Snowden heading for Moscow and then to unknown country

[DRK Star]

? Not sure what you mean here.

I dont know how people found out about Petraus and that woman. I thought you were infering that they were caught due to the NSA leaking things about them, but I have never heard that point stated.


My "point" is essentially that I dont see how we are going to stop people who have absolute power like the NSA has, and that this power seemed to not be such a bad thing, if they were using it to prevent major problems like terrorism.

If it get revealed 100% that they used this power to do other things, like blackmail people, I would completely be against it. I think revealing what we were doing to the entire world makes the US look absolutely horrible and our nations credibility is now shit. I didnt mind knowing that they may have been collecting my data, because I havent really done anything to alarm anyone (outside of my slight obsession with 18th century dwarf pornography).

These are absolutely horrible ways of looking at things.

1. There has been nothing released showing that the NSA's spying on us has lead to any stoppage of terrorist events.
2. When you're saying "but how would we stop this" it means you've accepted the fact that we're not a democracy and we're not longer free and you're just laying down and letting them have their way with you.

It's not a matter of "if you're not doing anything wrong you don't have to worry", but it's a matter of there is the basic dignity we're due as humans that they're violating. What I do in my house isn't the government's business just as what I say on the phone or in e-mails isn't their's either. If I wanted them to know about something I'd cc the white house on all my correspondence.

Admittedly it IS a horrible way of looking at things. I just dont see how we realistically can stop it.
I would not want the NSA to tell me HOW they found and stopped something. Why would I give my "playbook" to my opponents?

I have accepted that some parts of our Democracy arent really a democracy. I dont want them to "have their way with me", but I think realistically, I cant really do anything to stop it, so rather than spend way too much of my time fighting something that isnt a bother to me. I dont see Tom and Steve from NSA sitting at a table and combing through my stuff on a daily basis. I see them as saving everyone's shit, looking for some key words, and if they feel like looking into me, so be it. I feel the odds are pretty damn low that they give a shit about me. If I was born in Syria, studied under some islamic whack-a-do, and had a brother that enjoyed blowing shit up, they would probably be all up in my ass. Just because they have everything on me, doesnt mean they are doing anything with it. I have too many other things to be concerned with.

If someone can show me a way where we can "realistically" make a change here, and get 100% transparency, Im in line with you. I just dont see that happening. President whomever will want his very cool toy and will tell everyone under him to look the other way. Im sure a large majority of other countries are "outraged", but its probably because our spy shit is cooler than theirs and we beat them.

[anonamoose]

These are absolutely horrible ways of looking at things.

1. There has been nothing released showing that the NSA's spying on us has lead to any stoppage of terrorist events.
2. When you're saying "but how would we stop this" it means you've accepted the fact that we're not a democracy and we're not longer free and you're just laying down and letting them have their way with you.

It's not a matter of "if you're not doing anything wrong you don't have to worry", but it's a matter of there is the basic dignity we're due as humans that they're violating. What I do in my house isn't the government's business just as what I say on the phone or in e-mails isn't their's either. If I wanted them to know about something I'd cc the white house on all my correspondence.

Admittedly it IS a horrible way of looking at things. I just dont see how we realistically can stop it.
I would not want the NSA to tell me HOW they found and stopped something. Why would I give my "playbook" to my opponents?

I have accepted that some parts of our Democracy arent really a democracy. I dont want them to "have their way with me", but I think realistically, I cant really do anything to stop it, so rather than spend way too much of my time fighting something that isnt a bother to me. I dont see Tom and Steve from NSA sitting at a table and combing through my stuff on a daily basis. I see them as saving everyone's shit, looking for some key words, and if they feel like looking into me, so be it. I feel the odds are pretty damn low that they give a shit about me. If I was born in Syria, studied under some islamic whack-a-do, and had a brother that enjoyed blowing shit up, they would probably be all up in my ass. Just because they have everything on me, doesnt mean they are doing anything with it. I have too many other things to be concerned with.

If someone can show me a way where we can "realistically" make a change here, and get 100% transparency, Im in line with you. I just dont see that happening. President whomever will want his very cool toy and will tell everyone under him to look the other way. Im sure a large majority of other countries are "outraged", but its probably because our spy shit is cooler than theirs and we beat them.

That's the thing, see number 1 in my post above.

Like look at all this crap coming out on the Tsarnaev situation. We had all this information and all these flags and nothing happened. We're essentially letting the government spy on us to "protect" us yet they've failed to protect us with this information.

[TheXFactor]

Edward Snowden is a legitimate whistleblower, the charges of espionage would never stick.

He only released very basic information on NSA's surveillance program.
Basically, NSA surveillance for dummies, I could photoshop better looking documents.
Only about 6 or 7 documents were released out of at least 41 documents from NSA.

Maybe they should charge people in the U.S. government first with illegal spying or lying to Congress.

[DRK Star]

Admittedly it IS a horrible way of looking at things. I just dont see how we realistically can stop it.
I would not want the NSA to tell me HOW they found and stopped something. Why would I give my "playbook" to my opponents?

I have accepted that some parts of our Democracy arent really a democracy. I dont want them to "have their way with me", but I think realistically, I cant really do anything to stop it, so rather than spend way too much of my time fighting something that isnt a bother to me. I dont see Tom and Steve from NSA sitting at a table and combing through my stuff on a daily basis. I see them as saving everyone's shit, looking for some key words, and if they feel like looking into me, so be it. I feel the odds are pretty damn low that they give a shit about me. If I was born in Syria, studied under some islamic whack-a-do, and had a brother that enjoyed blowing shit up, they would probably be all up in my ass. Just because they have everything on me, doesnt mean they are doing anything with it. I have too many other things to be concerned with.

If someone can show me a way where we can "realistically" make a change here, and get 100% transparency, Im in line with you. I just dont see that happening. President whomever will want his very cool toy and will tell everyone under him to look the other way. Im sure a large majority of other countries are "outraged", but its probably because our spy shit is cooler than theirs and we beat them.

That's the thing, see number 1 in my post above.

Like look at all this crap coming out on the Tsarnaev situation. We had all this information and all these flags and nothing happened. We're essentially letting the government spy on us to "protect" us yet they've failed to protect us with this information.

Well, you are also assuming that they should be able to find EVERYTHING, which seems unlikely.

[anonamoose]

That's the thing, see number 1 in my post above.

Like look at all this crap coming out on the Tsarnaev situation. We had all this information and all these flags and nothing happened. We're essentially letting the government spy on us to "protect" us yet they've failed to protect us with this information.

Well, you are also assuming that they should be able to find EVERYTHING, which seems unlikely.

No, I'm saying that they should be able to find at least something, which they haven't. If they were able to go here this is the fruits of our labors this is what we've helped prevent, than this could be a slightly different story but they can't because they haven't found or prevented anything.

I mean what people fail to realize is that if a terrorist wants to attack, it's going to happen no matter what we do. Living in this state of affairs, where we allow ourselves to be subjugated to this lifestyle, only reaffirms that terrorists have won.

[DRK Star]

I think they HAVE won.

Our society cant handle the things other societies can. We are pretty soft.

Its like Jack in a few good men..."You WANT me on that wall...you NEED me on that wall". We pay taxes to have people in positions to protect us, then question how they do it.

My concern now is that EVERYONE knows what we can do, so they will be more careful in the processes from now on.



Do you think Snowden telling the world what the US has been doing HELPS or HURTS the US?

[anonamoose]

I think they HAVE won.

Our society cant handle the things other societies can. We are pretty soft.

Its like Jack in a few good men..."You WANT me on that wall...you NEED me on that wall". We pay taxes to have people in positions to protect us, then question how they do it.

My concern now is that EVERYONE knows what we can do, so they will be more careful in the processes from now on.



Do you think Snowden telling the world what the US has been doing HELPS or HURTS the US?

I think it helps the US. Civil liberties > Security. How could this ever in a million years harm us? Do you really think that nobody on the other side of the fence didn't know we were doing this? This just a gross abuse of power and money. Intelligence departments always do this shit. During the cold war CIA operatives would hold parties with known Russian spies. They both knew who each other was but they sat there diddling their dicks waiting for the other to go "hurr durr I'm a spy".

[DRK Star]

[Lord of the Fraud]

Ironing

[Stopspam]

? Not sure what you mean here.

I dont know how people found out about Petraus and that woman. I thought you were infering that they were caught due to the NSA leaking things about them, but I have never heard that point stated.


My "point" is essentially that I dont see how we are going to stop people who have absolute power like the NSA has, and that this power seemed to not be such a bad thing, if they were using it to prevent major problems like terrorism.

If it get revealed 100% that they used this power to do other things, like blackmail people, I would completely be against it. I think revealing what we were doing to the entire world makes the US look absolutely horrible and our nations credibility is now shit. I didnt mind knowing that they may have been collecting my data, because I havent really done anything to alarm anyone (outside of my slight obsession with 18th century dwarf pornography).

These are absolutely horrible ways of looking at things.

1. There has been nothing released showing that the NSA's spying on us has lead to any stoppage of terrorist events.
2. When you're saying "but how would we stop this" it means you've accepted the fact that we're not a democracy and we're not longer free and you're just laying down and letting them have their way with you.

It's not a matter of "if you're not doing anything wrong you don't have to worry", but it's a matter of there is the basic dignity we're due as humans that they're violating. What I do in my house isn't the government's business just as what I say on the phone or in e-mails isn't their's either. If I wanted them to know about something I'd cc the white house on all my correspondence.

[anonamoose]

One thing I keep finding interesting is the NSA keeps downplaying the information found saying oh it's just phone numbers and this and that and it's no big deal, but at the same time state things like "Snowden has done irreversible damage". If what he released is no big deal how does it cause damage?

My question is what irreversible damage could this had possibly done? Are terrorists all of a sudden going to stop using phones and email? What are they going to just internationally mail each other? That won't look suspicious at all.

[lewfather]

oh ya

[son of lockman]

The guy aint going to surrender as it's death sentence. Not to say he didn't break the laws they made and don't keep themselves, but a certain death awaits him the minute they lay their hands on him. This sh*t's been going down on whistle blowers since the JFK assassination.

[shortbuspoker]

oh ya

Such a great scene

[Dan Druff]

People are freaking out about the government "spying" on their internet and phone calls.

In reality, a MASSIVE amount of data is being harvested, and then analyzed for potential threats. The government is not interested in the porn sites you visit or the hooker you're calling in Vegas. In reality, that's what's freaking everyone out. Nobody likes their most private moments being recorded and accessed by others at will.

Can I understand the hysteria over this? Yes.

Do I like the idea of the government harvesting information that perhaps includes phone numbers I've called and internet sites I've visited? No.

But guess what?

You are voluntarily putting out TONS of information about yourself that can be accessed by lots of private companies and the individuals that work for them.

Do you use a credit card? If you do, anyone who works for that credit card company can see exactly what you've purchased and where you were when you purchased it.

Do you use a cell phone? If you do, anyone who works for that cell phone company can see every number you've called, and others at the company can read every text you've ever sent. Do you have a smart phone? They can also see every website you've ever visited from that phone.

Do you use Facebook? Any Facebook employee -- as well as your Facebook "friends" -- can see every status update of yours, every interaction with friends, every picture you've posted, every place you've checked in, and every person you've "friended". Oh, and don't forget that Facebook's security/privacy seems to screw up every so often, opening up that information to everyone.

Unless you go completely off-the-grid, don't use phones, don't use computers, and pay in cash, your life is an open book.

Oh, but you probably think that these companies have no interest in spying on you.

Wrong!

Ever notice Facebook's ads are based upon your actual interests?

Companies are constantly harvesting data in order to target ads to the right people. It's incredibly powerful. If you have information that I am 41 years old and like '80s music, you know to push an ad to me that Huey Lewis and the News is coming to town. You don't bother showing me ads for Justin Bieber.

The real threat of invasion of privacy will come from the private sector, not the public sector. Perhaps companies will over-harvest data, to the point where our privacy is completely compromised. Perhaps "confidential" data, such as that harvested by Google regarding our searches, will fall into the wrong hands, and eventually be released to the public. Imagine if some hacker (or rogue insider) got a hold of the google search database, matched trillions of searches to actual people, and then posted a list of them on some Wikileaks-like site. And then you could go on there, search for your negihbor's name, and find out that he likes watching beastiality porn.

All of this might be coming to a future near you.

[RichardBrodiesCombover.]

People are freaking out about the government "spying" on their internet and phone calls.

In reality, a MASSIVE amount of data is being harvested, and then analyzed for potential threats. The government is not interested in the porn sites you visit or the hooker you're calling in Vegas. In reality, that's what's freaking everyone out. Nobody likes their most private moments being recorded and accessed by others at will.

Can I understand the hysteria over this? Yes.

Do I like the idea of the government harvesting information that perhaps includes phone numbers I've called and internet sites I've visited? No.

But guess what?

You are voluntarily putting out TONS of information about yourself that can be accessed by lots of private companies and the individuals that work for them.

Do you use a credit card? If you do, anyone who works for that credit card company can see exactly what you've purchased and where you were when you purchased it.

Do you use a cell phone? If you do, anyone who works for that cell phone company can see every number you've called, and others at the company can read every text you've ever sent. Do you have a smart phone? They can also see every website you've ever visited from that phone.

Do you use Facebook? Any Facebook employee -- as well as your Facebook "friends" -- can see every status update of yours, every interaction with friends, every picture you've posted, every place you've checked in, and every person you've "friended". Oh, and don't forget that Facebook's security/privacy seems to screw up every so often, opening up that information to everyone.

Unless you go completely off-the-grid, don't use phones, don't use computers, and pay in cash, your life is an open book.

Oh, but you probably think that these companies have no interest in spying on you.

Wrong!

Ever notice Facebook's ads are based upon your actual interests?

Companies are constantly harvesting data in order to target ads to the right people. It's incredibly powerful. If you have information that I am 41 years old and like '80s music, you know to push an ad to me that Huey Lewis and the News is coming to town. You don't bother showing me ads for Justin Bieber.

The real threat of invasion of privacy will come from the private sector, not the public sector. Perhaps companies will over-harvest data, to the point where our privacy is completely compromised. Perhaps "confidential" data, such as that harvested by Google regarding our searches, will fall into the wrong hands, and eventually be released to the public. Imagine if some hacker (or rogue insider) got a hold of the google search database, matched trillions of searches to actual people, and then posted a list of them on some Wikileaks-like site. And then you could go on there, search for your negihbor's name, and find out that he likes watching beastiality porn.

All of this might be coming to a future near you.

Voluntary is the key word. The Gov is taking this info without our knowledge. That's what bothers me.

[Dan Druff]

It's not voluntary. You just try not to think about it.

You sign up for cell service assuming that the company won't give a shit about who you call or the sites you browse.

But you have no guarantee that they won't use this data for some kind of marketing, or just collect it for later.

In fact, much of this data the government is collecting comes from submitting requests to the large companies collecting it in the first place.

[lewfather]

shout out to druffs liberal side

[anonamoose]

It's not voluntary. You just try not to think about it.

You sign up for cell service assuming that the company won't give a shit about who you call or the sites you browse.

But you have no guarantee that they won't use this data for some kind of marketing, or just collect it for later.

In fact, much of this data the government is collecting comes from submitting requests to the large companies collecting it in the first place.

I understand that companies harvest data all the time, but the government here is a bit of a different story.

Say you were one of the Tsarnaev's friends and completely innocent and oblivious to anything that happened. However, maybe once upon a time ago on your facebook you maybe said something that was anti-government, and once upon a time ago you called a friend somewhere that the government has linked to some sort of terrorist organization, that again you're totally oblivious too.

There's probably at some point going to be federal agents knocking down your door pointing a gun at you asking you what you know.

Now most will say, well it doesn't matter because you're innocent anyway, but that's not how these people question. These people question you with the intent of guilty until proven innocent. You probably won't get your miranda rights right there and then and you won't have a lawyer. Then say ask you something about when was the last time you saw the Tsarnaev's, and say you say something like 3 months ago at Starbucks. If they have information that says no it was 2 months ago at the Boston University parking lot then they begin to question your character over something you may have not remembered correctly.

I understand this is "snowballing" but that's exactly how this form of questioning the government does works.

So it's not the fact that companies already do this, it's the fact that the government does it and can and will use anything they can against you if something is off.

[DRK Star]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...security.shtml