IS SEALS WITH CLUBS DONKDOWN??? (Update: Micon charged with a felony in Nevada)

[sonatine]

technically speaking, they wouldnt be re-arresting him for anything, as this new site is.. a new site. which he started while on the lam. over charges related to his now defunct site. which was otherwise identical.

[Dan Druff]

technically speaking, they wouldnt be re-arresting him for anything, as this new site is.. a new site. which he started while on the lam. over charges related to his now defunct site. which was otherwise identical.

No, I understand that, but it still would be considered a dirty trick when a high profile lawyer has a deal in place for his client to return to the US to face the prior charges, and then surprises everyone by popping him with another charge.

The reason it's considered dirty is because the prosecution has known about SWCpoker since February. So their lack of disclosure of their plans to charge him with this "new" crime would be considered sleazy.

Now, if Micon were to come back and start committing a completely new crime (say, he suddenly started a bitcoin sportsbetting site which took Nevada customers), then it would not be dirty to arrest him, as that would be a completely new matter.

Anyway, this is where I am now really confused.

Micon is still running SWCpoker -- or at least it still runs, and he presumably derives income from it. (Even in his one statement about the matter -- on bitcointalk -- he claimed he was "stepping away", but didn't say he sold it.)

Micon is coming back to face charges related to Seals -- basically the identical site to SWCpoker -- and presumably has some kind of deal in place.

So Nevada is going to make a deal with him regarding the charges of running Seals, but is just going to let him walk out and keep running SWCpoker behind the scenes?

In that case, what did Nevada accomplish? The same site they aimed to "shut down" is running under a slightly different name -- and started by the same guy they busted in the first place!

The only thing that would make sense would be a complete shutdown of SWCpoker being agreed to by Micon as part of the terms of probation. Someone on bitcointalk brought up this possibility, but people were dismissing it as unlikely, because nobody has been warned of an imminent shutdown. But perhaps Micon wants to extract every last penny of rake before this occurs, and then plans to abruptly shut down and pay everyone their balances.

[sonatine]

at the risk of coming off like im arguing (im really not), one has to consider that sending an extraction team to arrest micon in aruba and take him back here to face the music would probably run what.. 25-40k, while inviting him back to plea out regarding his previous criminal endeavor so you can slam dunk new charges for his new criminal endeavor once he arrives is free.

hell micon is even paying for the plane tickets.

[Dan Druff]

at the risk of coming off like im arguing (im really not), one has to consider that sending an extraction team to arrest micon in aruba and take him back here to face the music would probably run what.. 25-40k, while inviting him back to plea out regarding his previous criminal endeavor so you can slam dunk new charges for his new criminal endeavor once he arrives is free.

hell micon is even paying for the plane tickets.

I'm just saying this would be a huge black eye for Chesnoff's reputation if the AG did this to Micon, given that SWCpoker has been known about (and in fact very public) since February.

This would cause Chesnoff to say "fuck you" to the AG in the future when they want to make deals with his clients, and thus it won't happen.

The prosecution and high profile defense attorneys need each other, and both are harmed if that circle of trust is broken.

Also, pretty sure Chesnoff got them to promise NOT to arrest him for SWCpoker as a term for him returning. If he didn't, then he did some pretty shitty work on this one.

Again, this still leaves the piece of "What about SWCpoker?" completely missing at this moment. If its complete shutdown is a term of probation, the government can at least claim a win in that they closed a serious competitor to the NV poker sites. If SWCpoker remains open, with Micon simply claiming he "sold it" (whether true or false), then the NV government would have a huge load dripping right off of their faces.

I guess we'll see what happens here.

[lol wow]

Tight scenario there pedotine

[sonatine]

at the risk of coming off like im arguing (im really not), one has to consider that sending an extraction team to arrest micon in aruba and take him back here to face the music would probably run what.. 25-40k, while inviting him back to plea out regarding his previous criminal endeavor so you can slam dunk new charges for his new criminal endeavor once he arrives is free.

hell micon is even paying for the plane tickets.

I'm just saying this would be a huge black eye for Chesnoff's reputation if the AG did this to Micon, given that SWCpoker has been known about (and in fact very public) since February.

This would cause Chesnoff to say "fuck you" to the AG in the future when they want to make deals with his clients, and thus it won't happen.

The prosecution and high profile defense attorneys need each other, and both are harmed if that circle of trust is broken.

Also, pretty sure Chesnoff got them to promise NOT to arrest him for SWCpoker as a term for him returning. If he didn't, then he did some pretty shitty work on this one.

Again, this still leaves the piece of "What about SWCpoker?" completely missing at this moment. If its complete shutdown is a term of probation, the government can at least claim a win in that they closed a serious competitor to the NV poker sites. If SWCpoker remains open, with Micon simply claiming he "sold it" (whether true or false), then the NV government would have a huge load dripping right off of their faces.

I guess we'll see what happens here.

I hadnt considered the "Chesnoff would see this coming" factor, fair dinkum.

[Tom]

Ill just leave this here....

As owner of swcpoker.com I am able to monitor all visitors IP addresses.

What I have learned is the amount of players (percentage) that visit from the USA, down to the state.

I imagine it is extremely similar to swcpoker.eu

I will only say this, without the USA there is NO swcpoker in my opinion.

[Dan Druff]

Ill just leave this here....

As owner of swcpoker.com I am able to monitor all visitors IP addresses.

What I have learned is the amount of players (percentage) that visit from the USA, down to the state.

I imagine it is extremely similar to swcpoker.eu

I will only say this, without the USA there is NO swcpoker in my opinion.

Useful info for sure.

And I agree.

There isn't much point to hassle with bitcoin gambling if you can do it for real money. I suppose the fast/easy cashouts can be a plus, but the downside is that the site doesn't have much traffic, plus you have to deal with the bitcoin-to-cash exchange, which isn't trivial, especially if you're not a bitcoin fanatic.

Some US players like SWCpoker (and the former Seals) because they can get quick cashouts. Bovada is actually very quick with cashouts, too, but that isn't widely known. Merge and the others suck.

But anyway, anything short of a complete SWCpoker shutdown as part of a plea bargain would be a huge fail on the part of the Nevada government.

[TheXFactor]

If he's coming back now, he's probably got a deal for probation or very little jail time.

He has until mid-August to stay in Antigua, so he doesn't have to bail so quickly if he's not happy with the deal being offered.

I am most interested to see the terms of the probation.

Will it involve shutting down SWCpoker?

Will it involve staying away from all casinos?

Will it involve a promise to not work for or own any online poker site?

How big will the fine be?

Pretty sure that Chesnoff attacked the case using the following:

1) Servers for Seals were not run from Nevada
2) Micon had no access to the money flowing in and out of Seals (if hdev from earlier in this thread is to be believed)
3) Micon was a paid promoter who masqueraded as owner in order to give customers more confidence in the product
4) Bitcoin, not money, was being gambled

So then the burden of proof is on the government to prove that Micon really owned it, and they may lack that, even though they might have stuff on his computer which would indicate the was much more involved than just a promoter.

I think the government's case might have its biggest weakness in that Micon had no access to the server running it and had no access to the money/bitcoin.

While abrown has pointed out that the statute makes it a crime to materially participate in running an illegal gambling site, the case becomes much weaker if they can't prosecute Micon as an owner.

So perhaps Laxalt realized that a jury might not want to convict Micon, when his defense team could prove that he had no access to the servers or the bitcoin flowing in and out. Also, a jury may be less likely to convict Micon for providing means to gamble bitcoin than they would if he was running a real money gambling site.

I also don't believe they will re-arrest Micon for SWCpoker when he gets here, or pull some dirty trick like that. High profile attorneys have a professional relationship with prosecutors, to where they basically treat each other with respect, even as adversaries. This is because they frequently have to deal with one another and negotiate, and it becomes impossible to negotiate with someone who pulls dirty tricks on you. So basically they handle matters with each other as straight shooters. It's not like what you see on TV, where the prosecution or defense presents a shocking piece of evidence or surprise witness and completely blindsides the other in court. If they were going to re-arrest Micon for SWCpoker the second he gets to Nevada, Chesnoff would be told about this in advance.

The attorneys for the State of Nevada don't want to take this case to trial.
Micon will plead guilty to one count of running an unlicensed gambling business.
He will do anywhere from a few months to a year in prison and have several years of probation.



Do you think that his probation officer will let Micon sit at home on his ass with no job and smoke pot all day with his friends?
Do you think that his probation officer will let Micon play poker tournaments or cash games in Las Vegas?

Micon may find out that being on probation for several years is worse than prison.

[sonatine]

i dont see micon doing any time whatsoever, at least not intentionally.

hes raising his girl, martha needs him too. i can pretty much guarantee that he would rather pack up and move to someplace with no extradition than do more than a few weeks in a halfway house.

no other scenario is even remotely realistic in terms of his flying back to the states to sign off with.

[Tom]

"But anyway, anything short of a complete SWCpoker shutdown as part of a plea bargain would be a huge fail on the part of the Nevada government."


I agree, essentially they would only be slapping him on the wrist for what he did in the US so he can turn around and continue to do the exact same thing but from a safe place.

I just do not know if it is realistic to believe they can control his actions once he pays his price and leaves the country however.

How would that be written up?

I suppose the only way to deter US citizens or at least those in NV is to start targeting them specifically which is not realistic either since stopping a XXX+ people in NV from playing on swcpoker with no cooperation country/state wide is a waste of time.

On a side note it is fun to see when Bryan cannot help himself and checks in on the dot com lol

[Dan Druff]

But anyway, anything short of a complete SWCpoker shutdown as part of a plea bargain would be a huge fail on the part of the Nevada government.

I agree, essentially they would only be slapping him on the wrist for what he did in the US so he can turn around and continue to do the exact same thing but from a safe place.

I just do not know if it is realistic to believe they can control his actions once he pays his price and leaves the country however.

How would that be written up?

I suppose the only way to deter US citizens or at least those in NV is to start targeting them specifically which is not realistic either since stopping a XXX+ people in NV from playing on swcpoker with no cooperation country/state wide is a waste of time.

On a side note it is fun to see when Bryan cannot help himself and checks in on the dot com lol

So you're seeing an Antigua IP coming in?

I have looked at this thread and scanned for Antigua IPs but haven't seen any. So I assumed he is likely reading this through TOR or something else like that.

[Tom]

YES!

At one point he or "they" were monitoring my use once or twice a week. I do not think he cared much that I could see that or perhaps did not realize I could.

I agree, essentially they would only be slapping him on the wrist for what he did in the US so he can turn around and continue to do the exact same thing but from a safe place.

I just do not know if it is realistic to believe they can control his actions once he pays his price and leaves the country however.

How would that be written up?

I suppose the only way to deter US citizens or at least those in NV is to start targeting them specifically which is not realistic either since stopping a XXX+ people in NV from playing on swcpoker with no cooperation country/state wide is a waste of time.

On a side note it is fun to see when Bryan cannot help himself and checks in on the dot com lol

So you're seeing an Antigua IP coming in?

I have looked at this thread and scanned for Antigua IPs but haven't seen any. So I assumed he is likely reading this through TOR or something else like that.

[Sanlmar]

i dont see micon doing any time whatsoever, at least not intentionally.

hes raising his girl, martha needs him too. i can pretty much guarantee that he would rather pack up and move to someplace with no extradition than do more than a few weeks in a halfway house.

no other scenario is even remotely realistic in terms of his flying back to the states to sign off with.

So what happened to the bad feeling?

Sudden appearance of warmth & family values. Is this a low T issue?

The state has a case & Micon has an argument. He is not & has not backed down from offering unlicensed gambling to Nevada residents.

Nevada is welcoming their opponent to come back for a fair (lol) game. They ain't afraid of a confrontation. Why are you?

Engage Maverick.

[sonatine]

"at least not intentionally"

[tyde]

I haven't been following the saga of Bryan Micon the international fugitive very closely in this thread

I know the basics...

but can someone post some quick cliffs with recent developments ?

TIA

[limitles]

i dont see micon doing any time whatsoever, at least not intentionally.

hes raising his girl, martha needs him too. i can pretty much guarantee that he would rather pack up and move to someplace with no extradition than do more than a few weeks in a halfway house.

no other scenario is even remotely realistic in terms of his flying back to the states to sign off with.

So what happened to the bad feeling?

Sudden appearance of warmth & family values. Is this a low T issue?

The state has a case & Micon has an argument. He is not & has not backed down from offering unlicensed gambling to Nevada residents.

Nevada is welcoming their opponent to come back for a fair (lol) game. They ain't afraid of a confrontation. Why are you?

Engage Maverick.

This is not a cop killer were taking about here. I really don't know but I'm guessing a plea deal accepted by both sides is binding. Any trickery could provide the defendant with a case for dismissal.

"They aren't afraid of a confrontation. Why are you?" What does that mean?

I await your response.

[Dan Druff]

I haven't been following the saga of Bryan Micon the international fugitive very closely in this thread

I know the basics...

but can someone post some quick cliffs with recent developments ?

TIA

Recent developments:

Micon has agreed to come back to Nevada to face the charges. Will likely be back this week.

Not clear if he is going to get any prison time, or what type of deal has been struck.

His new site, SWCpoker, is still running despite him returning to face charges for the original site.

[Baron Von Strucker]

i dont see micon doing any time whatsoever, at least not intentionally.

hes raising his girl, martha needs him too. i can pretty much guarantee that he would rather pack up and move to someplace with no extradition than do more than a few weeks in a halfway house.

no other scenario is even remotely realistic in terms of his flying back to the states to sign off with.

So what happened to the bad feeling?

Sudden appearance of warmth & family values. Is this a low T issue?

The state has a case & Micon has an argument. He is not & has not backed down from offering unlicensed gambling to Nevada residents.

Nevada is welcoming their opponent to come back for a fair (lol) game. They ain't afraid of a confrontation. Why are you?

Engage Maverick.

sanlamar you usually seem like a good guy and write some very insightful and interesting things. except for this...

sounds like you have a big woody to see the demise of Micon, YOU have 0.0 idea what will happen to him other than hopes and wishes. your analysis is well written and full of intellectual jargon. but it really is you speculating and hoping something bad will happen to Micon. Personally I hope nothing bad will happen to him or any one else on this board. I feel you must have a pretty miserable life your self to hope something bad to happen you have never met or even spoke with, especially when no one was damaged or injured and is in trouble because of a retarded law in the first place

[tyde]

Micon has agreed to come back to Nevada to face the charges. Will likely be back this week.

best decision he's made in a LONG time imo

I have a gut feeling they aren't going to drop the hammer on him and be more lenient than expected

regardless, good for him for having the balls to face the music

just can't fathom that he would actual do any real prison time considering that he's cooperating now

I'm guessing a lengthy probation with a 5 figure-ish fine