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Thread: WNBA popularity, jealousy, and low salaries

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    WNBA popularity, jealousy, and low salaries

    For many years, nobody on PFA gave a shit about the WNBA. And that's because nobody in the world gave a shit about the WNBA. The NBA has been subsidizing it since inception, as the league has lost money every single year.

    As a result, the players have been paid peanuts. The women have been told that, since the league loses money, proper salaries can't be provided. The women play anyway because they have other opportunities to make money via endorsements, public appearances, etc. Still, the typical WNBA player is not rich by any stretch of the imagination.

    Then came Caitlin Clark. A superstar at Iowa, there was growing attention upon her, and some were eagerly awaiting her foray into the WNBA. In 2024, after graduating from Iowa, Caitlin joined the Indiana Fever, and made an instant splash. All of a sudden, the world was paying attention to the WNBA for the first time ever.

    It was more than Caitlin's skill which brought her attention. Unlike most of the WNBA, which is comprised of women who are black, masculine, and lesbian, Clark is white, straight, and feminine. Despite the attention she single-handedly brought to the otherwise ignored league, many of the other players resented her, alleging that the new group of fans were racist, homophobic, or both. They were angry it it took a feminine hetero white player for people to want to care about the sport. Caitlin was on the receiving end of many hard fouls, some of which were believed to have been fueled by this resentment.




    However, another white WNBA player has also enjoyed popularity this year. Sophie Cunningham is not a new player. She's been in the WNBA since 2019, but was virtually ignored until 2025, when she joined Clark on the Indiana Fever. A video of Cunninghan gained viral attention when she was seen throwing an opponent to the ground as retaliation for poking Clark earlier in the game. Dudes on the internet instantly noticed Cunningham's long blonde hair and model-like figure. Cunningham capitalized on the moment by taking and posting modeling pictures, wearing short dresses and high heels. This was a huge hit, and she instantly had tons of new male fans from around the world.





    Between Clark's skill and Cunningham's beauty, the WNBA is more popular than ever. Clark is currently injured and hasn't played as well this year in the 13 games when she's appeared, but even in her absence (and possible failure to return in 2025), she has brought a huge new fanbase to the WNBA, with the help of teammate Cunningham.

    How much of an impact have Clark and Cunningham made? In 2023, the league attendance was 1.587 million. In 2024, it was 2.353 million. In 2025, it is projected to be around 3.18 milion, averaging over 11,000 per game. That means Clark and Cunningham effectively doubled leaguewide attendance in just 2 seasons.

    This has led to fellow players demanding a raise, given that their current salaries range from $66k to $249k, and average $109k. They feel that, as professional athletes playing televised games in big arenas, they are wildly underpaid, especially with all of the new WNBA fans in 2024-25.

    Will the WNBA make money in 2025? I don't know. But I agree with the players that it's time to pay them better. They obviously can't be paid like their NBA counterparts (for a huge multitude of reasons), but clearly it's a joke that some players are making $66k. By comparison, teenage girls flipping burgers at In-N-Out are making $46k minimum.



    But what about the racism and homophobia allegations? Is it true that people only care about the WNBA now because two white, heterosexual stars have been identified -- one highly skilled, and the other very pretty?

    Yes, but it's not due to any racism or homophobia. First, dudes are the main consumers of sports, and dudes like looking at attractive women. Clark isn't beautiful, but she's young, feminine, and highly skilled, so guys took notice. Cunningham looks like a model, and her recent story of protecting the oft-abused Clark got her a lot of initial positive attention. In a perfect world, dudes would want to watch butch lesbians play basketball as much as they enjoy watching attractive, feminine women, but that's simply not how things actually work.

    Additionally, Clark and Cunningham being white and feminine makes them stand out, in a league where that is uncommon. This is the reverse factor of what made Tiger Woods so notable in the golf world. It's true that Clark wouldn't have gotten nearly as much attention if she were black and/or butch, but that's because she would be too much like all the other good WNBA players who had passed through the league. People took notice of her because of her atypical demographic. This, by extension, later caused people to notice 2025 teammate Cunningham, who had previously stayed under the radar for 6 years, because nobody was caring about the WNBA.

    Even in poker, this occurs. People took notice of Leo Margets making the WSOP Main Event final table because she was the first female to do so in the modern era. If she were a dude, nobody would have paid attention to her more than any of the other final tablists.


    I will also say that the women in the WNBA who resent Clark and Cunningham also have themselves to blame. The WNBA is a form of entertainment. The players have a right to say, "I don't care if people want to watch feminine women playing basketball, I'm naturally more comfortable being butch, and I'm not going to conform to the stereotype." But then the viewers -- especially the male ones -- have a right not to watch. If you're part of providing an entertainment product, you are selling yourself. If you decide that pride comes ahead of putting yourself in a more conventionally attractive package, that's your prerogative, but it's also going to make you (and by extension the league) less marketable. Up until recently, the WNBA's fan base was mostly feminists and lesbians. The massive new interest in the league is largely coming from men, with also some increase from heterosexual women who enjoy seeing some stars who remind them more of themselves.

    But is this also about race, beyond just the novelty? Maybe. In general, white men are typically more attracted to white women than black women. The notice taken of Clark and Cunningham may not have occurred if both were black. However, I still maintain that attractive, feminine black women could also accomplish the same popularity, but this just hasn't been the norm in the WNBA. Prior to 2024, it became almost a meme that the WNBA was a league of butch black lesbians. That's not the best look if you want to attract a mass sports audience. If a black player in the league resembled Beyonce, do you think she'd be popular? Obviously.

    Still, it's amusing to see so many leftists clutching pearls that the new WNBA fans are racist, and also claiming sports media is racist for promoting the new white stars.

    I do agree that the players need a raise, though. They're criminally underpaid at this point.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't show a video of the dildos being thrown on court:

    Here's one hitting Sophie Cunningham:

    https://twitter.com/TheNBACentel/status/1952925662093742321


    Some leftists are also crying about this, claiming it's MAGA types who are trying to "degrade successful women".

    Bullshit.

    While not certain, the prevailing theory is that this is being done by owners of a memecoin called "Green Dildo Coin", attempting to drive up its value. Even if this isn't the source, it's highly unlikely to be some form of gender-related harassment against the women.

    Some even believe the dildos are a net positive for the league, as it's getting the games even more attention.

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    Platinum 1dollarboxcar's Avatar
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    good write up, a lot of truth in there... Libs and the woke culture ruin everything, name me one thing they have made better in recent years, if you can name 1 thing it has been driven away by 99 other things that they have touched...

    imo they can't have a raise until they are profitable or at least break even, every player under contract should then get an equal % of this new revenue, but the Libs will fight about that too and would play the race card claiming that the players are mostly black and they deserve a bigger %... they would just find a way to fuck it up somehow or another... i don't know what the WNBA needs to do to bring up attendance but maybe trying some pre or post game type of shows or concerts...?? idk...

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    Platinum nunbeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Clark isn't beautiful
    you shut your filthy whore FUCKING MOUTH

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1dollarboxcar View Post
    good write up, a lot of truth in there... Libs and the woke culture ruin everything, name me one thing they have made better in recent years, if you can name 1 thing it has been driven away by 99 other things that they have touched...

    imo they can't have a raise until they are profitable or at least break even, every player under contract should then get an equal % of this new revenue, but the Libs will fight about that too and would play the race card claiming that the players are mostly black and they deserve a bigger %... they would just find a way to fuck it up somehow or another... i don't know what the WNBA needs to do to bring up attendance but maybe trying some pre or post game type of shows or concerts...?? idk...
    The problem is that team owners like to cook the books and claim they're "losing money" when they really aren't. This goes on across all professional sports.

    By your logic of, "The team has to be profitable before they give the women a raise", NBA/MLB/NFL players should also get extremely low salaries if the team is losing money. But obviously that's not correct.

    Any professional athletes appearing in big arenas and playing in televised games should get paid for more than what the current players are making. This is especially true because athletic careers have a short window, even for the very best players.

    It was more justifiable to barely pay them when the league was completely ignored by everyone except some niche fans. Now that it's getting mainstream attention, they should definitely be making more.

     
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      mickeycrimm: Merch is a different set of books the owners dont talk about

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      1dollarboxcar: nice, i guess Sanotine won't be going to Arbys anymore...??

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    Platinum JimmyG_415's Avatar
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    No what is bullshit is you pulling a typical RW propagandist move and making shit up out of whole cloth. (With quotes and everything.)
    I googled 'leftist claims that maga are throwing dildos at wnba games to "degrade successful women" '.
    this was the result..........................................Wh at the WNBA should do is say transgenders are eligible, then they get 24/7 coverage on Fox "news".
    I just don't get why the right can't make one point w/out lying.
    Name:  leftist.png
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't show a video of the dildos being thrown on court:

    Here's one hitting Sophie Cunningham:

    https://twitter.com/TheNBACentel/status/1952925662093742321


    Some leftists are also crying about this, claiming it's MAGA types who are trying to "degrade successful women".

    Bullshit.

    While not certain, the prevailing theory is that this is being done by owners of a memecoin called "Green Dildo Coin", attempting to drive up its value. Even if this isn't the source, it's highly unlikely to be some form of gender-related harassment against the women.

    Some even believe the dildos are a net positive for the league, as it's getting the games even more attention.
    San Francisco crowned the ‘world’s best’ city to live: survey
    https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/...o-live-survey/

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    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    The W will not make money this year, but it will starting next year with the media deal. Conveniently for the players, the current CBA ends this year. They will get a much more fair cut when its all said and done, but unlike the shirts they were recently wearing, they aren't "owed" anything.

    Russia/Ukraine really fucked over many of their main incomes, as the Russian teams would pay 2x-5x higher than the W. Not that Russians care about womens basketball, but its a good money laundering device for the team owner mobsters.

    Caitlin/Angel Reese rivalry really helped propel it, not just Caitlin herself. A lot of Bird/Magic comparisons here, race obviously the most noticeable but their entire personas eerily mirror those two.

    Admittedly, the league not being 90% carpet-munchers anymore is another big propellent for popularity. The hot ones know and are already capitalizing. Sophie Cunningham is a mildly competent player. That is being as nice as possible. After riding the bench for Phoenix where the star players were super-dykes Griner and Taurasi, she made sure to flock to Clarks team in free agency. Now she has a podcast deal with Cowherd's company and other endorsements. Barstool tried to get her but, according to Portnoy, her agent wouldn't budge on $$$$.

    Better ownership in some situations has helped also. New York Liberty existed for 20 years as just a James Dolan tax write-off, until he sold to Tsai (Nets owner) and he has prioritized the team. This years expansion Golden State team, owned by Warriors owner Lacob, is already the highest valued franchise in the league.

     
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      Dan Druff:

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    This fad will fade as quick as it started. Just like women's boxing, soccer, etc.. Yeah super hot players that will get attention will always exist, but the game is still unwatchable. Reminds me of the NASCAR craze 25 years ago, networks fighting for TV contracts, now its one of the least watched sports programming out there. The WNBA will be back to giving tickets away in a couple years.

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    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgull View Post
    This fad will fade as quick as it started. Just like women's boxing, soccer, etc.. Yeah super hot players that will get attention will always exist, but the game is still unwatchable. Reminds me of the NASCAR craze 25 years ago, networks fighting for TV contracts, now its one of the least watched sports programming out there. The WNBA will be back to giving tickets away in a couple years.
    Depends on the state of the NBA, IMO. Previously, no woman could emulate the game of a Jordan, Lebron, or Shaq. Look at the biggest stars of the last 7 years though. Steph Curry and Jokic have styles that women can emulate.

    The way the men play has moved closer to the way women play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tgull View Post
    This fad will fade as quick as it started. Just like women's boxing, soccer, etc.. Yeah super hot players that will get attention will always exist, but the game is still unwatchable. Reminds me of the NASCAR craze 25 years ago, networks fighting for TV contracts, now its one of the least watched sports programming out there. The WNBA will be back to giving tickets away in a couple years.
    Depends on the state of the NBA, IMO. Previously, no woman could emulate the game of a Jordan, Lebron, or Shaq. Look at the biggest stars of the last 7 years though. Steph Curry and Jokic have styles that women can emulate.

    The way the men play has moved closer to the way women play.
    One of the more woke posts in quite a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    No what is bullshit is you pulling a typical RW propagandist move and making shit up out of whole cloth. (With quotes and everything.)
    I googled 'leftist claims that maga are throwing dildos at wnba games to "degrade successful women" '.
    this was the result..........................................Wh at the WNBA should do is say transgenders are eligible, then they get 24/7 coverage on Fox "news".
    I just don't get why the right can't make one point w/out lying.
    Name:  leftist.png
Views: 146
Size:  89.5 KB

    PFA blowing up huge on Google.

    Glad to see SF Jimmy is back with his crazy left wing rants.

    I have actually seen this claimed several times on Facebook, which is part of the reason I made this thread.

    A transgender already plays in the WNBA -- Brittney Griner.

     
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      1dollarboxcar: true shit... +++
      
      The Boz: Jimmy always good for a far left wrong take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Admittedly, the league not being 90% carpet-munchers anymore is another big propellent for popularity. The hot ones know and are already capitalizing. Sophie Cunningham is a mildly competent player. That is being as nice as possible. After riding the bench for Phoenix where the star players were super-dykes Griner and Taurasi, she made sure to flock to Clarks team in free agency. Now she has a podcast deal with Cowherd's company and other endorsements. Barstool tried to get her but, according to Portnoy, her agent wouldn't budge on $$$$.
    When Cunningham started posing for pictures "outside the arena" wearing short skirts and heels, I must admit I was surprised to see it. I had never seen anyone in the WNBA do anything like this before. It had always been a league of butch lesbians, and the attractive/feminine players were all expected to tone down their sexuality and never flaunt their looks.

    It was more than "oh wow, look at this leggy blonde protecting Caitlin Clark", it was, "Hey, now that y'all noticed me, check out how hot my legs look when I'm dressed up!"

    But good for her. Not only does this earn her far more money (after 6 years of obscurity), but it helps the entire league. Amazing how it's just being discovered in the WNBA that pretty girls garner attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgull View Post
    This fad will fade as quick as it started. Just like women's boxing, soccer, etc.. Yeah super hot players that will get attention will always exist, but the game is still unwatchable. Reminds me of the NASCAR craze 25 years ago, networks fighting for TV contracts, now its one of the least watched sports programming out there. The WNBA will be back to giving tickets away in a couple years.
    Not looking for an argument but NASCAR still beats all other sports on non football or NCAA tournament weekends. Definitely not what it was in the early 00’s but it’s still getting big TV money utilizing streaming like Amazon. Here are last weeks numbers….

    “ The NASCAR Cup Series race on Sunday at Iowa Speedway drew 2.174 million viewers on USA Network according to Adam Stern of Sports Business Journal.

    It was still the most viewed sports event of the day.

    On the other hand, the Xfinity Series race on Saturday drew 1.008 overall viewers on the CW Network. Every Xfinity Series race that ran on time this year has drawn over a million viewers on the over-the-air channel. Some superlatives offered by the channel have been listed below:

    Most-watched Xfinity Series race from Iowa since June 2018

    Viewership up +23% compared to last year’s 22nd race from Daytona (8/23/24 on USA)

    Audience up +16% compared to last Xfinity Series Iowa race (6/15/24 on USA)”

    And still bringing in big bucks.

    “ NASCAR is banking on it. As for alienating longtime fans, that probability was surely baked into the decision do business with Amazon. Also, Prime is reportedly paying a little more than a billion bucks for its piece of seven-year deal worth $7.7 billion overall.”

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    Platinum 1dollarboxcar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tgull View Post
    This fad will fade as quick as it started. Just like women's boxing, soccer, etc.. Yeah super hot players that will get attention will always exist, but the game is still unwatchable. Reminds me of the NASCAR craze 25 years ago, networks fighting for TV contracts, now its one of the least watched sports programming out there. The WNBA will be back to giving tickets away in a couple years.
    Not looking for an argument but NASCAR still beats all other sports on non football or NCAA tournament weekends. Definitely not what it was in the early 00’s but it’s still getting big TV money utilizing streaming like Amazon. Here are last weeks numbers….

    “ The NASCAR Cup Series race on Sunday at Iowa Speedway drew 2.174 million viewers on USA Network according to Adam Stern of Sports Business Journal.

    It was still the most viewed sports event of the day.

    On the other hand, the Xfinity Series race on Saturday drew 1.008 overall viewers on the CW Network. Every Xfinity Series race that ran on time this year has drawn over a million viewers on the over-the-air channel. Some superlatives offered by the channel have been listed below:

    Most-watched Xfinity Series race from Iowa since June 2018

    Viewership up +23% compared to last year’s 22nd race from Daytona (8/23/24 on USA)

    Audience up +16% compared to last Xfinity Series Iowa race (6/15/24 on USA)”

    And still bringing in big bucks.

    “ NASCAR is banking on it. As for alienating longtime fans, that probability was surely baked into the decision do business with Amazon. Also, Prime is reportedly paying a little more than a billion bucks for its piece of seven-year deal worth $7.7 billion overall.”
    most exciting thing that happened in Nascar in awhile that happened yesterday...


     
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      The Boz: Had to admit, I laughed. The kid is/was an up and comer.

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    Hurricane Expert tgull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tgull View Post
    This fad will fade as quick as it started. Just like women's boxing, soccer, etc.. Yeah super hot players that will get attention will always exist, but the game is still unwatchable. Reminds me of the NASCAR craze 25 years ago, networks fighting for TV contracts, now its one of the least watched sports programming out there. The WNBA will be back to giving tickets away in a couple years.
    Not looking for an argument but NASCAR still beats all other sports on non football or NCAA tournament weekends. Definitely not what it was in the early 00’s but it’s still getting big TV money utilizing streaming like Amazon. Here are last weeks numbers….

    “ The NASCAR Cup Series race on Sunday at Iowa Speedway drew 2.174 million viewers on USA Network according to Adam Stern of Sports Business Journal.

    It was still the most viewed sports event of the day.

    On the other hand, the Xfinity Series race on Saturday drew 1.008 overall viewers on the CW Network. Every Xfinity Series race that ran on time this year has drawn over a million viewers on the over-the-air channel. Some superlatives offered by the channel have been listed below:

    Most-watched Xfinity Series race from Iowa since June 2018

    Viewership up +23% compared to last year’s 22nd race from Daytona (8/23/24 on USA)

    Audience up +16% compared to last Xfinity Series Iowa race (6/15/24 on USA)”

    And still bringing in big bucks.

    “ NASCAR is banking on it. As for alienating longtime fans, that probability was surely baked into the decision do business with Amazon. Also, Prime is reportedly paying a little more than a billion bucks for its piece of seven-year deal worth $7.7 billion overall.”
    Yeah, but their ratings are still a rounding error when compared to football. Here are regular season college football games in 2024:



    Georgia @ Texas (October 19, Night, ABC) - 13.19 million viewers

    Michigan @ Ohio State (November 30, Noon, FOX) - 12.3

    Georgia @ Alabama (September 28, Night, ABC) - 11.99

    Alabama @ Tennessee (October 19, Afternoon, ABC) - 10.23

    Tennessee @ Georgia (November 16, Night, ABC) - 9.96

    Ohio State @ Penn State (November 2, Noon, FOX) - 9.77

    Ohio State @ Oregon (October 12, Night, NBC) - 9.60

    Texas @ Texas A&M (November 30, Night, ABC) - 9.45

    Indiana @ Ohio State (November 23, Noon, FOX) - 9.32

    Texas @ Michigan (September 7, Noon, FOX) - 9.19

    Geez, even UM-Louisville and BC-FSU were still getting over 4M viewers in the middle of the afternoon. Playoff games these were obviously much higher, I think the NC game got 22M not including streaming. A random college game on ESPN Saturday night will triple a MLB playoff game.

    Obviously, the NFL is leap years ahead of anyone, but NASCAR outside their hard core older now fan base has stagnated a lot. I see some races casually on TV for like five minutes with lots of empty seats, never used to be that way. My point was these things change on a dime for these secondary sports. NASCAR was red hot in the early 2000s, I even watched it for a couple years, now I can't stand it. But admittedly I will occasionally tune in for Daytona.

    I just think the WNBA will be like Soccer, for years I have been hearing its going to take over the US, never does. Get it, its tremendously popular in Europe, but its never taken hold in the US outside a few games Messi plays in.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    WNBA will never be super popular, and won't sniff anywhere near the popularity the NBA enjoys.

    However, it is currently making a rapid ascent, and should be able to get away from its previous "completely irrelevant" status. However, to maintain this, they will have to continue marketing the hot/feminine players, or otherwise people will lose interest again.

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    I finally watched a highlight of Clarkl. I just can't get out of my head how much smaller a woman's basketball is than mens.

    Yea it's ok for women to use a smaller ball but the rim diametyer should be smaller as well. They just throw up any ol shot and it goes in.

    Then again if the rim diameter was smaller it might be like watching soccer, scoreless ties and such. jk but it wouldn't be good for the game.

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    Can't remember names but few years ago there were 2 twins that were a big hit

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    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO View Post
    Can't remember names but few years ago there were 2 twins that were a big hit
    Wasn't even WNBA, was college basketball.

    But Frank with the inadvertent ultimate representation of the casual fan.

     
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      FRANKRIZZO: thks for correcting me forgot to mention were college players did any of them make the wnba?

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