Vegas is Struggling in 2025

[desertrunner]

LVCVA released the tourism stats for Las Vegas for September 2025 (vs Sept 2024):

Visitor Volume down 8.8%

Hotel Occupancy down 5.2%

RevPAR down 9%

Air Passengers down 6.4%

Gaming Revenue (Strip) down 5.5%

And its only going to get worse. November and December are slow months.

MGM CEO: ‘Shame on us’ about high prices in Las Vegas

Been saying this for years- People are cheap, adjust accordingly, they didnt and now its too late.

[Tellafriend]

same as i reported on my last visit to the desert.

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/KobeissiLetter/status/1984312411437048227

[Dan Druff]

Yes, this is correct.

And Caesars, which is largely aimed at the middle class and lower middle class, has nickel and dimed these people out of wanting to come.

Rich guys don't tend to care about resort fees, $11 coffees, and $22 burgers. But regular people do.

[desertrunner]

MGM Resorts executives said some prices have already been adjusted, particularly at the casino hotels at the lower end of the company’s portfolio, such as Excalibur, Luxor and New York-New York.

MGM CEO: ‘Shame on us’ about high prices in Las Vegas

[Dive_Bar_Dave]

Since Druff mentioned $22 burgers, this news story struck my interest:



The reporter goes up and down The Strip and finds the burger prices to be generally "between $22 and $30."

[mickeycrimm]

On my September visit to Las Vegas I had the Ramsey Wagyu Beef burger, plus fries, jalapeno poppers, and diet coke. It was $97 but I paid for it with the $100 celebration dinner comp. The burger was nothing special but the poppers were the best I ever had.

I ordered a burger and fries to go, no drink, at Johnny Rockets in Flamingo. I had plenty of water in the room. The charge was $21. If I ordered water or soft drink the charge would be $28.

I said “can I pay with comp dollars?”
She said “sure.”
So I get the receipt and see where she charged me 42 comp dollars. I said WTH!
She said” we’re a 3rd party so we have to charge double.”
I said “cancel it and I will pay cash.”
She said “to late. I can’t reverse it.”
I said “so the burger is $21 cash, right? What if I had exactly 21 comp dollars and said I want to pay with comp dollars?”
She said “So we would take the 21 comp dollars and then-“ She froze up.
I finished the sentence for her “and you would charge me $21 cash. So what would be the point of me using comp dollars?”
She didnt answer the question but she gave me a comp for that night.

I always pack my own water into hotel rooms. I buy 40 packs at Walmart for about $5.50. I mostly order meals to go and take them to the room. This cuts the food bill by about 20%.

I use 4 to 6 bottles a day. Bottled water is about $7 in the strip casinos. I would be spending $40 a day on water alone if I bought it from them.

There is a gift shop on the promenade in front of the Horseshoe that sells cold water for $1.50 a bottle.

BTW, Flamingo has refrigerators in the rooms.

[desertrunner]

I always wanted to buy stock in Station Casinos (STN), but they got bought out by Red Rock Resorts (RRR). Today I finally bought some shares of RRR as a very long term "hold and hope" in my portfolio. My thinking is- if I am going to stay at a hotel, I might as well own stock in the company and kinda pay myself. I think Druff should do this- buy stock in Caesars, etc.



The good article on RRR- Red Rock Stock Pullback May Be Buying Opportunity, Says Analyst

The bad comment by Tim in the article (accurate, he's right)-

[Tellafriend]

i mean, it is a comment by Tim. San/Tine where we at here?

[Dan Druff]

On my September visit to Las Vegas I had the Ramsey Wagyu Beef burger, plus fries, jalapeno poppers, and diet coke. It was $97 but I paid for it with the $100 celebration dinner comp. The burger was nothing special but the poppers were the best I ever had.

I ordered a burger and fries to go, no drink, at Johnny Rockets in Flamingo. I had plenty of water in the room. The charge was $21. If I ordered water or soft drink the charge would be $28.

I said “can I pay with comp dollars?”
She said “sure.”
So I get the receipt and see where she charged me 42 comp dollars. I said WTH!
She said” we’re a 3rd party so we have to charge double.”
I said “cancel it and I will pay cash.”
She said “to late. I can’t reverse it.”
I said “so the burger is $21 cash, right? What if I had exactly 21 comp dollars and said I want to pay with comp dollars?”
She said “So we would take the 21 comp dollars and then-“ She froze up.
I finished the sentence for her “and you would charge me $21 cash. So what would be the point of me using comp dollars?”
She didnt answer the question but she gave me a comp for that night.

I always pack my own water into hotel rooms. I buy 40 packs at Walmart for about $5.50. I mostly order meals to go and take them to the room. This cuts the food bill by about 20%.

I use 4 to 6 bottles a day. Bottled water is about $7 in the strip casinos. I would be spending $40 a day on water alone if I bought it from them.

There is a gift shop on the promenade in front of the Horseshoe that sells cold water for $1.50 a bottle.

BTW, Flamingo has refrigerators in the rooms.

The 2:1 Rewards Credit redemption shit at Caesars properties is a catastrophe, and has been for many years.

The shock is that you didn't know about this until September 2025!! You must not go to Caesars properties often (or if you do, perhaps you don't use RCs at restaurants?)

Yes, you always need to ask beforehand if you get charged 2:1 RCs.

I actually had two issues regarding this in the 2010s, despite my best efforts to check beforehand.

One of them was in Tahoe, at Cabo Wabo's, where the assistant manager didn't know the answer, and got increasingly irritated that I wanted to know for sure before ordering. When she kept giving me nonsensical answers and I wasn't accepting them, she was getting increasingly rude, then outright yelled at me. At that point I left, but she threatened to call security on me when I was asking for the contact info of her boss. I reported her to the Food & Beverage Manager of the Tahoe market. She got fired, having committed about seven different violations in that interaction with me, including failing to self-report a negative interaction with a customer, which was a strict rule there. The whole story, which occurred in 2017, is here: https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...-wanted-answer

Two years later, in 2019, I went to Hash House at the Linq Hotel. Note that the Rio version of Hash House, which I had gone to that same month, was charging RCs at 1:1. This Hash House, in the same market and also at a Caesars property, was 2:1. Makes loads of sense, right? I didn't bother to check this time because I was familiar with the Rio location, and had never seen where one location is 1:1 and the other is 2:1 in the same market. Anyway, after I found myself double-charged just like Mickey, I asked for them to fix it or back it out, and there was no way. I had ensuing arguments with various departments, all of whom tried to pass the buck. I eventually got it back from Total Rewards at Rio, but not before getting a nasty lecture from the woman there. Story is here: https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...harges-2-1-RCs


This is just Caesars stupidity. No other casino company does this 1:1/2:1 shit. Either points work at 1:1 redemption rate, or they don't work at all. Caesars expects customers to somehow keep track of all the outlets which charge 2:1 and which 1:1, and many restaurant employees don't even know the answer (such as that obnoxious girl at Cabo Wabo).

Why do they do it? Because third party restaurants get reimbursed by Caesars with real money, and while not at 100% rate, it's high enough to where Caesars hates doing it. So Caesars doesn't find it "worth it" for you to redeem RCs at 1:1 if they have to pay real money out at near that rate. In their own restaurants, they get away much cheaper because it's basically just the cost of the food they're out, not the retail price. Rather than just saying "Sorry, you can't redeem RCs at third party joints", which would be totally fine, they do this surreptitious 2:1 shit, and then you're treated like an asshole when you find out and are unhappy.

[Dan Druff]

If you haven't checked your Caesars Rewards account recently for offers/comps, you should. They might have improved. They have for me, and I didn't play anytime recently to cause it.

I have to assume this is due to the casinos struggling.

Even if your offers suck (or don't exist), you should check the room matrix in each market which interests you, which you can do by clicking "Book Room", choosing the market (not a specific property), and pick "Flexible Dates", then select the month.

I have a lot of COMP dates in Vegas now, which I didn't before.

[desertrunner]

If you haven't checked your Caesars Rewards account recently for offers/comps, you should. They might have improved. They have for me, and I didn't play anytime recently to cause it.

i know exactly why this happened- Druff called Customer Service to complain and the first words out of his mouth was- "Dont you know who I am??" and bingo!

[Tellafriend]

If you haven't checked your Caesars Rewards account recently for offers/comps, you should. They might have improved. They have for me, and I didn't play anytime recently to cause it.

i know exactly why this happened- Druff called Customer Service to complain and the first words out of his mouth was- "Dont you know who I am??" and bingo!

empty your bowels and take care of this expeditiously.

[desertrunner]

[mickeycrimm]

On my September visit to Las Vegas I had the Ramsey Wagyu Beef burger, plus fries, jalapeno poppers, and diet coke. It was $97 but I paid for it with the $100 celebration dinner comp. The burger was nothing special but the poppers were the best I ever had.

I ordered a burger and fries to go, no drink, at Johnny Rockets in Flamingo. I had plenty of water in the room. The charge was $21. If I ordered water or soft drink the charge would be $28.

I said “can I pay with comp dollars?”
She said “sure.”
So I get the receipt and see where she charged me 42 comp dollars. I said WTH!
She said” we’re a 3rd party so we have to charge double.”
I said “cancel it and I will pay cash.”
She said “to late. I can’t reverse it.”
I said “so the burger is $21 cash, right? What if I had exactly 21 comp dollars and said I want to pay with comp dollars?”
She said “So we would take the 21 comp dollars and then-“ She froze up.
I finished the sentence for her “and you would charge me $21 cash. So what would be the point of me using comp dollars?”
She didnt answer the question but she gave me a comp for that night.

I always pack my own water into hotel rooms. I buy 40 packs at Walmart for about $5.50. I mostly order meals to go and take them to the room. This cuts the food bill by about 20%.

I use 4 to 6 bottles a day. Bottled water is about $7 in the strip casinos. I would be spending $40 a day on water alone if I bought it from them.

There is a gift shop on the promenade in front of the Horseshoe that sells cold water for $1.50 a bottle.

BTW, Flamingo has refrigerators in the rooms.

The 2:1 Rewards Credit redemption shit at Caesars properties is a catastrophe, and has been for many years.

The shock is that you didn't know about this until September 2025!! You must not go to Caesars properties often (or if you do, perhaps you don't use RCs at restaurants?)

Yes, you always need to ask beforehand if you get charged 2:1 RCs.

I actually had two issues regarding this in the 2010s, despite my best efforts to check beforehand.

One of them was in Tahoe, at Cabo Wabo's, where the assistant manager didn't know the answer, and got increasingly irritated that I wanted to know for sure before ordering. When she kept giving me nonsensical answers and I wasn't accepting them, she was getting increasingly rude, then outright yelled at me. At that point I left, but she threatened to call security on me when I was asking for the contact info of her boss. I reported her to the Food & Beverage Manager of the Tahoe market. She got fired, having committed about seven different violations in that interaction with me, including failing to self-report a negative interaction with a customer, which was a strict rule there. The whole story, which occurred in 2017, is here: https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...-wanted-answer

Two years later, in 2019, I went to Hash House at the Linq Hotel. Note that the Rio version of Hash House, which I had gone to that same month, was charging RCs at 1:1. This Hash House, in the same market and also at a Caesars property, was 2:1. Makes loads of sense, right? I didn't bother to check this time because I was familiar with the Rio location, and had never seen where one location is 1:1 and the other is 2:1 in the same market. Anyway, after I found myself double-charged just like Mickey, I asked for them to fix it or back it out, and there was no way. I had ensuing arguments with various departments, all of whom tried to pass the buck. I eventually got it back from Total Rewards at Rio, but not before getting a nasty lecture from the woman there. Story is here: https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...harges-2-1-RCs


This is just Caesars stupidity. No other casino company does this 1:1/2:1 shit. Either points work at 1:1 redemption rate, or they don't work at all. Caesars expects customers to somehow keep track of all the outlets which charge 2:1 and which 1:1, and many restaurant employees don't even know the answer (such as that obnoxious girl at Cabo Wabo).

Why do they do it? Because third party restaurants get reimbursed by Caesars with real money, and while not at 100% rate, it's high enough to where Caesars hates doing it. So Caesars doesn't find it "worth it" for you to redeem RCs at 1:1 if they have to pay real money out at near that rate. In their own restaurants, they get away much cheaper because it's basically just the cost of the food they're out, not the retail price. Rather than just saying "Sorry, you can't redeem RCs at third party joints", which would be totally fine, they do this surreptitious 2:1 shit, and then you're treated like an asshole when you find out and are unhappy.

You're right. I don't have much experience with CZR. I avoided CZR for 20 years because of their low pay machines. I would drive right by them without stopping in the midwest. Then, because of reading your threads on CZR I applied for the Diamond card with my Wyndam Credit Card. I got free rooms at Council Bluffs for a few days. Then didn't pursue it and my Diamond level expired.

The next time around I applied for Diamond because I was Diamond on Wyndam Rewards. That was last year. Got free rooms again. I decided to push for Diamond until 2027 so had to run the 75K in action. Took me 14 days of playing advantage slots in the midwest CZR's. That was this past spring and early summer. Everything was comped while I was doing it.

So late this summer I'm seeing all this room comp in Las Vegas on their app. So I hit the CZR's in Las Vegas. First time to Vegas in about 18 years. I had bought meals with comp dollars at the midwest CZR's but never ran into a 2:1 situation. And I had never read anything that said watch out for it. Johnny Rocket's at the Flamingo was my first encounter with it. And I immediately told myself don't ever fall for that stupid shit again.

[Dive_Bar_Dave]

Vegas is almost as bad as the fall of 2021:

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2025/no...-mounting-str/


Bottled water (20 oz.) for $9 at the cruddy Flamingo:

[go_buccos]

CZR continues to circle the drain. Pricing their main customer base out entirely. No, running some “specials” here and there isn’t going to fix it, and knowing them they’ll offer a $10 burger and fries with a players card and then no-mail anyone who takes too much advantage of it because, well, it’s CZR…

At least Hornbuckle (MGM CEO) has paid lip service to the fact that they know they fucked up. MGM will likely make some token adjustments and advertise the shit out of them while still charging exorbitant prices on 99% of their stuff.

It’s going to have to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. What’s needed is a full tear down and complete reset of the Vegas strip pricing ecosystem. Getting exposed for what it is is the first step I guess.

It’s also sad that it took tourism numbers cratering to get the MSM to finally cover this. It’s been going on for well over a decade, including the pandemic crash.

I likely will never voluntarily set foot in Vegas again. Had to go last spring for a relative’s wedding and was absolutely nauseated by what I saw.

[BedWetterBettor]

Just got back from my Vegas trip and was actually pleased with SOME of the value I got on food and drinks.

THE GOOD: Tables and Slots were WAY more generous than last year and while I didn't come out ahead, I had a great time, saw some great shows and feel like it was money well spent.

1) Vegas! the Show, is a Bargain at $36 per ticket and the Roller Girl Emily England is amazing, in more ways than one!

2) The Weather was PERFECT! Warm in the day and cool at night.

3) No Riots, Protests, or Street Dangers on the strip

4) I somehow Lost 2 lbs from all the extra Cardio and I did fully use the Fitness center for the whole stay!

5) Got a Day at Grand Canyon West, Amazing Drive and worth the $99 bucks or buy a bus ticket for $70 more!

THE BAD

*These are small nitpicks, but can't have the Good without the Bad!

1) Super Aggressive Showgirls, they will follow you down the strip trying to get money from you and while I didn't fall for their charms, I certainly didn't appreciate being cornered by two of them at a time and being asked for "Tips for their time"... I mean, if you're gonna have your boobs hanging out and expect money from horny guys, just go all the way and flash them Fun Bags for a fee!

2) Allegiant Stadium regulations are absurd. No Bags bigger than the size of a VHS tape for women? My GF was pissed she couldn't bring her makeup pouch sized bag into the stadium to keep her phone, ID and cards. Lucky for us, I wore a hoodie with big pockets and could hold all the items, but having to pay $20 for Bag check you didn't ask for is some Bool Sheeit! At Met Life Stadium, they allow you to bring a clear bag up to the size of a large back pack and you can bring food and drinks in it. Allegiant won't bother as they just want to gouge tourists and locals alike.

3) Waitresses can't bring you more than 1 drink at a time? I would FULLY understand if this was just for alcohol, but apparently it's applicable to soda, coffee and non-alcoholic drinks too. I usually overtip waitresses anyway, and they NEVER had an issue giving me two cups of tea and a coffee at most casinos. Am I trying to avoid paying $11 for each of those? Sure, but I am playing the ETG and slots to EARN those drinks and they should really not be so strict about the 1 beverage limit for Non-alcoholic items! Beer, Liquor and Hard drinks... absolutely 1 per player. Coffee, Tea and Water... lighten the Fuck up!

4) Check In Kiosks are either down or have 12 people waiting to use them and if you go over and wait in the line for the receptionist, they make you go wait in the Kiosk Line and then come over to them when THEY call you. Again, I understand the need for order and structure, but just do a better job CET! Have old people who can't understand how to use a Kiosk stand in line for the receptionist and then give the rest the CHOICE to use the Kiosk or not.

I only gripe about this is because whenever you book a reservation with TWO TR card numbers, you ALWAYS have to check in at the desk and the Kiosk has a conniption when you try to check in with two names on a reservation. I get because people are using their friends cards to check in and the friend never shows up, essentially letting the other party use the comp rooms. But seriously this wastes a LOT of time.

5) Minor Gripe but still gotta post it here. The "All You Can Eat" Specials at Guy Fieri's Chophouse and other eateries are a WASTE! They only give you limited Brunch items, M-F before 3 PM annnnnnd they take FOREVER to bring out the items. We did simple items to start like Scrambled Eggs, Bacon and French Toast. I did the Biscuits and Gravy. They weren't great, but for $19.99 it was fair value. So we finished our first plates and asked for Chili, Mac n Cheese... they took 40 minutes to bring it out and it was cold! Then someone else ordered Avocado toast and Steak & Eggs so they tried to give us THAT food as a way to make up for screwing up. Both plates were COLD and terrible. We paid the tab and never went back to Guy's for this supposed Deal! I'm sure the kitchen staff is busy and will forget things, but we asked 3 times and kept glancing at the waiter when he walked by without our 2nd plates. This is just a bad idea and we experienced first hand how it can go wrong!

[Tellafriend]

3) Waitresses can't bring you more than 1 drink at a time? I would FULLY understand if this was just for alcohol, but apparently it's applicable to soda, coffee and non-alcoholic drinks too. I usually overtip waitresses anyway, and they NEVER had an issue giving me two cups of tea and a coffee at most casinos. Am I trying to avoid paying $11 for each of those? Sure, but I am playing the ETG and slots to EARN those drinks and they should really not be so strict about the 1 beverage limit for Non-alcoholic items! Beer, Liquor and Hard drinks... absolutely 1 per player. Coffee, Tea and Water... lighten the Fuck up!

what is your first tip when she brings you a drink? and which casino?

[Dive_Bar_Dave]

Vegas Pauly C says the explosion of the prediction market is going to decapitate Vegas.

(10 mins in):

[Dive_Bar_Dave]

3) Waitresses can't bring you more than 1 drink at a time? I would FULLY understand if this was just for alcohol, but apparently it's applicable to soda, coffee and non-alcoholic drinks too. I usually overtip waitresses anyway, and they NEVER had an issue giving me two cups of tea and a coffee at most casinos. Am I trying to avoid paying $11 for each of those? Sure, but I am playing the ETG and slots to EARN those drinks and they should really not be so strict about the 1 beverage limit for Non-alcoholic items! Beer, Liquor and Hard drinks... absolutely 1 per player. Coffee, Tea and Water... lighten the Fuck up!

what is your first tip when she brings you a drink? and which casino?

Last time I played poker at Caesar's, I couldn't get more than 1 drink per hour and it was watered-down. So I couldn't catch a buzz. I was like, am I in Vegas or Boringsville?