Vegas is Struggling in 2025

[The Boz]

I’m truly shocked (should I be?) at how what should be a semi intelligent group falls for clickbait scams for engagement so easily.

Druff is 10000% right on what he posted, plane cannot move with overheads open. Why DR would even try and claim this was “probably” just before takeoff amazes me.

Part 2 of this is the reality that UA would never fly a plane this empty from Jersey when they do it multiple times a day. The flight would be cancelled and the few passengers moved to a later flight. PERIOD.

Here is today’s United schedule from Liberty showing 7, yes 7 flights from EWR to LAS. Also note this is the only airport they fly to Vegas out of from Jersey so it’s obviously the airport. They also flew 7 flights yesterday as well. You don’t do this when the planes are empty.

Thanks for making my point about the nonsense out there looking for clicks.




Edit: Just went on the United site which anyone can do and look at the available seating on all 7 flights today. Every flight is well over 50% full with few FC seats available across the 7. Basic economy style tickets are available starting at $139 one way, which isn’t bad for a cross country flight last minute.

[garrett]

Love seeing Spirit Air, used to be the only Flight to fly into Atlantic City Intl Airport

Flew from Florida to A.C. on Spirit many times for as low as $49 one way, soo cheap dont pay for a bag etc..

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/lucky_burglar/status/1805014732623007911

Think now Spirit also flys into Newark which is part of the Port Authority and A.C. intl down South is not

[desertrunner]

Very first detail- My platform here was there are not many full flights from NJ to Vegas. Next, I did not care enough about the picture to deep dive into it, but since Druff made some false assumptions here that wrongfully labeled me here, I have to respond, even thought its a waste of my time and I just dont care enough.

First- None of were there, so its all assumption at this point. BUT i do believe that most flights from NJ to Vegas on a holiday weekend are going to be empty.

Second- I too have flown alot and been on some empty flights. Usually you can tell the scene of the plane as they pre-board and do inflight checks. In this instant, maybe the announcements were made and the final cabin secure was about to be done, we will never know.If youve ever flown, the flight crew makes a series of announcements and then takes action. There is a passenger in front of the camera man all settled in, so that leads me to believe all passengers have boarded and some per-instructions were given.

But I know how Druff is and he assumes most other people are dumb and thats ok, but I did not "fall for any bait here", I only assumed most or all flights from NJ to Vegas are empty at this current time, that is believable.

First off, I want to point out that I don't blame desertrunner for not noticing the details about the plane. Even Vital Vegas was fooled by this one at first, and he's typically very sharp regarding these things.

I never said I did not notice the details in the plane, that was something you assumed.I just didnt care to go deep on it and assumed most flights from NJ to Vegas are empty, which is most likely true.

But it's 100% a misleading picture. I've boarded a lot of planes in my life, and especially recently, I've been a first/business class passenger, so I get to board before almost everyone. Therefore, I know what a plane looks like just when boarding starts, and it's exactly like the pic in that tweet.

Most of do and looks like the passenger in front of the camera man is secured in. Maybe the passengers were all boarded and just then the FAs started to secure the cabin for take off, we will never know.

No Druff, respectfully youre wrong here and making up a conclusion to support your opinion. No where in the graphic does it say they are "mid-flight".

Its not fake news or engagement bait, the husband obviously took the picture as they were waiting to take off. I really dont think the husband on this particular flight had some "anti Vegas agenda" when taking a pic just for his wife. If you fly much, you can tell when boarding has completed and the crew is wrapping things up before gate departure.

Actually, no, I dont need to watch out for these things as it was not a "report" on X or Facebook. I'm pretty smart and can tell whats BS or not. Its obviously this guy just took a pre-depart pic and shared it this his wife and pretty sure he didnt have an agenda. Most people arent flying from NJ to Vegas anyways.

The husband definitely did NOT take the picture when they were waiting for takeoff. By FAA regulations, the cockpit doors must be closed and the overhead bins must all be shut, or the plane cannot move even one inch.

This is common sense and most of us know this, we are not being educated here. I was speaking in general, not specific. Obviously they were not moving or left the gate yet.

There is also ZERO evidence in this picture that the crew was wrapping anything up. This picture looks IDENTICAL to an empty plane just beginning to board.

Thats been my position so far.

There's an old saying, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

This woman claims that her husband is in a plane to Vegas which is almost empty, where just one other passenger can be seen. That would be highly unusual for Labor Day weekend. In order to believe this picture, we would need all of the following:

1) A picture of the plane with all the doors closed
2) Proof that it was taken on Labor Day weekend
3) Proof that it was taken on the way to Vegas

The picture provides none of these. It shows an almost-empty plane with one passenger sitting, with all the overhead bins open, and the cockpit doors open. That screams "early boarding".

Like I keep saying, my only platform is most or all planes from NJ to Vegas are probably empty.

This would be like me showing up at Dodger Stadium right when the gates open, being among the first 100 people to enter, and then taking a picture of the empty stadium. I could post, "Wow, nobody likes the Dodgers anymore! The games are empty! This is what happens when you keep losing to shitty teams!"

But that would be meaningless. The game might be sold out. The fact that I took a picture of an empty stadium right when the gate opens proves absolutely nothing about the attendance, and should be ignored. However, if I took a picture of today's game in the 5th inning, and the stadium looked almost empty, that would mean something.

This is true, but not the same as the airline situation. I still think not many people are traveling from NJ to Vegas right now. Again, that is my only stance on the topic. I do believe some random person took a pic of an empty plane during pre-board.

See the difference?

Always did and didnt need the example. You assumed to much here.

The problem is that a lot of people these days fill in the gaps in their head when they want to believe something. Rather than thinking critically and asking themselves, "Does this make sense? Could this be misleading? Could this be a hoax?", they bend their mind to the point where they can explain away any possible skepticism.

Yes, we saw this exact example in the anti-union posts in this same thread recently when I had to explain how the unions actually work to a few who were ignorant didnt understand it or how it all works. Now they know better.

I dealt with the same denial from liberal friends during the whole Jussie Smollett debacle. Anyone with common sense knew that there weren't two cartoonish white MAGA guys walking around at 2am in Chicago when it was 10 degrees outside, carrying a noose and bleach they could use to assault a random black guy. But I had left wing idiots trying to explain to me why it's "believable" this happened, and how "violent MAGA assholes are everywhere". I asked why Jussie was still holding the Subway sandwich when the police showed up at his apartment, and how the sandwich survived the attack. They couldn't explain it, but kept repeating, "This could've happened! I believe him!"

Yep, I get the same thing in real life and here on PFA.

Social media is full of bullshit. This includes left wing bullshit, right wing bullshit, and apolitical bullshit (this one being the latter). People try to get engagement and clicks because it makes them money and/or gets them attention. If you don't put your biases aside and think critically, you're gonna get fooled a lot.

Yep, we all know this and not as dumb as some assume. Ive been on the internet since the mid-1980s with the TRS-80, programming BASIC and doing the BBS's with my Atari 800XL computer.

[desertrunner]

I’m truly shocked (should I be?) at how what should be a semi intelligent group falls for clickbait scams for engagement so easily.

I really didnt fall for anything or click baits. Druff is an intelligent person and sometimes falls into that "everyone is stupid" mode. I know it from working in public safety, it happens.

Druff is 10000% right on what he posted, plane cannot move with overheads open. Why DR would even try and claim this was “probably” just before takeoff amazes me.

We all know this and it not something new that Druff dropped on us. I never made such a claim or statement. I said this was during passenger boarding. I never "claimed this was just before take off." Never said that.

Edit: Just went on the United site which anyone can do and look at the available seating on all 7 flights today. Every flight is well over 50% full with few FC seats available across the 7. Basic economy style tickets are available starting at $139 one way, which isn’t bad for a cross country flight last minute.

TODAY's flight schedule doesnt prove anything. We are talking about a previous flight that already happened. Different travel days and we dont know what airline was in the pic.

Yes, we all know this about a plane can not move, etc. As a person who has actually worked at airports in operations/CFR/ARFF, I know more about airport OPS and emergency response than anyone on this forum. I have more airport crash/rescue and emergency training than anyone else here. I have spent more time in an FAA tower and on the runways than anyone here. I have done more runway inspections than anyone here. I have issued more FAA NOTAMs than anyone here. I can tell you the exact emergency shutdown procedures for a commercial aircraft right now when no one here can- there are specific steps to take in the cockpit. I have talked to an FAA tower on the ICOM radio more than anyone else here. I have responded to more real airplane crashes in real life than anyone else here. I absolutely know airport and airplane procedures than Druff or anyone here.

Yes, I have flown empty flights in the past, even to Vegas. Yes, I know FAs boarding and pre-lfight announcements, procedures and when and how they secure the overhead bins and the cockpit. Yes, like Druff, I know when a plane can and cant move or take off for flight, I actually know more about the topic than him. NO- no one here knows what exactly took place on that plane when the pic was taken. Doesnt matter when or how many flights Druff took in the past, he doesnt 100% know.

The bottom line for me is- I am safely assuming that many flights from NJ to Vegas are empty or partially full. Thats it. No, I did not fall for any dumb person click bait- I didnt even comment of the picture posted. Druff actually took the bait when I didnt even post an opinion. Using common sense and critical thinking in the current economic climate, that any flight from NJ to Vegas might be empty or cancelled. We will never know in this case. But Druff is making some wild assumptions here and sometimes we got to call him out and bring him down from his "everyone is dumb" high horse.

Lastly, I just didnt care enough about this topic or pic to go this deep. Again, I do believe most flights from NJ to Vegas are going to be empty or cancelled, but NO one here knows for sure, we are all just assuming.

Quick add- Go back to post #315- I made NO comments on that picture posted. So every post by Druff or another member that says- "Desertrunner fell for it and I am surorised" is not true. All I did was post a pic and all of the comments, push back and assumptions by Druf were assumed or made up on his part. I never said a word or made a comment about the actual picture.

[garrett]

Hey everybody so what's going on in this thread

[lol wow]

also spirit flying into ac was elite when i had to live there rofl youd always have to layover in detroit or like fort lauderdale coming out of la but it worked

[Dan Druff]

also spirit flying into ac was elite when i had to live there rofl youd always have to layover in detroit or like fort lauderdale coming out of la but it worked

Don’t brag about spirit, it’s unbecoming of a guy who eats at Michelin star restaurants

[Dan Druff]

Again, it would be shocking for a plane on Labor Day weekend flying to Vegas to be almost completely empty.

Therefore, since this pic came from a random on the internet nobody knows or can trust, we need evidence.

A pic like that is not evidence. It could easily be right at the beginning of boarding. It could easily be from another week or month. It could easily be going elsewhere and not Vegas.

When there is zero evidence of some unlikely internet claim, I don’t believe the claim.

There’s no way for you to refute that.

[desertrunner]

Now that I have dismantled Druff's online attack of me when I actually never said a word about the sub-topic of a posted airplane picture. Can we please get back to the Las Vegas struggling topic?


Add-

Druff write-

Again, it would be shocking for a plane on Labor Day weekend flying to Vegas to be almost completely empty.

Therefore, since this pic came from a random on the internet nobody knows or can trust, we need evidence.

A pic like that is not evidence. It could easily be right at the beginning of boarding. It could easily be from another week or month. It could easily be going elsewhere and not Vegas.

When there is zero evidence of some unlikely internet claim, I don’t believe the claim.

There’s no way for you to refute that.

Except I never posted a word or opinion on the original picture. You attacked me and made all of these wild assumption. For all we know, I posted that and wanted to see who would take the bait.. Next time you should ask first before attacking someone. My opinion on the tpoic is just one thing- I believe flights from New Jersey to Las Vegas are either near-empty or cancelled due to the current situation in Las Vegas.

Again, I didnt care to deep dive on this super retarded topic, but since I was attacked in here, I just wasted a lot of time to dismantle the debate and clear my name. Again, I know more about airport ops than anyone in this forum (including Druff) and wont listen to anyone beneath me. Much like me trying to school Druff on poker, wont happen.

[Dive_Bar_Dave]

More reports:

Labor Day numbers down. Hope for future holidays and events.



Vegas news from Jacob. Taxpayer money for F1. CET & Wynn mask ban. Canadian visitors down. Low buyer demand for houses. And more.

[Dan Druff]

Except I never posted a word or opinion on the original picture. You attacked me and made all of these wild assumption. For all we know, I posted that and wanted to see who would take the bait.. Next time you should ask first before attacking someone. My opinion on the tpoic is just one thing- I believe flights from New Jersey to Las Vegas are either near-empty or cancelled due to the current situation in Las Vegas.

Again, I didnt care to deep dive on this super retarded topic, but since I was attacked in here, I just wasted a lot of time to dismantle the debate and clear my name. Again, I know more about airport ops than anyone in this forum (including Druff) and wont listen to anyone beneath me. Much like me trying to school Druff on poker, wont happen.

I think you believe I'm trying to say you were stupid to be fooled by the picture. That's not what I'm saying. On X, "Las Vegas Locally" and "Vital Vegas", two sharp guys, were both fooled by it initially.

It's easy to make that mistake if you just quickly look at the picture and don't examine it too closely.

It seems that now you're saying that you never asserted the picture meant anything, but you just feel that there's a lot of empty flights from New Jersey. What evidence do you have of this, besides that one engagement bait pic? If you had separate evidence that NJ-LV flights were empty, I would more understand your point.

This also isn't about airport ops. I will be the first to admit I only have minimal knowledge of the way they operate at airports, beyond various basic rules and procedures that passengers get to know. Were this about ground crew safety or fire regulations, I wouldn't try to debate you, as I know you've worked in those areas, and I haven't.

But this is separate from all that.

[desertrunner]

I think you believe I'm trying to say you were stupid to be fooled by the picture. That's not what I'm saying. On X, "Las Vegas Locally" and "Vital Vegas", two sharp guys, were both fooled by it initially.

Druff- I have read you saying this three times now and understand what you are trying to say. For the THIRD TIME NOW- NO I was NOT "fooled" by the picture. I totally understood the picture. BUT- the message to me based on the current information I know first-hand about Las Vegas- Tourism is down.

So if I had a conversation with a complete stranger and their message was- "I think tourism is down from New Jersey to Las Vegas"- I would agree with them. You still cant seem to understand that- I dont give a fuck about "Las Vegas Locally" or "Vital Vegas" or what they thought. To me, there one message of "Tourism is down from New Jersey to Las Vegas" is true and believable. That is all I'm saying, or cared about when I posted that. I did NOT fall or anything or was "fooled", I agree with the random message of- "Tourism is down from New Jersey to Las Vegas"- that believable based on all of my current knowledge and evidence.

It's easy to make that mistake if you just quickly look at the picture and don't examine it too closely.

You assume that. Not everyone is as dumb as you think they are, I know that's a hard pill to swallow. I honestly saw the details in the picture and did not care. Now that I look at the picture, it tells a story that I can break down since I have flown so much in the past. The posted picture does tell a story and if anyone knows specific flight operations, it could mean a few different things, as I have already explained.

Again, I have flown that EXACT situation in real life before- Only two of us on the entire plane, boarding instructions have been verbally given, my friend and I comment that we are the only ones on the plane, we then see the FAs close all of the overhead bins, we then see the pilot close the cock pit door, we then clear the ramp, we then taxi, then then take off. I have actually LIVED and FLOWN the situation in the picture, but not saying if the actual picture is fake or not. So when you say it cant be true, I called BS because I have actually lived and flown that exact situation before in real life and guess what- its no big fucking deal, no one cares. But YES, I have lived that picture in real life flying, several times, its no big deal.

To be clear- When you are dating a veteran flight attendant for 11 years, you get to fly for free alot, but at odd times, dead head, red eye, etc. I have flown alot, seen alot and its no big deal.

It seems that now you're saying that you never asserted the picture meant anything, but you just feel that there's a lot of empty flights from New Jersey. What evidence do you have of this, besides that one engagement bait pic? If you had separate evidence that NJ-LV flights were empty, I would more understand your point.

Again, I felt that the stranger's message to me was that tourism is down between New Jersey and Las Vegas. Based on the YEARS of research I have done and all of the evidence I have seen in the last few months, that appears to be a reasonable conclusion.

This also isn't about airport ops. I will be the first to admit I only have minimal knowledge of the way they operate at airports, beyond various basic rules and procedures that passengers get to know. Were this about ground crew safety or fire regulations, I wouldn't try to debate you, as I know you've worked in those areas, and I haven't.

Dont know how else to best say this, but I will try- All of the airplane knowledge you dropped on us here (cargo doors open, cockpit door open, airplane wont move unless something is secured) is all basic knowledge and something I already knew. Its like me explaining the basics of Poker to you. Everything you wrote here is common knowledge to me, but you felt I/we were so dumb,m you were educating us,

I had to drop the airport ops background here to finally show you- I/we are not as dense as you think. I even dated a flight attendant for 11 years, she has told me more technical data and operational things than you wrote here. I am sorry, you wanted to do a deep dive on airport and inflight operations, to me,I already knew what you were trying to educate me on and I know far more than you. I dont know any other way to explain this to you. Its just like Poker, if I tried to explain the game to you....you get the idea.

But this is separate from all that.

It is. Again, I have clearly explained my take on the picture atleast 3/4 times now.

Just so we are clear, I will summarize one more time because its going to come up again, I know it.

1. I believe the message in the picture- Flights from New Jersey to Las Vegas are down because tourism is down in Vegas, this is believable.

2. I did not fall for or "fooled" by any click bait in the picture. I have lived and flown the picture in REAL LIFE many times and its not a big deal .YES, I have been 1 of 2 people in the back of a commercial airliner with the bins up and cockpit door open. Once the bins and door closed, we took off in our plane and laughed at how we were the only 2 people on the entire airplane. Did thus many times, its not a brag or a big deal, its happened alot for me. Is it common- No, but have done it in real life.

3. All of the airline and airport operations and things Druff described are common knowledge to me and common sense to most. Its nothing special. I can tell you the order we shut down the 747 cockpit in an emergency if needed and even tell you the airplane to tower VHF/UHF frequency range the plane is using and its no big deal.

Druff- I know the situation only plays out one way in your head and you just cant understand why I cant see it your way. Ive had this conversation many times with many people- You can not assign feelings to other people just to fit your agenda, especially on the internet.

Hope this closes this sub-topic.

[1dollarboxcar]

Druff- I have read you saying this three times now and understand what you are trying to say. For the THIRD TIME NOW- NO I was NOT "fooled" by the picture. I totally understood the picture. BUT- the message to me based on the current information I know first-hand about Las Vegas- Tourism is down.

So if I had a conversation with a complete stranger and their message was- "I think tourism is down from New Jersey to Las Vegas"- I would agree with them. You still cant seem to understand that- I dont give a fuck about "Las Vegas Locally" or "Vital Vegas" or what they thought. To me, there one message of "Tourism is down from New Jersey to Las Vegas" is true and believable. That is all I'm saying, or cared about when I posted that. I did NOT fall or anything or was "fooled", I agree with the random message of- "Tourism is down from New Jersey to Las Vegas"- that believable based on all of my current knowledge and evidence.

It's easy to make that mistake if you just quickly look at the picture and don't examine it too closely.

You assume that. Not everyone is as dumb as you think they are, I know that's a hard pill to swallow. I honestly saw the details in the picture and did not care. Now that I look at the picture, it tells a story that I can break down since I have flown so much in the past. The posted picture does tell a story and if anyone knows specific flight operations, it could mean a few different things, as I have already explained.

Again, I have flown that EXACT situation in real life before- Only two of us on the entire plane, boarding instructions have been verbally given, my friend and I comment that we are the only ones on the plane, we then see the FAs close all of the overhead bins, we then see the pilot close the cock pit door, we then clear the ramp, we then taxi, then then take off. I have actually LIVED and FLOWN the situation in the picture, but not saying if the actual picture is fake or not. So when you say it cant be true, I called BS because I have actually lived and flown that exact situation before in real life and guess what- its no big fucking deal, no one cares. But YES, I have lived that picture in real life flying, several times, its no big deal.

To be clear- When you are dating a veteran flight attendant for 11 years, you get to fly for free alot, but at odd times, dead head, red eye, etc. I have flown alot, seen alot and its no big deal.

It seems that now you're saying that you never asserted the picture meant anything, but you just feel that there's a lot of empty flights from New Jersey. What evidence do you have of this, besides that one engagement bait pic? If you had separate evidence that NJ-LV flights were empty, I would more understand your point.

Again, I felt that the stranger's message to me was that tourism is down between New Jersey and Las Vegas. Based on the YEARS of research I have done and all of the evidence I have seen in the last few months, that appears to be a reasonable conclusion.

This also isn't about airport ops. I will be the first to admit I only have minimal knowledge of the way they operate at airports, beyond various basic rules and procedures that passengers get to know. Were this about ground crew safety or fire regulations, I wouldn't try to debate you, as I know you've worked in those areas, and I haven't.

Dont know how else to best say this, but I will try- All of the airplane knowledge you dropped on us here (cargo doors open, cockpit door open, airplane wont move unless something is secured) is all basic knowledge and something I already knew. Its like me explaining the basics of Poker to you. Everything you wrote here is common knowledge to me, but you felt I/we were so dumb,m you were educating us,

I had to drop the airport ops background here to finally show you- I/we are not as dense as you think. I even dated a flight attendant for 11 years, she has told me more technical data and operational things than you wrote here. I am sorry, you wanted to do a deep dive on airport and inflight operations, to me,I already knew what you were trying to educate me on and I know far more than you. I dont know any other way to explain this to you. Its just like Poker, if I tried to explain the game to you....you get the idea.

But this is separate from all that.

It is. Again, I have clearly explained my take on the picture atleast 3/4 times now.

Just so we are clear, I will summarize one more time because its going to come up again, I know it.

1. I believe the message in the picture- Flights from New Jersey to Las Vegas are down because tourism is down in Vegas, this is believable.

2. I did not fall for or "fooled" by any click bait in the picture. I have lived and flown the picture in REAL LIFE many times and its not a big deal .YES, I have been 1 of 2 people in the back of a commercial airliner with the bins up and cockpit door open. Once the bins and door closed, we took off in our plane and laughed at how we were the only 2 people on the entire airplane. Did thus many times, its not a brag or a big deal, its happened alot for me. Is it common- No, but have done it in real life.

3. All of the airline and airport operations and things Druff described are common knowledge to me and common sense to most. Its nothing special. I can tell you the order we shut down the 747 cockpit in an emergency if needed and even tell you the airplane to tower VHF/UHF frequency range the plane is using and its no big deal.

Druff- I know the situation only plays out one way in your head and you just cant understand why I cant see it your way. Ive had this conversation many times with many people- You can not assign feelings to other people just to fit your agenda, especially on the internet.

Hope this closes this sub-topic.

bro please... https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...=1#post1164125

[desertrunner]

bro please... https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...=1#post1164125

Dude, STFU. All I did was post a picture with no commentary in Post #315 and got attacked here by Druff. And then after explaining myself twice, he keeps coming back with "No, no...You really fell for this because so and so did and you took the bait..." How many times do I have to keep telling the guy how I posted a picture with no commentary and he keeps telling me how I really fell for it- over and over. Ive ended the sub-topic twice now and it keeps coming up by someone else.

Seriously, STFU.

1dollarboxcar: probably should just adhere to the advice bro...

I think you should do the exact same thing I have told you twice now.

Add- I just found this from Post #315-

The Boz: Note cockpit door is still open, can’t be “waiting to takeoff”.

Note- I didnt mean "take off" from the airport, I meant depart from the ramp, I should have been more clear, but I also didnt expect this sub-topic to blow up. . But I have already broken down the picture and proved that it could be real as that scenario has been played out in real life so many times.

Can we get back to the main topic now? I really dont need to be told a 4th time that I got fooled by click bait when I really didnt.

[BCR]

Druff wrote-

Fake news.

It's engagement bait.

Look at the plane again. The overhead bins are all open. Cockpit door is open. This is early boarding, and someone took the pic to create engagement or controversy on X. There's a reason that the dude didn't take the pic mid-flight.

This is the type of stuff you have to watch out for when you're seeing "reports" on X or Facebook.

No Druff, respectfully youre wrong here and making up a conclusion to support your opinion. No where in the graphic does it say they are "mid-flight".

Its not fake news or engagement bait, the husband obviously took the picture as they were waiting to take off. I really dont think the husband on this particular flight had some "anti Vegas agenda" when taking a pic just for his wife. If you fly much, you can tell when boarding has completed and the crew is wrapping things up before gate departure.

Actually, no, I dont need to watch out for these things as it was not a "report" on X or Facebook. I'm pretty smart and can tell whats BS or not.Its obviously this guy just took a pre-depart pic and shared it this his wife and pretty sure he didnt have an agenda. Most people arent flying from NJ to Vegas anyways.

[Dan Druff]

I don't want to continue this debate about the picture because it's pointless. However, I'll give this one more shot.

desertrunner, if you want to assert that tourism in Las Vegas is down, and that New Jersey one of the states which is feeding fewer visitors to the area compared to 2024, I'll agree with you.

If you want to assert that the decline is primarily due to Vegas' corporate overlords being too greedy, and cooking out the fun/affordability factor for the lower and middle income visitors, I'll agree with you again.

If you want to assert that some flights to Vegas, including from New Jersey, might be emptier or cheaper than they were for the same dates in 2024, I will say that there's a good chance that's correct.

However, there's a difference between 10% down and a plane with 2 passengers.

I compare this situation to the 2025 Snow White remake, and the posts we saw from right wingers on social media "proving" how badly it was failing.

Snow White INDEED failed. It DID lose money. It was a flop, and an embarrassment for Disney.

However, many of the pics posted on right wing social media of empty theaters were highly misleading. A lot of those were taken by people who got there early, probably specifically to get engagement bait. A lot of the screen shots of movie theater apps showing almost all seats available were also misleading. They were either captured too far in advance (most people don't book movie tickets more than 2 days out), or for showtimes unlikely to appeal to families, such as 10:30pm.

So there we had two things true at once: Snow White was an embarrassing woke failure, but also social media was full of dishonest right wingers who posted phony "evidence" proving it.




The same thing is true about that picture of the empty plane. While I don't doubt that bookings from New Jersey were down, they weren't THAT far down, and that picture was VERY dubious for the reasons I already stated. It was an asshole utilizing engagement bait, and not someone honestly trying to present evidence to add to the conversation.

If you would like to finally agree that the picture was highly likely misleading and taken in the early boarding stages, while also agreeing that Vegas has shot itself in the foot and has a tourism volume problem, we can agree.

Just because you've flown on empty planes means nothing. Hell, the plane I took from LA to Vegas in June was mostly empty, but there was a reason for it! It was a Wednesday night at midnight! I didn't read anything into that, nor did I snap pictures for clickbait. If I wanted to be an misleading asshole trying to get engagement, I could've snapped a picture mid-flight and said "OMG LOOK HOW EMPTY, VEGAS IS DEAD", but I am above that type of yellow journalism. I like reporting the facts. This is why I call out bullshit artists no matter what the topic, including those on the political right.

[The Boz]

Hate to beat someone when they are down but DR is still keeping it up with this type nonsense.

“ I believe flights from New Jersey to Las Vegas are either near-empty or cancelled due to the current situation in Las Vegas.”

All 7 United flights from EWR in Jersey to LAS flew as scheduled yesterday (not cancelled) and are all scheduled today. Here is today’s seats available on 2 flights, certainly not full but also “near-empty”. Note the available seats in blue are paid seat selections unless you have status. One could say “but this is a holiday”, first the argument was Vegas is dead and NOBODY goes there anymore and 2nd who from Vegas goes to Jersey for vacation?

[desertrunner]

Hate to beat someone when they are down but DR is still keeping it up with this type nonsense.

“ I believe flights from New Jersey to Las Vegas are either near-empty or cancelled due to the current situation in Las Vegas.”

All 7 United flights from EWR in Jersey to LAS flew as scheduled yesterday (not cancelled) and are all scheduled today. Here is today’s seats available on 2 flights, certainly not full but also “near-empty”. Note the available seats in blue are paid seat selections unless you have status. One could say “but this is a holiday”, first the argument was Vegas is dead and NOBODY goes there anymore and 2nd who from Vegas goes to Jersey for vacation?

The Boz- Respectfully, please stop posting flight schedule and seat assignments, they absolutely do not prove anything. Your absolutely reaching, guessing and throwing mud against the wall hoping something sticks and suddenly I am going to stop and agree, I'm not. You can post all of the after event schedules and seat maps you want, but it doesnt change past history.

What ever happened "yesterday" does not dictate or define what happened days earlier. Example- I was on the freeway Thursday night, so traffic on Friday and Saturday absolutely must mirror what happened on Thursday based on these freeway cam videos. Totally irrelevant and non-related.

Yes, I know you dont believe in the "Las Vegas tourism is down" idea, so youre going obviously counter the airplane picture and dismiss it as fake, when there is no way to can prove it. Youre in the same boat as Druff, absolutely can NOT prove anything, so making assumptions and guesses to dismantle the opposing side. Hint- using the internet tactic of- "because I say so" is lame and just doesnt work.

Please just stop with the flight schedules and seating charts, they do not prove anything. I will be back later on today and will dismantle Druff's post here to the point he wont response to it anymore and we can finally move on in this thread.

[The Boz]

Dude, I’ll post whatever the fuck I want. And yes they do prove a point, flights haven’t been cancelled as you claimed and they aren’t empty. And United which earned 1.2 BILLION in Q2 isn’t flying 7 flights a day to Vegas if they are empty. You said they are either empty or being cancelled from Jersey, this post shows they aren’t being cancelled. There is nothing debatable here, but feel free to keep trying, it’s what this forum is for.

My next post will show FUTURE flights available seats since you claimed past results prove nothing although you have been claiming Vegas is dead for a while now.

As for the original topic, this is as relevant as it gets. YES, prices are too high and it’s hurting the low end customers. But NO, the town isn’t dead, “no one is coming” is bullshit and it’s not empty.

[The Boz]

As for the future, here is this Friday, September 5th from Jersey to Vegas. Certainly NOT past results that you claimed prove nothing. Note these are the first FIVE, yes 5 flights of the day with more later in the day. Would you say they are “empty or being cancelled”? Why is United flying this many planes is “No one is going to Vegas anymore)?

All are at a minimum 3/4 full and I’m only showing the back of main cabin, on most first class is full or near full.

And yes, these do prove a point from Jersey which is where the fake clickbait photo claimed to be from. What city should we do this exercise from next?