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Thread: Oregon Lottery Steals: Unbelievable state-sponsored video poker scam

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    Oregon Lottery Steals: Unbelievable state-sponsored video poker scam

    Here at PokerFraudAlert, we have covered many kinds of poker and gambling scandals.

    Sometimes it's perpetrated by a shady company, like UB or Lock.

    Sometimes it's perpetrated by an individual player, such as Erick Lindgren.

    Sometimes it's an organized scam, such as PokerByProxy.

    And sometimes a brick and mortar casino even cheats people.

    But you know who is least likely to scam someone in gambling? The government. While the government might be bumbling, inefficient, corrupt, or overly bureaucratic, you still can at least count on them to offer you a fair game on machines they own, right?

    Right?

    Apparently not.

    Read on for an amazing story of the state of Oregon cheating its own players at video poker... and continuing to do so even when caught red-handed.



    Lose Your Money 20 Times as Fast as in Vegas

    In 1984, Oregon voters were convinced to approve a lottery, to begin in 1985. At the time, a big selling point was that casino-style gambling would be prohibited.

    Just 7 years later, the law was revised, and the first legalized, state-run video poker games appeared in 1992. 23 years later, they are still running.

    For those of you that aren't familiar with the expected odds of video poker, allow me to educate you regarding the difference between a "good" and "bad" video poker machine.

    A good machine, sometimes referred to as "full pay", will return 99% or more of money wagered back to the player, assuming the player is utilizing perfect strategy. Perfect strategy isn't as difficult as you might think. There are plenty of websites giving you perfect or near-perfect guides on how to play each variant of video poker.

    The "bad" machines are ones which return less than 97% of money wagered back to the player utilizing perfect strategy. A machine returning 94-96% is considered especially bad.

    Any machine returning in the 97-98% range is considered mediocre.

    The differences in returns are dictated by the pay tables. For example, the simplest form of video poker (and one of the oldest) is "Jacks or Better". A "full pay" version of the game will give 1 credit for jacks or better, 2 for 2 pair, 3 for 3-of-a-kind, 4 for a straight, 6 for flush, 9 for a full house, 25 for 4-of-a-kind, 50 for a straight flush, and 800 for a royal flush. That machine pays 99.54% on average to a perfect player. However, other "Jacks or Better" machines will reduce the pay tables for the flush and full house. Reducing them to 8 and 5, respectively, will result in a machine which only pays 97.30%. Reduce them to 6 and 5 (you'll see this on cruise ships and some small casinos), and return falls to 95%! Ouch!

    So what was the return on the Jacks or Better game on the video poker machines owned by the Oregon Lottery? 97%? 95%?

    No. Their return rate was 90%. You read that right. They were offering the worst Jacks or Better video poker in the history of video poker. In fact, every variant of video poker they offered had a return rate of 90%, with the exception of two of them, which were 92% and 94%, respectively. So the very best video poker offered by the Oregon Lottery had a 94% return rate, which was already among the worst of the worst. And their typical machines offered just a 90% return.

    How bad is a 90% return? At these 90% return Oregon machines, you will lose your money more than 20 times as fast as you would at a full-pay Jacks or Better machine.

    But that's not the scandal here. While it's true that the paytables were MUCH worse than industry standard, and while it's true that players were not warned of this, you can at least say the game was still fair, albeit running at very poor odds. The scandal is the fact that, despite operating machines with a hugely inflated house edge, the Oregon Lottery still rigged the games to cheat people.



    Let the Game Give You Advice... Just Not the Correct Advice

    Video Poker is not like a slot machine. Slot machines require no skill. You click "Spin", and whether you win or lose depends only upon the odds of the machine and dumb luck. Video poker, on the other hand, requires the player to make decisions. These decisions will greatly affect the player's odds to win. To put it simply, a 3-year-old could play slots and have the identical chance to win as I would at the same machine. However, if that same child tried to play video poker, he would be absolutely terrible at it, and would lose a fortune. So correct play at video poker really matters. All strategy in video poker comes from determining which cards to hold, and which to throw back.

    While perfect video poker strategy has already been determined and easily made available on the web, most casual gamblers don't know how (or care) to learn to play perectly. They have a general idea of what to do, but still make plenty of mistakes.

    The Oregon Lottery machines supposedly solve this problem for novice players by automatically holding the right cards after the hand is dealt. While the player can override the hold suggestions, the player is led to believe that the machine is advising them correctly.

    For example, at a Jacks or Better machine, if the player is dealt: Jh 8h 2h 3h Tc

    ... then the machine would (correctly) auto-hold the four hearts, and all you'd have to do is click the DEAL/DRAW button to try and make your flush.

    On the surface, this seems like a nice thing to do for players, as removes the need to learn perfect strategy, and greatly minimizes the potential for mistakes. Who needs to learn perfect strategy if the machine is already advising you of the right play to make (and in fact already holding the right cards for you)?

    However, there's one problem. The machines are not auto-holding the cards utilizing perfect strategy. In fact, the auto-hold makes several egregious strategy mistakes which will typically cost the player a lot of money!

    Would you like an example?

    Meet Justin Curzi.



    Justin was playing video poker in Oregon in 2014, and found a perplexing hand.

    He was dealt 2-4-5-6-7, with 4 different suits. The obvious play here would be to hold the 4-5-6-7 for the open ended straight draw. Curiously, the machine auto-held the 2-4-5-6, thus cutting his chances to hit the straight in half. He continued playing and found other mind-bogglingly incorrect auto-holds.

    Convinced he found a bug, he contacted the Oregon Lottery. Marlene Messiner, a spokeswoman for the Oregon Lottery, drafted an answer to send him:

    Auto-hold is based on optimizing the player’s opportunity to win the best (highest prize) rather than simply increasing the odds of winning any prize.
    But before she could send it, her superiors corrected her. Messiner was told that they knew Curzi was correct, and that indeed the auto-hold was steering players (without their knowledge) to play suboptimally. She trashed that e-mail before sending it to Curzi, and instead wrote this:

    In your case, the terminal did advise a strategy — granted not the only strategy — for you to have an opportunity to win with the cards you were dealt.
    Then they shut down the correspondence and refused to continue discussing the matter with Curzi.

    He eventually filed a class action lawsuit against the Oregon Lottery, which is still ongoing.

    He found the original draft of Messiner's e-mail through the discovery process.

    Really dirty.

    You can read more about Curzi's (justified) war against the Oregon Lottery here: http://www.wweek.com/portland/articl...s_machine.html


    Curzi's process of discovery also revealed that the machines were paying out only 87% on average instead of 90%, and the auto-hold was mostly to blame. It turned out that the auto-hold was responsible for as much as a 5% difference in return on some machines. That is, players utilizing the auto-hold (which, again, is on by default) had a return of 5% worse than players using their own strategy, which is horrendous.

    He also found that they were aware of this situation dating at least back to 2009, and chose to continue the same course.

    Still not sure if you believe me or that article? Check out the Oregon Lottery's own website: http://www.oregonlottery.org/gameinf...ercentage.aspx

    Auto-hold strategies vary by game, based on the particular features of a game and do not necessarily result in theoretical payouts. Players have the option of overriding the game’s selections anytime.
    What's even worse is the fact that the expected payouts (90% on most machines) are required to be clearly displayed on video poker machines, so players can understand their odds.

    Except it's far lower than 90% if you use its auto-hold advice.

    Oregon Lottery officials are now claiming that the above disclaimer ("Auto hold ... do not necessarily result in theoretical payouts") is good enough to legally qualify as informing the players about the auto hold's deficiencies.

    Yeah, right. Most players either won't read that fine print, or even if they do, won't understand it.

    The question remains... Why does the Oregon Lottery have the machines set to give players improper advice on how to play hands? Obviously it's to cheat people, and these greedy assholes amazingly aren't even satisfied with their already horrible-odds machines.

    They have no plans to abandon this auto-hold policy, and Curzi has calculated that the state has possibly scammed as much as $134 million since 1992 through this auto-hold trick.

    Unfortunately, Curzi's class action suit is still likely to fail, because he has to prove "intent to defraud" in order to win his case. If they are simply trotting out games with a bug in the auto-hold, and then informing players about the auto-hold in a fine-print, confusing disclaimer, they can probably dodge being liable for damages.

    Absolutely despicable.

    Fittingly, the Oregon Lottery logo involves crossed fingers -- a symbol kids use to secretly indicate they're lying when making promises to one another:



    Anyway, if you're in Oregon, stay away from video poker.

     
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    This is disgustingly scummy, but I wouldn't consider it cheating. The rules of the game are being honored and players are given a choice. Offering a bad choice and exploiting their ignorance is not much different from spreading any other game with an absurd house edge. The lottery itself is a shameless scam, and many people who play it are well aware of this, but none of them would say they're being cheated.

    Speaking of the lottery, that's the reason I'm not surprised at all this government gambling operation is such a blatant ripoff. How does this work in typical markets? Do Vegas casinos keep the edges lower for business reasons (like enticing people to play more and maintaining an illusion of equity) or do they just do it because regulators make them?

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SrslySirius View Post
    This is disgustingly scummy, but I wouldn't consider it cheating. The rules of the game are being honored and players are given a choice. Offering a bad choice and exploiting their ignorance is not much different from spreading any other game with an absurd house edge. The lottery itself is a shameless scam, and many people who play it are well aware of this, but none of them would say they're being cheated.
    I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here.

    Offering a game with an absurdly high house edge is indeed not cheating. I still think that they should make it clearer to players that their video poker has SUBSTANTIALLY worse odds than Vegas video poker, but at least they make the house edge clear to the player -- something even Vegas doesn't do. Of course, the player has to know the typical video poker house edge to realize that a 90% return is awful, but at least they're stating it.

    The cheating comes from knowingly providing bad strategy advice to players. It has been assumed (correctly) for many decades that machines are better at mathematical calculations than humans. When I need to know the answer to 178 x 38, I use a calculator, and I don't double-check its work. I have confidence that the calculator will give me the correct answer.

    The auto-hold feature on these machines makes people believe that the machine is giving them the correct advice. After all, who knows video poker better -- a relatively inexperienced player, or the video poker machine itself?

    Providing intentionally incorrect auto-hold advice in video poker is like the IRS intentionally providing you with a faulty calculator for doing your taxes.

    Or it's like them hiring a live "video poker expert" coach who stands by each machine and intentionally tells you to make the wrong plays.

    The worst thing is that they've known about this for at least 6 years (and very possibly all 23 years they've been in operation), and instead of fixing the auto-hold to give the correct advice, they simply sneak in a fine-print disclaimer to keep it technically legal.

    It's not even like the auto-hold is making incorrect moves in order to steer player toward the rarer big paying hands. Like if someone is dealt AhQhAc3d7c, the correct move is to hold the two aces. But if it advised holding the AhQh, at least you could say it was trying to get more royal flushes for the casual player, who is often more about hitting big hands than playing optimal strategy.

    But that's not what's happening here. As in the example with the straight I gave in the first post here, it just simply gives bad advice to where there is no potential upside for the player.



    Quote Originally Posted by SrslySirius
    Speaking of the lottery, that's the reason I'm not surprised at all this government gambling operation is such a blatant ripoff. How does this work in typical markets? Do Vegas casinos keep the edges lower for business reasons (like enticing people to play more and maintaining an illusion of equity) or do they just do it because regulators make them?
    There is no easy answer to this question.

    Decades ago, video poker and blackjack both had better returns. That is, most of the games were what would be considered "good" by today's standards.

    This is because it was assumed gamblers knew what paytables/rules to expect, and would refuse to play at a casino which adjusted things to give themselves a further edge.

    Over time, casinos began to realize this wasn't the case. Most gamblers are NOT experts in the games they play, but rather just understand the basic rules and use luck to explain whether they win or lose. So the blackjack games got worse (eventually leading to the rise of the awful 6:5 single deck blackjack), and the video poker paytables were degraded.

    The better paytable machines are typically found at higher limits, as the house is already making enough money to not have to squeeze out additional edge, and also have determined that higher limit players tend to, on average, be a bit more informed about what constitutes a good game.

    In some casinos, they will keep a few full-pay video poker machines around (often scattered about in random places) in order to satisfy the pay table purists, while degrading the rest of the casino's offerings.

    I can tell you that, if I ran a casino, I would do something like that. The vast majority of video poker players don't care much about pay tables, and are just looking for the "fun" variant they enjoy the most, or are looking for the excitement of big payouts. So, in the case of games like double-double bonus poker (a hugely popular variant these days), as long as you provide them exciting payouts for hitting quad aces with a low kicker, the player don't give much of a shit what you're paying them for a flush or full house.

    At the same time, casinos currently believe that absolutely clobbering a player every time also isn't good for business. If a player loses nearly every session, he won't have fun, and won't return. The best situation for a casino is when the player believes he has a legitimate shot to win, but in reality is going to bleed his bankroll away given enough play.

    There's also the matter of competition. If, say, Caesars drastically lowered their video poker paytables, there would be a mass exodus over to machines elsewhere. This wouldn't necessarily be because all people would notice the lower paytables, but because they would notice they are substantially "luckier" at other properties, and prefer those instead. And of course, there would be plenty of players who WOULD notice the drastic pay table reduction, and leave for that reason.

    Casinos are constantly searching for that "sweet spot" where players will be playing against a strong house edge, but at the same time believe they have a decent chance to walk away a winner. This is an ongoing process. Sadly, the trend is continuing toward worsening pay tables, and I have a feeling that today's "full pay" machines might be completely gone from all but the nosebleed limits within 10 years.

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    Platinum Jayjami's Avatar
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    This is awesome. Government sponsored gambling is merely a tax on the stupid and the poor, who don't pay their fair share anyway. Way to go Oregon! Better you get the money than some Portland meth dealer. I remember when California voted for the lottery. We were promised we would have the best schools in the nation. LOL.

    While I am at it, nothing pisses me off more than having to wait behind one of those fucking losers who take 5 minutes picking out their lottery numbers and buying scratchers at the convenience store. One of these days I am going to lose my patience and strangle one of them bastards right there in line, then claim temporary insanity. No reasonable jury would convict me.
    Last edited by Jayjami; 03-15-2015 at 02:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    The cheating comes from knowingly providing bad strategy advice to players. It has been assumed (correctly) for many decades that machines are better at mathematical calculations than humans. When I need to know the answer to 178 x 38, I use a calculator, and I don't double-check its work. I have confidence that the calculator will give me the correct answer.

    The auto-hold feature on these machines makes people believe that the machine is giving them the correct advice. After all, who knows video poker better -- a relatively inexperienced player, or the video poker machine itself?

    Providing intentionally incorrect auto-hold advice in video poker is like the IRS intentionally providing you with a faulty calculator for doing your taxes.
    I hadn't thought of it that way. That's deception for sure which qualifies as cheating imo. Good point, I've changed my view.

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    Sounds like VLT's in Canada. I refuse to play them for the shitty payouts but others are probably more up to speed on them.
    (•_•) ..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

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    BUMP

    In June, this lawsuit was dismissed due to a technicality.

    Plaintiff Justin Curzi plans to appeal:

    http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-3...ttery_but.html

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    This is way worse cheating than the current DFS controversy that the MSM is categorizing as fraud.

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    As someone that did ~17M coin-in on VP last year, I can't muster much outrage over this. It's short-sighted and ultimately -EV for the casino, but that's how management does everything these days. Torch your customers and juice those quarterly numbers.

    Caveat emptor. Play better and be glad you're not playing a Class II machine!

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAmProfessionalTalk View Post
    As someone that did ~17M coin-in on VP last year, I can't muster much outrage over this. It's short-sighted and ultimately -EV for the casino, but that's how management does everything these days. Torch your customers and juice those quarterly numbers.

    Caveat emptor. Play better and be glad you're not playing a Class II machine!
    It doesn't screw an "aware" player, but it totally gives the shaft to recreational gamblers.

    Short-sighted would be providing an awful paytable (which they also do).

    But this is outright cheating, by giving them strategy suggestions which are actually bad.

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