JEW Make the Call: Whole Foods Thanksgiving Edition

[Dan Druff]

I talked to a friend on Thanksgiving who told me the following story about a debacle involving Whole Foods, which occurred in 2024.

This person is very honest and reliable, and I'm certain he's not lying or exaggerating. I gave him my opinion, but I'd like yours. I am paraphrasing what he said to me, as it was not in written form, so I can't copy/paste it.

As you probably know, Whole Foods was bought by Amazon some years ago. In 2024, they decided to integrate the Whole Foods Thanksgiving-to-go meal system with Amazon's site, and you had to order your meal through there. You could not order through Whole Foods directly, and you had to prepay.

My family was coming over, about 12 people total. I am not someone who loves to cook Thanksgiving dinner, so I figured this would be much easier for me. It wasn't cheap, but I'd rather pay a little extra and avoid all the cooking hassle.

Whole Foods normally stays open til 10pm. I did not expect a 10pm closing time on Thanksgiving. If someone asked me to guess, I'd have said 5pm. But it didn't matter because I was picking a timeslot to pick up my meal, which I'd select on the Amazon site.

I decided I didn't want the meal sitting out for hours, so I picked the last timeslot listed, which was 12-1pm.

I read the confirmation email and it was very standard. Just told me to show up between 12-1pm to get my food. It contained no warnings or anything like that.

I wanted to pick it up as close to 1pm as possible, because nobody would be getting to my house until 3.

I started on my way there at about 12:40, and it was normally 10 minutes away from my house. However, there was unusual traffic and it started to look like I'd get there at about 1:00-1:05. Of course this didn't seem like a big deal, because I'm getting there just a few minutes after my timeslot.

Just to make sure, I decided to call them and ask if this was okay, and if not, to please hold the meal until I get there. Nobody answered the phone. I tried like 10 times between 12:45 and 1pm and nobody picked up. Okay, no biggie.

I get there at 1:03 and the door is locked. At first I panicked and thought perhaps I misread the email. But no... it said to pick up between 12pm-1pm, and no warning about losing my entire meal if I showed up even 3 minutes late!!

So I kept banging on the door and nobody answered. Finally an employee walked out carrying his own turkey meal. I went in, and found the manager. She told me that despite it being about 8 minutes late (it took 5 minutes to get in), I could not have my meal. She said it was "all put away for the night", and that they were closing at 1pm.

I asked how I was supposed to know they were closing at 1pm. She said it was "on our website"" but conceded that it wasn't listed anywhere else, including in the email I received.

I asked, "Well, if you put it away, it was only 8 minutes ago. Can you take it back out?"

She said no, that it requires "a key to get into a locked area". I asked, "Well, you got into that area 8 minutes ago, obviously you can get back in now." She refused and said it was "against policy" to open it back up once put away for the night!

At this point some Asian woman came in with the same problem, and she was less polite than me. She was yelling profanity at the manager and asking why there was no indication that they were closing at 1pm, and that it was a hard cutoff. I was making the same point, but much more civilly and politely. Eventually the manger told us that there was zero chance we were getting our meals, and that we needed to leave.

Before I left, I asked the manager to explain her rationale. She didn't seem stupid, just stubborn.

She admitted the following:

- It was hard to know they closed at 1pm, as this was nonstandard and unexpected for most people, and it wasn't printed anywhere except the website.

- The email "should have had a warning to be here by 1pm sharp", but didn't, because "corporate writes those emails, and we have no control over that". She stated that she would "give corporate feedback to correct this for 2025".

- They weren't answering the phones because they were "very busy", and that answering the phones would have alleviated this problem, as they could have held my meal aside for me.

- That I did nothing wrong, given my attempts to call them, and the fact that I showed up only 3 minutes after the timeframe, and had no idea they'd be closed.

- If I had any other timeslot besides 12-1pm, I could have come as late as I wanted and they'd have had the meal for me, as long as they were still open. So there was no cutoff at the end of your pickup time, the only issue was the closing.

- She wasn't giving us our meals despite all this because everything put was put away in a compact fashion in a refrigerated storage shed, and that it would be a big deal to undo all of that at the moment, just for 2 customers.


I decided to leave and scramble to get my Thanksgiving meal, as my family would've been pissed if they showed up and we had no food!!

Fortunately I found a good place nearby which still took orders, and we had a very good meal. I told everyone about my drama and they were very surprised Whole Foods did this.

Amazingly the store could not refund me! The manager wanted to, but she had no ability to because of the Amazon system. She said I had to call them, and it took 3 tries for the refund to finally work. But I did get it.

I did not go back to Whole Foods this year for Thanksgiving, so I don't know if they improved things in 2025.

Was I right to be as pissed as I was about all this? Or was this my fault for coming after 1pm?

He indicated that he called the district manager the following Monday and gave the entire story.

What do you think the result was? For reference, he said the meal was about $500. Recall he got a full refund already, but also no food from them. (They had to refund at minimum, given these circumstances, even though it was prepaid. Otherwise he could have sued them and easily won.) But do you think he deserved something extra, after-the-fact?

JEW MAKE THE CALL

[lol wow]

throw this guy in the ovens where they make their bbq chicken pizza

[Tellafriend]

throw this guy in the ovens where they make their bbq chicken pizza

we have another thread for this lol wuz.

[Kuntmissioner]

I started on my way there at about 12:40, and it was normally 10 minutes away from my house. However, there was unusual traffic and it started to look like I'd get there at about 1:00-1:05. Of course this didn't seem like a big deal, because I'm getting there just a few minutes after my timeslot.

Thanksgiving is the most traveled holiday, so traffic should have been expected. This was cut a bit too close, and your friend should have been at least a little worried about missing their slot. Especially after multiple unanswered phonecalls.

Nonetheless, an effort should have been made to retrieve the ordered food.

Can't imagine that Whole Foods offered more than a 100$ gift card in attempt to win back costumer.

[themanwho]

Nothing extra, welcome to holiday retail. Why did this dummy not leave as early as possible on Thanksgiving to pick up the meal, the most important part of the whole holiday???

Would have been nice if they could stay open a little longer, but workaday shlubs have family they want to see too.

[Texter]

You know employees took those meals, so the manager had to make up that BS story.

[sonatine]

i love the idea of these people being late to get on the space ark before the asteroid hits and then being like BUT I WAS ONLY THREE MINU-[whooooooooossssssshhhhhhhhh]

[Dan Druff]

Nothing extra, welcome to holiday retail. Why did this dummy not leave as early as possible on Thanksgiving to pick up the meal, the most important part of the whole holiday???

Would have been nice if they could stay open a little longer, but workaday shlubs have family they want to see too.

This isn’t a question of whether the guy made the best decision by leaving at 12:40.

The question is whether the store was right in what they did, regarding shutting down at 1pm sharp with everything put away. And if they weren’t right, what was this guy entitled to?

[gut]

Did he ask for a flu shot also?

[themanwho]

Nothing extra, welcome to holiday retail. Why did this dummy not leave as early as possible on Thanksgiving to pick up the meal, the most important part of the whole holiday???

Would have been nice if they could stay open a little longer, but workaday shlubs have family they want to see too.

This isn’t a question of whether the guy made the best decision by leaving at 12:40.

The question is whether the store was right in what they did, regarding shutting down at 1pm sharp with everything put away. And if they weren’t right, what was this guy entitled to?

It was closing time and no one was in the store. So they closed it. How could they possibly be in the wrong?

[Dan Druff]

I'm going to give my opinion below.

I will NOT reveal yet what (if anything) my friend received from Whole Foods as a result of his complaint, nor will I reveal yet what the district manager said. The below is my opinion only, and approximately what I told my friend on Thursday:



The "Druff Rule of Customer Service" states that if something a business is doing is nonstandard, and if the average customer would not typically be aware of it, the burden is on the company to clearly inform the customer.

In this case, closing at 1pm was very nonstandard for Whole Foods, and for large stores in general. It's especially nonstandard to close at 1pm sharp when they have prepaid order pickup slots from 12pm-1pm.

More importantly, prepaid meals are FAR different than on-the-spot orders. Had my friend walked in at 1:03pm and wanted to order Thanksgiving dinner, they would be correct to turn him away, even if they poorly communicated their unusually early closing time.

However, given that he had a $500 prepaid meal, with a pickup window from 12pm-1pm, they should have both stayed open for at least 30 minutes to accommodate latecomers, and they ESPECIALLY should have answered the phone, given that they knew people hadn't yet shown to pick up their expensive meals.

We aren't talking about a $15 sandwich that someone failed to pick up by closing time. These were meals of $500+, and therefore an effort should have been made to contact the customers who perhaps didn't know about the 1pm closure, and at minimum they should have answered all phone calls.

To completely shut off all incoming communication for at least 20 minutes beforehand (probably more), and then close at 1pm on the dot and put away people's $500 prepaid meals to where they couldn't be retrieved, is a HUGE customer service blunder.

Back to my first point, Amazon's order email should have CLEARLY stated the 1pm closing time, and the necessity to be there by 1pm sharp in order to get it. There was no such language, but instead it was just telling you that was your pickup window. Nobody was informed that they'd lose their Thanksgiving dinner at 1:01, which is a big thing to let people know when they've prepaid $500 and are ordering a meal for a big crowd of people coming to their home, on a day when replacement orders can be hard to come by.

This was a much worse situation than my recent flu shot debacle (shout out to gut), because at least I hadn't reserved a spot for the flu shot, nor prepaid for it at that time. In my case, the woman simply didn't want to stay a few minutes after 8pm, so she violated company policy and refused to give it to me. But at least there my "damage" was simply a wasted trip down to the pharmacy. In this case, the "damage" to the customer is coming away empty handed, instead of a PREPAID $500 MEAL they were expecting to have to serve to a large number of hungry (and likely out-of-town) guests!

If your store really needs to shut down by 1pm for whatever reason, you should make the last pickup window end at 12:30pm at the latest, and preferably 12pm. Locking the doors at 1pm sharp for 12-1pm pickup times is awful, and anyone defending it does not understand expectations of retail, nor basic customer service principles.

In short, I told my friend that while he should have allowed more time and shown up in that window, it was not his fault that he didn't know they were closing at 1pm, nor was it reasonable for them to lock up his food at 1pm, lock the doors, and refuse to help him once he got in. It also wasn't reasonable for them to refuse to answer the phone, given what they were planning to do.

In short, he really got fucked by them, and this was 90% Whole Foods' fault, 10% his fault, in my opinion.

Now, did the district manager see it this way? I'll post that later on, probably tomorrow.

[Dan Druff]

This isn’t a question of whether the guy made the best decision by leaving at 12:40.

The question is whether the store was right in what they did, regarding shutting down at 1pm sharp with everything put away. And if they weren’t right, what was this guy entitled to?

It was closing time and no one was in the store. So they closed it. How could they possibly be in the wrong?

See the post I just made

[Dan Druff]

You know employees took those meals, so the manager had to make up that BS story.

Interesting, because that was the first thing I said to him in response to the story.

He said that he was sure of it too, but his subsequent conversation with the district manager regarding the procedure made him reasonably certain that the meal was waiting for him the next day, had he wanted it.

[BCR]

Did he think everyone else wanted their Thanksgiving meals at 10AM? That the last time slot was 12-1 is pretty fucking indicative that they aren’t going to be open much longer.

If I take the very last time slot available I’m 100% going to call that store and find out when they’re open until. It’s not like it’s just for me. I am feeding everyone. I’m also never going to be late. The last time slot is a full hour. He couldn’t make it in that full hour? That he took the last time slot and expected to show up right at the last minute tells me already that he’s a dick. Fuck him.

[Dan Druff]

Did he think everyone else wanted their Thanksgiving meals at 10AM? That the last time slot was 12-1 is pretty fucking indicative that they aren’t going to be open much longer.

If I take the very last time slot available I’m 100% going to call that store and find out when they’re open until. It’s not like it’s just for me. I am feeding everyone. I’m also never going to be late. The last time slot is a full hour. He couldn’t make it in that full hour? That he took the last time slot and expected to show up right at the last minute tells me already that he’s a dick. Fuck him.

I think the piece you're missing here is that Whole Foods isn't a restaurant, nor do they ever close at 1pm on any other day. The usual closing time is 9-10pm. The 1pm was arbitrary, and is early even by Thanksgiving standards.

It would be perfectly reasonable to assume that Whole Foods winds down its Thanksgiving turkey pickup operation at 1pm, and then closes somewhat later. In fact, that's exactly what they should have done -- set the pickup windows to end an hour before whichever Thanksgiving closing time they've set for themselves.

Also, he did call the store starting from 12:40, but they were intentionally not answering the phone.

In any case, it's not reasonable to take $500 from someone for Thanksgiving dinner, tell him he can come from 12pm-1pm to get it, and refuse to give it to him at 1:01pm. Absolutely no catering business on earth works like that.

He obviously didn't handle it perfectly (he should've just come there before 1pm, to be sure), but to deny him his meal in this situation is egregiously bad.

[BCR]

Did he think everyone else wanted their Thanksgiving meals at 10AM? That the last time slot was 12-1 is pretty fucking indicative that they aren’t going to be open much longer.

If I take the very last time slot available I’m 100% going to call that store and find out when they’re open until. It’s not like it’s just for me. I am feeding everyone. I’m also never going to be late. The last time slot is a full hour. He couldn’t make it in that full hour? That he took the last time slot and expected to show up right at the last minute tells me already that he’s a dick. Fuck him.

I think the piece you're missing here is that Whole Foods isn't a restaurant, nor do they ever close at 1pm on any other day. The usual closing time is 9-10pm. The 1pm was arbitrary, and is early even by Thanksgiving standards.

It would be perfectly reasonable to assume that Whole Foods winds down its Thanksgiving turkey pickup operation at 1pm, and then closes somewhat later. In fact, that's exactly what they should have done -- set the pickup windows to end an hour before whichever Thanksgiving closing time they've set for themselves.

In any case, it's not reasonable to take $500 from someone for Thanksgiving dinner, tell him he can come from 12pm-1pm to get it, and refuse to give it to him at 1:01pm. Absolutely no catering business on earth works like that.

I know what Whole Foods is. I also knew what holiday hours were 30 years ago. I don’t agree it’s the default for a grocery store to end their pickup 4 hours before a store closes. That’s weird thinking imo. If I saw that was the last time slot I’d assume they were closing at 2 at the latest.

It’s not like he’s ordering. He’s simply picking up. Why would they close the pickup earlier than maybe an hour before? I’m certainly going to call at latest the day before and make sure what time it’s open until. I feel like grasping the world doesn’t revolve around you is like a 100 level course in adulthood.

[BCR]

My first thought was if I had a dozen people waiting on me, and I fucked up and showed up late, I’m pulling out a $100 and quickly going up to $200 if the person will go get my shit. Did he try that? Like it’s a hassle to wait on the late entitled guy, but most people if you offer them a few hundred are going to call someone barely out of the parking lot if they even really needed a key and split it with them. I’m going to spend way more than that trying to find dinner last minute anyway

[themanwho]

I just re-read your story, and your friend snuck in through an otherwise locked door when an employee was leaving to go home. Do I have that right?

I get there at 1:03 and the door is locked. At first I panicked and thought perhaps I misread the email. But no... it said to pick up between 12pm-1pm, and no warning about losing my entire meal if I showed up even 3 minutes late!!

So I kept banging on the door and nobody answered. Finally an employee walked out carrying his own turkey meal. I went in, and found the manager. She told me that despite it being about 8 minutes late (it took 5 minutes to get in), I could not have my meal. She said it was "all put away for the night", and that they were closing at 1pm.

Because in that case, they should have shot him.

[Dan Druff]

I think the piece you're missing here is that Whole Foods isn't a restaurant, nor do they ever close at 1pm on any other day. The usual closing time is 9-10pm. The 1pm was arbitrary, and is early even by Thanksgiving standards.

It would be perfectly reasonable to assume that Whole Foods winds down its Thanksgiving turkey pickup operation at 1pm, and then closes somewhat later. In fact, that's exactly what they should have done -- set the pickup windows to end an hour before whichever Thanksgiving closing time they've set for themselves.

In any case, it's not reasonable to take $500 from someone for Thanksgiving dinner, tell him he can come from 12pm-1pm to get it, and refuse to give it to him at 1:01pm. Absolutely no catering business on earth works like that.

I know what Whole Foods is. I also knew what holiday hours were 30 years ago. I don’t agree it’s the default for a grocery store to end their pickup 4 hours before a store closes. That’s weird thinking imo. If I saw that was the last time slot I’d assume they were closing at 2 at the latest.

It’s not like he’s ordering. He’s simply picking up. Why would they close the pickup earlier than maybe an hour before? I’m certainly going to call at latest the day before and make sure what time it’s open until. I feel like grasping the world doesn’t revolve around you is like a 100 level course in adulthood.

My first thought was if I had a dozen people waiting on me, and I fucked up and showed up late, I’m pulling out a $100 and quickly going up to $200 if the person will go get my shit. Did he try that? Like it’s a hassle to wait on the late entitled guy, but most people if you offer them a few hundred are going to call someone barely out of the parking lot if they even really needed a key and split it with them. I’m going to spend way more than that trying to find dinner last minute anyway

If the window is 12pm-1pm and you show up at 1:03, it's not "fucking up and showing up late". Showing up at 1:20 is late. 3 minutes after an hour pickup window is basically on time, especially for a $500 prepaid Thanksgiving order, where the customer is absolutely fucked without it.

Again, if it were a $15 sandwich and they had closed up and didn't feel like digging the stuff out for him, this would be much more reasonable.

I didn't explain the key thing in detail, but I'll explain it now. I was also confused by it, and asked him for clarity. The key was a red herring. The manager herself had the key, so to say it's in a "locked shed" is meaningless. She later acknowledged in their conversation that she had the key the whole time. There was nobody to go retrieve who had already walked to their car to go home. The manager could have done all of this herself, she just didn't feel like it, presumably because she was emotionally done for the day after putting everything away and locking the shed door.

In my experience, large retail stores which are open on Thanksgiving typically stay open to something like 3-5pm. I don't remember the last time I've seen a 1pm closing, except for some mom and pop places.

Regardless, you simply don't schedule a pickup window for 12pm-1pm for customers for a large, expensive meal, and then lock the door at 1pm sharp and put away the food in a place you'll refuse to retrieve it.

That's retard time management and customer service skills. Anyone with a lick of sense would end the final pickup at least 30 minutes before closing, preferably an hour or more.

Ideally, everyone will show up exactly in their timeframe window. Ideally, they'll see the last timeframe and think, "Oh wow, I bet they close at 1pm sharp, I'll make sure not to be even one minute late!"

That's not the reality of retail. When you're closing at a weird time which isn't disclosed in the email, when you're more of a store than a restaurant (to where people wouldn't automatically assume last pickup window for food equals closure the minute after), and where you know exactly how many expensive meals are not yet picked up, you don't lock the doors at 1pm and tell people to shove it. And if that's your plan, you should make every effort to reach people who haven't picked up yet, and find out the deal. And if you don't want to do that, you definitely don't ignore the phones during the final 20 minutes you're open.

Note that my friend wasn't the only victim of this. There was an Asian woman who was much angrier than he was.

Question: Do you think Whole Foods managed this well? If you were the district manager, would you pat the woman on the back, say "Job well done", and keep the same policies (and same ambiiguous email) for 2025?

[Dan Druff]

I just re-read your story, and your friend snuck in through an otherwise locked door when an employee was leaving to go home. Do I have that right?

I get there at 1:03 and the door is locked. At first I panicked and thought perhaps I misread the email. But no... it said to pick up between 12pm-1pm, and no warning about losing my entire meal if I showed up even 3 minutes late!!

So I kept banging on the door and nobody answered. Finally an employee walked out carrying his own turkey meal. I went in, and found the manager. She told me that despite it being about 8 minutes late (it took 5 minutes to get in), I could not have my meal. She said it was "all put away for the night", and that they were closing at 1pm.

Because in that case, they should have shot him.

There's the little matter of them having $500 of his money for his prepaid order, 3 minutes after the official pickup window is over.

This isn't barging into a closed grocery store while an employee is walking out, and demanding they stay open for you.