I don't even think looking at city to city comparisons are fair. In much the same way that it isn't fair to say that Europe has a much lower murder rate and very strict gun laws (much more strict than Chicago or NYC or LA). Correlation doesn't equal causation.

If you wanted to compare gun-violence you could just look at the same city. Chicago passed strict hand-gun laws in 1982. Since then, homicides in Chicago have gone down dramatically, pretty much being cut in half since then. But of course, that wouldn't be a fair comparison either

Chicago gets a ton of heat and media attention for it's violence and murders, especially from conservative news outlets. Let's look at a graph of people searching for 'Chicago most dangerous' on google:


Hmm... what happened in 2008 that would suddenly cause people to think that Chicago is a warzone.... ? Oh that's right, America elected a president from Chicago in 2008. And his Chief of Staff is now the mayor. So people like Matt Drudge want to paint Chicago as badly as possible, even when it's not based in facts.


The easiest ways to not get murdered in Chicago:
1. Do not be a homeless person or panhandle for money on the street
2. Do not engage in selling narcotics on the street
3. Do not join a gang
4. Don't frequent areas with heavy gang-violence (pretty easy to do, in general you can just stay north of 35th St)
This is generally true for all cities.


Sorta interesting that you would make this thread given that there's more crime in the south than in the other region in the US (the safest region in the Northeast). And given that you live in one of the most dangerous states in the USA (but my guess is, you probably don't feel all that unsafe as it's still relatively easy to avoid crime-ridden areas). Increases/decreases in crime are very strongly correlated with an increase or decrease in poverty rates and through gentrification of an area or 'white flight'. The easiest way to reduce crime is to reduce poverty and improve the economy.

Edit:
And if you expand your criteria for 'dangerous' to include more violent crimes such as forcible rape and aggravated assault, Chicago drops down either further. Here's a look at the top 100 most dangerous cities w/25k people or more:
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/nei...p100dangerous/

Chicago barely makes the list at #79. Much safer than my current city of Orlando.

Nice job fancy boy. So it pretty much comes down to avoiding black areas, is this correct?

[simpdog]

Chicago is nowhere near the murder capital of the US. In fact, violent crime and homicides have consistently been going down since the 90's (there was a blimp in 2012, but it was still much safer than all of the 90's and much of the 2000's). But this year they're on pace to have a much lower homicide count (you are quoting 2012 numbers). It's funny that you're comparing Chicago to NYC and using the 'gun control' as the reason for NYC being much safer. Actually NYC, LA, and Chicago have very similar gun control laws. So why doesn't NYC have huge murder numbers when they too have strict gun laws (since you seem to think this would cause gun violence to increase for some reason). Actually the primary reason why NYC has gotten so much safer (along with the national trend of violence and crime going down) is because it's become crazy expensive to live there. Cost of living has gone way up even in many parts of Brooklyn. Not as many 'undesirable people' can afford to live there anymore and areas have been gentrified at a rapid pace. Meanwhile the COL in Chicago is much lower than NYC and LA. 90% of the shootings in Chicago and NYC (and pretty much every city) are people with "extensive criminal histories" shooting other people with "extensive criminal histories" (read: gang violence). Chicago is the 3rd biggest city in the US with over 2.7 million people, so of course there's going to be a lot of murders. While there homicide rate hasn't come down nearly as much as it should, it's still much safer than many cities. Here's a list of cities that have more homicides per capita than Chicago:
Milwaukee, Wisc.
Hartford, Conn.
Atlanta, Ga
Minneapolis, Minn
Kansas City, Mo.
New Haven, Conn.
Dayton, Ohio
Buffalo, NY
Stockton, Cali.
Cincinnati, Ohio
Baton Rough, La.
Little Rock, Ark.
Memphis, Tenn.
Philadelphia, Penn.
Birmingham, Al.
Newark, NJ
Baltimore, Md.
Jackson, Miss.
St. Louis, Mo.
Cleveland, Oh.
New Orleans, La.
Bridgeport, Conn.
Oakland, Cali.
Detroit, Mich
Flint, Mich.

I could keep going, but I only looked at the top 25 most dangerous cities (Chicago wasn't on there). I believe there are 40 cities ahead of Chicago (and I eagerly await the other 40 threads and analysis of each of those cities). I think a better question is, Will Chicago fall off the top 50 most dangerous cities in 2013? Very possible. Obviously it's much better to compare by a per capita rate. You can't just say "California has more murders than any other state". Well... yeah, they also have a ton people. But I don't even think looking at city to city comparisons are fair. In much the same way that it isn't fair to say that Europe has a much lower murder rate and very strict gun laws (much more strict than Chicago or NYC or LA). Correlation doesn't equal causation.

If you wanted to compare gun-violence you could just look at the same city. Chicago passed strict hand-gun laws in 1982. Since then, homicides in Chicago have gone down dramatically, pretty much being cut in half since then. But of course, that wouldn't be a fair comparison either

Chicago gets a ton of heat and media attention for it's violence and murders, especially from conservative news outlets. Let's look at a graph of people searching for 'Chicago most dangerous' on google:


Hmm... what happened in 2008 that would suddenly cause people to think that Chicago is a warzone.... ? Oh that's right, America elected a president from Chicago in 2008. And his Chief of Staff is now the mayor. So people like Matt Drudge want to paint Chicago as badly as possible, even when it's not based in facts.


The easiest ways to not get murdered in Chicago:
1. Do not be a homeless person or panhandle for money on the street
2. Do not engage in selling narcotics on the street
3. Do not join a gang
4. Don't frequent areas with heavy gang-violence (pretty easy to do, in general you can just stay north of 35th St)
This is generally true for all cities.


Sorta interesting that you would make this thread given that there's more crime in the south than in the other region in the US (the safest region in the Northeast). And given that you live in one of the most dangerous states in the USA (but my guess is, you probably don't feel all that unsafe as it's still relatively easy to avoid crime-ridden areas). Increases/decreases in crime are very strongly correlated with an increase or decrease in poverty rates and through gentrification of an area or 'white flight'. The easiest way to reduce crime is to reduce poverty and improve the economy.

Edit:
And if you expand your criteria for 'dangerous' to include more violent crimes such as forcible rape and aggravated assault, Chicago drops down either further. Here's a look at the top 100 most dangerous cities w/25k people or more:
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/nei...p100dangerous/

Chicago barely makes the list at #79. Much safer than my current city of Orlando.

Haven't moved yet and already making defenses.

PLOL just move up here to Canada bud, we will gladly accept you.