Vegas is Struggling in 2025

[desertrunner]

Dude, I’ll post whatever the fuck I want. And yes they do prove a point, flights haven’t been cancelled as you claimed and they aren’t empty. And United which earned 1.2 BILLION in Q2 isn’t flying 7 flights a day to Vegas if they are empty. You said they are either empty or being cancelled from Jersey, this post shows they aren’t being cancelled. There is nothing debatable here, but feel free to keep trying, it’s what this forum is for.

I havent made any clams about any flights being cancelled. I said it is believable that planes are empty or low passenger counts from NJ to Las Vegas. I will explain in my future post here.

My next post will show FUTURE flights available seats since you claimed past results prove nothing although you have been claiming Vegas is dead for a while now.

I havent claimed "Vegas is dead" ever here. I have being saying for years now that I am against the Resort Fees and Vegas is going to crash, as it is now. I dont make anything up, just deal with facts. I have also gone as far to break down why it is failing.

As for the original topic, this is as relevant as it gets. YES, prices are too high and it’s hurting the low end customers. But NO, the town isn’t dead, “no one is coming” is bullshit and it’s not empty.

Again, I have never claimed "Vegas is dead" here, I have been critical of all of the clear and obvious related factors and and listed them in my past posts- California indian casinos, CEO greed, Resort Fees and inflated prices.

As for the future, here is this Friday, September 5th from Jersey to Vegas. Certainly NOT past results that you claimed prove nothing. Note these are the first FIVE, yes 5 flights of the day with more later in the day. Would you say they are “empty or being cancelled”? Why is United flying this many planes is “No one is going to Vegas anymore)?

Again, youre posting something that has nothing to do with or dictates what happened in the days prior.

All are at a minimum 3/4 full and I’m only showing the back of main cabin, on most first class is full or near full.

Irrelvant and doesnt mean anything about what happened days prior.

And yes, these do prove a point from Jersey which is where the fake clickbait photo claimed to be from. What city should we do this exercise from next?

We do not know or confirmed that photo is clickbait, thats just someone's assumption that cant be proved. Someone simply disagreed with the picture and labled it clickbait in an effort to discredit. Again, the "because I say so" defense golds no water. The trans people use the "because I say so" defense to justify that they are a new man or woman after transitioning. Again, it just doesnt work.

[BCR]

This is fun to watch. I think it was gobuccos that said desert isn’t necessarily dumb despite the obvious fact he’s very clearly on the spectrum. Said he was also on the spectrum and made some insightful comments.

My thought was that gobuccos self-awareness of his strengths and weaknesses was a clear sign of higher intellect and why he and desertrunner are very different creatures. People on the spectrum on average are a little lower in general.

For every guy who has learned to channel their condition into a positive and mitigate the negative aspects, there are two deserts who are simply unaware of how wrong and annoying they are and who will continue to double down on a wrong statement and then revert to I was just leaving it there without comment or trying to wind up the liberals rather than just admit he fell for something clearly dumb. That would be self-awareness.

Being socially inept on top of low intellect is a brutal combination. I’d feel bad for him if he wasn’t such an incredible ass while being annoying.

This is why it’s personally amusing that he’s gotten to the point he’s even driving you two crazy in exasperation trying to talk sense to him. Join the fucking club.

Vegas is down. It’s too expensive for Joe six pack. That is a million miles from it’s a ghost town and clearly they aren’t flying multiple empty planes to Vegas every day. If you don’t see a pic like that and immediately see the agenda you’re an idiot. There is no other explanation. Vegas is down for sure. Show a half to 3/4 full flight and it makes the same point without engaging in silliness.


I’m sure in his mind he will dismantle Druffs argument and say the Boz literally posting the capacity for every flight out of Jersey is irrelevant despite it being the most relevant thing one can look at.

All you can do is bang your head off a wall arguing with him or understand he’s abnormal. He single-handedly lowered the discourse here and made it a forum where all of us stooped to his level and were naturally antagonistic at times to anyone new because he arrived shortly before most other newish posters. He really damaged the site.

He more than any poster I can recall in decades took it this direction.

He will start calling you libtards soon because his thinking is so black and white he doesn’t grasp how annoying he is and thinks everything is political. Or you have some agenda beyond preferring to discuss reality.

Or pretend there are two sides to objective reality and you two are now just ganging up on him with others to be cool.

He’s way off and seems to be getting worse. You could show him a written statement from the guy who posted the pic admitting he took it before it boarded and he’d somehow think it proves his point. He’s that ill.


Have a good holiday all

[The Boz]

DR Post 341 today

“ I havent made any clams about any flights being cancelled. I said it is believable that planes are empty or low passenger counts from NJ to Las Vegas.”

Also DR Post 324 yesterday

“Lastly, I just didnt care enough about this topic or pic to go this deep. Again, I do believe most flights from NJ to Vegas are going to be empty or cancelled, but NO one here knows for sure, we are all just assuming.”

Just saying

[desertrunner]

DR Post 341 today

“ I havent made any clams about any flights being cancelled. I said it is believable that planes are empty or low passenger counts from NJ to Las Vegas.”

Also DR Post 324 yesterday

“Lastly, I just didnt care enough about this topic or pic to go this deep. Again, I do believe most flights from NJ to Vegas are going to be empty or cancelled, but NO one here knows for sure, we are all just assuming.”

Just saying

Good try, but in both lines I said "I believe" and "we are all just assuming". Again, I never made any absolute concrete claims of "they are cancelling flights". I gave my own opinion only and never asserted anything as fact.

[Dan Druff]

The thing is that everyone makes mistakes.

Last year I shared an “article” from a site as proof of what I was saying, but stupidly only skimmed it. It turned out it was a parody site. I think BCR pointed it out.

Boneheaded mistake, and it’s rare I will ever share something I haven’t actually read in full. But I did it there, and I looked like a moron.

However, I did own it. I stuck to my original point, admitted the article obviously wasn’t helping my case, and conceded that sharing it was stupid.

That’s what I suggest here.

Clearly when you posted that plane pic, you thought it helped solidify your point about Vegas being dead. It didn’t. You accidentally shared fake clickbait.

The good news is that a lot of people fell for it on X, including normally savvy people like Vital Vegas. We all occasionally fuck up like this and accidentally share phony engagement bait to make a serious point. Best thing is to admit it, but explain that you still hold the same beliefs, but just shared a poor example.

[Dan Druff]

Speaking of Newark airport...

I took a shower there.

I know that doesn't sound like big news, but I was 53 years old and had never showered in an airport in my life. I intentionally had a long layover in Newark, on the way to Stockholm, so we could spend the day in NYC. I decided after the red eye flight where I slept most of the way, followed by the usual rush of packing and loading/unloading the car, that I felt like I needed one. I had access to the United Polaris lounge, and I saw there were showers there. I took one, more for the novelty than anything else, but it felt nice.

We then had a nice day in NYC. I rented a Mercedes using points, we visited Liberty Park, went up the Empire State Building, ate NY pizza, and went back. Was Ben's first time there since he was 6 years old.

Good day, though the airport itself kinda sucks, especially with this awful tram you have to use to get the rental car, followed by a ton of walking.

[Dan Druff]

Anyway the reason I was so persistent about the picture is because I absolutely hate fake news engagement bait. I despise it. In fact, I take great pleasure in ruining it when I can. Feels so nice when I expose something fake and explain why, then see it get a lot of likes. That means it gets pushed up to the top comment, thereby making it likely a lot of people see it and realize it was bullshit.

The reason I hate it so much is because people are selfishly posting it in order to make money from the views/engagement, while not giving a shit that they're misleading people and creating further division.

When this stuff gets shared, that's exactly what these assholes want. That's why I don't like this stuff on PFA, unless it's to make fun of it.

I try to even say something about the harmless hoaxes. Remember the shit on Facebook in the 2010s, where the dimmer people on your friends list would post. "I hereby do NOT give Facebook permission to use any of my pictures or content", followed by some phony legal statute explaining why Facebook now couldn't do so? Their posts were accompanies by a copy-pasted explanation that you must do this in order to stop Mark Zuckerberg from taking ownership of all of your pics, and using them at will. It was all nonsense, and the people doing it looked like fools.

I would usually just message these people privately and say, "That's a hoax. Take the post down. That legal notice is meaningless, and it's just something that got spread around Facebook to see how many people would fall for it." I then explained that anything you're instructed to post on your Facebook wall in order to prevent some violation or catastrophe is always fake. I sometimes hesitated to message these people, because I didn't want to make them feel dumb. In many cases, they were older and not at all social media savvy. However, I felt that my intervention was a net positive for them, even if they had a moment of private embarrassment in front of me.

To be fair, I never saw desertrunner falling for any of this shit on Facebook. I'm just saying that it's never good to spread misleading posts, and when you realize you've accidentally done it, just laugh about not noticing, and move on. That's what I've done in the rare cases where I fuck up and share something incorrect/fake.

[desertrunner]

Clearly when you posted that plane pic, you thought it helped solidify your point about Vegas being dead. It didn’t. You accidentally shared fake clickbait.

Druff, stop already, this is your 5th attempt to discredit me. Youre putting words in my mouth again hoping I will just yield and accept your baselsss push. Again, I have never said on here "Vegas is dead", that is something you just made up and Boz said earlier. . So far, no one here has proven that is "fake click bait", thats just your card to quickly support your opinion. If you can PROVE that is clickbait and I mean will real metric evidence, I will PayPal you $100. Right now, its just an assumption and opinion being desperately used by you to prove a point and argument. I have some valid reasons on that picture and I will be addressing them in a bit here. Just like on the unions sub-topic here, youre only presentation was "because I say so" and I knocked out every item you presented. Your challenge now is to PROVE it was clickbait with real evidence or not bring up the topic here.

The good news is that a lot of people fell for it on X, including normally savvy people like Vital Vegas. We all occasionally fuck up like this and accidentally share phony engagement bait to make a serious point. Best thing is to admit it, but explain that you still hold the same beliefs, but just shared a poor example.

Again, I have heard this for the 5th time now and its the same old "Vital Vegas" and "Vegas Locally: fell for it an d so did you. There was NO fuck up here, its just you and an opinion that you still cant seem to prove. When you can PROVE to me that it was fake and click bait, I would love to see it and pay. Druff- I know you believe this in your heart, but youre too transparent here. Youve taken a hard stance on the "Las Vegas is dead" topic and just want to use a quick card to kill the opposition. Yuve gone as far as falsely quoting me here and lying that I said something I have never said- "Las Vegas is dead".

Druff- You have been doing this for years and someone needs to tell you. Just because you play the "because I say so" card every time, that doesnt always mean your right and the others have to yield and agree with you.

I have been planning on fully responding to thissuper lame BS topic again and just like the union subject, I will knock the legs out of this one too. Just hold on, I will be back, but have events going on here at my house that wont allow me to dismantle these BS arguments.

Go ahead and get your proof and show me wrong OR dont bring up the topic anymore, serious. I dont want to hear "because I say so again", that is not presentation at all, that is baby talk on the playground.

I WILL BE BACK LATER ON TO POST AND RESPOND TO ALL OF THIS, JUST GIVE ME SOME TIME ON THIS HOLIDAY.

[Dan Druff]

You can't prove a negative in many cases, especially on the internet.

In absence of being able to do that, the best way to go about things is to require positive proof of any kind of extraordinary claim, rather than thinking it's real if there's lack of proof against it.

For example, let's say an account showed up on PFA purporting to be a girl in her late 20s, and "she" posted a pic of herself showing that she's incredibly hot. Let's say she then announced that she joined PFA because she thinks Dan Druff is the hottest man in poker, and she hopes I'll give her a chance to finally fulfill her fantasy to fuck me.

I'm sure everyone here -- you included -- would immediately believe that it's some sort of fake account. It would most likely be a dupe account of some troll here, or maybe even be operated by me. But it would be highly unlikely to be a real account, and everyone would recognize that immediately.

But COULD it be a real account? Sure. There's a tiny chance it could actually be a super hot chick in her 20s who wants to jump my bones so badly that she had to register on PFA and announce it. But it would be extremely unlikely.

Could anyone prove it wasn't really her? If they couldn't find the actual origin of the picture she posted (or prove it came from AI), then no, there would be no way to disprove the reality of the account. However, anyone saying, "Well, you can't prove she's fake, so we have to believe it" would sound silly.

Same goes for internet clickbait.

As Boz showed, it was EXTREMELY unlikely that a flight from NJ to Vegas on Labor Day weekend was actually almost 100% empty. That, combined with the fact that the cockpit doors and overhead bins were open, would lead one to believe it was taken during early boarding.

The burden of proof is on the poster (the Twitter poster, not you). They would need to show:

1) A picture of the plane with the doors closed
2) Proof that flight was actually going to Vegas
3) Proof that picture was actually taken on Labor Day weekend

If even one of the 3 factors above are absent, you can completely discard it, and assume it is clickbait. This picture had NONE of these 3 elements of proof.

I don't know how many more ways I can say this.

[desertrunner]

You can't prove a negative in many cases, especially on the internet.

In my option, if you cant prove it, you should then drop it and not keep coming back for a 5th time with the "because I said so" tactic. If you cant prove something, then I will let it go.

I said I will be back here later with a full response that will shut this sub-topic down just like I did with the union item. Right now, its lunch time with my family.

Druff- I would stop already as you've resorted to falsely quoting me as I never claimed here "Vegas is dead".

Give me some time and I will be back.

[Dive_Bar_Dave]

The latest reports:

People want better perks and incentives (and lower costs):



Tourism down by double digits:

42% fewer Canadians this year.


Men on the street DanVsWorld and LasVegasFill say Vegas restaurants are dying:

[Dan Druff]

The disappearance of the reasonably priced cafe is a big annoyance to tourists, especially because those still existed all the way through the early 2010s, before getting replaced by ripoff food courts and expensive middle-high-end cafes.

Everyone got used to being able to have a cheap breakfast or lunch in the hotel coffee shop, served to you by a surly waitress who looks like she'd also be suited to work in a truck stop. That's gone now. Every meal on strip is expensive, and by the time people get to dinner time, they won't want to spend even more. That's why the restaurants are struggling. Let people eat cheaply for breakfast and lunch, and they'll spend on dinner.

The corporations have just decided that every single department selling anything is going to be profitable as if it's standing on its own, and that's just a huge mistake. Vegas is a city which counts on volume. It's not like a mountain tourist trap which only has a low number of rooms and restaurants to fill. If you want a mass number of people coming in, you need to make it appealing to the masses.

[Dive_Bar_Dave]

The controversial Steven Campbell (quoting stats from lvcva.com):

[The Boz]

Here are Anthony Curtis’s Top 7 food deals for the month. Granted some like Emerald Island aren’t practical for most visitors but it does show deals are out there if you look. Ellis is still easily the best deal for cheap food a semi short walk from the strip. The steak is a sirloin, basically like the one you get at Outback, not bad at all.

[Dive_Bar_Dave]

More reports:

International tourism drop may persist beyond summer:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/busine...s-say-3432717/


Las Vegas icon points finger at what's causing Sin City's spiraling decline: "Evolve or die"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-casinos.html

[jpfromla]

Clearly, things slowed down this summer. Pure anecdotal, but I spoke with a server at a Caesars Palace Lounge. Her income was down 50% from last summer.

[Dive_Bar_Dave]

More reports:

LVCVA leader goes to Canada to try to entice disgruntled Canadians:
https://thenevadaindependent.com/art...tled-canadians


With Tourism Decline, New Vegas Deals:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryol...ll-inclusives/

[desertrunner]

Resorts World Las Vegas reported roughly $180 million in revenue for the second quarter of 2025, an 8% improvement over the first three months of the year, but still about 18% lower than the same period last year.
READ MORE: https://www.reviewjournal.com/busine...0cv8UYZpEFjOew

[lol wow]

unlv rebels are 2 and 0 we can turn this around

[TheXFactor]

Circus Circus still a shithole.