Is it unethical to stake a decent player who is honest, but has been racist/unstable in the past?

[Dan Druff]

There's an interesting controversy on Twitter I'd like to discuss.

Tony Bigcharles is a longtime low-midstakes poker player and casino advantage player. He's a strange guy, and acknowledges that he has Asperger's. He doesn't seem to have a permanent home, but instead drifts around the US, staying in casinos, and supporting himself through poker and blackjack. He frequently updates his bankroll on his Twitter, which I don't beleive has ever eclipsed $50,000, but seems to always hang in the low 5 figures.

On the plus side, Tony is known to be honest, and has never scammed or ripped off anyone, to my knowledge. He would be safe to stake from that standpoint, as he would be highly unlikely to run off with the money or violate the terms of the stake. He would also be likely to honestly report his wins, even if playing cash.

However, Tony has been known to go on racist and sexist tirades, both on his blog and his Twitter. It's important to understand that most of his blog and Twitter are about his poker and gambling, with only the occasional rant. However, he has written some fairly offensive things on social media, especially by 2022 standards.

Additionally, Tony occasionally has a freakout and gets himself in trouble. In late 2017, he had a meltdown while losing at blackjack at Golden Gate Casino in Las Vegas, and a few months later (see same thread), he was also arrested for "terrorist threats" by saying that he wished he could "arrange the death" of people he sees who are happier than him.

To my knowledge, Tony has never actually been violent, and these seem to be things said/written in anger more than anything else. As Tony is well over 50, it is likely he would have a record for violent acts by now if he actually had a propensity for violence. He just has no filter, possibly due to his Asperger's.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not defending Tony's behavior. I don't agree with what he writes on social media regarding women and minorities. Clearly he was totally out of line in these 2017-2018 meltdowns, and he can't just hide behind Asperger's as an excuse. I understand why some people have a big problem with him. However, as someone who is used to dealing with very dysfunctional/weird/unstable people online, Tony's antics don't shock me. When it's all said and done, Tony hasn't really hurt anyone -- he just acts inappropriately and offensively at times. I'll take someone like Tony all day in poker over scammers and cheaters.

Most people in poker understand that, for all his strange behavior, Tony is harmless. Many have known him for 20+ years, and it's basically understood that he's just a weird and quirky dude who isn't going to hurt anyone.

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/ToddBrunson/status/1489719573175681026


Anyway, now onto the present controversy. Bart Hanson posted this on his Twitter:

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/BartHanson/status/1494061276749864968


Within a day, the tweet hit 500 likes. Now it's up to 614.

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/BartHanson/status/1494345664758796289



Keep in mind that Tony was NOT begging for stakes. This was suggested to Bart by a third party, and Bart ran with it. Tony, in fact, isn't even sure he wants to do it.

However, some on poker Twitter are unhappy with this, given Tony's behavior over the past few years. I'll continue next post.

[Dan Druff]

Jennifer Newell is a longtime poker journalist. She's always done a great job in her reporting, and I usually agree with her poker-related pieces. She's an intelligent woman, and I have respect for her. In fact, not too long ago someone tweeted that they were looking to hire a good freelance poker journalist, and I responded recommending Jennifer.

However, she and I are polar opposite politically, and have had some Twitter arguments in the past regardng such matters. She is very passionate about her political views (moreso than I am, actually), and I'm sure she doesn't care for the fact that I am right wing. However, we have communicated respectfully in the 15+ years I've known her.

She also knows Bart, but I'm not sure how well. As you guys know, Bart is not the same as me politically, and while he's not left wing, I would say he's no longer right wing, either. He's one of those guys who seems to have been pushed somewhat left due to hatred of Trump.

Jennifer and a few others are upset that Bart is willing to stake Tony, due to his social media history and erratic behavior. (Note that Bart's tweet below seems addressed to me, but in reality he's just tagging me to take a look. The stake is for Tony, not me.)

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/WriterJen/status/1495106831374594050


Bart was half-joking here. Tony has a paranoia about "the left" being the source of a lot of his problems, so Bart was imitating Tony when he wrote this tweet. However, it is true that the people objecting to the stake are on the left, such as Jen Newell.

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/BartHanson/status/1495181273815420928


I'll conclude next post.

[Dan Druff]

I feel it is fine to stake someone like Tony. When staking someone, you don't need to personally like them, or agree with their politics. Staking is a business arrangement. If the person is honest and good enough to win, that should be enough.

Now, it would be understandable to object to staking someone who had harmed the poker community. For example, I would object to an effort to stake Russ Hamilton, even if Russ was +EV in the game, and even if safeguards were in place to prevent Russ from screwing the stakers. That's because Russ substantially harmed the poker community, and nobody in poker should be doing anything to enable him to continue to play.

However, from what I have seen, Tony has never harmed anyone in poker. Has he offended people? Sure. Is he a weirdo? Sure. Does he have some outlandish and antiquated views on the world? Sure.

However, I don't think that should stop someone from staking him, if they choose. When it comes down to it, I don't believe Tony has ever ripped anyone off, nor has he ever committed acts of violence. I don't think his past erratic/offensive behavior is enough to justify people staying away from staking him. Consider the fact that TONS of scammers/cheaters are presently staked in some way in poker, and their stakers are not under any kind of social media pressure for it. As far as I'm concerned, those are the people who should be denied stakes, and basically run out of our community if they can't afford to keep playing.

As far as Tony? If Bart wants to stake him for entertainment purposes, no big deal. The fact that 500+ people liked Bart's tweet in one day should be indicative that many agree.

[limitles]

You guys sound like best cousins. Play away.

[Sloppy Joe]

Why doesn't he post here?

Racist, old, misogynistic, unstable, Asperger's, conspiratard. No better composite of a user on Druff's site right there.

No qualms about staking someone as described above but threats of violence would give me pause. A cash injection paired with a bad day and Tucker Carlson could have him go Stephen Paddock.

[Cerveza Fria]

If he has no record of violence or scamming people, then I would have no problem with staking him. Words are just words.

[gut]

Someone should tell this Jennifer chick to STFU tbh.

[thiefcatcher]

I definitely think professional poker players should allow professional activist outsiders to dictate what they do. That has worked well for everyone else.

[herbertstemple]

Not unethical but foolish. unstable=money down the drain

[mickeycrimm]

Genealogy has been my hobby for years. Surnames are easy for me to look up. Bigcharles is a Cree Indian surname specific to Alberta and Northwest Territories, Canada. Tony's father was full blood Cree Indian. His mother is of European descent.

If Tony was really racist wouldn't he hate his mother for fucking an Indian? LMAO! Just a joke, folks. Please, no hate mail. Tony has a good relationship with his mother.

The violent threats Tony made online was after taking a big loss at his nemesis game, blackjack. One of his followers that Tony knew well got the cops involved. I thought it was uncalled for. Tony had backtracked on the threats after calming down.

Is Tony capable of violence? I don't think so. I think he is afraid of his own shadow. His hotel bill is twice what it should be because of his fear of being mugged. A hotel has to have exceptional security and be in an area that he considers safe.

His hotel bill runs 3 to 4K a month. And he's a 1/2 NLH player! All his earn goes to rent. He could easily cut the rent bill in half if he weren't afraid.

My opinion is he don't make money on the blackjack. He essentially plays breakeven video blackjack and runs hot and cold with it. I gave up trying to get him to quit the blackjack. A few years back I gave him a clinic on advantage slots and still clue him in to new games so he makes a little money in that area.

I've been following Tony for about 8 years I guess. The one thing he has proven is that he is a winning 1/2 NLH player. So I would love to see his game.

I'm not a fan of Bart Hanson. Posting shit like "hating Ted Cruz is the decent thing to do" is bullshit lefty woke ass cancel culture authoritarian fascism.

But I would like to see Hanson stake Tony Bigcharles. I think it would be highly interesting. Thanks, Hanson if you do it.

[sevencard2003]

i didnt know this thread existed at first because no one linked me to it. i will say theres a lot of untruths in the posts above. for one thing i never once got in any trouble at the Golden Gate, i made up the story because i thought it would be "funny" and i wanted to see who would be dumb enough to believe it. (thats the type of things people with autism do that dont understand social settings). ive told everyone multiple times it never happened and have written an awful lot of times about playing BJ in there since then. so i was never banned there. also Jennifer said that it happened in the Venetian, when her best friend Poker Grump called the Hoover dam lodge where i was arrested. i shouldve sued the police for false arrest, but i dont know how to find the right attorney willing to take the case. the city prosecutor certainly wanted nothing to do with the case, they let me go because they refused to file charges. the only one who filed the charge was the officer who arrested me, and he told me at the time he was only doing it because he was mad about what had happened in vegas a few weeks earlier and that he thought i was some type of jerk since i didnt seem ill enough to be hospitalized. the detectives downtown he said who wanted to talk to me and wouldnt be in the office til tomorrow is why he arrested me, and them detectives said that my comments were a matter of free speech but just werent smart to say and they would "see what they would do to get me on my way"

i think it was due to pressure from far left wing activists like Jen that Grump called that hoover dam lodge and talked them into calling the police. Jen had me blocked on twitter for over 10 yrs, long before this incident because of her beliefs. its her thats the terrorist with much blood on her hands. people like her are why abortion exists to kill disabled people like me before theyre born and why people like Biden and Truduea got into office.

all i ever said was that i wish i had the power to kill, not that i wanted to, but that im tired of being feeling weak and unable to stand up for myself and i hated others who only cared about their own happiness at the expense of others and didnt care who they hurt in the process that should be killed. i cant see how this can be strechted to think its an actual literal and imminent threat.

by saying this, i felt like i was following the commandments of Jesus in standing up for those who are helpful and powerless. because this is why the bible teaches. i am unable to understand how anyone can see it as a threat or take it the way they did. people with autism just dont understand how others see their comments.

im glad to discover that todd witteles is more understanding of my disability than id known previously. i only wish he had told me of this thread sooner.

[limitles]

i didnt know this thread existed at first because no one linked me to it. i will say theres a lot of untruths in the posts above. for one thing i never once got in any trouble at the Golden Gate, i made up the story because i thought it would be "funny" and i wanted to see who would be dumb enough to believe it. (thats the type of things people with autism do that dont understand social settings). ive told everyone multiple times it never happened and have written an awful lot of times about playing BJ in there since then. so i was never banned there. also Jennifer said that it happened in the Venetian, when her best friend Poker Grump called the Hoover dam lodge where i was arrested. i shouldve sued the police for false arrest, but i dont know how to find the right attorney willing to take the case. the city prosecutor certainly wanted nothing to do with the case, they let me go because they refused to file charges. the only one who filed the charge was the officer who arrested me, and he told me at the time he was only doing it because he was mad about what had happened in vegas a few weeks earlier and that he thought i was some type of jerk since i didnt seem ill enough to be hospitalized. the detectives downtown he said who wanted to talk to me and wouldnt be in the office til tomorrow is why he arrested me, and them detectives said that my comments were a matter of free speech but just werent smart to say and they would "see what they would do to get me on my way"

i think it was due to pressure from far left wing activists like Jen that Grump called that hoover dam lodge and talked them into calling the police. Jen had me blocked on twitter for over 10 yrs, long before this incident because of her beliefs. its her thats the terrorist with much blood on her hands. people like her are why abortion exists to kill disabled people like me before theyre born and why people like Biden and Truduea got into office.

all i ever said was that i wish i had the power to kill, not that i wanted to, but that im tired of being feeling weak and unable to stand up for myself and i hated others who only cared about their own happiness at the expense of others and didnt care who they hurt in the process that should be killed. i cant see how this can be strechted to think its an actual literal and imminent threat.

by saying this, i felt like i was following the commandments of Jesus in standing up for those who are helpful and powerless. because this is why the bible teaches. i am unable to understand how anyone can see it as a threat or take it the way they did. people with autism just dont understand how others see their comments.

im glad to discover that todd witteles is more understanding of my disability than id known previously. i only wish he had told me of this thread sooner.

You're Tony? I read several of your blog posts and haven't seen anything that screams racist or trouble maker. I don't envy your position of trying to make money via gambling. The games are heartless as are many players. Todd and Bart are all about self promotion so don't let this thread bother you.

I haven't seen where Todd is staking you but I would just say take whatever money comes your way and hope for a heater

[sevencard2003]

Bart was the one who offered to stake me, and it wasnt his idea. someone else suggested it and i was surprised he went along with it and also that he got the 500 plus tweets required. i have no idea where or when he planned to do it, im assuming in texas somewhere, most likely the lodge.

[limitles]

Bart was the one who offered to stake me, and it wasnt his idea. someone else suggested it and i was surprised he went along with it and also that he got the 500 plus tweets required. i have no idea where or when he planned to do it, im assuming in texas somewhere, most likely the lodge.

Another poster suggested you have Indigenous status. If so you should consider relocating to Canada where programs aimed at improving you're lot in life are numerous, especially in Saskatchewan.

[sevencard2003]

Grump doesnt like Trump, Jen Newell doesnt like Trump (almost no women did) but i feel the reason so many dont like Trump is because they dont have any empathy or compassion, and dont understand what its like to grow up less privledged than them because of a disease like autism. its so mentally disabiling i cant learn to drive, so it costs me about $1000 per month on Uber and Lyft. most liberals are extremely well off financially and most trump supporters are not doing well financially and are blue collar workers. Trump himself has done a lot to help those with less money than himself and said he felt more at home around firefighters than he did around bankers. hes paid for a lot of people in need of help and tried to keep it quiet and out of the news. so when u go through life without a woman because of a disability u cant control, u become bitter and say a lot of things others dont understand.

without poker id be a ward of the state, with no way to provide for myself without the help of the taxpayers. many people have tried to get me SSI but i dont believe in it and its too much work. plus it keeps u trapped in poverty for life. UBI would be far better, it wouldnt keep u poor or disqualify u from earning money on the side. even rich people would still get it.

the only reason not all people like Trump is they believe the lies the media tells them about Trump, and also because they cannot stand the way Trump put prolife people on the supreme court instead of pro abortion people. also a lot of people are globalists, and if u look into the world economic forum and whats going on in canada, globalists are quite evil. only trump stood up for the american people.

[sevencard2003]

Bart was the one who offered to stake me, and it wasnt his idea. someone else suggested it and i was surprised he went along with it and also that he got the 500 plus tweets required. i have no idea where or when he planned to do it, im assuming in texas somewhere, most likely the lodge.

Another poster suggested you have Indigenous status. If so you should consider relocating to Canada where programs aimed at improving you're lot in life are numerous, especially in Saskatchewan.

my father died when i was 1, and my grandmother on my dads side whose now dead never would tell my mother who his real father was. so there is no way to prove it. also canada would be a terrible place to be now, theres a dictator running it exactly like Hitler.

[limitles]

Another poster suggested you have Indigenous status. If so you should consider relocating to Canada where programs aimed at improving you're lot in life are numerous, especially in Saskatchewan.

my father died when i was 1, and my grandmother on my dads side whose now dead never would tell my mother who his real father was. so there is no way to prove it. also canada would be a terrible place to be now, theres a dictator running it exactly like Hitler.

Re-read my post. Numerous programs, paid for by the people of Canada, read taxes, are there to assist you from housing to education. Gambling is legal no matter the province. If that sounds like a dictatorship then you are getting your information from the wrong places.

[sevencard2003]

my father died when i was 1, and my grandmother on my dads side whose now dead never would tell my mother who his real father was. so there is no way to prove it. also canada would be a terrible place to be now, theres a dictator running it exactly like Hitler.

Re-read my post. Numerous programs, paid for by the people of Canada, read taxes, are there to assist you from housing to education. Gambling is legal no matter the province. If that sounds like a dictatorship then you are getting your information from the wrong places.

didnt u see all the videos posted on twitter by protestors of the cops in ottawa sending in horses to knock a disabled elderly clan mother of the mohawk tribe out of her scooter and send her to the hospital who was at the truckers protest? and about how they are seizing the bank accounts of the millions of people who donated to the protest?

[limitles]

Re-read my post. Numerous programs, paid for by the people of Canada, read taxes, are there to assist you from housing to education. Gambling is legal no matter the province. If that sounds like a dictatorship then you are getting your information from the wrong places.

didnt u see all the videos posted on twitter by protestors of the cops in ottawa sending in horses to knock a disabled elderly clan mother of the mohawk tribe out of her scooter and send her to the hospital who was at the truckers protest? and about how they are seizing the bank accounts of the millions of people who donated to the protest?

Dude stay off twitter. It's the new home of propaganda. I'm not going to argue with you but I'm sure you've heard the term "there's a sucker born ever minute"? I believe that applies to Americans more than any other nation.

Goog luck going forward

[Sheesfaced]

This thread is peak PFA 2022