Problem with the NBA

[Dan Druff]

For some reason the OKC loss in five games to Memphis really bothers me.

They only lost because Westbrook is gone, essentially killing their team. They barely got by crappy Houston. Memphis is decent, but not championship caliber. They have no business in the NBA Conference Finals, and especially not in the NBA Finals. If they face Miami, it will be a guaranteed 4-0 or 4-1 series.

So here's my big problem with the NBA: It is too centered around 1-3 star players on each team.

Look how the Cleveland Cavaliers went from an NBA Finals team to a joke when Lebron left.

Look at how the Lakers went from underdogs to HUGE underdogs in the first round this year when Kobe was out. (And keep in mind, this is not even Kobe in his prime!)

Look at how OKC was nowhere near the same without Westbrook.

Look at how Chicago melted down last year when Derek Rose was injured in the first round.

There are tons of other examples like this.

So basically your team can completely own during the regular season, and then you lose your star (or #2 star) player, and you're basically fucked.

That's too much riding on the health of just a few players. Baseball isn't like that, and neither is football. Both of these sports can (and have) see teams with success despite losing their star players. In the NBA, you have almost no chance.

There isn't much of a solution to this, but one partial solution is to cut the number of teams that make the playoffs to 4 in each league, thus making it truly a competition of good teams, rather than a collection of good and mediocre teams. At least it would prevent a mediocre team from skating into the Finals while taking advantage of opponent teams' injuries.

Hopefully San Antonio beats the Warriors, crushes Memphis, and at least provides some degree of challenge to the Heat.

[BCR]

For some reason the OKC loss in five games to Memphis really bothers me.

They only lost because Westbrook is gone, essentially killing their team. They barely got by crappy Houston. Memphis is decent, but not championship caliber. They have no business in the NBA Conference Finals, and especially not in the NBA Finals. If they face Miami, it will be a guaranteed 4-0 or 4-1 series.

So here's my big problem with the NBA: It is too centered around 1-3 star players on each team.

Look how the Cleveland Cavaliers went from an NBA Finals team to a joke when Lebron left.

Look at how the Lakers went from underdogs to HUGE underdogs in the first round this year when Kobe was out. (And keep in mind, this is not even Kobe in his prime!)

Look at how OKC was nowhere near the same without Westbrook.

Look at how Chicago melted down last year when Derek Rose was injured in the first round.

There are tons of other examples like this.

So basically your team can completely own during the regular season, and then you lose your star (or #2 star) player, and you're basically fucked.

That's too much riding on the health of just a few players. Baseball isn't like that, and neither is football. Both of these sports can (and have) see teams with success despite losing their star players. In the NBA, you have almost no chance.

There isn't much of a solution to this, but one partial solution is to cut the number of teams that make the playoffs to 4 in each league, thus making it truly a competition of good teams, rather than a collection of good and mediocre teams. At least it would prevent a mediocre team from skating into the Finals while taking advantage of opponent teams' injuries.

Hopefully San Antonio beats the Warriors, crushes Memphis, and at least provides some degree of challenge to the Heat.

You aren't watching enough NBA, because Memphis is Miami's worst match-up. This is not a secret, even Miami sports radio homers have saw Memphis as the greatest impediment to a Heat championship for the past 2 years, and were extremely happy they can't get out of the west. They are so physical inside that Miami has generally no answer, and they have a great perimeter defender in Tony Allen. Miami is praying for SA.

As far as there being a monopoly of talent, I agree, but it's unfortunately the way it has always been. There are like 10 guys in the league that you really can't win without, and it doesn't help to have like 7 of them on 3 teams. Just be happy you're a Laker fan, as you have been a great beneficiary of the system.

[Dan Druff]

Interesting. It is true that Miami got clobbered in the early season at Memphis (when Miami admittedly wasn't playing as well in general), and won by 7 at home later in the season.

I still don't think Memphis will be able to handle them.

It doesn't bother me as much that certain teams have been able to accumulate a lot of the talent together, but more that a great team's entire season goes to waste if their main star goes down with injury.

How frustrated does the average OKC fan feel right now, after watching the whole season and envisioning an epic Finals battle with Miami. (And yes, I realize that OKC struggles big time against Miami, but that's not the point.)

[BCR]

Interesting. It is true that Miami got clobbered in the early season at Memphis (when Miami admittedly wasn't playing as well in general), and won by 7 at home later in the season.

I still don't think Memphis will be able to handle them.

It doesn't bother me as much that certain teams have been able to accumulate a lot of the talent together, but more that a great team's entire season goes to waste if their main star goes down with injury.

How frustrated does the average OKC fan feel right now, after watching the whole season and envisioning an epic Finals battle with Miami. (And yes, I realize that OKC struggles big time against Miami, but that's not the point.)

Sucks if you're an OKC fan, but I don't really see what would have been different this year in the championship. OKC is maybe equal to what they were last year. Ibaka developing smoothed out the loss of Hardin, but if they were better, it was marginal. Miami is much better with the addition of Allen, Lebron becoming even more efficient, etc. I am much more looking forward to a Memphis or SA getting a shot, as they are physically stronger teams, and worse match-ups for Miami. They are also way better coached imo.

I get what you're saying, and not trying to be argumentative, but this year it was actually good for the eventual championship. Listening to Miami NBA analysts the day after Westbrook was hurt, they were saddened almost to the level of Thunder fans, because they figured OKC could take out their biggest threats, and they know his injury was almost as bad for them.

[Cokehead]

I am a big OKC fan and watching them let Harden go infuriated me. I agree we were prob losing to the Heat anyway in the Finals but yeah this was a pretty weak way to see it all end.

[gut]

It is just the nature of the game. Bball is 5v5, playoff time you're playing with a 8 man squad basically. An injury hurts more in that sport than ALMOST anywhere else. I would argue that losing your star QB in the NFL hurts more than a star going down in the NBA. The Heat without LeBron all year would have still been at the very least a fringe playoff team. Look at the Colts 2 years ago with Peyton's injury. Whole team deflated right from the start.

I'm hoping for Golden State to pull off the next two and face Memphis. Streetball team vs old guard, 80's style bball team.

I also agree with BCR about Miami not wanting to play Memphis. The matchups are not in their favor there. Miami would steamroll SA 4-0 easy, 4-1 at worst.

[simpdog]

It is just the nature of the game. Bball is 5v5, playoff time you're playing with a 8 man squad basically. An injury hurts more in that sport than ALMOST anywhere else. I would argue that losing your star QB in the NFL hurts more than a star going down in the NBA. The Heat without LeBron all year would have still been at the very least a fringe playoff team. Look at the Colts 2 years ago with Peyton's injury. Whole team deflated right from the start.

I'm hoping for Golden State to pull off the next two and face Memphis. Streetball team vs old guard, 80's style bball team.

I also agree with BCR about Miami not wanting to play Memphis. The matchups are not in their favor there. Miami would steamroll SA 4-0 easy, 4-1 at worst.

THIS

[Steve-O]

To win in the NBA you essentially need Hall of Fame caliber players (not Hall of Famers, just guys who can put up close to HOF numbers) and another player who will make All-Star teams from time to time. The best teams have about one or two additional players who are fading stars or are having All-Star years even if they are not All-Star players. Basically you need a Big 2 +1, and then competent role players; Even if they didn't lose Westbrook the OKC bench is pretty lousy this year, and I don't believe they were going back to the Finals... also, Memphis is a better than you think and they have two of the best defensive players in the league --they are simply missing that other guy next to Randolph.

Lebron, Wade, Bosh
Duncan, Parker, Ginobli
Kobe, Gasol, Odom
Nowitski, Kidd, Chandler (probably the worst team in a while to win it all)
Piece, Garnett, Allen
(2006 Heat) Wade, Shaq, *insert Antoine Walker/Gary Payton/Alonzo Mourning*

This goes back to the old days too:
Dr J, Moses Malone, Mo Cheeks
Bird, McHale, Parrish
Magic, Worthy, Kareem
Jordan, Pippen, Horace Grant/Ron Harper

[lewfather]

Steveo using your system how many rings would you be willing to give lebron? He still only has one but I think a proper line would be 2.5/3. Would you be on over?

[gut]

To win in the NBA you essentially need Hall of Fame caliber players (not Hall of Famers, just guys who can put up close to HOF numbers) and another player who will make All-Star teams from time to time. The best teams have about one or two additional players who are fading stars or are having All-Star years even if they are not All-Star players. Basically you need a Big 2 +1, and then competent role players; Even if they didn't lose Westbrook the OKC bench is pretty lousy this year, and I don't believe they were going back to the Finals... also, Memphis is a better than you think and they have two of the best defensive players in the league --they are simply missing that other guy next to Randolph.

Lebron, Wade, Bosh
Duncan, Parker, Ginobli
Kobe, Gasol, Odom
Nowitski, Kidd, Chandler (probably the worst team in a while to win it all)
Piece, Garnett, Allen
(2006 Heat) Wade, Shaq, *insert Antoine Walker/Gary Payton/Alonzo Mourning*

This goes back to the old days too:
Dr J, Moses Malone, Mo Cheeks
Bird, McHale, Parrish
Magic, Worthy, Kareem
Jordan, Pippen, Horace Grant/Ron Harper

I think you're wrong calling them the worst team to win it all in awhile, especially considering they beat this current Miami trio of stars. That Mavs team, however, doesn't fit into your theory of the 2+1 stars. they were Dirk +9 others. If i remember correctly, they basically ran 10 deep during that whole playoff run, 2 different groups of 5 to counter Miami (although Dirk was normally always in, so say 9 deep mainly). But it was purely Dirk's team, it was always clear who was getting the ball in crunch time.

[Steve-O]

Steveo using your system how many rings would you be willing to give lebron? He still only has one but I think a proper line would be 2.5/3. Would you be on over?

I'd take the over on that line. If I was making book I'd probably set the line at 4-4.5 to get equal action on both sides

*EDIT* the reason I set it high is that he is not injury prone and probably has a good 10 years left in him. He also will have the opportunity to ring-chase later in his career because he'll be close to a billionaire before he retires, so three or four years of kicking around from contender to contender could add another ring or two

[Steve-O]

I think you're wrong calling them the worst team to win it all in awhile, especially considering they beat this current Miami trio of stars. That Mavs team, however, doesn't fit into your theory of the 2+1 stars. they were Dirk +9 others. If i remember correctly, they basically ran 10 deep during that whole playoff run, 2 different groups of 5 to counter Miami (although Dirk was normally always in, so say 9 deep mainly). But it was purely Dirk's team, it was always clear who was getting the ball in crunch time.

Yes, they are the outlier in my theory, but if you consider Dirk to be HOF, Terry was having an all-star year, and Marion and Kidd are perennially all-star caliber, toss in an emerging Tyson Chandler and they had a decent team, very close to my 2+1 but more of a 1+3 type roster.

[gut]

I think you're wrong calling them the worst team to win it all in awhile, especially considering they beat this current Miami trio of stars. That Mavs team, however, doesn't fit into your theory of the 2+1 stars. they were Dirk +9 others. If i remember correctly, they basically ran 10 deep during that whole playoff run, 2 different groups of 5 to counter Miami (although Dirk was normally always in, so say 9 deep mainly). But it was purely Dirk's team, it was always clear who was getting the ball in crunch time.

Yes, they are the outlier in my theory, but if you consider Dirk to be HOF, Terry was having an all-star year, and Marion and Kidd are perennially all-star caliber, toss in an emerging Tyson Chandler and they had a decent team, very close to my 2+1 but more of a 1+3 type roster.

Kidd was doing the same role with them as he is now with the Knicks. I think Barea was more of a force that year in the playoffs. I can remember most of that teams rotation off the top of my head, but not the guy who split time at the 3 with Marion. barea/kidd/stevenson/terry/marion/dirk/chandler/haywood. I know I have the Google at my disposal, but am trying hard to remember who else.

edit: got frustrated and had to look it up. Fucking Peja Stojakovic. I remember it being someone who I thought was horrible, and they always needed Marion in.

[BCR]

To me, Chicago, despite a totally depleted roster, was able to make Miami play their style in 4 of the 5 games, they just couldn't score 85 points in most of them. Memphis has won, I think, 6 of 7 against Miami in the Big 3 era so far, and they are just so much better suited to beat that team. Gasol won the NBA DPOY from the writers. The coaches voted Tony Allen the DPOY, and Conley and Gasol all-defensive 2nd team. They will struggle to score, but they should be able to drag Miami into their game. Miami will be favored, but I think Memphis is perfect to beat them, and I look forward to the value of betting the series, games, etc. if they can get past San Antonio. Rough inside play and athletic wings to guard is how to beat Miami, and Memphis has exactly that, they just have to be able to score 90ish, which for them is often a struggle. They need Allen and Conley to have efficient offensive numbers. Do that, and they win. ZBO is the perfect physical/mental force to be completely unfazed by playing Miami, and that's why I had no interest in seeing OKC again. They are another finesse team that does a lot of the same things as Miami, but just doesn't do them as well, and they don't match their intensity.

[Sloppy Joe]

Interesting. It is true that Miami got clobbered in the early season at Memphis (when Miami admittedly wasn't playing as well in general), and won by 7 at home later in the season.

I still don't think Memphis will be able to handle them.

It doesn't bother me as much that certain teams have been able to accumulate a lot of the talent together, but more that a great team's entire season goes to waste if their main star goes down with injury.

How frustrated does the average OKC fan feel right now, after watching the whole season and envisioning an epic Finals battle with Miami. (And yes, I realize that OKC struggles big time against Miami, but that's not the point.)

It doesn't really frustrate me because it's the nature of the game, but I see what you mean.

These playoffs have been much less fun due to the absence of Rose and Westbrook (and to a much lesser degree, Kobe).

OKC probably could have weathered this if they hadn't stupidly dumped Harden for a platter of shit.

At least the Westbrook detractors will shut up for good now. He's a top-5 or 6 talent in the league.

[Steve-O]

Kidd was doing the same role with them as he is now with the Knicks. I think Barea was more of a force that year in the playoffs. I can remember most of that teams rotation off the top of my head, but not the guy who split time at the 3 with Marion. barea/kidd/stevenson/terry/marion/dirk/chandler/haywood. I know I have the Google at my disposal, but am trying hard to remember who else.

edit: got frustrated and had to look it up. Fucking Peja Stojakovic. I remember it being someone who I thought was horrible, and they always needed Marion in.

He was much better two years ago then he is now though. Barea played way above his paygrade that year as did Terry. That year the team was very good, but looking at the players historically they will be seen as an overachieving bunch --they just happened to have two or three guys have career years and get hot in the playoffs.

Remember too just how bad that Miami bench was, and that Lebron, Wade, and Bosch were in year 1 together. I mean Joel Anthony and Mike Miller were basically their 6th and 7th men. Mario Chalmers was their 4th leading scorer at under 8PPG in the playoffs. That was legitimately a 3-man team

[chinamaniac]

It's a star driven league, it always has been that

No Stars = no win http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions

look at this list of NBA champions since 1980 , every team that has one at least 1 NBA championship has been to at least 2 NBA finals and a lot of these teams have won multiple titles.

The last team not to have a LOCK hof member was the 1979 sonics.

The bottom half of the league just can't compete. IMO the answer to make this a competitive playing field is MAJOR contraction and that will never happen because there too much money at stake

[tony bagadonuts]

OKC can choke on bigfoot's dick.

[badguy23]

Miami better worry about the Pacers before they think about Memphis. Stern would have a heart attack if the Finals were Pacers vs Memphis. So you can bet Joey Crawford and the boy's will be calling the games in fav of the Heat. Pacers cant even sell out home playoff games cuz they have no White star. The NBA is a joke compared to the late 80's and 90's.

[RealTalk]

It's a star driven league, it always has been that

No Stars = no win http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions

look at this list of NBA champions since 1980 , every team that has one at least 1 NBA championship has been to at least 2 NBA finals and a lot of these teams have won multiple titles.

The last team not to have a LOCK hof member was the 1979 sonics.

The bottom half of the league just can't compete. IMO the answer to make this a competitive playing field is MAJOR contraction and that will never happen because there too much money at stake

2004 Pistons?